Crossbow Alert!!

[bishs]

Hello, hunters we need your help! I am Scott Bishop and I am one of the reps for MTB on the Cross Bow Commmittee. Reps were there representing the sporting clubs of Michigan.

The vote went as followed

14 against xbows
7 undecided
6 against

Even though we won the numbers. They told us; WE WILL BE HAVING A CROSSBOW SEASON! The group is meeting again on March 6 to cast our vote for the dates. We are told we have no choice, so pick your date. They said they will keep it out of early bow season for now.

Its time to take a stand! There will be an NRC meeting following the crossbow meeting. We need hunters to show up in big numbers and send a message. We can't just roll over and play dead! This decision for a crossbow season was predetermined no matter the vote. Even if we can keep it in gun season, it will slip into bow season, like it did in Ohio.

I am making flyers, to inform hunters to attend. Please send me your e-mail adress so I can send you a copy. Please make copies of these and hang them up where they can be seen. Help get the word out.

Let them know that the "army" of bowhunters in this state do care!

If this gets into our bow season, slide over and make room for all the people who will not take the time to shoot a bow. But will pick up a xbow with an 8 power scope and pick off deer up to 50 yards. Ohio takes more deer with the crossbows than bows.

E-mail me at bishs@email.com
Thanks Scott Bishop

[woodencanoe]

Send me a copy Scott I'll put some around the shop, nobody in there want's to have to wear orange during bow season because people want to use crossguns during bow season. I think you have my e-mail, Thanks Scott.
woodencanoe.

[Bobhobly]

What,s all the fuss over crossbows?They are viable weapon and have a long history.They also give people who could not enjoy bow hunting the ability to still do it..Older people who have bowhunted in the past and are unble to do it now can still enjoy the flight of an arrow.

[bishs]

It's called bow season for a reason, and its 3 months long for a reason. It's all about challenge. To be succesfull as an archer you need a considerable amount of practice and persistance. It takes most archers several years to be successfull. This "challenge" is why we enjoy a 3 month season. Todays society wants the quickest and easiest path. How easy does deer hunting have to be!!!

[I totaly agree. I sometimes wonder if mbh didnt help shoot us in the foot by helping pass crossgun legislation even if it was done for handicap people. I think it is taken advantage of and probably just let the crossguns in sooner. to bad there are so many people looking for the esiest way out there to deer hunt. look out for poaching big bucks if it is aproved. I've seen it done while huning in Ohio.

[icewolf]

bishs e-mail me a copy. at work we have more
bow hunters than gun hunters an well give
them out. my bow is doing just fine.!!!

Scott, I am not a member of MTB, but I am very very concerned about the crossbow issue. Even though we are apparently going to be stuck with crossbows during the firearms season, I am afraid that if an inch is given, eventually a mile is going to be taken. Send me the stuff you have. I'll post it at work. Tons of bowhunters there that need to know how serious this issue is and what it could potentially mean to bowhunting in MI. Chuck Send to Ibow@aol.com

[Steve]

The information is on our front page for those who are interested.

[mitradbow]

The printer-friendly, ready-to-post Crossbow Alert flyer can now be printed off the MTB website.
http://www.mitraditionalbow.com/crossbow_alert.html

It appears that we have a long battle ahead of us to keep crossbows out of Michigan.

Christi

[Rich M]

Hmm...seems to me it could be argued the modern high tech bows give unfair advantage too. Lighted scopes, mechanical releases, flat flying carbon arrows, huge stabilizers, high let off on high pound bows, etc. I've tried one and I hit the bullseye every shot with no practice what so ever. That's why I shoot a long bow, it forces me to practice and strive to improve. My acknowledgement of my limitations keeps it sporting.

However - to each his own! I don't look down on a high techy sitting in a tree stand hunting over a bait pile, nor do I look down on gun hunters. Divide and conquer is a strategy the anti's are using against ALL hunters! If cross bows are used it won't ruin the season, any more than any of the other forms of hunting. My favorite time to hunt is late bow season. Even after the onslaught of gun hunters (which is far more hunters than any crossbow season will see) who have the biggest advantage, I still see plenty of deer. Go figure.

Trying to ban any type of hunting plays right into the anti's hands. Remember, your form of hunting could be next. We as sportsmen are all brothers in arms. Lets try to help one another rather than fight amongst ourselves.

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Rich M

you make some good points. but I dont beleve that more is better.not all hunters are helping oup sport no matter what they hunt with. some do more dammage than good. I am mostly concerened about losing the amount of time I get to spend hunting with my bow. How would you feel If you wre limited to a fraction of the time to hunt as you have know I dont want to risk it. we already have enough choices on the way we can hunt deer now. QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich M:
Hmm...seems to me it could be argued the modern high tech bows give unfair advantage too. Lighted scopes, mechanical releases, flat flying carbon arrows, huge stabilizers, high let off on high pound bows, etc. I've tried one and I hit the bullseye every shot with no practice what so ever. That's why I shoot a long bow, it forces me to practice and strive to improve. My acknowledgement of my limitations keeps it sporting.

However - to each his own! I don't look down on a high techy sitting in a tree stand hunting over a bait pile, nor do I look down on gun hunters. Divide and conquer is a strategy the anti's are using against ALL hunters! If cross bows are used it won't ruin the season, any more than any of the other forms of hunting. My favorite time to hunt is late bow season. Even after the onslaught of gun hunters (which is far more hunters than any crossbow season will see) who have the biggest advantage, I still see plenty of deer. Go figure.

Trying to ban any type of hunting plays right into the anti's hands. Remember, your form of hunting could be next. We as sportsmen are all brothers in arms. Lets try to help one another rather than fight amongst ourselves.

[/QUOTE]

[Coldwater Charters]

Great post Rich M. My feelings exactly!!!!

[Trek]

Thanks for calling those who are trying to preserve a tradition anti-hunters. You should run for politial office Rich. M. because it runs out of both sides of your mouth. I don't beleive for a minute you shoot any kink of bow let alone a longbow. Thank God some are willing to stand up in order to protect and defend bowhunting, and not follow the profit driven market sluts that want to ruin the season we love. Everytime someone is loosing this arguement they call the opposition an anti-hunter.
This is the lowest form of divide and concure and I won't visit this sight any longer as long as that mentality is supported by those who advertise like coldwater chartes etc who are nothing more than pimps for the industry.

[This message has been edited by Trek (edited 02-13-2001).]

[bishs]

Rich M, you have the typical "Big Tent" attitude. Any weapon any time. Why do you think we get to enjoy a 3 month bow season? Why do you think you get to bowhunt the late season? It is because bowhunting is a challenge! Because it is difficult to achieve, this "challenge" allows us to enjoy a long season with many hour outdoors instead of glaring at the television.

The expirience is all about the "chase" the kill is just a bonus. The skill that is required to match wits with a whitetail buck is what stirs deep in many archer's heart, he resects the game he chases, and views taking an animal as a gift.

The "use any weapon logic" would be the doom of our lengthy season as we know it. If we were allowed any weapon we would probably only get a 3 week season. Deer would be in (gun season mode). Forget patterning natural deer movements and studying habits). Luck would become the biggest kill factor.

I wish we could put a "cap" on the amount of technology we are allowed to bowhunt with. It is my fear that man's technolgy may surpass what is thought of as fair chase. In a society that favors the easier the better that is a real threat.

[Rich M]

Hey Trek -

I've been shooting a long bow most of my life. I hunt deer, small game and birds with it and am sucessful. I spend many hours in the woods stump shooting to refine my skill. I use custom made double taper cedar arrows. I am a traditionalist - I don't use a compound with all the gadgets, I don't use a high powered rifle - but I certainly could. But you see, I don't measure my sucess by kills, if I did I wouldn't be a traditional bow hunter.

Nor did I ever call any of us "anti's"! I don't know how you got that from my post!?! If you re-read it with an OPEN MIND you would see that I actually refered to us as "brothers in arm's who should help one another instead of fighting amongst ourselves"! I guess you missed that part because your sure putting up a fight - and for what - to restrict someone else's (handicapped, elederly, disabled) ability to hunt. Actually your paranoid assumption that you are the anti came from your keystroke - but if the shoe fits well hey. Just remember how diligently you fought AGAINST crossbows when they come after our sport claiming inhumane kills etc. I bet you hear alot of the same retoric that you yourself used (except maybe the part about pimps and sluts).

And as for cross bows ruining our season - what about gun season!?!?! Has the season with the most hunters, the best time frame, and the biggest advantages "ruined" your chances for bow hunting? It hasn't for me, but I hunt the old fashoined way - from the ground with no bait and a lot of pre and post season scouting.

But like I said before to each his own. If you want to rally against a paticular form of hunting go right ahead. Just remeber your actions when they come after YOUR form of hunting. Peace be with you.



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Rich M

[Coldwater Charters]

Hey Trek I don't think I have been called a pimp That's good :). First of all these are just my oppinions, I do not have all power and can't turn my oppinions to Law. Second if the Cross bow law comes into affect you will not be forced to use it, as far as I know you will still have the choice over which form of Archery equipment you use. As far as archery hunting in michigan being a challenge my biggest challenge is putting up my tree stand with out breaking my neck. If I hunt 5 times during archery season, I will have the oppertunity to take a deer during those 5 times at least 3 times on the average where I hunt. Hey guys I'm just on the opposite side here, we are not at war but a diference in oppinion. I completely understand about traditions too. I belief this, if you are a real hunter and put in the time and gain the edge you will reap the rewards. If your not willing you could put an AK-47 in your hands and you will still not be successful consistantly. If the cross bow Law does come into affect you will not see me in the woods with one anytime soon I don't believe that they are a bigger edge then a Compound bow. I personally like to feel the power of the draw. Just an oppinion of a humble but modest Sportman. Hey Trek I hope you come back and visit the site it seems like a great site where people can voice there oppinions on stuff. Don't take your ball and go home.

[Rich M]

Applause. Well said Coldwater Charters!

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Rich M

[bishs]

I hope I didn't offend anyone. This is an emotional topic that draws emotional responses. There are 23 of us on the crossbow committee and we are under a fair amount of stress. We were given an ultimatum, pick a season or we will pick it for you. At least for now they said it would not fall in bow season.

We had a DNR Biologist speaking, he warned that they need to keep xbows out of the 2 week period prior to gun season. He said the crossbows ease of use and range would greatly affect the pre breeding period. He stated bowhunters are already taking many deer during this period.

Consider the following: I seen 14 bucks last year, I had at least 10 deer under 40 yards. I was unable to get a clean shot oppurtunity in range. If I was using a crossbow, I would of had good shots at 10 bucks!

Crossbows are drawed back locked and ready to go. They can be shot off a steady rest. You simply "track" the deer in your scope and then squeeze the trigger, just like a rifle.

How many more deer would be taken if they were allowed in Bow season? With no crossbow expirience I can pick up a scoped crossbow and hold under a 2 inch group at 20 yards. With no prior practice. A beginner can hold 8 inch groups at 60 yards. Show me an experienced archer who can do that.

Don't take my word for it, go to an archery company that sells them and try one out.

Crossbows very commonly shoot 300 fps, that along with a very short (light) bolt, gives them a very flat trajectory, much, much greater than a bow.

If you want to see the balistics go to the PBS (proffesional Bowhunters website) and look at the Marlow Report, it is a 2 year study by an engineer on the dynamics and performance of crossbows compared to bows.

We had several videos to watch at the committee. One put on by PBS and one from the Crossbow folks.

The crossbow folks had a story about a lady who just had taken a deer with an xbow. The DNR were checking her story, to make sure her husband didn't shoot the deer. She demonstarted her ability by giving the officer a shooting demonstration along side of the road. The officer told us she shot under a 4 inch group at 40 yards!

If these things are cut loose during bow season we are in trouble, it will most definetly lead to shorter seasons. Michigan has an army of hunters. If 25% of the rifle hunters decide to get an xbow and come into the bow season, my friend we are in trouble.
Today Ohio takes more deer with the crossbow than regular bows.

Those of us on the committee are facing tough decisions. Its like being asked what limb do you want shot off?

[This message has been edited by bishs (edited 02-13-2001).]

[bishs]

I will tell you how they voted:

Against Crossbow Use in archery season:
Michigan Bowhunters
Michigan Traditional Bowhunters
Michigan Longbow assoc.
Pope and Young
PBS (Proffessional Bowhunters society)
Whitetails Forever
MUCC
MSC (Michigan Sportsman coalition)
Ted Nugent aginst in the early archery season
Safari Hunt Club
2 citizens at large
1 more I didn't record
14 total

Undecide on crossbow use in bow season
CBM
NRA
Michigan Bear Hunters
Outdoor radio
whitetails unlimited
shooting club
one more not recorded
7 total

Those folks for crossbow use in bowseason:
A handicapped hunter
Alex (Rep for a crossbow manufacturer)
QDM
citizen at large
2 more I did not record
6 total
Note" every group present approved crossbow use for individuals who were handicapped, based on a doctors decision, and people who that are under a handicap social security status.

[This message has been edited by bishs (edited 02-13-2001).]

Everyone that has voiced an OPINION must love and care very much about the upcoming bowhunting season. I may side with one person, rather than the other, but that doesn't mean that I am right or wrong. The way I see things is that the handicapped hunters of this state already have the advantage of using a crossbow. If crossbows are eventually going to become legal for every hunter to use in this state, what advantage will the handicapped hunters have. I grew up in a traditonal bowhunting family, and have been around traditional equipment, and traditional hunters all of my life. I will defend it until the bitter end. What I am mostly concerned about, is the next generation. The people that are making the decisions on crossbows are making a decision for tomarrow's hunters, the youth of today, the next generation. That is where I come in. Will bowhunting twenty years from now be called crossbow-hunting? Will children even know what recurves and long bows are? I am not saying this is what it will turn into, but what I am saying is that that is not what I want. It is my responsible, as well as other traditional bowhunters to keep the tradition alive. Traditional bowhunting means passing on the tradition, passing it on to the next generation. Passing on the callenge, the love, the chase, the appreciation and admiration of other traditional hunters, as well as the wildlife. Do the hunters of today want increased poaching? Do we want over harvested deer? Do we want shorter seasons? I don't think so. We want to keep the challenge, the chase, the seasons, and the tradition alive. We just want to love it. I am not trying to offend anyone here, and I am not looking for a debate. I just wanted to give my opinion about the future hunters in the state of Michigan. May peace be with all of you. Thank you!

[jbaugher]

Simple Question- If you can not make it on the 7th, is there any other way in which I can voice my opinion against crossbows? Emails or Letters? Thanks!

[skinne]

i think crossbow can be good in the right case my father is disabled and grandfather is 84 and both enjoy hunting and if not for crossbows the would be left out of some of the best hunting of the year. i think that crossbows should be limited to the disabled only and wish you luck in your quest i just hope that it dosent take away from others who are less fortunate and not able to hunt with traditionalbows.

[Banditto]

I am just trying to understand something here. What all the stink is about is that some hunters don't want disabled people to get a shot at taking a deer in a seperate season? Because the non-disabled hunter own those deer and that is their property right? That is what your saying, right?