Proposal to Change Walleye Regs on St. Joe River

[Jay Wesley]

Fisheries Division of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources is proposing to eliminate the one walleye over 23 inches bag limit on the St. Joseph River. This regulation went into effect about 10 years ago after some angler concerns that too many large spawning walleye were being harvested. The thought was that these large females could produce more eggs and potentially increase natural reproduction in the St. Joseph River.

Since this regulation has been in effect, the DNR has kept track of harvest through creel census and has analyzed natural reproduction by stocking only marked fish into the system. Results of these studies show that harvest of large fish has not changed with the regulation and that natural reproduction has remained the same at 10% or less in the St. Joseph River. We do not feel that there is a stock-recruitment relationship on the St. Joe. There are plenty of mature fish in the system. The limiting factor is habitat and perhaps water quality.

In an effort to make regulations more consistent, the DNR is proposing to eliminate this regulation.

What do you think??

[MSUICEMAN]

if sound science says its the correct thing to do, don't let public opinion (many ill-informed) make the decision, but thats just my .02

[TheUrbanMustache]

Fisheries Division of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources is proposing to eliminate the one walleye over 23 inches bag limit on the St. Joseph River. This regulation went into effect about 10 years ago after some angler concerns that too many large spawning walleye were being harvested. The thought was that these large females could produce more eggs and potentially increase natural reproduction in the St. Joseph River.

Since this regulation has been in effect, the DNR has kept track of harvest through creel census and has analyzed natural reproduction by stocking only marked fish into the system. Results of these studies show that harvest of large fish has not changed with the regulation and that natural reproduction has remained the same at 10% or less in the St. Joseph River. We do not feel that there is a stock-recruitment relationship on the St. Joe. There are plenty of mature fish in the system. The limiting factor is habitat and perhaps water quality.

In an effort to make regulations more consistent, the DNR is proposing to eliminate this regulation.

What do you think??

mr. wesley,

since that regulation has taken affect i personally have caught many more large(6lb+) eyes out of the system than before those regs took effect. not saying i strictly fish the joe for eyes but especially last year i noticed a boom in big walleyes caught not targeting that specific species. especially when fishing for smallmouth. what decision is made im sure will be right for the fishery. are there still walleyes being lip tagged by the dnr for study?

thanks,

mark

[Spanky]

Hey Jay, good to have ya here with us. I don't think it has made any difference to myself or the stakeholders in the area of the rule. I have always pushed to keep the regs as simple as possible.I haven't heard anything from the charter captains pertaining to the ruling, I'll try to gain some input .

;)

[Jay Wesley]

Mark,

Just so you and others know, the walleye that are stocked are marked with oxytetracycline. This puts a mark on the bones of the fish. The only way to see this mark is to kill the fish and analyze the ear bone with a black light.

You would not see a metal tag with this study. However, there are other studies in Lake Michigan basin that due use the metal jaw tags. Several have been tagged from the Muskegon River. Also, Indiana will often do a fin clip.

[Fishbone]

don't let public opinion (many ill-informed) make the decision, but thats just my .02

:yeahthat:

[Fishbone]

In an effort to make regulations more consistent, the DNR is proposing to eliminate this regulation.

What do you think??

This would be good.

[TheUrbanMustache]

Mark,

Just so you and others know, the walleye that are stocked are marked with oxytetracycline. This puts a mark on the bones of the fish. The only way to see this mark is to kill the fish and analyze the ear bone with a black light.

You would not see a metal tag with this study. However, there are other studies in Lake Michigan basin that due use the metal jaw tags. Several have been tagged from the Muskegon River. Also, Indiana will often do a fin clip.

good deal! any idea what studies they are doing on the muskegon with those tags? we caught 3 in '06 that had the lip tag on the joe. released 2 and kept one. all were healthy adults. gave the tag to nick at shamrock and he took the dimensions and wieght of the fish for the dnr.

also im sending a pm for something else.

mark

[Flyfisher]

lip tag
Mark...those Muskegon fish really circulate around Lake Michigan and its tribs. Had a great afternoon trolling many years ago on Lake Macatoilet and caught a 6, 9, and 11 in early August. The 9 had been lip-tagged in the Muskegon River near Croton Dam the previous March. There are a lot of big walleye in the big lake all summer...fish that only are caught when the lake rolls over and they head into the nearest harbor. If anyone could figure out how to catch walleyes consistently in Lake Michigan all summer they could probably make a fortune by writing a book on it:lol:

[Spanky]

Mark...those Muskegon fish really circulate around Lake Michigan and its tribs. Had a great afternoon trolling many years ago on Lake Macatoilet and caught a 6, 9, and 11 in early August. The 9 had been lip-tagged in the Muskegon River near Croton Dam the previous March. There are a lot of big walleye in the big lake all summer...fish that only are caught when the lake rolls over and they head into the nearest harbor. If anyone could figure out how to catch walleyes consistently in Lake Michigan all summer they could probably make a fortune by writing a book on it:lol:

Thats if you could get them to say anything about it!:rolleyes: There are a few guys who are very consistant at getting big eyes almost all year long, but they are rarely seen, and are pretty tight lipped about it. Definately an untapped fishery for the most part.

[TheUrbanMustache]

Mark...those Muskegon fish really circulate around Lake Michigan and its tribs. Had a great afternoon trolling many years ago on Lake Macatoilet and caught a 6, 9, and 11 in early August. The 9 had been lip-tagged in the Muskegon River near Croton Dam the previous March. There are a lot of big walleye in the big lake all summer...fish that only are caught when the lake rolls over and they head into the nearest harbor. If anyone could figure out how to catch walleyes consistently in Lake Michigan all summer they could probably make a fortune by writing a book on it:lol:

fact...ask gomer about his "chasing" alewifes one steamy night:lol:

[walleyeman2006]

most of the reproduction happens with samller fish.....once a walleye gets around 7 pounds or so the reproductive tract has basically worn out allthough those big hogs have a lot more eggs the viability of the eggs goes down.......slot limits make for trophy fishing but dont help with reporduction...ive been researching this topic for years....

for numbers.... taking the big hens might even help as it would leave more males to the smaller females with viable eggs.....it sure seems that way over here (saginaw bay)......

[casscityalum]

Agree with Walleyeman...The bay is top notch for fish production right now and no size restraints

[hypox]

Any walleye that big in the Joe tastes like dirt anyways. I'm not sure why anyone would want to keep one that big unless it's going on the wall?

[Flyfisher]

Any walleye that big in the Joe tastes like dirt anyways.
Not to say that I encouraging the keeping of large walleyes but most of the larger fish caught in the Joe below Berrien, Kzoo, Grand, Lake Mac, Muskegon Lake, etc. actually spend a great deal of time in the open waters of Lake Michigan and I wouldn't hesitate to keep several 24", or even 26" fish for the table. These fish are not growing in excess of 23" spending all their time in the Joe.

[KWB]

One thing I will say is that the rule likely brings in more people. When people see a fishery being managed like that, they immediately think there has to be lots of trophy fish around. If you were to take this rule away, people are likely to think the fishery no longer has these big fish. Living here in Berrien Springs and fishing the Joe more than most, I can tell you that the Walleye fishery brings more anglers to this town than anything during the Winter months and early Spring. This Winter alone I have seen dozens of different vehicles from Ohio, South Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, and many many other states. All here to fish for Walleye. Many more anglers than I have seen here to fish for steelhead. They stay here for several days, spending their money in this town, and if it was not for these anglers, the river would have been basically void of people this Winter. Talking with many of them, they were here for one thing, and that was a true trophy fish. They could care less about anything under 28" one group stated to me. From the size of the baits they were running, I doubt they could have caught anything smaller.

So while this rule may not matter scientifically, it definitely does matter in many other ways. As you know Jay, it doesn't matter what you tell the public for the most part, it's how they gauge something from their initial impression that matters. They see this rule as an extra effort by the DNR, and they see it as an indicator that if you can only keep one fish over that size limit, then there must be a lot around that size. So if it isn't helping or hurting anything scientifically, but is more than likely helping out an economy and bringing more anglers to a system from far away places, then I don't see a reason to remove it.

Just another opinion on the matter, from someone who spends more time in the section of river this affects than probably anyone else on this board. In reality I could care less, they are a trash species in my eyes, just something that eats steelhead smolts like candy, but I have seen the amount of anglers they bring to the local economy and since there is no real scientific evidence supporting it either way, then why not go with the fact that the rule certainly intrigues people to want to come here and fish, spend their money here, thus doing what your job is really intended to do, boosting the economy while keeping the environments best interest at hand. The more interest you have in the local environment, the more support you have to protect it, the more money it brings in, the more support you are going to have to protect it, thus making your job easier and allowing you to do more for the environment...

Do you think the flies only section of the PM would have half as much use if it wasn't a special regulations zone? I think not... When anglers see a special regulation, they immediately think it has to be a spectacular or special fishery worth extra protection, thus making them more interested in it. I am not for special regs that cater to special interest groups such as flies only, but a regulation such as this is not catering to anything except the environment for the reasons I have already stated. You have told me straight up in previous discussions that no matter what, the Joe would never see an increase in natural reproduction due to the amount of silt in the water choking the eggs out of oxygen. So since this is true, then this regulation doesn't matter either way scientifically. So why not leave it and get the benefits that is is giving the local economy and environment by gaining the interest of more anglers to the fishery???

I stand behind whatever the MDNR chooses. I can see both sides, it would simplify things by removing it, but I honestly think it brings more interest to the area. Many anglers are going to be against it because of that. I only care about finding ways to bring the absolute most amount of support to the local environment. When the local environment can bring in extra revenue, it certainly will have more support. The great thing about this is, that the local environment is not really being damaged for this benefit unlike so many other things in this World where in order to make revenue, the environment pays a price...

[KWB]

Hey Jay, good to have ya here with us. I don't think it has made any difference to myself or the stakeholders in the area of the rule. I have always pushed to keep the regs as simple as possible.I haven't heard anything from the charter captains pertaining to the ruling, I'll try to gain some input .

;)

You will not get any reliable information there. By removing the rule, they will have the ability to not have to toss some of the bigger fish back. Thus being able to limit out faster, and return to the dock faster. They will have more big fish for their photos on their websites. I could go on and one why the Charter Captains would want this lifted without ever stopping to think about the health of the fishery or anything else...

[Spanky]

I didn't Know Jay was on the chamber of commerce!:rolleyes:

How do you know all these anglers are fishing for walleye not steelhead?

All those states you listed have many trophy walleye fisheries, I doubt they drive to the St Joe river for just trophy walleyes.

I believe the regulation was started to promote a trophy fishery. The data has shown that there is no differences in size since the reg went into effect, so therefore it really isn't needed. I don't think it has anything to do with natural reproduction.

I also think to base our regs on economical impact would not be in the best interest to the fishery or the anglers. Thats what his job really is, not to bring money to your town. Thats the mayor and city councils job.;)

I would also like to welcome you to this forum and to say that your opinions are just as important as mine or anyone elses. I am not trying to rag on ya.

[KWB]

Spanky,

If people don't use the resources, the resources lose funding, jobs in the DNR get cut and programs lose funding. I would say Jay's job has a pretty direct relation with who is using the resources and bet he will tell you the same thing. The choices he and his coworkers make, have some very serious affects on a whole wide variety of things. Local economies being one of them.

If you can't tell who is Walleye fishing and who is steelhead fishing, get your eyes checked bud. Just to put you at ease though, I have literally spoken with these people...

He asked for opinions, I gave mine based on actually being on the river "I sleep 30 feet from it every night". I meant no disrespect to anyone. I speak with Jay often and know he has the fisheries best interest at hand...

[Spanky]

It's all good.

I guess my main point is, the rules and regulations are not an advertisement for our fishery. People will come and fish there whether it says there is a special regulation or not, and if that regulation is omitted from the next published handbook, I seriously doubt it will change anyones mind about comming and fishing the joe. If it is omitted, its not gonna change anything except simplify the rules for the anglers, especially the ones from out of state.:)

[KWB]

I believe people look at those things in determining where they fish. The way a fishery is managed is the single biggest indicator of what type of fishery it is going to be in many peoples eyes. Especially a person who is searching for a new place to fish. You said it yourself, why would all those people be coming from those states to fish below Berrien Springs Dam for Walleye?

Just my opinion, I don't want to argue, that was not the intention of any of my posts. I certainly was not bashing Jay or the DNR as I stand behind them 100%. Jay allows me to bother him with all kinds of questions I have all the time about the fishery here on the Joe and I know that he has his head and heart in the right place. Just merely expressing a view that many people had never thought about. No one person can ever have all the answers. I certainly don't, but feel these are some pretty good points I have brought up here. What is done with them is beyond me and will not be second guessed by me...

[Spanky]

I would also like to welcome you to this forum and to say that your opinions are just as important as mine or anyone elses. I am not trying to rag on ya.

no argument from me. just different thoughts.:)

[KWB]

That's the beautiful thing about free thought, one can have his own path of thinking. Many times they may end up at the same destination. If we all thought the same way, many great things would never have been experienced or accomplished...

Good fishing,

Kory