Lab help

[mikefde]

Well i just recently got a lab that was a year old. i have knowen this dog since he was a pup but i have been having problems with him. He wont listen still pee's in the house and if i let him off his chain he takes off for a cruize around the neiborhood. i have been working with this dog for over a month now and i dont see any results happening. i scold him and he acts like iam beating him or something. this is the first dog i have ever owned. i have been using his leash alot when i let him out and i try to make him sit before and after he comes in the house. once i let him in he runs around like a wild dog and then settles down. does anybody have any suggestions for a first time dog owner? any training tips for a year old dog?

[Pat Eddinger]

Mike,
Everything just sounds about normal for a dog that thinks he's in control.
Get an Innotek training collar,it will run around $150.00.Set it on the lowest setting.
Use it for negative reinforcement,and lots of praise and mutt lovin' on the positive side.I have a Female that was a bit of a handful at that age and required lots of work.Some can be stubborn,it's a sign of intelligence I think.
Now that she's 8 she's mellow as can be indoors.She still gets a refresher course on the collar now and again,just keep her honest.
Your dog thinks it's in control,and there's nothing you can do to catch him,or stop him.
That will change.
Good luck!
Pat

[LabGuy]

First, An electronic training collar SHOULD NOT be used by anyone that doesn't have a lot of experience. You may hear stories of how well they worked in certain situations, but usually any training induced by the collar was due to the fact that the button was ACCIDENTALLY pushed at the correct moment. They can do much more harm than good, and can actually ruin an otherwise good dog.

You haven't supplied enough information to solve your problem.

You say you have known the dog his entire life? Did the breeder have a housebreaking problem with this dog?

Have you had the dog checked by a Vet to confirm that the problem is not physical?

How did you originally housebreak this dog when he arrived at your house?

How long is he "On His Chain"?

How much time do you spend with him each day?

It sounds like your dog does not understand what you want of him. Maybe we can help solve the problem!

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Cliff Cushard
Cushard's Kennel

[mikefde]

well the deal with the lab was i got it for an exgirlfriend she couldnt handle him so i ended up taking him from her a month ago he came from good stock. his eyes and hips checked out good with the vet. we crate trained him when he was a puppy but it didnt work that well i think iam not foresure he has separtion anxity i leave him in my basement all day since its been cold out and he chewed a hole through my door.i spend on a average of 4-6hrs with him everyday and he sleeps on the floor in front of my bed. the breeder said they had paper trained him with good results.i usually put him on his chain when i get home for atleast 2 hours he barks the whole time almost. he is a great dog with good potental i just dont know where to start it seems everything i have tried doesnt work.
Originally posted by LabGuy:
First, An electronic training collar SHOULD NOT be used by anyone that doesn't have a lot of experience. You may hear stories of how well they worked in certain situations, but usually any training induced by the collar was due to the fact that the button was ACCIDENTALLY pushed at the correct moment. They can do much more harm than good, and can actually ruin an otherwise good dog.

You haven't supplied enough information to solve your problem.

You say you have known the dog his entire life? Did the breeder have a housebreaking problem with this dog?

Have you had the dog checked by a Vet to confirm that the problem is not physical?

How did you originally housebreak this dog when he arrived at your house?

How long is he "On His Chain"?

How much time do you spend with him each day?

It sounds like your dog does not understand what you want of him. Maybe we can help solve the problem!

[Tom222]

The first thing to remember, is that your dog is only a year old. He's still like a child, and Pat is right, your dog needs to know that YOU are the one making the rules. Your dog is obviuosly sensitive to reprimand. Go easy with that. Don't lose your temper! Whatever you do, DO NOT use your hands in a punishing way! When the dog doesn't come when called, DO NOT punish him when you catch up with him. This will cause him to associate the command "come" with a negative response.
Pat had another good idea. Get an electronic collar, and use it to correct, not to punish. There are some good video tapes that will show you how to use it. Labguy is right, you can do a lot of harm if you use it at the wrong times. When you lose your temper, you will only be causing yourself and the dog a set back.
There are a number of good training books on the market, but being as all dogs are not the same, the first book that you grab may not be the correct course of action for you.
One of the books that I have read, is "Uncle Matty's Ultimate guide to Dog Traning".
What I really liked about the book, was the fact that he took into account that there are different personalities to deal with, and therefore, different methods of training.
One common thread in all the training books that I've read, is repetition. Before your dog can obey you, he must clearly understand what it is that you want from him.
As far as the peeing in the carpet goes, I would suggest that you get a crate big enough to comfortably hold your dog. If he is not used to a crate, he's gonna let you know (loudly) that he isn't happy in it. You need to out last him here. You may even need to move him to a part of the house where his complaining won't drive you nuts. A smart dog won't intentionally soil his crate.
Don't leave water out for him. Water him at regular intervals, and after he has had some, either watch him constantly, or let him out until he goes. As with all training, when he does something right, praise him!
Steam clean you carpet now. Make sure you include an odor remover. Buy a pet odor remover spray, and any time that he has an accident on the floor, clean it up and spray it down. If he smells a pee spot, it will remind him to pee there.
I realize that this is getting lengthy, so if you want to know which approach to take in training, I'll need to know the personality of your dog. There are some simple tests that will tell what approach to take. If you want, I can help you.
E-mail me at jjans@triton.net
I hope this was of some help.

[This message has been edited by Tom222 (edited 01-22-2001).]

[Huntress]

I am a firm believer in some basic obedience training for every dog. I would suggest looking into some obedience classes since you are a first time dog owner. A pet store could probably give you some information on local classes. I would be willing to help you, if I lived close enough. I trained and showed dogs through 4H and for several years after. Using a large crate to house your dog is a great suggestion, and will help in your training. Sounds like the dog is very unhappy about being put out on the chain, and he wants to be with you more than be outside. Do you have access to a fenced in area? If you do I would suggest letting the dog run free with you, romping and playing with him for half and hour or so. He would probably be much happier in this half hour than the 2 hours spent on the chain. He sounds like a very sensitive fellow, so one firm "No" or a "Bad Dog" is probably enough scolding when he makes a mistake. Give him alot of praise when he has done what you want him to do. Several "Good Dog" comments with a nice rub on the head will let him know he is pleasing you. Good Luck! :)

Best Regards,
Huntress

[LabGuy]

It appears that everyone is right on track in helping you!

First of all, I also recommend obedience training. It helps form the bond that you need between you and your dog. Check local kennel clubs for the available classes.

Next I think it is time to get back to crate training your dog. He should be in his crate if you are not watching him and he can't be in an outdoor kennel.

How long are you gone at work? Can you, or someone else make it home to let him out at lunchtime?

When you do get home, let him outside right away. Do not play with him, or make any sort of fuss until he is outside and has done his business. THEN, praise him and let him know that he has really pleased you by doing things correctly!

Then if possible spend some time with him right away instead of putting him "On His Chain".

I would also consider an outdoor run where you can confine your dog when he is outside and you have a safe place to play. This will prevent any roaming, and is certainly better that a chain!

If he was paper trained, does he still use paper inside? Maybe this is a source of confusion for him. If he still uses paper inside, try putting paper outside where you want him to go for a while. This will make it easier for him to understand what you want.

I am still against you using an electronic collar, but that is a choice you will have to make.

Good Luck!


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Cliff Cushard
Cushard's Kennel

[mikefde]

I really dont like the idea of a shock collar. The thing about crate training is he does everything in his power to get out. when the ex had him he literally ruined a wire cage trying to get out. Iam usually gone for 8 hours a day and i try to spend as much time with him at night as i can. i do like the idea of a runway i own 3 acres on the river so it is a ideal place he has tons of room.I have never thought of trying paper in the house or outside to see how he reacts. does anyone know of a good place to take a dog to obedience classes. i would eventally like to train this dog to pheasent hunt so maybe i could find a combination of both.
thanks everyone for your help...
mike

[Eastern Yooper]

1 year old is still very young, and unfortunately you are going to have to tolerate some more chewing and destructiveness for the next 6 mos or so.

The fact that the dog has recently moved-in with you is an important factor. Thats a really big change in his environment to deal with and he may still be getting used to it. It is common for males to mark 'their' new territory when they move to a different house.... but he shouldn't keep doing it. 1 year old is pretty old for a Lab to be still messing in the house.

2 hours outside isn't helping, either. Put him out, watch him, and AS SOON as he does his business, let him back in and give him a treat. Dogs are social animals and he wants to spend time with you when you get home. Put yourself in his shoes: Rover's home all alone for hours, and when his best buddy finally arrives, Rover has to wait yet another 2 hours in the cold before he gets to be around his master.

And to echo the others: I'd vote against the electronic collar; that should be reserved for only the most extreme cases. Your dog isn't even close to being there, and employing a shock collar at this stage of the game could result in problems you'll never be able to fix.

Keep working with him, he'll come around!

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http://w1.511.telia.com/~u51102888/others/people/indian.gif

VEGETARIAN: Indian word meaning 'Bad Hunter'

[song_dog_slammer]

Mike. Very true dogs are social. A technique I have used sucessfuly in the past with my lab,"madison"is: When your dogs need disciplne hold him still in times when he really need to "get the point" hold his throat firmly without choking of course. This will help to establish you as the alpha male, in the pack when a subordinate needs disciplne the alpha will imobilize him and control his head throat area. I have found this works well, very well. 1 yr is still a pup before Madison was two she ruined: A queen size bed, dresser, carpet in the living room, and my brand new oak french door. SO please be patient, never ever strike your dog and spend time with him alot of time. Once I used the imobilzation technique madison became much easier to handle in the yard, on a leash and in the field. A good Lab is worth his weight in gold. I love you Madison!

[mikefde]

the first night i brought him home he was peeing everywhere. i was like what iam i getting myself into. He chew on anything he tore the filter out of my furnace. he chewed up a broom you name it.he has 2 chew bones he hardly ever touches i think it has something to do with wood. is it bad to leave him a large stick or something? i have had him a month now and iam very attached to him hes like my best friend always happy to see me. there is one thing i have learned from all this... having a dog is a big responsility.....but worth it....

[This message has been edited by mikefde (edited 01-23-2001).]

[song_dog_slammer]

MIKE-Madison likes to run through the yard with very big sticks. Her favroite game is " stick." I too live on a river and Maddy likes to retrieve stick from the water. This seams to sooth her need to chew while we practice retrieves. She once brought stick into the house,.............. then I bought new lamps. (laughing loudly) All of teh furniture I lost to her was made from wood.

Another thing I have used to "unwind" Madison was to take her for a truck ride. I think the neighbor hood smells help to release some excitement. We never drove very far, she always likes a ride, and it got her used to the scent in her area which is a good homing device if she ever wanders off.
Please BE patient spend time with him. Some times when Madison would be napping I'd lay next to her so I could pet and be near her, much like other dogs in a pack. I know that sound way wierd but it helps to be able to act socially in a manner that is instictive to her. I have a friend who is a acomplished horse trainer he uses audible sound and a touching technique that horses use socially in a group. One can never beat inteligence or true loyalty into and animal.

[Tom222]

OK Mike, you did the roll over test, the social attraction test, and the hand shy test. As I told you in the E-mail, I've never done this with out actually seeing the dog myself, but the in roll over test you said that your dog didn't struggle, and was compliant. This tells me that you have a responsive dog. That's good. He will look to you for his direction.
In the social attraction test, it sounds as if your dog was a bit hesitant, and a bit timid, but he did come to you. This tells me he tends to have a shy personality
The hand shy test is what concerns me. You said that under a raised hand, your dog squinted and cowered. You said that you have never hit the dog, so I'm left to believe that your ex girlfriend probably lost her temper with the dog, and hit him.
I'm not opposed to using a training collar on dogs. I've used them on strong willed dogs and always used the low setting, and I have had good results. HOWEVER, I was taught to use one before I trained with one.
I would NOT recomend an E collar for a dog like yours. He is not srong willed.
From what you wrote me, I would say that your dog is a combo of shy and responsive.
Now it's time to undo what's been done to him.
You need to use a gentle approach in training. Use lots of love and praise. It's time to build trust. Teach him that your hand will deliver love and affection, and NEVER pain. When you give him treats, let him see the treats in your hand, then raise your hand above his head. This will recondition him to see the raised hand as a good thing, and not something to fear.
Your verbal corrections should be quiet and firm. No yelling.
As the others wrote, get away from the chain. If you need to let him out unattended for a few minutes, that's ok, but no prolonged periods.
Get another crate. Extra large for a lab. Don't go cheap, get something sturdy. Put one of your old shirts in there (unwashed) He will end up ripping it up, but it will have your scent on it, and it will reduce his anxiety somewhat.
The crate will speed up the house breaking process, as will watering him at regular intervals.
Spend lots of time with him. Play fetch, and wear him out.
I tend to shy away from sticks. A splinter in the digestive track can be fatal! Most animal supply stores carry rubber dummies.
Go to the book store and pick out a good training book. I personally like "SPEED TRAIN YOUR OWN RETRIEVER" by Larry Mueller. It's published by Stackpole books.
Build trust, and be patient.
Repetition is the key to training.
Good luck!