New Pump... still no water!! AAGGHH!!

[waterfoul]

First off... thanks for changing the pump for me Carl. Much appreciated.

But apparently there is another issue we did not see. I don't even get water into the block. This is a 1997 Merc 150 EFI motor. There is a big plug on the back of the motor that drains the block. Running it on the hose with this plug out should produce a pretty drastic spray of water out this hole. Nothing. It's like the water never makes it up the mid section and into the block. There must be an obstruction somewhere. BUT, when I put the hose to the big plug and turn on the water I do get water out the intakes on the lower. Go figure!!

Unless someone thinks they can solve this issue this weekend and wants to come fix it (I just don't have the time, inclination, or desire) it's going to the shop on Monday.

[Lucky Dog]

You might want to take it to the lake and run it.
I had a 97 EFI and the thing would barely spit out the pee hole, and some times nothing would come out. At idle those things would only carry a couple pounds of water pressure. On the muffs it was worse.
As far as the big plug, seems like that was for flushing after salt water use, and had some kind of valve system in it. I don't think I got water out of mine when the plug was out and the engine was running. Your talking about the plastic plug with the square head, and is right next to the pee hole, right?

Good luck, I hope it nothing serious.

[bassdisaster]

First off... thanks for changing the pump for me Carl. Much appreciated.

But apparently there is another issue we did not see. I don't even get water into the block. This is a 1997 Merc 150 EFI motor. There is a big plug on the back of the motor that drains the block. Running it on the hose with this plug out should produce a pretty drastic spray of water out this hole. Nothing. It's like the water never makes it up the mid section and into the block. There must be an obstruction somewhere. BUT, when I put the hose to the big plug and turn on the water I do get water out the intakes on the lower. Go figure!!

Unless someone thinks they can solve this issue this weekend and wants to come fix it (I just don't have the time, inclination, or desire) it's going to the shop on Monday.

If you recall, when I removed the housing and impeller I said it was in good enuff shape that it should be moving water, but it was getting bad and changing it is always the best option! Not thinking about it, but i did not even look to see if the water pipe that feeds from the pump to the adapter plate was clogged? Never looked, Also I did get that 1 missing nut replaced, but beware, the reason it was not on became apparent, when i couldent start it with out it wanting to cross thread, What a pain that was, but after a short struggle i did manage to get it on!

The only thing I can think of is possibly the thermostats could be froze, or simply did not run long enuff to open!

I would think ya.....something is not rite, why have a drain plug in the block when the water that would drain there can simply exit the intake ports back thru the pump?
Maybe the adapter plate has been froze? I dunno, its a different beast than I have, so I just speculating? Mud Dobers, built a nest and filled it FULL? LOL but it can happen, this new motor i got had 3 such nests in it!
Id say remove the thermosstat's verify that they are even there? both the motor's I bought had no stat's!

Carl/BD

[waterfoul]

I talked to my merc guru buddy on the phone... that big plug on the back should spew every drop of water from the water pump when the plug is removed. It's a direct shot from the pump to this plug. The pump is not getting the water UP to the bottom of the block, which has nothing to do with the t-stat.

[Hookineyezz]

I wonder if the shaft that drives the impellor is broken? Or the gear tat spins it?

[bassdisaster]

I talked to my merc guru buddy on the phone... that big plug on the back should spew every drop of water from the water pump when the plug is removed. It's a direct shot from the pump to this plug. The pump is not getting the water UP to the bottom of the block, which has nothing to do with the t-stat.

Weird???
Cant get it back to gether without everything lined up, so I can be certain thats not the problem!
My motor has no such drain plug?
I dunno what the deal could be, you said water drained from the block plug out the intake? had to pass thru the pump then? so the intake shouldent be plugged? otherwise it would had said TURN THE WATER ON or something stupid lol!

[bassdisaster]

I wonder if the shaft that drives the impellor is broken? Or the gear tat spins it?
No it run's on the drive shaft, held in place with a 1/4 moon key
thingie, cant even get it in place if its not lined up!
Have you put it in gear? is the shaft spinning lol??

BD

[bassdisaster]

Water hose pressure alone should be enuff to get water from the intake to the pump, or even up to that block drain you spoke of??

Still Guessing??

BD

[ManxFishing]

I know the Mercurys have a copper pipe that you have make sure that's
lined up.
The copper pipe is on the upper end and it fits in to the lower end
It can get bent while removing the lower unit.
And you can get every thing back togther with them not being lined up. It's the main feed for the water to the block

And I'd asume you have the pump going in the right direction?

[PWOG]

Im going with the motor hasnt heated up enuf:help: to open the thermostat to ever allow water to run into the block, much less out the saltwater drain plug.

[waterfoul]

OK... realize this... there is nothing between the drain plug on the back of the motor and the pump. It's a DIRECT shot.

To the shop it goes. Hate paying the long dollar but it's just not going to get fixed any other way.

[Zofchak]

Has the boat been sitting for a while? Like Bassdisaster mentioned wasps are well known for plugging up the water intakes on outboards. I've seen it a many, many times. Before you take it apart again run it down to the launch and try it backed into water. Amazingly enough a hose is not always going to give you the flow you need for the water pump.

[bassdisaster]

The Impeller is a rubber paddle, when new there no paticular direction of rotation, upon instaliation you have to twist it to the point of curling the fin's, tho never reverse a used impeller, it will fail quite fast!
According to my manual's (2002 MAX) low pressure could be caused by several thing's
Poppet valve spring weak, broken, missing.
bad seal on same poppet,
thermostat stuck open,
severe internal leak,
inlet restriction!

As I assembled it, I can be sure I had the water pump pipe lined up, its copper and you have to get it in place before you can even attempt the drive shaft spline, then when the drive shaft is started, then you have to align the shifter spline and make sure the vent hose is in place and hooked up!

I think this is the problem the other owners had, thus the discoloration on the drive shaft from severe overheating???????

BD

[hunter143]

Check to see if the spiders made a nic nest up in the inlet port on the motor.Had thi happen to me once on an evinrude.....

[ManxFishing]

OK... realize this... there is nothing between the drain plug on the back of the motor and the pump. It's a DIRECT shot.

But there is
The copper tube needs to be lined up between the upper and the lower

[bassdisaster]

When you told me what you paid, i was jealous yaaa
I looked a long while to get the deal I got,(but I got a ChampioN) and you beat me by......EFI, 7 years newer and $800 less, I ended up paying for my deal with another $1000, and my time, well I hate to say it but even if you end up with another thou in to yours.....well you still beat me! OUCH!

Nice rig by the way!

BD

[waterfoul]

While in the shower just now I got to thinking about the muffs possibly not be putting enough water UP to the pump as it does fit fairly lose on the lower unit. When I get a chance I will drag the boat to a ramp and back it in and see what happens as I really don't have a bucket/garbage can big enough to get the lower unit into. Besides... nearest ramp is only about 3 miles away.

I did put the garden hose into that plug on the back of the motor (salt water flush). Same thread as the garden hose. Ran the water... I get water out of the intake grates when I do this so I know there is at least some sort of path for the water to take.

[bassdisaster]

While in the shower just now I got to thinking about the muffs possibly not be putting enough water UP to the pump as it does fit fairly lose on the lower unit. When I get a chance I will drag the boat to a ramp and back it in and see what happens as I really don't have a bucket/garbage can big enough to get the lower unit into. Besides... nearest ramp is only about 3 miles away.

I did put the garden hose into that plug on the back of the motor (salt water flush). Same thread as the garden hose. Ran the water... I get water out of the intake grates when I do this so I know there is at least some sort of path for the water to take.

Proves the copper pipe is in place at least, when you had the water hooked up nothing came out the prop/exhaust?
Oh yeah, my water hook up is a real tight fit!
Also seems like it took 30-40 seconds befor mine had water coming out the tell tail, but had water exiting the prop rite away!

BD

[Revpilot]

waterfoul,

i have a 150 optimax and it will not pump water at all with muffs........ i remebering hooking it up to muffs the first time and nothing happend....i was shitting my pants, since it was only a year old......hurried up and pulled it over to the ramp, backed in her in and started and it was pumping like a dream.........so my fingers are crossed for you.......

[jacktownhooker]

Check to see if the spiders made a nic nest up in the inlet port on the motor.Had thi happen to me once on an evinrude..... i mentioned that earlier this week !
simple enough to check and has happened to me many times

[northernhunt]

From what you described it sounds like the impeller

As long as you have water coming thru the prop, you are OK.

I was told that the water that comes out, the "top rear" of the motor is only less than 5% of the water that cools the engine.
Acts kinda like an indicator light.

[barryl]

OTo the shop it goes. Hate paying the long dollar but it's just not going to get fixed any other way.

Don't feel bad, I had a mechanic work on my 99 135 Opt-max for over a year (2-3 weeks at a time), had a particular overheat problem and it wasn't until I took it to a merc dealer (Au Gres Marine) that the problem was finally fixed. The mechanic said each engine class has it quirks and he knew the opti max quirks. It was just a real relief. Good luck with yours!

[walleyeman2006]

not to high jack the thread but fyi that half moon thing is called a woodruff key.......and if you need one most are common sizes and can be purchesed cheaper then through a marine dealer if you look online...when i replce an impelar i allways hit it with dish soap.....that can fry very fast

[bassdisaster]

not to high jack the thread but fyi that half moon thing is called a woodruff key.......and if you need one most are common sizes and can be purchesed cheaper then through a marine dealer if you look online...when i replce an impelar i allways hit it with dish soap.....that can fry very fast

Learn something new every day! Woodruff key eh!
When I assembled the pump the key and impeller slid rite in place, no worries there, what is it you say will fry? I can see where dishsoap would help assembly if its a snug fit, but that was not the case at all!
The no water from the tell-tail problem existed befor we replaced the pump, but sence it hadent been ran for 2 years a new impeller was a good idea either way.
And as to weather its overheating now I do not know, i do know it had at some point got real hot, the top of the pump housing that was replaced was meted on the inside a little, also the pump base had some of the same issues along with the drive shaft turning a multi color of BLUE!
Im perplexed. Once he sets it in a lake the truth will be told, I cant see it not moving water, since it has new impeller and housing!

BD

[waterfoul]

I get out of work at 5:30 so I hope to have the boat backed into the ramp by 6:30. Then we'll see....

[waterfoul]

Well, stuck it in the river ramp. Fired right up. No water. Let it run about 1 minute or so. I do get some exhaust/steam out of the tell tale hole.

I'm done dealing with it. To the shop on Monday! :rant:

[ManxFishing]

Well,
Let us know what they find out

If it makes you feel any better
Most of us have had the same problems in the past
Last year I dropped my lower unit at least a dozen times before we figured it out.

[waterfoul]

Well, if the weather is o.k. tomorrow I MIGHT (that's a big might) drop it once just to take a look. But the weather doesn't look good.

[ManxFishing]

On mine
I had a shop replace the seals and the impeller
It ended up being the wrong impeller. It was the right dia. but not the right thickness (hieght)
After we figured that out it was preaty easy to see the housing was 1 1/2" deep and the impeller was only 1"

[waterfoul]

I know the impeller is the right part.

[macbass]

mike call me about pump a lot of times water pump will not work on muffs especially mercury motors. need to be completely suberged in water to get the pressure that they need to pump water. plus a few more rpms to pull it up thru..have seen this more than once..

[PWOG]

Might want to look back and see he put the motor in at the launch ramps.
Increasing RPM's on a tell tail tube thats only spitting steam might not be the answer either. imo

[AMAS77]

My 94 200 merc usualy will not pump water with muffs at idle.

[bassdisaster]

My 1989 Mercury 175 spits water from prop/exhaust rite off, and the tell-tail in 30 seconds or so, but i dont have thermostat's installed and as the water that feed's the telltail comes from the thermostat's, then if they are closed = no water pissin out the tell-tail to see!

If there was not water circulating the motor, expecially after he said he let it run for a minute or so, it would or should have overheated they get HOT fast and the sensor's would had alearted him to it!

I dont kow Mike, take it to a shop if you want, but i think if it were me I would investigate a little more, if it were me, on the other hand that outboard is easily worth what you paid for the entire rig, so maybe its worth the risk and w.e. they charge for service!

BD

[Erik the Bold]

I've worked on (and raced) V-6 Merc's for more than 25 years, and I've replaced numerous customer's powerheads with melted #1 and #2 cylinders due to obstructed water passages.

You have one or more of these problems:

1) Incorrect impeller

2) Incorrectly installed impeller - you must turn the drive shaft ccw (looking from the top) while installing the water pump impeller housing.

3) Worn or cracked impeller housing, lower housing, or leaks at gaskets

4) Damaged, plugged or incorrectly lined up water tube (I vote this one...)

5) OR, if you installed complete new water pump, you may have installed one of the gaskets incorrectly.

The plug on the side is made to install a fresh water flush or a hull mounted water pickup.

Merc water pumps work fine with muffs on city water pressure, if your garden hose is the correct size. (Use 5/8" hose, not 1/2") You may not see water out the tell-tale at idle, but you should at 1500 rpm.

Let us know what you find out.

[waterfoul]

I've worked on (and raced) V-6 Merc's for more than 25 years, and I've replaced numerous customer's powerheads with melted #1 and #2 cylinders due to obstructed water passages.

You have one or more of these problems:

1) Incorrect impeller Nope, got the right one. I sell them!

2) Incorrectly installed impeller - you must turn the drive shaft ccw (looking from the top) while installing the water pump impeller housing. Nope, got that right too.

3) Worn or cracked impeller housing, lower housing, or leaks at gaskets Not that I can tell.

4) Damaged, plugged or incorrectly lined up water tube (I vote this one...) Nope, I watched the tube line up when I put the lower on yesterday.

5) OR, if you installed complete new water pump, you may have installed one of the gaskets incorrectly. Can't speak for wrong or not... went with the diagram from the manual so I'd guess they are correct.

The plug on the side is made to install a fresh water flush or a hull mounted water pickup.

Merc water pumps work fine with muffs on city water pressure, if your garden hose is the correct size. (Use 5/8" hose, not 1/2") You may not see water out the tell-tale at idle, but you should at 1500 rpm.

Let us know what you find out.


My guess is there is an obstruction somewhere I cannot find/see.

[shametamer]

have you talked with the original owner? or have you decided you would just be lied to anyway?.................seems theres plenty of 'thinktanks/mechanics' around here you should have solved this dilemma if it was gonna be reasonable(and not a major overhaul)...you could try zob Zob/..he is a mercury mechanic working out of kenosha wisc(he is a member here)

[waterfoul]

Actually I'm waiting to see what it's going to cost before I call the guy I bought the boat from. Seems he was a real tool.

I'm taking it to TLC in Marne. Ted is a former Merc mechanic and comes highly recommended by some of the top tourney fishermen in the area. Guys I'd trust with my boat.

[bassdisaster]

Leads me to think that maybe a chunk or 2 of the old impeller that they had to replace went up the tube and is clogging it somewhere?

FYI all..........this problem existed BEFORE the water pump change that we just did! And the old impeller was intact and not brittle, tho a Little worn from starting with no water!

Hope you find some luck there Mike, sorry that a pump repair did not fix the problem! Good Luck!

BD

[brigeton]

I took a couple motors to TLC. My wife baby sat him when he was a kid.The last one was a 25merc that wouldn't idle. He looked at it & said it didn't have compression. He wanted $300 plus to take the head off & find out why. I said no thanks, took it home & it took 10 minutes to pull the exhaust cover and see the cylinders walls were gone. I'll do my own work now, thanks.

[rivrat1959]

Our first rip out this year with my cousins boat we had problems with it pumping water also( he has a merc 150 efi). When we dropped it in the water and started it we were backing out and I noticed no water, we let it run for a couple minutes and then shut it down, waited a few second and then started again, still no water, shut it down and started it again still no water, by this time we're getting pissed off. so we try it again yahoooo, spitting some water out, but seemed a little week. So we started down the channel and went a ways and got the temp. alarm so we immediatly shut it down. waited a while and started upo again and it was peeing out of telltale a little better but we got the alarm again, shut it down again and waited awhile and started up(also trimmed the motor down more),water coming out of telltale was fairly warm and then we got alrm one time and then went out. we slowly made our way towards the lake with motor trimmed down and a little more throttle the water was pissing out a lot better and we never got another alarm and has ran good every since. I think what happened was first time out and the pump got airbound or air pocket in block. Finally vented itself. Just something to think about . Sorta same situation (motor set for long time) and same motor.
Also when I hook my 40hp johnson uo to muffsand hose I dont get any water out of telltale, but as soon as it in water it pisses like a drunk'n sailor.

[4 Car Garage]

Leads me to think that maybe a chunk or 2 of the old impeller that they had to replace went up the tube and is clogging it somewhere?

FYI all..........this problem existed BEFORE the water pump change that we just did! And the old impeller was intact and not brittle, tho a Little worn from starting with no water!

Hope you find some luck there Mike, sorry that a pump repair did not fix the problem! Good Luck!

BD

Maybe it is more complicated than I am thinking but couldn't you just push a wire through the tube to try and clear it? Or maybe some high pressure water?

[waterfoul]

Maybe it is more complicated than I am thinking but couldn't you just push a wire through the tube to try and clear it? Or maybe some high pressure water?

Tried the water.

Honestly, I don't think the pump is sending any water to the top. You'd have to see what I'm talking about to understand it. I think there is something blocking the inlet that I just cannot get out of the lower unit.

[treehunter2]

www.iboats.com try there forum for repairs helped me many times on rebuilds... lots of good info

[Houghton laker]

Keep us posted with the results!

[k8vol]

Mike. Ted is a good egg he will find it and make it right . steve k8vol

[waterfoul]

Yeah, he came highly recommended by some guys I think know what they are talking about.

[thedude]

at least someone is working on your boat, mines been sitting out in the weather for 4 weeks waiting for someone to think about fixing it.
at least i have a backup... i got a real nice rock bass on my little trip out tonight. probably a state record.

[waterfoul]

What's wrong with the Avalanche?

[Priority1]

I keep tuning into this thread just to see what the problem is. It's got me hooked like a soap opera.:)

[thedude]

they used a body putty on top of the welds when they fixed the cracks a few years ago.. which has cracked and opened up the paint. Doesn't look like its the aluminum thats cracked - but tracker doesn't want to pay for it, d&r doesn't want to pay for it... and i'm pretty sure body putty shouldn't crack after 2 seasons..... so i sure as **** ain't paying for it either. So there it sits.

oh yeah, and my fancy pants free 1500 dollar trolling motor needs a new control board.

[Bailipanga]

i'm afraid touch dad's or my boat this year...some bad mojo going around!!:dizzy:

[Erik the Bold]

Any verdict on this yet??? :confused:

[pp185xlt]

I've worked on (and raced) V-6 Merc's for more than 25 years, and I've replaced numerous customer's powerheads with melted #1 and #2 cylinders due to obstructed water passages.

You have one or more of these problems:



2) Incorrectly installed impeller - you must turn the drive shaft ccw (looking from the top) while installing the water pump impeller housing.


Let us know what you find out.

Drive shaft is to be turned clockwise, not counter clockwise. If you dont rotate it the correct direction you can damage the pump immediately when you go to fire it up. Its not that tough of a system, drop the lower unit again, blow compressed air through the water tube, remove the waterpump housing, install a new water pump, you go that far why not replace it? If the housing has any indication of a burned rubber in it or melted plastic replace it. Somethings not right, and more than likely its a simple fix.

One other thing to always check is to make sure where the copper tube goes into the bottom of the motor make sure its a good tight fit and no burnt rubber/plastic.

[waterfoul]

We had the wrong housing in the lower unit. Simple as that. Works fine now.

61.2 mph best speed so far.

[pp185xlt]

That will happen, glad to hear you got it fixed.