What kills more deer? Wolves or Bobcats?

[Zorba]

I've been talking to some friends of mine that are into bobcat hunting and trapping, and I am surprised at the amount of encounters they have with bobcats that have killed deer. They tell me that bobcats do in fact kill deer, and that it is quite common.

One of the guys that they hunt with is a well known hound hunter in the EUP that has well over 20 years experience hunting bobcats and other predators with hounds,and has told them that bobcats not just take down fawns. He has witnessed large bucks that have been killed by bobcats..

They tell me that allot of bobcats hang around the deer yards and take down deer.

This surprises me.. I would think that bobcats are more of a small game type predator taking game such as hares and partridges..But, according to these guys, I'm wrong. They say, if you want to find bobcats? Look at the deer yards.

This has me thinking.. What kills more deer.. Wolves or bobcats???

[glockman55]

Percentages, Lets say 20 Wolves vs 20 Bob Cats.. The obvious answer would be Wolves. You think these Guys were pulling you chain just a little?:lol:

[uptracker]

Wolves....by far.

The only reason the cats are in the yards is because of the abundance of hares, pat, mice, squirrels etc. and the well packed trails the deer leave. Sure, they kill deer...mostly the weak ones, but not in big numbers.

There was a study done on this some time back and it was published in a "Scholar" book. LSSU has a copy of it. It was with all the Wildlife Research books and had some type of similar name.

Coyotes also follow the deer to the yards with the same ambition. Whereas, cats usually stick to the high ground and beaver swamps until the snow flies.

[HunterHads]

Sonds like a tale you would hear only in the UP! :lol:

Wolves take down far more deer. I would say that most cats wont ever kill a deer in their life. Not to say that none do, but I believe most stick to the small game.

[orion]

The studies show that once a male bobcat reaches 40 lbs he will switch his diet to deer almost exclusively. These very large bobcats are quite rare though. They will not come close to competing with wolves as wolves diet is compromised mainly of deer. But in the same thought, wolves kill a lot less than cars and are a small fraction compared to what hunters kill.

[Luv2hunteup]

Would a picture help?

http://www.23mm.com/deer/bobcat.cfm

[TkP]

found this on pasty.com
http://pasty.com/discuss/messages/313/492.html#PN

Kind of looks like a lynx. Taken in Gay, Michigan. I remember seeing different pics of a bobcat killing a deer in the UP also, but cant find them right now.

[TkP]

Bear kill a ton of deer also, probably more than bobcat....

[uptracker]

Bear kill a ton of deer also, probably more than bobcat....

Agree....especially in the spring.

[swampbuck]

I read an article by that fellow who used to study the bear in the up, It claimed that bear killed 15% of fawns. That they would kill them, rip them open to get the milk out of the stomach and leave the rest.

[Zorba]

I know it sounds hard to believe, but they claim it's true... Like I said, this is a well respected guide who spends more time in the bush than alot of us will ever know. He wears out a pair of Iverson snowshoes each year following his dogs, and has the lung capasity of a athelete.

I guess the question would be ratio of wolves to bobcats?

Would a few wolves eat more than alot of cats.

If you want the name of the guide. PM me.

[lonetracker]

http://www.antigodailyjournal.com/full.php?id=7762

bet this cat has killed a few deer.i worked out of the same biulding as this guy when he was game warden in florence co wi.nice guy glad to see he is having fun in his retirement .
also i will second every thing uptracker said .was in a deer yard 2 days ago and saw more bobcat sighn than the rest of the swamps i have been in.found the remains of one cat killed rabbit and a deer a cat was feeding on,it was dead for a while and not much left so could not tell what killed it.

[TkP]

I read an article by that fellow who used to study the bear in the up, It claimed that bear killed 15% of fawns. That they would kill them, rip them open to get the milk out of the stomach and leave the rest.

Do you know where I can find that at?


Bear, 15% of fawns,
Coyotes, some%
Wolves, another %
Winter, a lot %
Talk about a rough life....:dizzy:

[Apple Knocker]

A few years back I was mowing out in my orchard, saw 2 eagles working on something in the alfalfa field next door. One was displaying some real aggressive head thrusts at something moving around on the ground, with the wings outstretched. When I walked over there later, I found the remains (barely anything left, hooves and head mostly) of a young fawn.

[orion]

A few years back I was mowing out in my orchard, saw 2 eagles working on something in the alfalfa field next door. One was displaying some real aggressive head thrusts at something moving around on the ground, with the wings outstretched. When I walked over there later, I found the remains (barely anything left, hooves and head mostly) of a young fawn.

Since you brought up Alfalfa field, we better include Haybines in that fawn kill percentage.

[northernhunt]

An average sized pack of wolves will need to eat a deer a day.

Not as many bobcats around.

[swampbuck]

Do you know where I can find that at?


Bear, 15% of fawns,
Coyotes, some%
Wolves, another %
Winter, a lot %
Talk about a rough life....:dizzy:

I wish I could remember the guys name. He did extensive studys of bear in the up, in the 60's or 70's. even followed them around. He wrote articles and maybe books about it. Maybe someone will come up with it.

Heres what the michigan bear management plan says about fawns...

Under certain conditions bears may actively hunt
for newborn white-tailed deer fawns. In north-central Minnesota, 86 percent of fawn deaths
from birth to 12 weeks of age were caused by predators and bears accounted for 29 to 36 percent
of the kills (Powell 2004). Bears in Pennsylvania accounted for 25 percent of fawn mortalities to
34 weeks of age (Vreeland 2002).

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Draft_Bear_Management_Plan_Public_Review_262883_7. pdf

[Pinefarm]

My guess is that F-150's alone kill more deer than wolves, coyotes, cats and bears combined. ;):D

[3fingervic]

Those were some great bobcat pics.

[uptracker]

I thought about this some more and was thinking that these guys are coming across a cache that multiple species are feeding off of. Maybe the deer was taken down by some other animal or died of stress/starvation and then was sent up the food chain from there.

I just don't see them coming across a bunch of bobcat killed deer on a regular basis.

[sourdough44]

I vote wolves kill more than bobcats. I was in the U.P. a few weeks ago, out in the bush. We saw where a deer was disabled by coyotes & while still alive it crawled 75+ yards in the snow, as it was munched on. It was a rather fresh kill. At the end of this path in the snow all was eaten or taken in pieces except the tail & some stomach matter. A pack of coyotes feasted on it. I think if I was a deer I'd take the hunter's bullet option.

[Luv2hunteup]

http://www.buckmasters.com/bm/Resources/Articles/tabid/135/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1502/Michigan-Begins-Fawn-Survival-Study.aspx

Michigan Begins Fawn Survival Study
From the Michigan DNR

-- The Department of Natural Resources today announced the start of a new research project in the Upper Peninsula. The project will investigate the role of predators, winter weather and habitat on white-tailed deer fawn survival. The study is being conducted in portions of Menominee and Delta counties.

DNR Wildlife Research Biologist Dr. Dean Beyer said deer survival is influenced by many factors including disease, predation, weather, habitat and hunter harvest.

“Winter weather and the intensity of timber harvesting historically have been important factors affecting deer numbers in the UP. The recovery of large predators and the potential role of predation on deer numbers have interested the DNR and sportspersons for a number of years,” Beyer said.

Researchers will capture pregnant white-tailed does during winter and attach radio transmitters that will signal when fawns are born. The newborn fawns will be captured during spring and fitted with radio-collars to study their survival and causes of death. Black bears, wolves, coyotes and bobcats also will be fitted with global positioning system collars to help researchers estimate the number of fawns killed by each species during the summer.

Researchers will investigate the role of winter weather and habitat quality on deer survival by analyzing fat content and other body condition indicators during late winter. Understanding the factors that affect white-tailed deer survival, and how they work together to influence deer predation, is important.

“We are very interested in obtaining the information from this study to help inform management decisions for both deer and predators,” said Beyer.

This study is a cooperative effort between the DNR and Mississippi State University. Funding is being provided by the Michigan Involvement Committee of Safari Club International, Safari Club International Foundation, and Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration funds. Additional support will be sought from local wildlife organizations.

The DNR is committed to the conservation, protection, management, use, and enjoyment of the state’s natural resources for current and future generations.

[Mitchell Ulrich]

Being a Taxidermist for close to 20 years and having mounted my fair share of Bobcats, I've seen first hand why these things weigh so much..they are nothing but bad attitude and muscle!

There is no doubt in my mind that Bobcats kill FAR more Deer than Wolfs do.

Mitch

[Zorba]

I had to call and get some more info on the topic because I had a few ? myself.

It seems that the cats tend to run on trails that parallel the deer runs looking for spots to ambush thier prey. They jump on the deer, digg in the claws, bite the deer in the neck, and hang on stuck like velcro.

The deer has to fight for its life to get the cat off.

Thats how they do it.

[lonetracker]

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=953&pictureid=6806
was out cat hunting again today and came across this deer i believe was killed by a bobcat.for sure a bobcat fed on iy for the last 2 days.pretty much the hole upper side from the base of the neck to the hindquarter is eatin.the cat covered the deer back up with the deers own hair,you can see the swipe marks from his paws on the left of the picture,these were all the way around the deer.it snowed on tues.and since then there were no tracks other than cat tracks and deer tracks around the deer nore were the crows on it yet.it was a small deer,i think maybe an allmost 1yr old.there was no sign of a struggle,but i believe it was killed not long before the snow on tues.i took the femure home and cut it in half to check the marrow,it was red but not very jellylike .red and jellylike,and not full indicates a probable winter kill.(not an expert here,please add more info if you know)so this deer was ,i believe pretty stressed but died with a little help from a cat.his average track was 2.25inches wide.any one know about how heavy that makes him?
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=953&pictureid=6808

[BR549]

I had a U.S. Forestry truck pull up with 2 employees and a wolf biologist in it in the middle of guns season. The guy said, and I quote, "the wolves aren't chasing deer right now, their after the young beaver before everything freezes over". :rolleyes: I tried to keep a straight face while thinking that half the young hunters were doing the same as the wolves......;)

[M1Garand]

Animals evolve to exploit a certain niche. Bobcats niche is small/medium mammals and birds. Healthy adult deer are not a common prey item though on occasion I'm sure it happens. Deer taken are primarily fawns. There was a study a few years ago in Florida where 85% of deer preyed on by bobcat were fawns. And one thing to consider is how much smaller deer are there vs in MI. They will also readily scavage a carcass so that may lead some to believe with the sign around one that it's a bobcat kill when it could very easily be a deer that died by other means.

One wolf by comparison will consume 30-50 deer per year. So sure, bobcat on occasion take deer, but not to the level of wolves, which are an apex predator.