Big boat questions

[kingfisher 11]

I am considering buying a bigger boat. I have always stayed around the 19'-20' range. With the boat deals out there I have been looking at 22'-28' range. I want to run a few questions by some of the members here to get the pros and cons. I would like to have one I could actually like to get one big enough to stay on for weekends.

Is there any motor or drives I should stay away from?
What max size of motor would be the cutoff off, if I want to stay economical?
Is single more economical then smaller twin engines. How about trolling?
What Items on a used boat should I make sure are not about to fail that will be expensive to repair?
Is it very expensive to have someone trailer a boat from eastside port to a westside port? Is it possible to rent a trailer once or twice a year? I have found several boats without trailers that are real good deals but this concerns me not having the flexibility. In most cases is it way to expensive to drive the boat around to a port on the opposite side of the state?
Anything on a sleeper style boat I want to make sure it has? Stay away from?
Price ranges for slips? Annual and daily?

Lots of question!:dizzy:

[Greenbush future]

I just did the opposite and down sized because of the only one lake (St Clair) and no trailer situation. For the last 8 years I trailer and enjoy all over Michigan. Deals are everywhere, I encourage a inspection before dropping any coin on used, it's worth $2-$300 to get a expert opinion. Other than that go find what you like and be extreemly picky because there are a bunch of gas hogs out there going really cheap. It's fun finding a new one, but get the expert opinion!

[kingfisher 11]

I just did the opposite and down sized because of the only one lake (St Clair) and no trailer situation. For the last 8 years I trailer and enjoy all over Michigan. Deals are everywhere, I encourage a inspection before dropping any coin on used, it's worth $2-$300 to get a expert opinion. Other than that go find what you like and be extreemly picky because there are a bunch of gas hogs out there going really cheap. It's fun finding a new one, but get the expert opinion!

Deals are everywhere. I suspect many are gas hogs that is exactly why I started to ask all of these questions. I like to take my time and do my homework before I make any decision. I may just stay small but I want to consider all options. With so many out there the right deal must be there. I think the gas suppliers are just waiting for the economy to rebound so they can inflate gas prices back up to the $4.00 gallon area.

[tinmarine]

Well, I trailer my boat everywhere I go and my 3/4 ton does fine with it. If your looking to stay out on weekends I would go with something at least 24'. I have a 22' and know people that have the same boat that do stay out in it, but, it's just not me. I prefer the straight inboards as opposed to the I/O. Better on gas, alot more room in the transom because my motor is in the center of the boat, plus, I don't have to worry about an outdrive. My boat is no speed demon by no means but it handles big waves very well. I have a 22' shamrock walk around. If I was in you position, I would step up to the 26' shamrock, or go with a 24-26 Carolina Classic, or Albemarle. Both come in inboard, or for those who like them I/O. They can handle anything Michigan has to throw at them, built like tanks, hold their value, and comfortably sleeps a few people. Oh, also, the Tiara's are great. One thing about single screw inboards, they take getting used to when it comes to docking. There is no reverse steering, so it gets tricky. But after owning mine, I'll never get an I/O.
Try and stay away from the 454's and big blocks, and carbs. A nice small block with injection is pretty decent on gas. EFI is best, the TBI's suck a little more down.

My boat;

http://www.shamrockboats.com/content.php?p=models/220/220_predator/gallery.html&gallery=1

[kingfisher 11]

Thanks Tin, I will keep all that in mind. I am very aware of the big 454"s sucking gas!

I have a guy who wants to work on a trade right now. I have a new fifth wheeler I would like to sell and he wants to trade even up. He has a 246 Four Winns Vista with a 260 I/O. I have never considered a four winns as a fishing boat. This one has all fiberglass flooring in the cockpit with 2 livewells. Never heard of that in a big boat. The interior is in very nice shape and would sleep four very easy. This boat has no trailer. This would do what I want. The layout on deck looks more like a entertaining boat. From what I read you can fold everything away to fish. We would entertain some so I guess that's not all bad.

[UNREEL]

There is no such thing as an "economical" big boat...

[paulywood]

I think that Jim (1maniac) has a 245 Four Winns. You might want to PM him for info on it. He might be able to help you out. I know slips can vary greatly from port to port or even marina to marina. I have heard anywhere from $1500 to $3500 on the west side. You could probably pick up a trailer for that boat for a couple grand. Might make your decision easier. Good luck.

[bad dog]

There is no such thing as an "economical" big boat...
Exactly what I was thinking. You may want to consider a sailboat.

[kingfisher 11]

There is no such thing as an "economical" big boat...

I agree but at some point certain boats are unrealistic for most average guys. I am one who will not be doing much wide open running. It will be sitting at a slip or trolling. I don't joy ride unless I am fishing and i don't tube or ski with my boats. Economics was the biggest reason I stayed with a 19' for so many years.

Keep it coming.. I have lots of unanswered questions....good or bad I like hearing it.

[UNREEL]

How much you want to spend will narrow down alot of your questions.

There are deals out there, but also alot of junk. Some will be rigged ready to go, some will need everything.

Me personally, 90% of the fishing I do is trolling, and as stated before inboards are the way to go. Not much maintenance other than the engines, and nothing is in the way.

Twin screws, of course. And then your looking at 27' or bigger. Anything decent used will start around 30k, most likely more.

If that isnt an option, a nice 25' walk around with outboards and a trailer and your going anywhere. Starting used around 20k.

Have an extra 5-10k set aside for upgrades and whatever else your gonna want to add...

[kingfisher 11]

How much you want to spend will narrow down alot of your questions.

There are deals out there, but also alot of junk. Some will be rigged ready to go, some will need everything.


I would like to stay under 10k. I have seen some good deals in the $7,500-8,500 range lately. I found a Starcraft 22' offshore hardtop. It won't be a weekender but it has everything I want for fishing and then some. It comes with the 4.3L. If I am going to make a comparison to cars. 4.3L is a good motor, 305 sucks on gas and you might as well go with the 350. On boats I don't know for sure?

I want something I can fish Saginaw Bay with then move or trailer it over to the westside. I normally do all of my salmon fishing in Charlevoix but have considered fishing more around Manistee this year.

[SalmonBum]

Is there any motor or drives I should stay away from?
What max size of motor would be the cutoff off, if I want to stay economical?
Is single more economical then smaller twin engines. How about trolling?
What Items on a used boat should I make sure are not about to fail that will be expensive to repair?
Is it very expensive to have someone trailer a boat from eastside port to a westside port? Is it possible to rent a trailer once or twice a year? I have found several boats without trailers that are real good deals but this concerns me not having the flexibility. In most cases is it way to expensive to drive the boat around to a port on the opposite side of the state?
Anything on a sleeper style boat I want to make sure it has? Stay away from?
Price ranges for slips? Annual and daily?

Lots of question!:dizzy:

1. Stay away from Merc Bravo 3's. Many corrosion problems.

2. Larger 2 stroke OB's don't like to troll from long periods. Buddies that do are always doing Carb\EFI work. Some115 Mercs with have 2+2, which will help with the carboning up. If you go with an OB 2 stroker, try to find a newer one with direct Injection or a 4 stroke.

3. Single is always more economical than twins. That’s easy to understand (twice the fuel, oil, plugs, and impellers). But as unreel says most boats over 27' need twins just to get outta their own way. Twins IB's and I\O's normally don't give you more top end, but the power needed to get them outta the hole. Alot of guys buy twins for safety factor, but don’t let that be a factor. If you keep up with maintenance, that will shrink your chances of being stranded. If something does happen, most salmon guys will not let ya sit out there. I usually tow in 2-3 boats a yr. Plus most insurance policies include Towing. Twin O/B's are not that great of a choice for most Salmon guys. Them big motors get in the way in the rear, so now your stuck netting on the side. I have know many to "try" that route and flat out hate them for just that reason and get stuck with them because no one else wants to buy them, either.

With the info above on the motors, I chose a single Volvo Duo-Prop. It pushes my 28' boat @ 27 mph cruise all day long while getting 3mpg. Most boats that size with twins are 1mpg, so 3 is HUGH. I burn literally 1/3 of fuel that my dock mates do, and the thing will still tickle 40mph. I can troll right down to .1 mph with my Beaver Trol too.

4. Things to look for.... if you’re not real good at looking at them yourself, hire a surveyor. Like Unreel said, there's allot of junk out there, so be careful. As for what is expensive to repair? All of it. There is nothing cheap about a boat. I have some of the most expensive hobbies a man can take up and boating by far is on the top of the list. Funny cause my snowmobile buddies are always crying about how expensive it is, and I just laugh. They have no clue. Snowmobiling is cheap compared to boating. The cheapest thing about owning a boat is the monthly payment. Maint, gas, equipment, bottom paint, blablablabla..... I you don't even wanna know what I have spent on my boat in the last week just on normal stuff that is an every spring thing.

5. To move a boat without a trailer.... It all depends on the size. Normally it will cost you at least $1000 to even get a professional to even think about hooking up. I'm sure you have buddies that could loan ya a truck for a weekend. If you find a boat that is a good deal without a trailer, don’t worry. Trailer mfg are fighting to sell you a trailer, so there are good deals on new ones to be had.

Your tow rig, if you have one yourself, needs to be considered. If your rig can't pull the plan, can you afford to upgrade? When I bought my boat back in 2003 I dropped a big chunk of change on it. Then I had to go drop another $50k on a diesel to pull it. The half ton I had wouldn't have like pulling 13,000 lbs down the road.

6. Sleeper. YES. Nothing better than not having to deal with people at the launch at 4am. No Hotels.... just roll outta bed and turn the key. Seasonal and Daily fees go by length. 30' slip (normally the smallest avail) is about $2000 on avg. Daily can be $20 up to $35 for a 28' boat. I usually put in before marinas have power, so the boat had to have a shower and hot water that ran off the motor. If this is something you would do, you need to consider that.


For the money your looking at spending, its gonna be hard to find something in your price range over 22-23 ft, and its gonna be older. An Islander or a maybe a small Trophy Cuddy could be found. I just sold a 1993 23' Trophy Rigged for just over $10k. Shorepower and all. Whatever you get, try to get the history on the boat. Try to get an understanding if the owner kept up and his maintenance and what not.

BTW.... Glance around for a mid 80's 27' Sea Ray Amberjack. Twin 350's are in high demand (or was anyways), but there are lost out there with 4.3 V's. They run very good with these, troll down with no problems and are much better on fuel than the 350's. Could be had for Hi teens low 20's.

[paulywood]

I think that in your price range you will be disappointed. I just bought a 22' Sportcraft and just about everything we looked at that was under $15,000 was beat up, not maintained, or very old. Even though the economy is down, people have not dropped the value on their boats. At least none of the boats we looked at. And we looked at a lot. The 27' Amberjack idea above is a good one. I have fished off of one with the twin 4.3's and it fished well and has a large cabin. I even came across a few for sale. I wouldn't consider it "trailerable" however as it has a 10' beam. Maybe twice a year to launch and retrieve, because you will have to pull permits every time. If you want trailerable then you will be under 27'. If you want to sleep on it than you want something that is at least 25', and not a walkaround. I don't plan on sleeping on mine except as a last case scenario. So that will really limit your options. The Four Winns might be a good boat but if it is under $10,000 I would definitely get a survey. You didn't say what year but for that price I'm assuming it's 20 yrs old and has sat in the water. If it was taken care of it's not a problem. But an expert opinion would be a good idea.

[kingfisher 11]

1. Stay away from Merc Bravo 3's. Many corrosion problems.

2. Larger 2 stroke OB's don't like to troll from long periods. Buddies that do are always doing Carb\EFI work. Some115 Mercs with have 2+2, which will help with the carboning up. If you go with an OB 2 stroker, try to find a newer one with direct Injection or a 4 stroke.

3. Single is always more economical than twins. That’s easy to understand (twice the fuel, oil, plugs, and impellers). But as unreel says most boats over 27' need twins just to get outta their own way. Twins IB's and I\O's normally don't give you more top end, but the power needed to get them outta the hole. Alot of guys buy twins for safety factor, but don’t let that be a factor. If you keep up with maintenance, that will shrink your chances of being stranded. If something does happen, most salmon guys will not let ya sit out there. I usually tow in 2-3 boats a yr. Plus most insurance policies include

Towing. Twin O/B's are not that great of a choice for most Salmon guys. Them big motors get in the way in the rear, so now your stuck netting on the side. I have know many to "try" that route and flat out hate them for just that reason and get stuck with them because no one else wants to buy them, either.

With the info above on the motors, I chose a single Volvo Duo-Prop. It pushes my 28' boat @ 27 mph cruise all day long while getting 3mpg. Most boats that size with twins are 1mpg, so 3 is HUGH. I burn literally 1/3 of fuel that my dock mates do, and the thing will still tickle 40mph. I can troll right down to .1 mph with my Beaver Trol too.

4. Things to look for.... if you’re not real good at looking at them yourself, hire a surveyor. Like Unreel said, there's allot of junk out there, so be careful. As for what is expensive to repair? All of it. There is nothing cheap about a boat. I have some of the most expensive hobbies a man can take up and boating by far is on the top of the list. Funny cause my snowmobile buddies are always crying about how expensive it is, and I just laugh. They have no clue. Snowmobiling is cheap compared to boating. The cheapest thing about owning a boat is the monthly payment. Maint, gas, equipment, bottom paint, blablablabla..... I you don't even wanna know what I have spent on my boat in the last week just on normal stuff that is an every spring thing.

5. To move a boat without a trailer.... It all depends on the size. Normally it will cost you at least $1000 to even get a professional to even think about hooking up. I'm sure you have buddies that could loan ya a truck for a weekend. If you find a boat that is a good deal without a trailer, don’t worry. Trailer mfg are fighting to sell you a trailer, so there are good deals on new ones to be had.

Your tow rig, if you have one yourself, needs to be considered. If your rig can't pull the plan, can you afford to upgrade? When I bought my boat back in 2003 I dropped a big chunk of change on it. Then I had to go drop another $50k on a diesel to pull it. The half ton I had wouldn't have like pulling 13,000 lbs down the road.

6. Sleeper. YES. Nothing better than not having to deal with people at the launch at 4am. No Hotels.... just roll outta bed and turn the key. Seasonal and Daily fees go by length. 30' slip (normally the smallest avail) is about $2000 on avg. Daily can be $20 up to $35 for a 28' boat. I usually put in before marinas have power, so the boat had to have a shower and hot water that ran off the motor. If this is something you would do, you need to consider that.


For the money your looking at spending, its gonna be hard to find something in your price range over 22-23 ft, and its gonna be older. An Islander or a maybe a small Trophy Cuddy could be found. I just sold a 1993 23' Trophy Rigged for just over $10k. Shorepower and all. Whatever you get, try to get the history on the boat. Try to get an understanding if the owner kept up and his maintenance and what not.

BTW.... Glance around for a mid 80's 27' Sea Ray Amberjack. Twin 350's are in high demand (or was anyways), but there are lost out there with 4.3 V's. They run very good with these, troll down with no problems and are much better on fuel than the 350's. Could be had for Hi teens low 20's.

Thanks, all good info. I am going to get a survey done if I pull the trigger. I had one of the new Merc 115 hp 2 plus 2 and it would troll all day without loading up. I will most likely stay away from an outboard this time around. I already have the truck, can't be without a truck! I sold my F-250 powerstroke diesel a while back and bought a new crew cab silverado. I sure miss the big Ford. If I did buy a boat without a trailer, I would wany to buy one.

Most of the boats I have looked at so far are 1989-1996. I only mention the 24' Four Winns because I have a guy who owns one. looking for a camper. I have a Fifth wheeler valued around $9000-$10,000. The guy would consider a trade even up. After talking with him I would say he was real anal about the up keep. He has completely redone the cockpit area in the last 12 months. This would almost be a perfect situation for me. I have a camper I need to sell and don't use. I want another boat. If I sell the camper outright I will most likely not consider this boat because it does not have a trailer and lacks some of the fishing options I would like.

Thanks also Paulywood

[SalmonBum]

You can find a used trailer for about $2k, new for about 3 or a bit over.

[UNREEL]

This was just posted in classifieds.

If your gonna pull the trigger, make sure this is in your sights.

You will not find a better made trailerable boat than this.

Im partial to Tiara/Pursuit for a reason...

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=14021

[UNREEL]

The more I look at it the more I want it....

[paulywood]

I did look at it. It was in pretty good shape for 20 yrs old. The 2 stroke main motor has a million hours on it. It doesn't have radar, it has a GPS. Also, the price is $2000 more than what he had it on Craig's List for.

[kingfisher 11]

I was just reading it. It would be perfect but I really wanted to stay below $10,000 even if it means I am going smaller then 24'.

Paulywood it says radar?

[kingfisher 11]

This is the boat I really like. I have been talking to him for about a week. Might even be gone by now. Any pros or cons about this boat you like or don't like?

http://nmi.craigslist.org/boa/1103696752.html

[SalmonBum]

This is the boat I really like. I have been talking to him for about a week. Might even be gone by now. Any pros or cons about this boat you like or don't like?

http://nmi.craigslist.org/boa/1103696752.html

I used to fish walleye tournaments in the Bay with a boat just like that. It's a GREAT boat for the money. Very seaworthy for the size. The 4.3 pushes the boat Ok. Cruise is in the mid 20's with maybe a 30mph topout. Gas will be better side, if the is such a thing. Fishing room is in the big side for a boat this size. The cabin is small. 2 people that wanna cuddle is about it. It would do the job for a weekend in a slip a time or two, but I wouldn't pick for an every weekend getaway. If you need more info on this boat, let me know.

That price is right too :).

As Unreel posted, that was a nice boat too for the money. But, If the OB has a million hrs on it with no overhaul, a powerhead is about $5000 :(. That could make a great priced boat one that u end upside down on. Both these style boats would do what you want in your price range.

[bad dog]

How much you want to spend will narrow down alot of your questions. Have an extra 5-10k set aside for upgrades and whatever else your gonna want to add...

Don't forget you'll need an operating budget. What ever you get, it's gonna cost a little more than your current boat.

[kingfisher 11]

Don't forget you'll need an operating budget. What ever you get, it's gonna cost a little more than your current boat.

Agreed, this is why I am trying to stay in the area I have budgeted. I hated to sell my last boat due to all the little hidden options you add. The Four Winns a guy wants to trade me for, is not setup for fishing. We all know what goes into getting a boat ready. I have all my walleye and salmon equipment, right down to the downriggers. So the boat I buy only needs rod holders and all of the electronics. If I can buy one completely set up even with gear it would be a big bonus. We all know you can never have to much fishing gear. Our fishing gear to us.... is what shoes are to a woman, never have too many.

I am actually leaning toward buying another cuddy style hardtop. I do like the trophies. One is listed here on MS for $8000. I guess the thoughts of trying to go with a sleeper and stay in my price range might take away the quality and setup of the boat. We do entertain and the thoughts of a nice big boat at a slip were nice but, who am I fooling I need a fishing boat first.

[UNREEL]

I did look at it. It was in pretty good shape for 20 yrs old. The 2 stroke main motor has a million hours on it. It doesn't have radar, it has a GPS. Also, the price is $2000 more than what he had it on Craig's List for.

And that is your bargaining tool.

The boat itself will last forever. Its not a Trophy. A Trophy is a Bayliner. A Pursuit is a Tiara. Enough said.

No offense to Trophy owners here.

When that 2 stroke finally pukes replace it with a 4 stroke.

By then they shouldnt be too hard to come by.

Keep in mind, a well maintained boat lasts a long time. Those that take care of their stuff shows, and 20yr old boats that look like showroom new proves it.

Ive had to pull out my registration a few times to convince people mine is 25 yrs old.

[paulywood]

Yeah, it says radar but it isn't. I have a bunch or pictures if you pm me your email I'll send them. I thought the boat was in "good" condition. I understand it's a Pursuit but it is 20 yrs old. I thought long and hard about it but my wife didn't like the layout. She wanted a few more seats to entertain. There is some work that needs to be done, excluding the engine. There are a few things that are no longer "factory" that I would have had to redo if I bought the boat. The trailer it is on is very heavy but not originally for that boat, so I would check the bunks and make sure it is sitting right. It's actually a Four Winns trailer. But more trailer than is needed, probably. It would make someone a good boat, just go in with your eyes open. If he would have gone done to $10,000 I probably would have looked harder, but he wouldn't budge. Oh well, I am very happy with my new boat. The Starcraft looks like a good boat at a good price.

[paulywood]

Oh, and it's actually a 20', not 22' as he listed.

[kingfisher 11]

Yeah, it says radar but it isn't. I have a bunch or pictures if you pm me your email I'll send them. I thought the boat was in "good" condition. I understand it's a Pursuit but it is 20 yrs old. I thought long and hard about it but my wife didn't like the layout. She wanted a few more seats to entertain. There is some work that needs to be done, excluding the engine. There are a few things that are no longer "factory" that I would have had to redo if I bought the boat. The trailer it is on is very heavy but not originally for that boat, so I would check the bunks and make sure it is sitting right. It's actually a Four Winns trailer. But more trailer than is needed, probably. It would make someone a good boat, just go in with your eyes open. If he would have gone done to $10,000 I probably would have looked harder, but he wouldn't budge. Oh well, I am very happy with my new boat. The Starcraft looks like a good boat at a good price.

I like it but I am not going look at it because of its price and a few other things that concern me. I do like the starcraft best so far.
No need for the pictures but thanks for the offer.

[tinmarine]

That Starcraft looks to be a great deal. Looks like it was well taken of and it's loaded with everything for salmon. We all know how much all that gear is worth. Nice boat. I would go for that over the Four Winns in a second. No questions about it.

[kingfisher 11]

That Starcraft looks to be a great deal. Looks like it was well taken of and it's loaded with everything for salmon. We all know how much all that gear is worth. Nice boat. I would go for that over the Four Winns in a second. No questions about it.


The catch is the fifth wheeler. I don't want to be paying for both at the same time. If I go with the even trade for the four winns then I eliminate the camper. If I sell the camper then I am open to just about anything. The starcraft is growing on me. I did find a trophy 21' that looks nice and is very inexpensive. Almost worth buying if its mechanically sound.

[kingfisher 11]

I got a chance to finally get photos taken and sent to me of the Four Winns the guy wants to trade. I got to tell you it may not be the perfect fishing boat (which my wife will like!) But its one heck of a pretty boat. The guy told me he is anal with the care of this boat and it shows. The pictures were taken this afternoon so its up to date photos. He said he gets comments on well his boat always looks.

I had him send me pictures of the live wells just to see where they were. There is one on each side of the engine compartment.

Still not sure if I will do the trade but I got to believe the value of this boat is much more then what I am trading.

I put some photos in my gallery. If i can figure how to post them here I will. Might have to call on polarbear again!

[kingfisher 11]

OK, more quesions.

I am taking my time since there is so many big boats for sale. I have found what looks to be a good deal on a four winns 267 quest. This is a fishing boat from the pictures. Tomorrow I look at it.

The question I have.....the boat's motor is mid ship with a shaft running to he outdrive. I have been told this helps plane the boat out better and was an option for a few years with this model. Anyone have info good or bad on this type of setup?

The boat has lots of fishing room at the back. Includes large live wells.

[tinmarine]

It puts the motor more towards the center of the boat and stabilizes the ride alot more. Much better ride. There are companies that use the jack shaft setup for all their boats. Look up Albemarle, and Carolina Classic boats. Both builders are top tier and and use that system exclusively for their I/O's and they're built for the ocean. Great position for the motor. The trailer will need to be balanced for that boat though. Can't use a trailer made for an outboard, unless you want to kill a whole lot of gas towing, not to mention the suspension on the truck.