Can This Be Legal?

[TODDFATHER]

Last week at Outdoors World I met a fellow and we started talking about fishing. Years back I fished walleye but I now I"m a flyrodder only. I'm not a snob about it, but rahter, it's just what I like to do.
Once we established the proper format for cross lying about fishing experiences, out of the blue he told me of something that he does every year and assured me it was the truth. According to him, after he catches a reasonable sized perch, He blows up a balloon and attatches it to a length of mono line (10-15 ft) with a hook on the end. The hook is attached to the fish's dorsal fin area and placed back in the water. According to him this only works in shallow water. He claims the fish will return to the school it came from, and you follow the balloon to stay with the school.

Guys, I"m not kidding you! My jaw hit my chest! This really smacks of being illegal. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this before? I can't say for sure that it's illegal but if it isn't it seems like it ought to be. Deep down I wanted to go crazy on this guy but kept my composure rather than make a fool of myself. Was what he was saying something along the lines of urban legend stuff, or could he actually doing this? This guy really caught me by surprise, I"ve never heard of anyone putting a lo-jack on a fish before. This can't be right!


Toddfather

[Big Frank 25]

I have heard of this being done. Never tried it. Illegal?

[Gone Fishing]

It has certainly crossed my mind before especially on the day before a Perch tournament but have never followed through. I can't think of anything in the regs that would make it illegal but I never researched it either. It may be a clever idea but kind of cruel to the Perch that is towing the "fish here indicator" and not very ethical for the fisherman. Within a day or two, the balloon will deflate and the towline will tangle until the fish rips the hook out or is eaten by a predator. I think I'll stick to the more traditional methods.

[outsider]

I've heard of this being done with crappie.
Legal?? ethical NOT

[dugfish]

Ethical, what about the sucker minnow you put on a tip-up line?
i would have no problem doing it , i would just have to count it as my second line
at the end of the day when i was done chasing the perch around i would pull it out and take it home with the rest of the catch
no different than fishing with tip- ups
just my .02
doug

[Big Frank 25]

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10371_14724_14730-31437--,00.html



Hook and line fishing: Fish so taken must be hooked in the mouth. Fish not hooked in the mouth must be returned to the water. No more than two lines per person (including tip-ups) nor more than four hooks or lures may be used. Except: on Lake Michigan, Lake Huron, Lake Superior and the St. Marys River, those persons in the act of trolling while targeting trout/salmon may use 3 rods/lines and attach no more than six hooks total on all lines.

*All hooks attached to an artificial bait or "night crawler harness" are counted as one hook. Hooks must be baited or attached to an artificial bait. You may use any number of hooks on one line for taking smelt in recognized smelt waters. Tip-ups and similar devices used for ice fishing must show the angler's name and address. All lines must be under immediate control. Hook size regulations exist on certain streams (see Exceptions to General Regulations by County).

[hypox]

What if you didn't use a hook? What if you just threaded him with a needle like some pike spearers do? That seems like it would not be a line then.

[gregm]

Ask Boher (sp?) in the legal forum.

[jaid]

Not only would it work for locating the school of perch, it would work to locate the pike and musky too!

When the balloon disappears, a pike or musky found your perch. Whe the balloon reappears, you found the pike or musky!

[gomer]

i have heard of people doing this with walleye in canada before, but not michigan.

[The Whale]

:D a lo-jac, ......I think I just wet myself !:D :D :D
I like the idea though.....


Whale :D :D :D

[Tattoo Mike]

Originally posted by Big Frank 25

All lines must be under immediate control.

If you can watch a tip-up from your house or car (and you can) then watching a balloon from boat is acceptable. Ethical??? I've heard of way worse. If he was following them and then using a cast net or something then I would say something.

[northern_outdoorsman]

You wouldn't count this as one of your lines....it is more like a "Scout" to find the school...I don't know it sounds like a good idea for locating schools of perch but like John said the balloon will deflate and the line will cause problem for the fish...

Wonder if it will work for Ice Fishing??? LMAO:D

[Big Frank 25]

Originally posted by hypox
What if you didn't use a hook? What if you just threaded him with a needle like some pike spearers do? That seems like it would not be a line then.

:D I like that.

[Wishn I was fishn]

Since when is it legal to watch a tip up from your house or car. when usin a tipup you are supposed to be with in reasonable distance from your line. Unlles you hous is out the ice I dont concider that being reasonable. As for the perch on a balloon I dont see that being illegal, or much if at all different than using anyother fish for bait. I dont see the balloon and line being a problem to the fish afterword assuming that you grab it before you leave.

[trout]

I'll bet this came about from Jug fishing.
We have different laws and expectations in Michigan.
Would it be any worse if you targeted carp?
On a large body of water this may be the poor mans fish locator.
I'd try it.

[Hamilton Reef]

Some of this has been covered before. First, the baloon idea is not new. As kids we just picked up the baloon at the end of fishing. No different than having the dog drag his leash for a while. This was back in the days before sonar.

As far as sitting in the car or home, we do that also. I sat in a car yesterday and today watching a known violator use six (6) slammer lines while the guy I was with used two (2) lines. The violator wanders off the ice out of sight over to a bait shop and back leaving the lines slammers "unattended". The guy I was with has his lines "under watch" and "attended". The distance is not as important since there is no set distance from the ice shanty, car, or lakefront cottage. The key is attendance.

I lived a few years at St. Mary's Lake in Mason County. The drop-off was 30-feet from shore and the cottage was about 40-feet from shore. The big picture window was 8-feet from the TV ball game and warm fireplace. The CO knew all the cottage owners and we would wave to him as he sat in his car. The freezing idiots out in the cold were the dumb tourist.

[No-See-Um]

I've heard of this technique for years but never tried it. I know that some fisherman somewhere will leave his fish go off with a balloon attached and the next thing you know some heron or something will be wandering around with a balloon hanging out of it's mouth and all the antis will be clammering to ban our sport. Fish locators are the way to go, while they're still legal.

[Sailor]

I'm with splitshot all the way. I have been chasing balloons for over fifty years. The system
works for perch in shallow or deep water (In shallow water the perch will often as not become fouled in weeds). It also works well with suspended gills and crappie. The key is to use the biggest jumbo or slab as they usually separate by year class. Also use very light mono approximatly
three times the water depth. The balloon offers almost no resistance to the swimming fish (unless it's windy-then forget it). I haven't used this method much lately as I now have good electronics, but I fail to see how it is any less ethical or presents any less of a fair chase than underwater tv, sonar, gps, chum,scent etc.. In fact in my day this was considered high-tech !!!!

[Fishfoote]

It's a good idea, but unless you're sure you can retreive the balloon - you'd be littering...maybe just a piece of balsa wood? As far as watching tip ups from the truck or cottage, I don't think either are illegal or unethical. Out on Hubbard Lake two weeks ago truck fisherman out numbered shanty fishermen 4 to 1 where I was at...in my truck! I've also watched tipups from the cottage. I'm close enough to be on the tip up in under 60 seconds by snowmobile which is as fast as plenty of people I've seen who are sitting in shanties.

[gunrod]

We did something similar on Airport Bay this year. We would catch a keeper perch and put it on a live bait rig (no hook). 2 or 3 or these in a spearing hole would create your own school. The perch would then come in more frequently and in groups of 3 or 4 rather than singles every so often.

You can decoy pike so why not panfish. I'm in favor of the balloon trick. Just pick up your fish and balloon when done. I wouldn't use a hook to attach the fish either. If a pike or musky grabs the rig you risk killing two fish. That would seem unethical. Other than that, I'm all for it.

[Shoeman]

Originally posted by Splitshot
Well I guess I am an unethical, un-sportsman like piece of trash.

I appologise to all the ethical, moral and self righteous sportsmen and women oh yeah and kids. Sorry guys!!

You should be ashamed. Scumbag....

That's real close to "pitchforking" steelhead.... LOL

[Big Frank 25]

"Pitchfork" Is that like going barbless?:p

[trout]

Doesn't work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I just got in,


I tried the balloon and it was tough to find thru the ice.

[boehr]

Interesting but I really have my doubts that it really works.:)

My answer is that the act in itself would be legal however it would have to be considered a line (one of your two lines if using a hook) and you would have to follow it around and remove it when you were ready to go home (unattended line). Now as for the thought about using a needle and just tying the mono to the fish, then it would not be cabable of taking another fish so it would not be counted as a line or unattended.

Again I have my doubts if it would work. I also have concerns about the line being scattered through the waterways but I also suppose it's not like very many would be doing it, until now because the idea is posted;) I also question the ethics for myself only.

[TODDFATHER]

Thanks Boehr,


I never intended to question the ethics of it, only the legality. To be sure, I'd have bet my last dollar on it being illegal. I wonder what a DNR officer's response would be if he came across that situation?


Thanks Again: Toddfather

[TODDFATHER]

Boehr's DNR officer? I didn't know that! I"m a new kid!



That's too cool to be true! You guys really got the handle on the legal department!



Toddfather

[Lost_Peninsula]

I just stumbled across this thread. I used to keep my boat at mud jaw creek before I was even old enough to drive. As kids my friends and I would walk down to our boats and during the long boring 5mph cruise through the Ottawa rive on the way to the islands (Indian, guard and consumers cut) we would fill our boats with water balloons and have water balloon fights on the way out. At 5mph no wake there was only so much maneuvering you could do. That added to the fun when it comes to water balloon fights. Then one day the DNR caught us doing this and we received an a## chewing I will never forget. The officer told us how fish and birds choke on the rubber from our balloons and how that rubber will still be in the water long after we are dead and gone. It was such a good a** chewing that neither me nor my friends have EVER put another balloon into the water. The Idea sounds good, but for the sake of the fish and birds do not use balloons!!!!

[Hamilton Reef]

L_P, you missed one point in that we pick up the balloons. They were not left behind to cause any damage to wildlife. Balloon fights are fun, but do leave remains behind which is a form of littering. The COs know the difference.

[Spanky]

best thing would be to remove the hook from the mouth, hook it in the tail or back or wherever it would stay in without getting tangled and just let it go back with line bobber and original fishing line, or clip a cheap little bobber on the line open the bail let it go for a few minutes, relocate yourself to where the fish goes, reel him back in, into the bucket he goes, then your there. we've done THAT for many years, they almost always seem to go right back to where you caught them. I didn't realize that so many guys couldn't remember where they casted to the first time!:p :p :p