Crossbows now approved for hunting.

[ST8]

I am reading in my South Bend Tribune sunday paper;

New regulations approved by the MI DNR commission last week expand the legal use of crossbows. Crossbows may now be used by anyone age 50 or older during the Oct.1 - Nov. 14 deer season STATEWIDE; by ANY hunter age 12 or older during ANY hunting season in Zone 3 of southern Michigan, including the bow hunting season; and during ANY SEASON in which a firearm may be used, for both big and small game statewide.

The DNR also limits the velocity of the crossbow to those weapons that shoot no more than 350 fps. A crossbow stamp will be required in addition to hunting licenses for those using the crossbows. Statmps will be available March 15 at license retailers. The stamp which is FREE, will help the DNR monitor crossbow hunting over the next three years.

So there you have it. I have never tried the crossbow and have yet to master my PSE. I think I will wait before I make that jump. At least until next year when I hit the big 50!! Can you even recover the arrows at the speed??? Seems like the arrows would go through the deer and out of sight into the ground at that speed.

Just spreading the news. No, I did not check the DNR web site just what I am reading this Sunday morning. Good luck to all!!

[thunder river outfitters]

i guess i am surprised they did this, but then again it doesnt. its just the states way of generating more licenses for more money.
i believe there is alot of people that hang up their archery equipment because they can no longer pull their bow back....which is fine...they shouldnt make i that easy. i dont know how i really feel about this till we have a full season under our belts. michigan has the highest number of hunters, this will only add to it i guess.

[Luv2hunteup]

There are quite a few threads and posts on the new crossbow rules in the Archery and Crossbow forum.

[Huntermax-4]

It is pretty sad that we have come down to this. A crossbow is not archery equipment. Anyone to lazy or not willing to commit the time to master a bow and arrow(except those with disabilities) should have to wait until the gun season to deer hunt. It always took a little more skill to bowhunt which is one of the reasons I would rather take to the woods with my stick and string, but this is no longer the case. Next thing you know they will include all primative weapons to be used during all seasons including muzzleloaders.

[flinch]

It will ruin archery season! Oh wait, compounds already did that.

[Munsterlndr]

i guess i am surprised they did this, but then again it doesnt. its just the states way of generating more licenses for more money.
i believe there is alot of people that hang up their archery equipment because they can no longer pull their bow back....which is fine...they shouldnt make i that easy. i dont know how i really feel about this till we have a full season under our belts. michigan has the highest number of hunters, this will only add to it i guess.

You do realize that close to 100,000 archery hunters have hung up their bows during the last ten years in Michigan? That Ohio now has as many hunters participating in archery season as Michigan does? That the Michigan DNR is facing a $10 million dollar shortfall in revenue this year? That the 15 new CO's who went through training are not going to be hired because of budget constraints?

So which DNR services would you like to see them get rid of? Fewer CO's? Maybe close a few public access sites on some of our inland lakes? Put the brakes on acquiring any additional public hunting lands? Maybe close down the few remaining public shooting ranges?

I'm not intending to be critical of your reasoning but the fact of the matter is, hunter numbers in Michigan are declining rapidly and DNR funding is directly tied to hunter numbers. The DNR is trying to increase hunter opportunity and increase the number of hunters that participate in hunting and the shooting sports, in hopes of being able to keep providing the services that they have in the past.

It's not a zero sum game, if we continue to lose more hunters, we will continue to lose more services from the DNR. So to those of you who are opposed to crossbows, what's your solution to recruit and retain more hunters or increase revenue? An expanded firearms season?, Increased bag limits on Bucks? License fee increases? What's your solution?

[Luv2hunteup]

It will ruin archery season! Oh wait, compounds already did that.
:yeahthat:
Crossbow season is separate from archery season, it has it's own rules; the only similarity is the dates.

It's too bad that crossbow hunters will now have to share their woods with the most selfish group of sportsman in our state. :lol:

[huntingfool43]

It's too bad that crossbow hunters will now have to share their woods with the most selfish group of sportsman in our state. :lol:

:yeahthat:

[oldrank]

I am looking forward to buying my new crossbow and all the little toys already........It will put a little money into the economy....I only see this as a good thing and cant wait to get in the woods this fall.......the weapon should not matter as much as the tag system when it comes to noticing any difference in the deer herd from crossbow hunters. They can still only kill 2 bucks.......this will have no negative impact at all on deer hunting in Michigan.

[bucksnbows]

I am looking forward to buying my new crossbow and all the little toys already........It will put a little money into the economy....I only see this as a good thing and cant wait to get in the woods this fall.......the weapon should not matter as much as the tag system when it comes to noticing any difference in the deer herd from crossbow hunters. They can still only kill 2 bucks.......this will have no negative impact at all on deer hunting in Michigan.
Ya I think our management system has more effect on the hunting than the weapons that are used. I don't have any desire to put my bow down but I don't think crossbows will be tooo big of a deal. I guess we will see.

[bucksnbows]

You do realize that close to 100,000 archery hunters have hung up their bows during the last ten years in Michigan? That Ohio now has as many hunters participating in archery season as Michigan does? That the Michigan DNR is facing a $10 million dollar shortfall in revenue this year? That the 15 new CO's who went through training are not going to be hired because of budget constraints?

So which DNR services would you like to see them get rid of? Fewer CO's? Maybe close a few public access sites on some of our inland lakes? Put the brakes on acquiring any additional public hunting lands? Maybe close down the few remaining public shooting ranges?

I'm not intending to be critical of your reasoning but the fact of the matter is, hunter numbers in Michigan are declining rapidly and DNR funding is directly tied to hunter numbers. The DNR is trying to increase hunter opportunity and increase the number of hunters that participate in hunting and the shooting sports, in hopes of being able to keep providing the services that they have in the past.

It's not a zero sum game, if we continue to lose more hunters, we will continue to lose more services from the DNR. So to those of you who are opposed to crossbows, what's your solution to recruit and retain more hunters or increase revenue? An expanded firearms season?, Increased bag limits on Bucks? License fee increases? What's your solution?

Maybe if the mushroom hunters, hikers, mt. bikers, etc, that use the public land chipped in more money like the hunters and fisherman the DNR would be in better shape. I am not against crossbows but it seems that hunters and fisherman flip the majority of the bill the DNR needs for their services. Because we are taking or using the states resources for recreational use we need to buy tags, but other than a daily or seasonal parking pass (state park stickers too), the above mentioned do not contribute any more. Some hunters and fisherman have to buy the passes to park, along with licenses to hunt or fish. No license is needed to pick mushrooms or hike.
This may not solve the finacial issues of the DNR, but IMO it would take some of the pressure and burden off the hunting and fishing community.

[Munsterlndr]

Maybe if the mushroom hunters, hikers, mt. bikers, etc, that use the public land chipped in more money like the hunters and fisherman the DNR would be in better shape. I am not against crossbows but it seems that hunters and fisherman flip the majority of the bill the DNR needs for their services. Because we are taking or using the states resources for recreational use we need to buy tags, but other than a daily or seasonal parking pass (state park stickers too), the above mentioned do not contribute any more. Some hunters and fisherman have to buy the passes to park, along with licenses to hunt or fish. No license is needed to pick mushrooms or hike.
This may not solve the financial issues of the DNR, but IMO it would take some of the pressure and burden off the hunting and fishing community.

Ok, you provided some alternative sources for funding, I applaud that. Now, who is going to lobby for those changes to be made? Are you going to network with a bunch of other guys and get the ball rolling on these initiatives? Are you going to sit down with legislators and take time off from work to attend NRC meetings to push for these changes? If so, I will continue to applaud your efforts. If you are just going to throw out suggestions (this is not directed at you B&B) and hope that the DNR jumps on them and puts them into place, then my guess is that we are going to be in the same financial mess several years from now. Whether or not you agree with crossbows, at least the proponents of them got off our collective ****'s and lobbied for a change that has the potential to create new revenue streams and reverse the trend of declining hunter numbers. I'd challenge those who don't want crossbows to do the same, get involved and get some measures enacted so that the DNR is not chronically underfunded.

[bucksnbows]

Ok, you provided some alternative sources for funding, I applaud that. Now, who is going to lobby for those changes to be made? Are you going to network with a bunch of other guys and get the ball rolling on these initiatives? Are you going to sit down with legislators and take time off from work to attend NRC meetings to push for these changes? If so, I will continue to applaud your efforts. If you are just going to throw out suggestions (this is not directed at you B&B) and hope that the DNR jumps on them and puts them into place, then my guess is that we are going to be in the same financial mess several years from now. Whether or not you agree with crossbows, at least the proponents of them got off our collective ****'s and lobbied for a change that has the potential to create new revenue streams and reverse the trend of declining hunter numbers. I'd challenge those who don't want crossbows to do the same, get involved and get some measures enacted so that the DNR is not chronically underfunded.

I am full of ideas but you are right, I am not the guy who is going to go the distance to try to make it happen. Due to just not being able to really make time and not having the know how. As for the crossbow guys who did, I applaud them for their efforts too, even though I have no desire to use a crossbow and not really a big fan of crossbows being allowed during archery season, but one day I may not be able to pull a bow back and the hard work of those before me will be greatly appreciated. I would hate to have to quit hunting the archery season.

My reason for not being a big fan of crossbows is only because I find that the extra effort one has to or should put into becoming a good shot with a vertical bow makes the kill a bit more rewarding. Thus the same reason I am not a big gun hunting fan, even though I still get out in the woods with a gun.

[flinch]

My reason for not being a big fan of crossbows is only because I find that the extra effort one has to or should put into becoming a good shot with a vertical bow makes the kill a bit more rewarding. Thus the same reason I am not a big gun hunting fan, even though I still get out in the woods with a gun.

So we can assume then that you don't use a compound or any of the fancy sites, trigger releases, expanding broadheads, and carbon arrows for the same reasons, correct? Or have you decided that your level of technology is rewarding, but no further?

[Liv4Huntin']

.................I would hate to have to quit hunting the archery season.

My reason for not being a big fan of crossbows is only because I find that the extra effort one has to or should put into becoming a good shot with a vertical bow makes the kill a bit more rewarding. Thus the same reason I am not a big gun hunting fan, even though I still get out in the woods with a gun.

And isn't it GRAND that you NOW have the CHOICE????
~m~

[bucksnbows]

So we can assume then that you don't use a compound or any of the fancy sites, trigger releases, expanding broadheads, and carbon arrows for the same reasons, correct? Or have you decided that your level of technology is rewarding, but no further?

First its funny how you only Quote that part of my post. Typical of how things get turned around by those who only look for the negativity of things in life. Seems most of your posts that I have run across lately have the same tone as this one.:rolleyes:
I shoot a 60# compund (10 years old) with carbon arrows, it shoots about 280 fps. I use muzzy 100grain 3 blade broadheads. I have a trophy hunter drop away rest and a fletch hunter release that is also about 10 or 12 years old. I use a peep site and my sights I use are a 5 pin tru glo sight.
Yes I use more technology that the "true " traditional archer, but IMO it still requires more practice than a crossbow. I hunt with a guy who uses a crossbow. He sighted it in and was shooting 4 inch groups at 25 yards within a half hour. First time he shot the crossbow in 4 years. It was an older Xbow and IMO a piece of junk compared to the newer ones. He never took another shot with that bow again until he killed a doe with it 3 weeks later. That to me is proof that it does not require the pratice that any verticle bow does to shoot well. The mechanics of proper form are not as important with the xbow. Doesn't mean it is easier to hunt with just easier to shoot.

[bucksnbows]

And isn't it GRAND that you NOW have the CHOICE????
~m~
Yes it is. And please don't try to make me look like I am against the new rules on xbows, because I am not. Just not a big fan of xbows thats all.:)
I truly don't think the new rules will effect me at all in the up coming season.

[trout]

I'm glad they did make them legal to use etc.
One of these days the sportspeople in Michigan will be forced to realize they are all brothers in the woods.
A deer camp is a deer camp.
What people use to kill a deer is no biz of mine.
You'd better be worried about bigger issues if you want to keep your hunting traditions alive.

[November Sunrise]

I'm glad they did make them legal to use etc.
One of these days the sportspeople in Michigan will be forced to realize they are all brothers in the woods.
A deer camp is a deer camp.
What people use to kill a deer is no biz of mine.
You'd better be worried about bigger issues if you want to keep your hunting traditions alive.

Great post Trout!

[Liv4Huntin']

Yes it is. And please don't try to make me look like I am against the new rules on xbows, because I am not. Just not a big fan of xbows thats all.:)
I truly don't think the new rules will effect me at all in the up coming season.

bnb: Not trying to 'make you look' like anything ... you have already pointed out that 'the previous work' will be greatly appreciated IF you ever have to, in the future, go to using a crossbow. Merely pointing out, especially for the benefit of anyone still with negative views (which I don't see you as having) of the crossbow, that there is a choice -- to USE or NOT use one. It is now the CHOICE of the user.

Sorry for any misunderstanding .... I wasn't meaning to 'dis' you or your post.
:coolgleam
~m~

[Non Typical]

So you are not a big fan or you don't want to use one. That is ok, I want this to happen without problems. I don't want to have a muzzle loader walking around my stand but I get them, and I don't get to upset about the idea. Now for those that don't know that a xbow is indeed a archers tool, just like your compound, or recurve,or longbow, need to look in the dictionary under Arbalist.....an archer :) who shoots a crossbow! For some this will mean that the dictionary is wrong, my question is what is wrong with you!!!:dizzy:

[marty]

I'm glad they did make them legal to use etc.
One of these days the sportspeople in Michigan will be forced to realize they are all brothers in the woods.
A deer camp is a deer camp.
What people use to kill a deer is no biz of mine.
You'd better be worried about bigger issues if you want to keep your hunting traditions alive.

Kurt is that you???:yikes:

[bmd1023]

im sorry but does it really matter if someone uses a crossbow? Is it really any diff than using a muzzleloader in shotgun zone. to each thier own i say. people need to quit bit$%ing about it. just my thoughts.

[skulldugary]

I just don't see what all of the hoopla is all about...in the end are'nt they all(long,recurve,self,crossbow) legal and ethical management tools.No one is getting anyone down and forcing them to use a cross bow.It's a matter now of choise and up to each archer what they choose to hunt with.
I seen a post about making shroom pickers,hikers and bikers pay to put more monies into the DNR,seems like they are already outdoors people and from what I gather most are hunters,fisher persons,camp ground users,boat launch users(ect.) that have already paid fees of one kind or another so that kind of puts the kabosh on the users fee.

[plugger]

I hope we dont see alot of people mushroom hunting with crossbows!

[sniper's mojo]

Some of the states referred to like Ohio that have full inclsuion for crossbows for archery season also have there gun season outside of the rut and a one buck regardless of weapon rule. Ironically they have a better overall buck age structure than Michigan.:dizzy: That is why the U.S. is great, if you don't like the way your state manages a recreational activity such as deer hunting then you can go hunt in a differnt one that does. I saw substantially more and larger bucks in 5 days of hunting in Ohio last year than I did during the entire Michigan bow season last year. No I did not go to a ranch with antler restrictions or a guided pay to hunt deal either, just some private land in the southern part of that state. The only thing constant is change, at least we have the freedom to travel to other states who's rules more fit our style of hunting and goals. I will be spending the rut in Kansas this year but who knows a decade or two down the road Kansas may become a kill anything with an inch of bone on its head kind of state and we will give you another buck tag to boot and Michigan will be the one managing for a healthier age structure in the herd and my time and money will again be spent here.:lol:

[00Buck]

I hope we dont see alot of people mushroom hunting with crossbows!

I would never think of hunting shroom's with a crossbow. use at least a 44 mag handgun, or a 308 long gun.

gotta watch those shrooms-- they sneak up on ya when you least expect them. and talk about dangerous. always be safe and have a backup hunter with you!

[Blood Dog]

Maybe this new Crossbow rule is for all the guys that think they can't bowhunt without bait (aka Master Baiters). It is a shame that many in this state think they can't kill a deer with a bow with out a pile to stare at all night.:sad:

[onenationhere]

Here we go with the baiting crap again,ugggh

[Whit1]

Here we go with the baiting crap again,ugggh


Nope! Not in here. That discussion can take place somewhere else.

[MichiganHunter1971]

So I read the first post, The changes will allow a person 12 or older to hunt with a crossbow on state and private lands in Southern Michigan, but not in the rifle zone of up north, and 50 or older statewide.. So this is somewhat full inclusion in zone 3 right?

[tracker14]

I think anyone parked on state land needs to have a anual sticker like the boat launches do. Whats the diff watere or woods. Both are state owned!

[bigdaddypife]

It is pretty sad that we have come down to this. A crossbow is not archery equipment. Anyone to lazy or not willing to commit the time to master a bow and arrow(except those with disabilities) should have to wait until the gun season to deer hunt. It always took a little more skill to bowhunt which is one of the reasons I would rather take to the woods with my stick and string, but this is no longer the case. Next thing you know they will include all primative weapons to be used during all seasons including muzzleloaders.

Well then wouldn't a high powered rifle be the ultimate lazy mans tool, since it has the ability to down a whitetail at 400+ yards? I beg to differ, I think it is progressive to allow hunters to use a crossbow. Even though you say those with disabilities, say you fell out of your tree (god-forbid) and ended up with a serious shoulder injury or partial paralysis, and left it nearly impossible to draw a conventional compound, would you just give up the sport instead of using a crossbow? Why do you think a crossbow is a crutch? That is just once scenario. I do not think it is either lazy, or lack of skill. Crossbows give you no more of an advantage. They are a 30-40 yard tool just like a compound. Now, it is of your opinion and I will respect that, but other states allow crossbow hunting and have tremendous bucks killed their each year. I equate more hunters, to a better management program. More hunters, killing more does:lol:

[Ice Digger]

I really don't think that recurve, long bow, or compound bow hunters are going to give them up to hunt with a crossbow, and if some do they are in for a big surprise. I hunt with a crossbow, and have since 1998, and I wish I could use a compound bow. Crossbows are heavy, awkward, noisey, and it takes longer to cock, and mount a bolt, whether you are in a ground blind, tree stand, or stalking. The 20" or 22" bolt isn't as effective as a longer, thinner arrow shot from a compound bow. They can do the job, but they have there limits to, just like all other bows.:smile-mad

[harehound]

This another management tool and a way to increase the number of hunters. In either Case it is a win win for Michigan sportsman.

[Ice Digger]

yes, that is true, and they will pee that money away like they usually do. I just enjoy deer hunting even if I don't shoot a deer.

[Hackman]

I like to stump shoot and scout with recurve and judo points. And when the rut starts I'll be hunting with both compound and x-Bow and thats what make the good ole USA . I thank the politician who pushed the bill .

[Ice Digger]

The bill didn't affect me one way or the other, becuase I have had my xbow permit since 98, but it gives others a chance to hunt with an xbow, if they want to.

[fishx65]

Quick question: Are crossbow hunters allowed to take 2 does with a combo tag like they can with a vertical bow? If so, this could be a problem in some of the NLP and UP counties. I know some of the NLP counties have not had doe permits for years and the doe popultions are just starting to make a nice comeback. If there are gonna be so many more hunters in the North woods during the early archery season like most on here say, this might be bad for some struggling deer populations.

[Munsterlndr]

Quick question: Are crossbow hunters allowed to take 2 does with a combo tag like they can with a vertical bow? If so, this could be a problem in some of the NLP and UP counties. I know some of the NLP counties have not had doe permits for years and the doe populations are just starting to make a nice comeback. If there are gonna be so many more hunters in the North woods during the early archery season like most on here say, this might be bad for some struggling deer populations.

During archery season yes, they can, but the way it stands currently, only those 50+ can hunt with a crossbow in the NLP & UP, unless they have a permit or it's during a firearms season and during firearms season, firearms rules apply just like with a vertical bow, so they can't use the combo as a hunters choice then.

According to Rod Clute, the NLP was approx. 100,000 deer over stated population goals at the beginning of last years season. The NRC is looking at opening up 10 more NLP DMU's to a late antlerless firearms season at next month's meeting. We have TB in part of the NLP and the specter of CWD in another part and the spread of both is limited by reduced deer populations. Ten years ago we had 100,000 more archery hunters in the woods who could harvest does with both halves of the combo license. The herd has been growing in size in the SLP & NLP for the past 5 years. I really would not sweat a few more deer being killed by crossbow hunters, from the way some people talk you would think the whitetail was an endangered species.

[Ice Digger]

The only time I use my crossbow for deer is during the bow season. During rifle season I use a rifle, handgun or shotgun. I am over 50+, and I do have a crossbow permit.

[Bowmen7]

:mad: Will now the people that have never shot a deer with their compounds or recurves or never tryed to shoot a bow will be able to kill a deer, because it can't get any easier then useing a Xbow. As far as bring new people into the sport thats just fine and for those that have given it up comes down to one thing where they going to hunt, you people are all worried about the number of hunters, if we weren't loseing place to hunt at the high rate that we are there would be more hunters. There are more hunters now then there ever as been it's just that The percentage of the population that hunts as dropped, but there are still more hunters then there ever has been. The only people that will be useing a Xbow are the ones that have never tryed bowhunting because it takes time to learn about bowhunting and those that have never spent the time to become good enough to hunt with a bow, but now they can spend a few minutes sighting in their Xbows and are good to go, lazey pure and smiple. And for those few that have bow hunted in the past and can not pull a bow, I am happy for you. It comes down to money and a state in need, and the wants of the insurance companys, I can't wait to find all the dead deer lying around with bolts sticking out of them, because these same people will not take the time to learn about how to hunt with a Xbow there's more to it then just shooting a deer because you can see it.

[Bowmen7]

During archery season yes, they can, but the way it stands currently, only those 50+ can hunt with a crossbow in the NLP & UP, unless they have a permit or it's during a firearms season and during firearms season, firearms rules apply just like with a vertical bow, so they can't use the combo as a hunters choice then.

According to Rod Clute, the NLP was approx. 100,000 deer over stated population goals at the beginning of last years season. The NRC is looking at opening up 10 more NLP DMU's to a late antlerless firearms season at next month's meeting. We have TB in part of the NLP and the specter of CWD in another part and the spread of both is limited by reduced deer populations. Ten years ago we had 100,000 more archery hunters in the woods who could harvest does with both halves of the combo license. The herd has been growing in size in the SLP & NLP for the past 5 years. I really would not sweat a few more deer being killed by crossbow hunters, from the way some people talk you would think the whitetail was an endangered species.

No, but with the way we manage are deer herd they soon will be!

[Michihunter]

:mad: Will now the people that have never shot a deer with their compounds or recurves or never tryed to shoot a bow will be able to kill a deer, because it can't get any easier then useing a Xbow. As far as bring new people into the sport thats just fine and for those that have given it up comes down to one thing where they going to hunt, you people are all worried about the number of hunters, if we weren't loseing place to hunt at the high rate that we are there would be more hunters. There are more hunters now then there ever as been it's just that The percentage of the population that hunts as dropped, but there are still more hunters then there ever has been. The only people that will be useing a Xbow are the ones that have never tryed bowhunting because it takes time to learn about bowhunting and those that have never spent the time to become good enough to hunt with a bow, but now they can spend a few minutes sighting in their Xbows and are good to go, lazey pure and smiple. And for those few that have bow hunted in the past and can not pull a bow, I am happy for you. It comes down to money and a state in need, and the wants of the insurance companys, I can't wait to find all the dead deer lying around with bolts sticking out of them, because these same people will not take the time to learn about how to hunt with a Xbow there's more to it then just shooting a deer because you can see it.Can you please provide some actual data (facts) that support your claims of:
1) A Crossbow is easier to hunt with
2) That there are more hunters now than ever
3) That only those that have never archery hunted before will use a crossbow now.
4) That it was the insurance companies that wanted to implement the crossbow
5) That crossbow users are any less of a hunter.

I'd be interested in knowing where you obtained this information so that I can better understand your concerns.

[Steve]

Can you please provide some actual data (facts) that support your claims of:
1) A Crossbow is easier to hunt with
2) That there are more hunters now than ever
3) That only those that have never archery hunted before will use a crossbow now.
4) That it was the insurance companies that wanted to implement the crossbow
5) That crossbow users are any less of a hunter.

I'd be interested in knowing where you obtained this information so that I can better understand your concerns.

I thought 1) and 3) were actually desired outcomes.

[skipper34]

:mad: Will now the people that have never shot a deer with their compounds or recurves or never tryed to shoot a bow will be able to kill a deer, because it can't get any easier then useing a Xbow. As far as bring new people into the sport thats just fine and for those that have given it up comes down to one thing where they going to hunt, you people are all worried about the number of hunters, if we weren't loseing place to hunt at the high rate that we are there would be more hunters. There are more hunters now then there ever as been it's just that The percentage of the population that hunts as dropped, but there are still more hunters then there ever has been. The only people that will be useing a Xbow are the ones that have never tryed bowhunting because it takes time to learn about bowhunting and those that have never spent the time to become good enough to hunt with a bow, but now they can spend a few minutes sighting in their Xbows and are good to go, lazey pure and smiple. And for those few that have bow hunted in the past and can not pull a bow, I am happy for you. It comes down to money and a state in need, and the wants of the insurance companys, I can't wait to find all the dead deer lying around with bolts sticking out of them, because these same people will not take the time to learn about how to hunt with a Xbow there's more to it then just shooting a deer because you can see it.

This is the textbook anti-crossbow rhetoric. Another hunter who is more concerned about another hunter who may outdo him. I still for the life of me cannot understand how one hunter using a weapon of choice, whether it is easier or not, affects another hunter. Unless the hunter using the easier weapon is sitting in the same treestand or in the same ground blind with the complaining hunter. What it comes down to is competition from other hunters. Hand-wringing over the thought that someone else may shoot "their" deer. Pathetic.

[Michihunter]

I thought 1) and 3) were actually desired outcomes.Crossbows are not necessarily easier to "hunt" with Steve. The success rates are comparable to that of a compound bow. However, they may be easier to "shoot" than a compound bow but that too is somewhat debatable.

#3 is a response to: The only people that will be useing a Xbow are the ones that have never tryed bowhunting

[Munsterlndr]

There are more hunters now then there ever as been it's just that The percentage of the population that hunts as dropped, but there are still more hunters then there ever has been.

There are approx. 25% fewer bow hunters in Michigan then there were just ten years ago and we continue to lose around 10-12,000 a year. Those are the facts and that is the reality. The premise that there is not an adequate amount of land available to hunt on is another strawman. Drive a short distance to the NLP and there are hundreds of thousands of acres of uncrowded public land to hunt on. Go a little further to the UP and you are talking about millions of huntable public land acres being available. I'll leave it at that, you are obviously as well informed about hunting with a crossbow as you are about the decreasing numbers of hunters.

[Riva]

:mad: Will now the people that have never shot a deer with their compounds or recurves or never tryed to shoot a bow will be able to kill a deer, because it can't get any easier then useing a Xbow. As far as bring new people into the sport thats just fine and,for those that have given it up comes down to one thing where they going to hunt, you people are all worried about the number of hunters, if we weren't loseing place to hunt at the high rate that we are there would be more hunters. There are more hunters now then there ever as been it's just that The percentage of the population that hunts as dropped, but there are still more hunters then there ever has been. The only people that will be useing a Xbow are the ones that have never tryed bowhunting because it takes time to learn about bowhunting and, those that have never spent the time to become good enough to hunt with a bow, but now they can spend a few minutes sighting in their Xbows and are good to go, lazey pure and smiple. And, for those few that have bow hunted in the past and can not pull a bow, I am happy for you. It comes down to money and a state in need, and the wants of the insurance companys, I can't wait to find all the dead deer lying around with bolts sticking out of them, because these same people will not take the time to learn about how to hunt with a Xbow there's more to it then just shooting a deer because you can see it.


You know, I getting fed up with those advocating crossbows being called lazy. I find that term malicious and beyond mean-spirited. Yet, it's allowed to be tossed around in a cavalier manner without so much as a blink from other posters, let along the M-S moderating hierarchy. I’m sorry; being labeled as lazy is not an adjective. In my book, it's an accusation. Why is this action being permitted? Where is the accountability?

I could easily reply to this poster's statement by describing it a moronic. Or, I could craft an angry retaliatory response by personally calling him a moron. If the latter were to occur, the moderator heavens would open up and I would be struck down with a vengeance. However; when this equally vile dart of being called "lazy" is tossed our way, it’s treated simply as the suffering one must endure as a crossbow advocate.

I say bull****!

Looking at this poster's entire post, it’s so fraught with grammatical and spelling errors that one could liken its author as being a dunce. Do you think the poster would like being called a dunce? I would surmise that his answer would be that he would like it as much as I enjoy being accused of being lazy.

Think about it. :sad:

[lscha]

I have been an avid bow hunter for 36 years. About 2 years ago I started having trouble pulling my bow back (age and arthritis). Last year I sadly gave up my season because I knew I didn't have the strength to make a clean kill anymore.

I was overjoyed to hear about the new Michigan law. It meant that I could get my bow season back. I have been on all the forums and in all the sporting goods shops. I shot crossbows to see how they felt and how I liked them. I bought one and can't wait for the season.

For those who are upset about 'sharing' the woods with crossbow hunters: I have been sharing the woods with YOU for 36 years without whining. I just swapped out my weapon. And I'm sorry the traditional purists don't have their own state! And if you think the crossbow is such a huge advantage, check out the trajectory and fps compared to the compounds. You will see that the compounds have a distance advantage if that is what is important to you. I have put in my time of hard work and practice to successfully bow hunt and don't feel the uninformed should be so quick to judge my 'one-shot' weapon choice!!

Your mean-spirited comments aimed at crossbow hunters (many aging) suggests you are either very young or have serious tunnel-vision problems.

For the rest of you, if you are looking for fun, informative, helpful fellow crossbowers with great ideas and sense of humor check out the other forums.

This is not the forum for me and I won't be back.

Laura

[Terry Williams]

You know, I getting fed up with those not advocating crossbows being called selfish. I find that term malicious and beyond mean-spirited. Yet, it's allowed to be tossed around in a cavalier manner without so much as a blink from other posters, let along the M-S moderating hierarchy. I’m sorry; being labeled as selfish is not an adjective. In my book, it's an accusation. Why is this action being permitted? Where is the accountability?

I could easily reply to this poster's statement by describing it a moronic. Or, I could craft an angry retaliatory response by personally calling him a moron. If the latter were to occur, the moderator heavens would open up and I would be struck down with a vengeance. However; when this equally vile dart of being called "selfish" is tossed our way, it’s treated simply as the suffering one must endure as a non crossbow advocate.

I say bull****!


Think about it. :sad:



:lol: Very well written Riva, as always of course

[Liver and Onions]

......
Looking at this poster's entire post, it’s so fraught with grammatical and spelling errors that one could liken its author as being a dunce. Think about it...... :sad:



Just so you know, 3 of your corrections are wrong.

L & O

[Steve]

There are approx. 25% fewer bow hunters in Michigan then there were just ten years ago and we continue to lose around 10-12,000 a year. Those are the facts and that is the reality. The premise that there is not an adequate amount of land available to hunt on is another strawman. Drive a short distance to the NLP and there are hundreds of thousands of acres of uncrowded public land to hunt on. Go a little further to the UP and you are talking about millions of huntable public land acres being available. I'll leave it at that, you are obviously as well informed about hunting with a crossbow as you are about the decreasing numbers of hunters.

And it is up to us to fix that. Mentor someone in bowhunting. This year I setup a youngster with one of my old bows. Gave him the arrows broadheads, the whole 9 yards. I don't think there is a better feeling in the world than getting somebody else hooked. It's great to come back after a hunt and listen to the stories of someone new to the sport!

[Ken]

I really don't think that recurve, long bow, or compound bow hunters are going to give them up to hunt with a crossbow, and if some do they are in for a big surprise. I hunt with a crossbow, and have since 1998, and I wish I could use a compound bow. Crossbows are heavy, awkward, noisey, and it takes longer to cock, and mount a bolt, whether you are in a ground blind, tree stand, or stalking. The 20" or 22" bolt isn't as effective as a longer, thinner arrow shot from a compound bow. They can do the job, but they have there limits to, just like all other bows.:smile-mad

might want to dig up some research or do a poll before posting that statement.

I did give up my compound and made the switch last year. I had a great bow from one of the leading makers. I shot very well with it, always accurately and consistantly out to 30 yards.

Frankly, I will never regret it, or look back. It's light, handy, quiet, and powerful.

my broadhead target that I was using for my compound isn't even stopping the bolts. I had to put another one behind it.

[Munsterlndr]

And it is up to us to fix that. Mentor someone in bowhunting. This year I setup a youngster with one of my old bows. Gave him the arrows broadheads, the whole 9 yards. I don't think there is a better feeling in the world than getting somebody else hooked. It's great to come back after a hunt and listen to the stories of someone new to the sport!

On the micro level there is no question that mentoring is a great thing and can help get kids interested in the sport. To their credit, MBH sponsors summer events to draw kids into archery. But let's face facts here, we are fighting a war of attrition. MBH teaches maybe 150 kids to shoot bows at a summer camp. Maybe a half to a third actually stick with it and eventually graduate to become bow hunters. In the mean time, another 10,000 guys get too old to comfortably practice and pull back a bow so they drop out of the sport. That 10,000 - 12,000 a year is a net loss, after all of the newcomers to the sport have already been factored in. How long do you suggest we keep fighting a losing battle using conventional methods? We have lost 25% so far doing the same old, same old. Do you want to wait another ten years till we are down to 50% of the numbers we had at the peak?

No question, mentoring is great but it's a fallacy to think that all it takes is a little bit more mentoring to turn around the exodus that this sport has seen. Time to make a paradigm shift and take a different approach. No guarantee it will work but it's worth a try.

[Steve]

I never said mentoring was the only thing we need to do.

[Riva]

:lol: Very well written Riva, as always of course

Thank you, Terrence. As before, as always, I forgive you.;)

[Riva]

Just so you know, 3 of your corrections are wrong.

L & O

L&O,
Thank you for the astute observation. Please note, my intention was not to proof-read this person's text, chapter and verse, but rather, to avoid, as much as possible from stepping in it!

Know what I mean, jellybean?:lol:

[Whit1]

I think we've seen enough of this thread.