Michigan turkey Tracks

[Jim Maturen]

The September 2009 issue of Michigan Turkey Tracks is now on the Michigan Wild Turkey Hunters website at www.mwtha.net (http://www.mwtha.net). Check out what's happening in the turkey world.

[steveh27]

Jim,

Thanks for your post. This was the first time I saw your web site. Very nice. Enjoyed reading the history & the story of dropping out of MUCC. My fishing club wanted to drop out but as we needed state raffle licenses & they apparently are now only available through MUCC we had to stay. Our cost went from $150 to around $400. They haven't communicated to us any change in their policy.

I've been turkey hunting in MI since the late 70's in Alcona county. Didn't get my first until 1988. Now I hunt in Hillsdale county.

Steve

[Jim Maturen]

Hi Steve

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it. By the way MUCC hasn't contacted us yet either. Turkey hunting is the sport of kings - eh? Been chasing spring gobblers in Michigan for the past 41 years and still look forward to the upcoming spring season.

Jim

[Gobblerman]

Got mine in the mail last week. I agree with Steve about the MUCC article.

For all those turkey hunters out there if your not a member you should be. The work Jim and the rest of the MWTHA do is critical to the success of the Michigan Turkey Flock.

[FireDoc66]

Sorry Gobblerman, as for myself being one of the folks who "their brain is located somewhere in the rear of their anatomy" evidently, tied in with the fact that some of the comments from their more heralded members border on Anti-Hunter (RE: Archery equipment, etc.) I will never send money in any form that way.

But I would hope that in order to utilize this website to promote theirs, at least some folks could become Supporting Members at a minimum. Seems like a fair trade off. :)

Good luck this Fall season regardless.....

[CMRM]

Sorry Gobblerman, as for myself being one of the folks who "their brain is located somewhere in the rear of their anatomy" evidently, tied in with the fact that some of the comments from their more heralded members border on Anti-Hunter (RE: Archery equipment, etc.) I will never send money in any form that way.

But I would hope that in order to utilize this website to promote theirs, at least some folks could become Supporting Members at a minimum. Seems like a fair trade off. :)

Good luck this Fall season regardless.....


You just inspired me to send an extra $10 thier way in your honor.

[Gobblerman]

Hey FireDoc66,

I think we all need to support the local clubs that you believe in. Personally I think they have done some good work keeping the money in Michigan to help improve the turkey hunting.

Good luck to you as well this fall.

[michhutr]

Jim,
I've read the newsletter and appreciate the MWTHA and their committment to the wild turkey. I also appreciate the efforts of you and others in the MWTHA to improve the game populations and habitat on state lands. Keep up the good work

As for me and our guys our financial support will continue.
db

[FireDoc66]

You just inspired me to send an extra $10 thier way in your honor.

Don't be a cheapskate, Send 'em $20! :lol:

[Linda G.]

Firedoc is referring to me and some remarks I made this spring about my personal concerns regarding the behavior of some archery hunters, particularly those who are not, shall we say...very good shots or who don't think before they fire. Remember he's talking about the same person who just came back from a weekend of dove hunting in Ohio because the hunters of Michigan wouldn't support our efforts to bring a dove season here. And he thinks I'm anti-hunting...LOL

Ya, I'm a real anti-hunter, Firedoc...screaming PETA all the way to the grill as I enjoy those doves I shot this weekend.

It's pretty small of you to hold an entire organization of more than 5000 members accountable for the beliefs of ONE member...especially when your perception of that member is so far off-base it's hysterical.

go for it, you're just waiting for me anyway. I'm gone. But take a moment to check out our new website, which our new webmaster has done a masterful job on...my son created the original many years ago, it was great but we were long overdue for a re-design, and it's very nice.

[FireDoc66]

Actually I typed border, as in borderline. And in my opinion, small or not, it is borderline. :rolleyes:

And it may be small, I dislike the Democratic party right now for only two of their members; Pelosi and our President. :lol:

But although I didn't call you Anti-Hunter above, after this;


go for it, you're just waiting for me anyway. I'm gone.


I am thinking of throwing the "Drama Queen" title out there!

On a positive note though, if this thread garners you guys an extra $10 from all your outraged members you'll have $50,000 extra dollars to thank me for! Good luck! :)

[MOODMagazine]

Jim,

You haven't heard from MUCC? Did you not get any of the five mailers? Someone from MUCC contacted the contacts on the MWTHA roster three times -- but I'm not sure who they talked with. I also believe that Dennis Muchmore contacted you about the changes, at least that's the information that was shared with me.

In fact, every single club that has provided MUCC with accurate contact information received a number of mailings, informaitonal packets and phone calls. If there is a club that has not, please let me know and we'll make sure it happens.

[steveh27]

MOOD,

You need to read more carefully before replying. The no communication is about the recent addition of state club memberships for $250, not about the forcing of clubs to enroll all members. It's a shame that MUCC did not solicit all of the clubs input for options to solve your financial problems. Many clubs do not like the changes that have forced the previous partial member clubs to pay up to 300% more this year.

Wish MUCC well financially, but they need to learn to build consensus before forcing this on us.

Steve

[MOODMagazine]

Steve,

I guess I don't follow the logic. How does reducing club member dues 300 percent solve any financial problems for MUCC? Dues were $15 or $18. They are now $5. The Board did not make its decision based on MUCC's financial status. It was a decision made to help struggling clubs afford affiliation and they determined that if a club wants to be part of the organization that works on their behalf, they should be 100% affiliates, especially given the 300 percent reduction in dues. At some point, everyone just has to make decisions. Is protecting Michigan's right to hunt, fish and trap worth $5? That's not a decision I can make for anyone and it's up to each club to decide if that's what they want to do. Obviously, for some groups it's more difficult and I certainly understand that. There is no forcing. Clubs and members join MUCC -- and DU, QDMA, NWTF, etc -- because they want to be part of a solution, they want to protect what they enjoy. No one is forced to do anything. It's either worth $5 to someone or it's not.

But you're right, I misread Jim's statement. There have, however, been a number of correspondences with all clubs that have been willing to provide contact information to us. And I believe Jim was also contacted earlier this week about the statewide affiliation options -- those options were just recently finalized.

[steveh27]

MOOD you still refuse to correct your math errors nor acknowledge the huge fee increases this increase has been on the non-100% clubs.

First the math. The decrease in an individual fee from $15 (or $18) to $5 is not a 300% decrease. The decrease over the original cost (10/15) = .67 or 67%. MUCC needs to have someone with basic math instruct them & you.

Second the fee is not a low $5 for clubs. Many clubs do not charge their members for the MUCC fee. Using my club as an example we went from paying $180 to now paying $405. Basic math again: the increase over the original is 225/180 = 1.25 or 125%. That's how much our fee went up. We have never attended any MUCC conventions nor voted nor wanted anything. We 'donated' our fee to try & help MUCC fight those causing problems for sportspeople including the DNR when they make errors. Now, we do use the charitable gaming program of 1 year as the State HAS FORCED us. We pay MUCC for this separately. You refuse to think of this large increase on the clubs. Stop your incorrect touting of it as a small $5. It is not. That's why some clubs are leaving.

AGain, all of your clubs should have been given the option of giving input before any decision was taken on this change. We would have been happy to stay non-100% with an increased donation of 30-40%, not 125%. I have to bet the board is only made up of reps from 100% clubs. Refusing to acknowledge reality & the differing input of others is not a way to improve.

MOOD, these things have been explained to you in the past & yet you refuse to acknowledge them. Not good.

Jim. sorry your original post got hijacked. I did not intend to do that, but did have to correct MOOD again.

[Linda G.]

I don't think Jim would mind. MUCC's fee increase was one of the primary reasons MWTHA left that organization, but not the only one. There were a number of other reasons. It's a shame, but the sad fact of the matter is that the organization isn't anything close to what it once was.

[MOODMagazine]

Original dues: $15 for 100%, $18 for non-100%. New dues $5.
That's a huge decrease no matter what percentage you choose -- and you're right, I was off on the percentage. I apologize for that, I didn't do it intentionally. All clubs must now be 100% affiliates and those clubs that have been and have chosen to be 100% have a very different opinion on what exactly is fair. Some clubs have made the decision to support MUCC and fight for our outdoor heritage. Those clubs have seen a substantial reduction in dues.

So your club's dues increased about $200 -- in return you enjoy a ton of benefits from an organization that fights every day for your rights to hunt, fish and trap. That is an absolute bargain. There is no other organization that provides the type of services and representation that MUCC does for a price anywhere close to that. But, as I said, it's a choice you can make. If you have an issue that you'd like to be represented on there are other options. You can certainly hire a lobbyist or something like that. You could get about 45 minutes of representation for that fee.

All clubs WERE given the chance to voice their opinion. The decision was made by the Board of Directors -- not MUCC staff. The Board is your representative and they are the ones that decided the MUCC dues should be reduced. To be part of the decision-making process, you simply need to participate in the region, district and Board activities.

No one is forcing you to do charitable gaming either. The regulations you must follow to do so are state laws. Sorry, MUCC has nothing to do with those state laws. There are a pain for us as well to be honest. What we do provide, however, is way for clubs to obtain a gaming license legally. That program comes with a fairly considerable cost to MUCC by the way but that's just another service we offer to the clubs for the rate of $5 per person.

I guess maybe we'll always disagree. I think $5 per person is an incredibly small price to pay for an organization such as MUCC. But those clubs that don't agree are free to move on. Some have. Many more have stayed and we've seen not only in an increase in membership but also an increase in the number of new clubs. The statewide affiliation option is one that MWTHA may qualify for and may fit that organization better. I believe that MWTHA is looking into doing just that. That's what it was designed for.

It's nice to see Linda chime in on something, again, she has zero knowledge of. Always good of her to reinforce her lack of diligence. Again, for the record, Linda Gallagher has had zero communications or contact with MUCC for many years. So she is not qaulified to speak to what MUCC is or what it does -- because she's not basing any of her statements on any facts whatsoever. I am more than happy to talk about what MUCC is doing, decisions it's made, etc. But I'm only going to provide the facts as I know them.

[multibeard]

It's a shame, but the sad fact of the matter is that the organization isn't anything close to what it once was.

I have to agree with this statement of Linda's. In my mind I feel that MUCC took a down hill slide when Tom Washington passed away. Under Toms leadership MUCC went tooth and nail with the DNR on many issues.

After Toms passing I feel that MUCC became a mouth piece for the DNR agreeing with anything that they wanted to do. GOOD or BAD.

I guess I do not know what I am talking about either since I dropped my MUCC membership with in a year of Tom Washington's passing because I did not like the course the club was taking.

[Linda G.]

You would think that one of the new head honchos of MUCC would understand a bit more about diplomacy...apparently not.

For the record, I haven't been a member of MUCC for the past two years...horribly long time, right, Tony? LOL

I wanted out several years before that, but through a couple of different groups I belong to, my membership kept getting accidentally renewed....LOL

If you're such an expert on MUCC, Tony, that should include a knowledge of what it WAS like, oh, back when you were still in diapers. Tom Washington's days...Rick Jamieson's days...god rest their souls.

Do you even know who they were?

You started it, Tony....now, remember your high position before you open your mouth and stick your foot in again...LOL

[steveh27]

Linda,

I highly respect your opinion. My opinion of MOOD has dropped with his attacks & refusal to even think there's a possibility MUCC has made a mistake w the dropping of non-100% clubs. Of course their member #'s will grow due to clubs like mine being forced by the State to join them for raffle licenses and now being forced by them to be 100%. We were considering making a donation to their Camp for Kids, but that money just went into their membership dues increase. Sad.

Linda, keep on posting the truth.

Steve

[Linda G.]

Are you SURE that you have to go through MUCC to get a raffle license? What about all the church groups, chambers of commerce, Lions, Rotary, etc...??
They all get raffle licenses, and I'll bet it's not through MUCC.

And I know of at least THREE outdoor organizations that get a raffle license every year...that aren't even affiliates, and never have been, of MUCC.

I used to fill out the raffle app form for our local conservation club, and it never needed anything except the name and address of the president of the group. Now, that was several years ago, that may well have changed...but I still find it hard to believe that the ONLY way for your club to get a raffle license is through MUCC...btw, the groups I know of pay $50 annually for that license.

PM me if you want any more info, I'll be happy to check with them as to this year's requirements...

[MOODMagazine]

Attacks? I'm not making any attacks at all. I'm simply refuting what Linda is stating. She chose to butt in on a topic that didn't involve her and, per her usual tactics, sling mud and misinformation. The facts are Linda doesn't like me because I chose not to run a story she had written because it simply wasn't very good. I have higher standards for content than she's used to and she didn't make the cut. She's made every attempt to discredit me and MUCC ever since. I have an obligation to MUCC to make sure that information that comes out is accurate and fact-based. So whenever Linda -- or anyone else -- start spewing false information, I have to step in.

Yes, I'm part of the new leadership at MUCC and damn proud of that. I knew Tom Washington. I did a number of interviews with Rick Jameson and had some very cool meetings with him where he did a little mentoring with me.

Yep. I'm a young guy. So if your best ammo is that I'm not old, well, guess you got me there. But that's pretty much PRECISELY the point. I'm not old. I do know how to communicate with today's generations and what they need. I'm able to do things that will help spread the message of the outdoors to the generations that will matter very soon. They are our future leaders, legislators and decision-makers. Who could possibly think youth is a detriment? Ask around to the very top companies and organizations in the country and see what they think of your "you can't have young people do this" attitude. I would so very much love to hear their response to that wisdom.

I'm fine with diplomacy and respect. I give it in return. Linda, you ain't earned it from me. Your track record has proven that you have no interest whatsoever in facts, in civility or in helping to make Michigan's outdoors future stronger. Instead, you and a few others choose to focus on decisions made decades ago.

The past is the past. Get over it. I had nothing to do with the decisions made after Tom Washington and Rick Jameson died. The only thing I care about is what MUCC is now and where it's headed. And I am 100 percent satisfied that we are on the right path.

I won't sit back and let someone bash on the people that work for our rights. I don't see too many others stepping up to do the job. So if you're going to come at MUCC with criticism, that's fine. But the days of us sitting back and taking it are gone. Tom Washington was revered for his methods -- and he took no crap. I think he'd probably approve.

I really don't care what my title is or what my position is because I live my life by one rule: Do the right thing. And not allowing people with personal vendettas to spread lies and mistruths is the right thing to do. So whenever I'm encountered with that situation, I'll swing back. Sorry, but that's me and that's how I'll always be. I'll listen all day to folks like Steve because he believes he has a valid point and has presented his point respectfully. But those who want to just make personal attacks on my age or spread false information about what MUCC is or is doing, well pack a lunch, because I'm not going to listen to it without responding in kind.

I've had enough of people thinking they can rip on the outdoors community and the groups that work to protect it. We've played defense long enough. A little offense is needed and that's exactly what we're trying to build at MUCC. Hunting, fishing and trapping are not just rights or hobbies. They are ways of life and we will protect them. Do I get fired up about that? Yes, I do. And I make no apologies for it.

Steve: As I've said, I understand that the dues increase doesn't work for all. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. But MUCC is a membership-based organization that works for its members. Funding is necessary. Nothing is free. Those clubs that choose to be members and enjoy the benefits of affiliation, understand that there is a fee involved. A fee that's been greatly reduced for the majority of clubs. So, no, I do not agree that clubs should be allowed to reap the benefits of MUCC affiliation and not pay their way. That's not fair to all involved.

The statewide affiliation status makes sense for some organizations -- MWTHA may be one of them. The choice to do charitable gaming is yours to make. The state requires a license. If you don't qualify for a license under the state regulations, then there's a reason for that. MUCC provides that opportunity to affiliate clubs. To be part of that program, you have to be an affiliate. It's the same for everyone.

Yes, Linda continue to post the "truth." Like when you posted on here that I wouldn't last a year at MUCC and that MUCC was doomed for death years ago.

Well, I'm still there. MUCC is still there. And we're not going anywhere. We are going to continue to fight for the rights of hunters, anglers and trappers because someone has to do it. Fortunately we have a staff of dedicated people willing to do that work. We have a Board willing to volunteer their time, money and energy. We have tens of thousands of members willing to support MUCC financially and with volunteer hours and efforts.

We are going to continue to right the wrongs of the past -- even though none of the folks currently involved had anything to do with those decisions.

We'll continue to develop new programs and ways to reach future generations of hunters, anglers and trappers. Even the ones still in diapers. Youth isn't a burden. It's hope.

[MOODMagazine]

Steve:

Do NOT take anyone's advice on raffle licenses unless they are very well schooled in Charitable Gaming laws. I do not care if you do your license through MUCC or not -- but the laws on this stuff are anything but clear and the fines anything but small.

Peggy Parke at our office is somewhat of an expert on the licenses. She can tell you what the requirements are to get one. If you're not a 501(c)3 or similar, you'll find it almost impossible to get a license.

I'm not saying to call Peggy so she can convince you to stay with MUCC. I'm suggesting is because I don't want to see your club get into any issues. The $50 license is a large raffle license. The fee for a small raffle license is $25. You'll need an attestation exam. You'll need to file the financial statements. You'll need to provide verification of non-profit status and declare intent for the funds . . . it's a mess.

In all sincerity, if you want to explore getting your own licenses -- and MUCC has encouraged a number of clubs to do so -- Peggy may be able to provide some background information that would be helpful.

My local chapter of NWTF gets a license through the national chapter. I believe PF, DU do it the same way. I have been told our local chapter could get one on our own but when I checked into it, the laws had changed and the amount of paperwork was unreal.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll do the homework but I think Peggy could be a good resource to get you started.

[Linda G.]

Thank you for airing all the issues between us. I've been dying to get it out in the open for many years, but held off to give you a chance at your job, which isn't easy. I was very good friends with both Dennis Knickerbocker and Ken Lowe for many years, and know as an editor myself how tough your job can be.

But you need to talk to your own people in MUCC, my friend, if there's any left that were still there when this issue occurred...and it wasn't the only thing that made me leave MUCC...I only quit writing for the magazine after you screwed me over. I continued to be a member of MUCC for another few years, until I had a major issue with Sam Washington himself...and his policy. Absolutely nothing has changed since then that would make me want to sign up again. In fact, it's all gotten worse.

Facts are...Dennis Knickerbocker had ASSIGNED me an article on the very unique wildlife mounts and the history behind them at the newly renovated Pellston Airport. So I did the story, and Dennis had it scheduled for publication and had submitted my invoice for payment when he retired.

You pulled it, as you pulled a number of other writers' work, as you, understandably, wanted the magazine to have your "stamp". That's understandable, lots of new editors do that, and I didn't have a problem with it. I know the Pellston Airport people did, but there was nothing I could do about that.

So I asked you for a kill fee-standard operating procedure...by publications all over the world. We're talking maybe $50. Normal pay rate at that time for an article was a whopping $150, you didn't write for MUCC to get rich.

You refused...so, as any writer would do, I was done.

Perhaps that's how you worked with a lot of the writers who no longer write for MOOD any more. You're writing most of the magazine now.


Keep grabbing at straws, Tony.

Tony, I AM surprised you lasted more than a year...but that doesn't say anything about you, my friend, it says a lot about the lack of leadership at MUCC, both under Sam Washington and under Dennis Muchmore, whoever he was, I never knew him.

I would hope that's about to change under Erin's leadership, unless it does MUCC IS doomed, your membership numbers say that very clearly. You certainly haven't done anything to help, apparently.

[MERGANZER]

I don't know about all the intricacies of Linda G and Tony but I will say I dropped my membership when MUCC went PC and stopped doing what they once did for the Michigan Sportsperson. The magazine has gone down hill as have the television shows. The fight for the dove season lacked effort on behalf of MUCC and the backing of the new bottle bill irritated me as well. I have no desire to turn on the tv and watch a show on bird watching or hiking. It once was a hunting and fishing show in Michigan and that aspect has gone away. Not to mention the personalities of the show lack personality in general and on a side note I was treated very rudely by them in a business setting which is off the subject. MUCC beter right the ship or they will go down IMO. You can thump your chest all you want and say all you have done but I see nothing of significance that has been done for sportspeople in this state by MUCC in a long time.

Ganzer

[Linda G.]

Those were just a few of my exact feelings about the organization. And I have other issues with them as well that have nothing to do with Tony.

I would like to say, on the record, that I have remained good friends with Jimmy Gretzinger, and still enjoy seeing the show, which to my knowledge is no longer directy connected to MUCC, whenever I can. I'm also very glad to see Jenny back on the show, and wish them both luck with their endeavors. I'll help anytime in anyway I can.

And I did get that article printed, in a couple of other statewide publications.

[MOODMagazine]

Merganzer: If you haven't followed MUCC of late, I understand that. We did things wrong for many years. All I can say is that it has changed. I wouldn't be there if it hadn't. For starters, we have very little to do with what now airs on the TV show so whatever your dissatisfaction is there, there's not much for us to do about it. We are sponsors and do one segment. In a few weeks, we'll be launching a new website that I think you'll enjoy and will portray precisely what you've been wanting and missing. We, too, recognize what has gotten off track and are working to refocus on the things we should be doing. I have 100 percent confidence that we are on the right track -- and I think if you talked with key people in the outdoors they would verify that.

Here's a few things MUCC has done in just the last few months:

Held a Sportsman's Day at the Capitol in which the Conservation Coalition -- a group of sportsmen's groups organized by MUCC in an effort to get the sportsman's community speaking with one voice -- were on hand and talking with Legislators about hunting and fishing issues.

Had a Coalition meeting with John Cherry to discuss the DEQ/DNR merger and how it must NOT negatively impact the hunting/fishing/trapping community.

Testified and raised cain over a bill that would sell of 450 acres of public land to a golf course developer. The ONLY group to do so.

Fought against a bill that would allow open range for horses on public land and negatively impact hunter/angling access

Spearheaded the Deer Management Planning Process

Fought for a package of bills that the anti-hunters very much dislike in regards to livestock

Monitored the actions and activities of the newly-assigned HSUS staff in Lansing. Again, the first group to recognize what HSUS is up to.

Take a look at MichiganOutofDoors.com and you'll get a very brief glimpse at where we're headed. If you go to MUCC.org, you can sign up for our e-newsletters and see some of the past issues of those. Read them. And then decide if MUCC isn't working for the sportsmen and women of Michigan.

Merganzer -- like I said, I hear you. I agree. MUCC was off track. It's not anymore. I don't expect you to believe me immediately. I would be skeptical too. But there's one thing I think people who know me would say and that's that I am 100 percent committed to things I believe in. I am a hunter and that's exactly who I am and what I stand for. You can look into the other things that I do -- from Realtree.com to BassMaster to North American Whitetail to GreatNorthernOutdoors.net to the MidwestWhitetail site -- there is no way I'd ever do anything that wasn't in favor of our hunting heritage. I'm in this for the long haul and I look forward to proving that.

Yeah, MUCC screwed up some things. The dove bill was a collapse on ALL fronts. Sportsmen did not rally together. Plenty of blame to go around and there's no sense in rehashing it all. It's not what's happened that matters now. It's what happens next. HSUS is here and they're gearing up for a fight. That's fine with me. I kind of look forward to the chance to kick their a** back to D.C.

All I can hope is that the hunters and anglers of the state are ready to stand shoulder to shoulder to turn them back. I think they are.

[Linda G.]

That's a switch. Maybe you are growing up. I hope so. I at least expected to be threatened with a lawsuit again.

Anyway, I hope you're right, for the good of all of Michigan. But you've been saying that for several years now, right here on this board. And it only got worse. But that could have been due to having a leader with a background as a political lobbyist, and a wife who, if I remember someone telling me, had something to do in her employment with our governor.

I don't know Erin personally, but I do know many members of her family, and I know what great people they are, so I am behind Erin and wish her the best. She will need everyone's support, and that's an understatement.

[MOODMagazine]

I think you've done yourself enough damage Linda. I don't really need or have to say anything. The days of MUCC being bashed on things that are not warranted are over. If someone has a complaint, I'm here to listen. But unfounded rumors or half-truths are something I won't put up with. The outdoors community deserves better. We don't feature the wild flowers and nature-loving pieces that steered us away from our hunting and fishing roots -- that's why your piece on the stuffed animals didn't make the grade. Sorry, but the changes began the second I started editing the magazine because as an outdoorsman I saw many of the same problems that folks on this board have noticed.

So you can make your claims about what Dennis was or did. You can repeat rumors and lies about his family and wife -- which you have admitted to having zero direct knowledge of, yet you continue to fuel the rumor fire. I don't do that. I talk about what I know to be true and speak directly about what I intend to do. MUCC has not gotten worse. Again, check some facts. See what we've been doing the past year and then try to tell me we don't fight for the outdoors community. Fact is, you can't because that's all we've been doing. And, yes, I'm very proud of that. Guys like Steve and Merganzer have reason to doubt. My job is to make sure those doubts are erased. People that just want to sling mud and pretend to know more than they do, to spread rumors and talk about people's families -- whether they actually do know them or not -- sorry, I just don't see where they're useful to the mission of protecting the outdoors. I'd rather spend my time fighting the real enemies and the battles that matter -- like HSUS.

As always, you have my number. You know where my office is. I've made the invitation before and you've not yet shown up. Any time you want to talk with me or Erin in person, just let me know. I'm not hiding.

[Steelheadfred]

I don't know about all the intricacies of Linda G and Tony but I will say I dropped my membership when MUCC went PC and stopped doing what they once did for the Michigan Sportsperson. The magazine has gone down hill as have the television shows. The fight for the dove season lacked effort on behalf of MUCC and the backing of the new bottle bill irritated me as well. I have no desire to turn on the tv and watch a show on bird watching or hiking. It once was a hunting and fishing show in Michigan and that aspect has gone away. Not to mention the personalities of the show lack personality in general and on a side note I was treated very rudely by them in a business setting which is off the subject. MUCC beter right the ship or they will go down IMO. You can thump your chest all you want and say all you have done but I see nothing of significance that has been done for sportspeople in this state by MUCC in a long time.

Ganzer

Ganzer,

I have no dog in this fight, I will say though that now that Jimmy has full control of the TV show I have enjoyed it much much more, it is just plain better with far more hunting and fishing segments.

I think the TV show will only continue to get better into the future.

Fritz

Linda,

You have to give up the age thing, it means nothing in our economy or our world anymore, people are going to hire the smartest most talented people they can, does not matter about age, race, or gender. Just cause someone has been doing something for 10 years and someone for 40 does not mean squat. The age thing is ignorant, production is what counts, be it hunting turkey's or hunting grouse or catching blue gills or running a business or non-profit.

If you don't change you wilt and die.

[Linda G.]

You and Tony can go on about the age thing, as if I'm against young people or changing attitudes, but the fact is that many of the young people of today just don't seem to care anymore, they prefer TV and video-look at the fishing and hunting license numbers, despite our best efforts. Perhaps looking at what worked in the past might not be such a bad idea, huh? It WORKED. You, like Tony, think I'm against younger people, because I have criticized some of your opinions. Hardly, if you knew me better than our once or twice casual encounters, you'd know that. In fact, in your most recent thread, where a number of people came right out and called you a bellyacher, I stood up for you.


Here's some criticism for both of you-grow up.


Tony, I have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Dennis' wife and family. I never met any of them, and his wife passed away several years ago, he had my complete and total sympathies. You are waaaaayyyyy out of line, and flat out lying, as you have done before with other wild and way out of line accusations, to even suggest something like that, I have never said ANYTHING about Dennis that wasn't of the highest praise. He was, and still is, a good man. I enjoyed spending some time last summer with Dennis and he's doing well, I'm very happy for him.

You sure are impressing a lot of us with this latest tirade, Tony. Really makes the new co-head of MUCC or whatever you are look good. Makes MUCC look great....:lol:

[MOODMagazine]

Tirade? I think you're the one being a touch irrational. I'm talking about Dennis MUCHMORE. You know, the one you slandered in your post, along with his wife. Both of whom, like me, you've never met and know zero about. Like I said, I don't have to say a word to make folks realize what you're all about.

And it's not co-head. It's Deputy Director/CIO. What's that mean? Nothing more or less than what I've always been -- a Michigan hunter whose goal it is to make the sportsmen community band together, spend as much time in the woods and on the water as I can (imagine that an outdoor media person who actually hunts and fishes:lol:).

I have no agenda. Nothing I'm trying to hide or cover up. I want people to see MUCC in a new light. That's my job and it's what I believe in. If people attack me, or MUCC or our way of life I will stand up and fight back. That's the way I know. Sorry if that's not what makes you happy.

[Linda G.]

Never even crossed my mind that you were talking about Dennis Muchmore, who as I said I've never met, but I've heard plenty about...and that's what I said about him AND his wife. I don't think that constitutes slander. You really like to try throwing legal terms around as if you think you can scare people. That's very diplomatic. :lol:

So you think I'm crazy, lots of people do, that's nothing new...there's a reason for that, and I keep it that way. I don't care if people think I'm crazy. Doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks of me.

But I'm not the Deputy Director (did I get it right, wanted to be sure of it...LOL)of a major statewide sportsmans organization...or the only apparent voice of it, at least in the last few years.

Like YOU said, you don't have to say a word for people to know what you're about.

It's in your writing, your tone of voice on television, and your words on a message board.

Yourself...

Which is even more reassuring for the members of MUCC to know.

Keep trying. Good luck.

[Gobblerman]

As sportsmen and women in this great state we need to find common ground, bickering between one another only gives the anti-hunters ammunition to use against our sport and heritage.

If we do not work togther we may lose everything. Stop the personal attacks and stick to issues. There will be times that people disagree. If we handle our disagreements with dignity and respect for one another and find common ground I think we will be able to protect our hunting heritage for the youth of today and tomorrow.

Good luck to all this fall and hunt safe and enjoy the awesome Michigan outdoors.

[DEDGOOSE]

This may be the dumbest thread I have ever seen in the turkey board.

Carry on...

[Steelheadfred]

Linda,

I don't hold grudges, in our relationship you have not held them against me either and I appreciate that. If I agree with your stance I say so, and if I disagree I a say so, no hard feelings.

That said, to go back to the past and what worked is a double edged sword. One could argue that we had more hunters in the past because we were better at conservation just the same as one could argue that we have less hunters now because the ones in the past did not do more to support the sporting life style?

The truth is probaly both with a bunch more added in.