90 days, $100.00 fine, 3yrs. loss of license

[Airoh]

A man from Michigan shot his friend while hunting drunk. All he got was 90 days in jail, a $100.oo fine, and 3 yrs. loss of his hunting license.
I don't want my fellow hunters persecuted for mistakes, but I think this fine does not fit the crime. Whats your thoughts?

[Huntnut]

Did the shot hunter die?
Murder in the first.
There is NO excuse for that.
EVER
F'in yahoo's.
Somebody accidently shoots me in the woods...they better kill me with that shot...
chances are, I'm a better shot than them.
Hunt

[Kevin]

Not knowing the partuculars of the case, I can only submit my unqualified judgement and visceral reaction.
I view that as negligent, and reckless endangerment. If the same happened in an equally deadly tool: a vehicle, the penalties would be much worse.
My visceral reaction is that of revulsion and anger. I get pissed off at that kind of irresponsibility, and I get even more angry at the image that this sort of story portrays with respect to hunters, in the eyes of an already jaded public.
A stiff kick in the ass would be insufficient for anyone so stupid and self-indulgent as to use a firearm intoxicated.
I am glad that most of the folks around here are clearly not that type of sportsmen and women.
-Amos

[Airoh]

The hunter that was shot is dead.

I have never been in the woods with a drunken hunter. I think I'll keep it that way!

[Worm Dunker]

Airoh if you gun deer hunt on state land are you sure you've never hunted with a drunk?

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[This message has been edited by Worm Dunker (edited 01-24-2001).]

[Airoh]

I should have mentioned that the drunk saw a dark object, aimed at it and fired.
This was on the news tonight. The family of the dead hunter will fight to have tougher laws implimented.

[osage2orange]

This is a joke right,

It seems in our world today we have laws divided into catagories. Wrong is Wrong. If you go golfing and get drunk and because of your drunken stuper hit someone in the head with a golfball and kill them. Thats a punishably crime in my mind. People have a choice to be responsilble or not. If you choose no you pay. PERIOD!!!!

[The Nailer]

That has to be the one of most irresponsible judges there is. And more importantly this was not a hunter, it was a drunk w/ a gun and it wasn't an accident. He shot at a dark object that he either couldn't or didn't identify, so there was intent. This is the kind of junk the anti's jump on and the media highlights, unfortunately the vast majority of the general public doesn't know that this person does not represent hunters in general. How sad for the family of the person killed.

I have only three rules in my camp and the first two have absolutely no room for interpertation.

1.If you have a drink you don't hunt that day or handle a firearm.

2. There are to be no loaded guns in camp.

3. Everyone is to have fun.

[gsw83]

I saw the same report. that's why I don't hunt deer with firearms, only bow. Like one of the previous posts said, you don't know who's out there and what they have been doing. And to me the drinking was just an excuse. There was a guy in either indiana or ohio that shot his kid with an arrow! How the hell do you do that? I find the drinking unexcusable. I find the fact that people shoot at something they can't see just as bad. He should be in prison and never allowed to hunt again.

[Sarge]

If you choose to endanger another, you should be held responsible for the result. This guy chose to be in a state of "bad" judgement. He then chose to shoot a deadly weapon at something he "did not" identify as a lawful target. He took a life.

Bottom line, he chose to kill that individual. If the courts wants to be lenient, manlaughter is the least he deserves. Not even "involuntary" because he chose to take those actions.

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Sarge

Live your conscience. Leave others to theirs.

People against drunk drivers SAY the same thing.

[song_dog_slammer]

Guys and Gals lets all do are part to act responsibly.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that booze and guns don't mix.

[LabGuy]

Don't forget that doing our part also means to report any drunken slobs we see in the woods, or in the area that look like they are going to hunt.

These jerks give us all a bad name!

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Cliff Cushard
Cushard's Kennel

[Joe Archer]

It doesnt make sense. I think there is more to the story. The person who was shot was dressed in brown? He was wearing a hat topped with a rack? I do not in any way shape or form excuse the drunken slob in this case, but feel the judge must have had some evidence to believe it was an accident. Can anyone fill us in on "the rest of the story"? <----<<<

[shooter921]

Nobody should be hunting while they are drunk. You'd think he would have the common sense not to, even if he was drunk. I think he should to jail, get the fine, and loose the his license. What was the other guy thinking? Was he drunk to? He should have known better than to go out with a drunk! (If he wasn't hunting with the man, then it wasn't is fault. It wasn't really stated cleary)

[Tim Baker]

My best friend's mom was killed by a drunk driver when we were in high school. The guy got 15 years and so should this loser as I see no difference, 90 days is an absolute joke! And I don’t care what the victim was doing or wearing there is no excuse for shooting another person.

Tim

[Ultramag]

The other guy must have been drinking also. Who would go hunting with someone who has been drinking?

[Joe Archer]

Yeah, I cant help visualizing a picture of two people drinking too much. One, trying to be funny, takes off his camo, gets out his grunt call and rattling horns and tries to trick the other fellow, who also has been drinking too much. Who really know, I have enough faith in our legal system to believe that the judge must not have put all the blame on the shooter. <----<<<

[stelmon]

This is so weird...it seem like every story i hear of up norht for like a murder or druck driving then only get like a few day in jail...but then when something like that happens down hear and I hear about it it seems like they get life..wierd...that is very sad though

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Stelmon, the only one.
Becareful out there..

[bigmountain]

There simply isn't an excuse for hunting under the influence. The punishment is not harsh and should be harsher. Guns are not toys and neither are cars. Don't partice activities that could hurt others, let alone kill them.

[Huntress]

Very well said, bigmountain!

It suprises me how many people will not accept responsiblity for themselves or their actions. They are quick to blame the circumstances in their life or someone else for their mistakes. It is time to teach our children how to make good decisions and be responsible for their actions. It is time we made sure the punishment fits the crime. It is time for everyone to stand up for what is right and do our best to educate those who do not understand. Together we can make a difference.

Best Regards,
Huntress

[bonasabuster]

well ive said it before and i'll say it again go into a court with a pathidic excuse like i was drunk and my dad beat me you will get leinancy.go in and say i made a mistake and am willing to pay for the consiquences and you will get the book thrown at you!!!!!!!!just ask clinton!

[Lundy]

They should've thown the book at em

[boehr]

I have been reading this post and it upsets me when I read things like this. I'm sure there is some circumstances to this case that we don't know about but I have to put the blame on the judge here. There is no excuse for this penalty. The law provides for a bigger penalty for just hunting drunk little lone shooting somebody when drunk. The judges wonder why the legislature enacts some laws take away their authority to allow smaller penalties in some cases. It sounds to me that this judge and maybe even the prosecutor in this county need to be voted out of office!

[icewolf]

Like the old saying goes instant *#@ hole
just add Alcohol.

[clattin]

The guy that was killed was a good friend of mine's father-in-law. He had been hunting with the guy that killed him for 35 years. As it was relayed to me; he was wearing full blaze orange and stepped out to the edge of a field and the other guy drunkenly mistook him for a deer ?!? and shot him in the chest. The family is obviously having a terrible time dealing with this. Anyway, alcohol+guns= death.

[stelmon]

Anyway, alcohol+guns= death.[/B]

you got that right!


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Stelmon, the only one.
Becareful out there..

in 1999 i went to northern canada ot some so called friends. I was promised that they did not drink till the end of the days hunting. Well i came in for lunch and this one guy had been in since 10:00 am and drinking . He was getting ready to go back out at about 3:00 pm and i just loaded up my 4 wheelers and hooked up to my trailer and drove 20 hours home :)) i wasn't worried about him i was WORRIED about him shooting me :)

[HUNTING SAFELY]

I am the stepdaughter of the man that was shot and killed by his alcoholic friend????
I don't know how he can be considered a friend. Leonard is the drunk. Lee is the deceased. My stepsister (Named Kathy) was also hunting with the men. Nov 17th @ 5:30 this situation occured. They made plans to go hunting that day around 3p.m. They met up with Leonard on his land at the barn which has a loft with a window. This is where Leonard hunts from (out the window). Lee and Kathy have their blinds set up on the land far away from the barn. Before they left Leonard at the barn Lee asked Leonard if he has been drinking at all today? Leonards response "No LEE I haven't had a thing" Kathy told Leonard don't forget at 5:30 my dad will be walking through the corn field and that is where I will pick him up with the truck. She claims she told him this three times. Well, time of death was 5:35 p.m. In the police report Leonard states
he saw a shaddow and that is what he shot at.
Lee had an orange hat and orange coat on. Leonard was so intoxicated that he had no clue what time of day it was or what he was shooting at. It almost sounds like he did this intentionally. We know he did not but it definitely was negligence due to being totally intoxicated. The #*@hole blew a breathalizer of .156 at 8:30p.m. so keep in mind he probably hasn't had a drink since 5:30p.m. They drew a blood alcohol level later that night around 11:00p.m. which was still legally drunk of .11. He is your typical self centered, selfish alcoholic and doesn't care that what he is doing is affecting people around him. Everone needs to understand that Leonard has not been sentenced yet. They initially charged him with wreckless endagerment of a firearm ( which could get him up to 2 years in jail) and intoxication ( 90 days in jail). He was arraigned last week and they plea bargained. They droped the wreckless use of a firearm and he is only being charged with intoxication. What a wonderful justice system we have????. The entire problem is that their are no laws in the books about drinking alcohol and handling a firearm. My stepsister is in the process of speaking with senators and congressman to get a law. So the morale of this nightmare story is get in touch with your congressman so we can push this law ahead before this happens to someone like us. To all hunters please do not drink and handle a firarm. If you feel the need to drink than don't go hunting. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out does it?? We have been told that Leonard may not even get 90 days in jail. He could also be hunting next season. We feel he should never be able to hunt or handle a firearm for the rest of his life.

[boehr]

Hunting Safety...You have my condolences. There is law on the books about hunting while intoxicated and loosing hunting license but I agree, they are not stiff enough. Seems to me that the prosecutor has dropped the ball here. Besides hunting while intoxicated there are numerous other laws which the prosecutor could look at, for example negligent homicide. Please keep us posted. Maybe a writing campaign to the prosecutors office might be in order.

Here are two law cites that possibly apply although they are not strict enough for sure.

Michigan Compiled Laws, Section 324.43558 (3) A person licensed (hunting license) to carry a firearm under this part is prohibited from doing so while under the influence of a controlled substance or alcohol or a combination of a controlled substance and alcohol. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for 90 days, or a fine of $500.00, or both.

This penalty under a different law deals with causing injury or death to another with a firearm.
Michigan Complied Laws Section 752.845 Any person violating any of the provisions of this act shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not more than $100.00 and costs of prosecution, or imprisonment in the county jail for not to exceed 90 days, or both such fine and imprisonment in the discretion of the court. In addition to any fine or imprisonment, the court may suspend the hunting privileges of such person for a period of not to exceed 3 years from the date of conviction.


[This message has been edited by boehr (edited 01-29-2001).]

[Huntress]

My deepest condolences,Hunting Safely. The story of your loss saddens me deeply. I will join in your family's fight to get the laws changed.

Best Regards,
Huntress

[Joe Archer]

I was really stupid for expressing any faith in our legal system! Hunting Safely, my most sincere and humble appology! I (as Boehr) feel there are laws that he should have been prosecuted under. Again, I am sorry. <----<<<

[Airoh]

I would also like to send my deepest condolences. Prayers have been sent for both families. The grief caused by these things is something that nobody should ever have to face. I'm grateful for your post Huntsafely. Hopefully your family will cause some good to come from this.

[bigmountain]

I am sorry to hear of your loss. Thank you for posting the information on our site. Hopefully your time will influence the members of this site and guests so that this won't happen again. You can be sure that your kindness to us will be repayed by us supporting you in your time of sadness.

[bigmountain]

It is sad but here is yet another story of hunters not paying attention. In Nebraska, a bow hunter fatally shot and killed his own son. With the range of a bow, and the and the condition of a good clean shot in mind, how could this happen? The article did not mention if drugs were present, but no one in their right mind could make this mistake. We all need to pay attention to what we are shooting. I know that when I get out of my stand at night I make a little more noise, and even have a red light that I turn on to protect myself against this kind of tragedy.

[stelmon]

Hunting saffely, i am sorry to hear that. My prayers are with u. Its ashame the idiot is getting things tooken off. Hopefullly he will be punished much harder then he deserves.

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Stelmon, the only one.
Becareful out there..

[icewolf]

Sounds like the pepole hear that need to go
to jail is lawyers and the prosecutor their
should not be a plea-bargained when someone
takes anotherones life.

[CREW47]

im the hunters daughter an started new post

the edmiston bill should of wrote here
thank you all for reading it