The 'No Zone'

[explodingvarmints]

Anyone ever heard, or had experience with this? I have heard more then just a few times of a somewhat high hit that's just a shade behind the boiler room. Sorta just, and I mean just below the vertabre. All of the stories seem the same.... arrow broke off about 6 to 8 inches from the tip of the head, very sparse blood for the first 10 to 40 yards, deer bolts then walks within sight, flood gates open up for a while, then dry up fast. Usually ending in a lost deer. Am I nuts to think that that many people could have experienced this, or do I just know too many story tellers/ less then great hunters? All of the tales I've been told thus far have been with either Rage mechanicals, Spitfires, or Snypers. (I shoot mechanicals, so this is not a mechanical vs. fixed blade thing.)

[Lwapo]

Well, I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt that it's a common occurance.

Most broadheads have a 1.5" or so cutting diameter which means that a shot would have to pass PERFECTLY between the vitals and spine, without cutting either or hitting any veins/arterys, etc.

My guess is that MOST (not all, but prolly 99%) of them are just excuses for a piss-poor shot. It's usually so that the shooter can go home and feel a little better about the animal that he shot (tortured) and couldn't recover.

IMO - Misses happen in archery. They do. But they are WAY WAY too common. Most are caused by buck fever, people taking shots they shouldn't take, and not enough time on the shooting range.

Just my $0.02.

[November Sunrise]

Anyone ever heard, or had experience with this? I have heard more then just a few times of a somewhat high hit that's just a shade behind the boiler room. Sorta just, and I mean just below the vertabre. All of the stories seem the same.... arrow broke off about 6 to 8 inches from the tip of the head, very sparse blood for the first 10 to 40 yards, deer bolts then walks within sight, flood gates open up for a while, then dry up fast. Usually ending in a lost deer. Am I nuts to think that that many people could have experienced this, or do I just know too many story tellers/ less then great hunters? All of the tales I've been told thus far have been with either Rage mechanicals, Spitfires, or Snypers. (I shoot mechanicals, so this is not a mechanical vs. fixed blade thing.)

Here's a thread that details a similar experience:
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256719&highlight=corn

[William H Bonney]

Anyone ever heard, or had experience with this? I have heard more then just a few times of a somewhat high hit that's just a shade behind the boiler room. Sorta just, and I mean just below the vertabre. All of the stories seem the same.... arrow broke off about 6 to 8 inches from the tip of the head, very sparse blood for the first 10 to 40 yards, deer bolts then walks within sight, flood gates open up for a while, then dry up fast. Usually ending in a lost deer. Am I nuts to think that that many people could have experienced this, or do I just know too many story tellers/ less then great hunters? All of the tales I've been told thus far have been with either Rage mechanicals, Spitfires, or Snypers. (I shoot mechanicals, so this is not a mechanical vs. fixed blade thing.)

I had it happen to me personally,, with a slug at about 25 or 30 yards. Hence, my dislike for slugs on anything in close. Nuttin' but buckshot for me...:evil:

[explodingvarmints]

While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with some as well. The folks I'm talking about are decent hunters..... Not Chuck Adams, but decent hunters. The Thread that November Sunrise posted kinda reinforced that there is indeed a place that is called the "No Zone", or as I've heard called the "Void". All I know is that they are an amazing animal, and I'd drop like a box of rocks if I was hit in my foot, much less close to my vitals. Anyone else???

Well, I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt that it's a common occurance.

Most broadheads have a 1.5" or so cutting diameter which means that a shot would have to pass PERFECTLY between the vitals and spine, without cutting either or hitting any veins/arterys, etc.

My guess is that MOST (not all, but prolly 99%) of them are just excuses for a piss-poor shot. It's usually so that the shooter can go home and feel a little better about the animal that he shot (tortured) and couldn't recover.

IMO - Misses happen in archery. They do. But they are WAY WAY too common. Most are caused by buck fever, people taking shots they shouldn't take, and not enough time on the shooting range.

Just my $0.02.

[kcfishin]

I believe that there is a shot that is less than lethal, yet looks like a decent shot. I made a shot on a buck last year. He was at 20 yards walking broadside. I grunted, he stopped, I shot. I shot perfect as far as front to back, but hit him pretty high, but below the spine. Big drops of blood on the ground and wiped on trees for 40 yards, the arrow came out at 40 yards, then the blood went to nothing in 10 yards after that. A neighbor hunter heard the deer run past him (which was 200 yards from me). He said the deer was still running and did not go down. We looked all morning and found no sign.

My two cents is that it was in the "no zone". Although I guess he could have curled up in the briars and died. Not really sure, but I know I was sick about it.

On the comment that there are way too many misses... I believe that good hunters miss and bad hunters miss more. A neigboring hunter was all over me last year because he saw a buck walking around with an arrow in his buttcheek. He started quizzing me on what kind of arrows I shoot. After I showed him that the arrow with orange fletches wasn't mine, he backed off. I was turned off by this guy. What if it would have been me. Do you think people intentionally shoot deer in the rear? Something probably went bad with someones shot, it happens...

[RedM2]

I am thinking I lost a real nice buck earlier this year in this manner. Appeared to be an excellent shot, but the arrow didn't pass through which left me very confused. I couldn't pick-up a blood trail for the first 75-100 yards. At this point (75-100yds) the blood trail almost instantly got really heavy. Kinda like a hose. I tracked the deer for another 200+yds and suddenly the blood trail went from, "He's got to be only few steps ahead b/c he's bleeding so hard," to "The blood trail instantly stopped, what the @#$*, I can't find this deer." I looked all over the woods for another 4 hours...empty handed! :confused:

BTW, I was using the G5 Tekken II (spelling?). Great broadheads!


Anyone ever heard, or had experience with this? I have heard more then just a few times of a somewhat high hit that's just a shade behind the boiler room. Sorta just, and I mean just below the vertabre. All of the stories seem the same.... arrow broke off about 6 to 8 inches from the tip of the head, very sparse blood for the first 10 to 40 yards, deer bolts then walks within sight, flood gates open up for a while, then dry up fast. Usually ending in a lost deer. Am I nuts to think that that many people could have experienced this, or do I just know too many story tellers/ less then great hunters? All of the tales I've been told thus far have been with either Rage mechanicals, Spitfires, or Snypers. (I shoot mechanicals, so this is not a mechanical vs. fixed blade thing.)

[Fur-minator]

I would rather miss low than take a chance high.:idea:

[QuackerWhacker]

I would rather miss low than take a chance high.:idea:

Yup. High shots end up in a lost deer more times than not.

[Bushbow]

NO VOID - it is not real and this has been all over the web on every forum for years. I have pics and imformation to prove it but it takes to long and is already out there. Lungs are inside a vacume and fill the whole space continuosly. Rib cage expands and shrinks while the lungs continue to completely fill the space. No void - most "void" shots are actually above the spine. there is about 6 inches of meat and hair(Back strap) above the spine over the vitals. This is tough to pass through and many times void hitters are "Shocked" their arrow did not go right through like it should? Another clue as to where it was hit.

Anyway - it's not there. Ask a medical professional or better yet a Veteranerian. I did.

Bob Urban

[OTIS]

On a tv show they disproved the theory of the "no Zone" Said that the major arteries and such are to close to the spine and a broadhead can not go under the spine and not sever something lethal. I forget which show it was (as i WATCH WAY TO MUCH TV).

[oldrank]

I believe the "no zone" is an above the spine shot and that is why the deer is not recovered.

[November Sunrise]

I believe the "no zone" is an above the spine shot and that is why the deer is not recovered.

Based on what you and Bushbow and Otis are saying, along with the visual evidence of the above the spine shot from the other thread that was linked to, that makes good sense. The "void" is actually above the spine, and that area above the spine is larger than I would have guessed. Never really thought much about it I suppose.

Interesting and informative thread.

[Sam22]

Hmmmm.. I have to pipe up and say in my experience there is defineatly a no zone. Hit it last weekend actually. Friend of mine works as a guide in a high fence, they shoot deer by the dozen. Even with high power rifles, a little high, and the deer doesn't die. I was fairly sure it wasn't above the spine, I could be wrong with that, but the spot is there one way or the other.

[just tryin to fish]

i am a firm beliver that there is a no zone dad shot a deer a while back and hit it high but not to high following drops of blood 2 days later shot and killed the same deer and the arrow went under the spine and this big doe came back in very wary but it was the same on

[OTIS]

The "void" is actually above the spine, and that area above the spine is larger than I would have guessed.
Interesting and informative thread.

You could be spot on.

[farmlegend]

I've read this stuff about there being no void zone, and I don't buy it.

Two years ago, while hunting from the ground, I launched an arrow at an adult doe. It hit high, just above the boilerroom, and it appeared to be just below the spine. The arrow did notmake a complete pass through, and I watched her walk off with the arrow in her, the feathers still visible on the side she was shot on, and the broadhead visible on the exit side.

45 minutes later, I saw her again, munching on wheat to my east, and she still had the arrow in her. She didn't appear to have a care in the world. I remember thinking that I wish I had a photo of this, as it was "void zone exhibit A".

FWIW, I do use a 2-blade broadhead, and I suppose it could have slipped through her with the blades parallel to the ground. Wouldn't need much room to do so.

[T-Bone0717]

I had a similar thing happen to me a few years back. Had a nice 10 pt come in about an hour before dark. Seen him for 5-7 minutes before he offered a shot and he never knew I was there. He was walking broadside at 17 yards and I whistled and he stopped. Made a shot and he bolted. Knew I hit him so we waited half hour and started trackin. No blood for approx. 50 yards then there was blood everywhere. Looked like someone was taking red paint and throwing on the ground and trees. This lasted for about 40-50 yards then nothing. Like he just disapeared. Came back the next morning and searched all day and found nothing. I just hope he didnt go somehwere and die to never be found.

[Joe Archer]

...a somewhat high hit that's just a shade behind the boiler room. Sorta just, and I mean just below the vertabre...
The shot you are describing could hit nothing but muscle. The lumbar or back muscles are pretty thick and dense. If you were behind the diaphragm, even if you exited below the lumbar muscles it would still be a low percentage kill shot. Basically, your only chance of a quick recover with a flesh wound as you describe would be to hit muscle low enough so that you enter the body cavity (abdominal in this case) and hit the aorta; in most cases you would have to hit the lower edge of the near back muscle, to get through it and clip the aorta.
In any case, it would be a very low percentage shot with a high liklihood of a deer recovering and a very low liklihood of putting this deer in your freezer.
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[FREEPOP]

Had the experience this year. Nephew called and said he hit a deer. Went to join him and he showed me the video. He didn't get the hit on video but did get the buck after his first sprint and a good view of the exit. The buck was 30 yards out and he shot for 35. He said the hit was a little high on the entrance, the exit was on the upper edge of perfect, windage was perfect, the arrow was intact and fell out on the initial sprint. In the video the deer sprinted to about 120 yards and stopped, about 1-2 tablspoons of blood came out and ran down his side. The deer then licked the blood and that was the end of the trail, no more bleeding except for a couple of drops 200 yards away. We searched all the bedding areas for 400+ yards in every direction.

A couple of years ago I shot a buck that had a broadhead sticking out of it's right shoulder. Upon skinning, I found a broadhead that was low in the scapula, that had grown in from the year before and no evidence of the arrow or path. A sharp downward angle would've deflected that arrow, IMO

Strange things happen.

[Skibum]

Based on what you and Bushbow and Otis are saying, along with the visual evidence of the above the spine shot from the other thread that was linked to, that makes good sense. The "void" is actually above the spine, and that area above the spine is larger than I would have guessed. Never really thought much about it I suppose.

Interesting and informative thread.


I think you are right. I've seen an awful lot of deer taken over the years that had evidence of previous wounds there. High shots are generally bad news.

[On Target]

I agree that it is better to shoot low than hi. I've always aimed at the middle of the body up/down. I shot an 8 point last year exactly where I aimed and caught him perfect midway up/down. The deer dropped right where I thought he did, but there was not much blood, and upon dressing him I noticed that I was only 1" from the top of both lungs. This has made me rethink on where I should aim. My goal now is to aim at the 1/3 distance up from bottom. Myself and friends have lost deer in the past and blamed it on only getting briscuit, so I guess that you have to find what works for you based on the awareness of the deer.

[don]

2 charts showing everything you need to, and should know.

http://www.rubsnscrapes.com/Articles/deer_shot_placement_anatomy.php

http://www.deerhunting.ws/deeranatomy.htm

[Mightymouse]

I think the problem with hits that are high in the vitals but below the spine is that they are often one lung hits (or the very top of both lungs). That type of hit may not produce a lot of external blood to provide a blood trail to follow. Also, a deer that suffers from small cuts or knicks to the lungs can live a long time, or in some cases not die from the wound. Even a deer that takes a solid hit to just one lung can cover a whole lot of ground before expiring and not leave much blood to follow.

Having seen pictures on the internet before showing internal organ placement I don't think it is possible to hit above the lungs and below the spine. Another issue that leads to the "void" theory is that most people think the spine is higher up in the body than it actually is so shots that are just above the spine are actually percieved as being just below the spine.

People shooting bow's from treestands will generally hit a touch higher than where they are actually aiming. That being said, I always aim for the lower 1/3 and if I miss a bit high I am in the lungs still.

[Chasin]

Funny that everyone that says No Zone have simply not hit one there.... YET..

I does exist.. I hit a buc several years ago with my bow at a distance of about 2 yrds.
Saw the arrow go through then proceeded to track him and watch him go about 2 mi before calling it quits...

Moral of the story. AIM LOW>>>

[unclecbass]

I had this happen to me a while back, Shot looked great, I thought for sure it was a doubble lunger but it hit the void, below the spine for sure, I saw the same buck later in the season with the marks where the arrow went in and out. Just pure amazig luck that this bugger lived. I am a firm believer in the no zone. When it happens to you it will puzzle you as well.

[Joe Archer]

There are a lot of ways to fling an arrow at a deer that leads to wounding and non-recovery. That is why we should always aim to stay between the shoulders and the liver, and always take shots with high percentage of passing through both lungs.
Verbiage like "No Zone" becomes irrelevant when you put a broadhead through both lungs... It is simply the "DEAD ZONE".
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