Brass Failure?

[BW]

Hi Folks,

Well, maybe the subject shouldn't be "brass failure", rather "handloader failure". Here's the story...

I loaded up some 300 Win Mag rounds awhile back, and finally went to the range to shoot them. I knew the brass was getting "tired" as I had used it several times. So, I loaded a light load of powder, with some Speer 180gr boat-tails. I was planning on using these rounds as practice rounds, for shooting "off-hand". I normally shoot 200gr Nolser Partitions while hunting, so the reduced recoil would have been a plus! :-)

Well, the first round went downrange fine, and as is my practice, I inspected the case before I even checked through the spotting scope to see where I hit the target. I noticed that ever so faint line, just a bit above the belt, where "case-head seperation" occurs. It was very faint though, so I shot again. This time the line was more evident. Finally (okay I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed) the third round showed true case-head seperation, but no black mark that shows where gas actually escaped.

That was enough! I stopped shooting that batch of ammo, and will pull the bullets. I noticed that I wasn't getting the accuracy I had gotten before with this combo. I'm wondering if the case-head seperation played a part in that?

Have any of you seen a chamber that was ruined through "gas cutting", by a brass failure? I didn't get to that point, just was curious.

The good news for the day, is that my 220gr Partiton/RL25 powder load I worked up, is shooting darn near M.O.A.! Certainly good enough for hunting!



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Brian
The 416 Taylor WebPage! (http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/)

[Benchshooter]

BW
Wow I haven't seen that yet..How many times have you loaded those cases? Sounds like you have shot them more then enough times..I have been reloading 300 rounds for about a year.

At what yardage did that load shoot a M.O.A. the 220 gr. how many grs. did you use?

Happy shooting

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Benchman

[Sarge]

Ok, humor the new guy. What is M.O.A.

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Sarge

[BW]

Benchman,

I'm using 76.0 grains of RL25 with 220gr Partitions. Here is the information Alliant Powder sent me, when I ask them for some load data. I hope it format's correctly...

Hornady 220 gr RN
Max charge wt. 77.7 grs 2768 fps 60,300 psi
Rem case, Fed. 215 primer, tested OAL 3.326 in.

Naturally, I started lower, at 74gr of powder, then switched to this load. I'm happy enough with the results, and probably will stop here. I don't care to push the pressure envelope for a fraction on an inch more accuracy. I was shooting at 100 yards, and got a group that measures 1.5" from outside edge to outside edge. Like I said, it's nearly 1 moa, not really moa.

It is more than accurate enough for the type of deer hunting I do around here, and still provide it's secondary function of being "bear medicine" in case I run into something bigger!

I've experience near casehead seperation before. I really need to quit using old brass! :-) I also use once (okay maybe twice) fired brass, and full-length resize my hunting ammo.

Take Care!

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Brian
The 416 Taylor WebPage! (http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/)

[BW]

Sarge,

I dont' know all the scientific stuff, but M.O.A. (minute of angle) equates to nearly 1 inch at 100 yards. It's an "angle". So 1 M.O.A. equals nearly two inches at 200 yards, 3 inches at 300 yards, etc. If my load shoots 2 moa, then it would be 2 inches at 100 yards, 4 inches at 200 yards, etc.

Clear as mud? :-) Hopefully Benchman can clear it up better than me!

Take Care!



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Brian
The 416 Taylor WebPage! (http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/)

[Ricciardelli]

Sportsman...

Minute of angle (MOA) refers loosely by shooters as an inch at 100 yards. It is, more accurately, the distance of a line that is made from point A to point B of an angle of one minute of one degree at a distance of 100 yards. Sounds confusing? It really isn't. Take a circle who's radius is 100 yards around your shooting bench. This is also the distance at which you are shooting, muzzle to target. Now, we find out the circle's diameter by multiplying the radius (100 yards) by 2, this gives us 200 yards. Next, we multiply the diameter (200 yards) by pi (3.14159) and this is equal to the circumference of the circle in yards (628.318 yards). Multiply the circle in yards by 3 to get the circumference of the circle in feet (1884.954 ft.) and multiply the circle in feet by 12 to get the circumference of the circle in inches (22619.448).

A circle is divided into 360 evenly spaced marks called degrees, each degree is divided into 60 evenly spaced marks called minutes, and each minute is divided into 60 evenly spaced marks called seconds. To get the total minutes in a circle multiply 360 by 60 and that gives us 21600 minutes.

Now we, divide the circumference of the circle in inches (22619.448) by the minutes of a circle (21600) and we get the inches in each minute of angle at a distance of 100 yards and it is 1.047196667 or rounding off 1.05 inches. The equation for this is: pi * (yardage * 2 * 3 * 12) / (360 * 60) = pi * (yardage * 2 * 3 * 12) / 21600 = pi * (yardage * 72) / 21600 = yardage * .01047196667 . By replacing the distance of 100 yards with what ever distance you are shooting at will give you the MOA at that yardage. If you prefer it to be in meters the equation will be pi * (meters * 2 * multiplier (100)) / 21600 and the multiplier of 100 turns the answer from meters into centimeters. If we wanted the answer to be in millimeters the multiplier would be 1000. Remember that one inch is equal to 2.54 centimeters and there is 12 inches per foot and 3 feet per yard and there are 100 centimeters in a meter. So, 100 / 2.54 will equal 39.37 inches per meter and that is 3.281 feet per meter and that make a 100 meters to be 328.1 feet and that comes out to be 109.4 yards in a 100 meters. Now, lets work a problem out in centimeters: 3.14159 * ( 100m * 2 *100) / 21600 = 3.14159 * (20000cm) / 21600 = 62831.8cm / 21600 = 2.90887963cm. For a millimeter you can work this one out but the answer should be 29.0887963mm, If you got that answer you understand MOA and the metric system.

That should muddy the waters even more...

As to the problem with the case deciding to become two pieces...yes, if the case breaks during firing, your accuracy will go to hell in a hand-bucket!

Why you are having these problems can be related to several different issues. Headspace, excessive trimming, over-sizing. You cna personally take care of two out of the three main causes...excessive trimming and over-sizing. As for headspace, well, that would required a visit to your local gunsmith...not gun dealer, and not the guy down the street who owns a machine shop.

[Benchshooter]

BW,
I agree with Ricc. It will forsure throw the moa off .. But that brass should hold up to more than 2 to 3 times..The powder amount sounds right, have you ever tried the Hodgdon H4831 that seems to work real good and I have found that the Speer doesn't work as good as the Hornady I also use the CCI large primmer.
This combo gets me in the area of 2 moa at 200 yrds plan to tighten it up though..

happy shooting

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Benchman

[BW]

Bench,

I have used H4831 before, with good results too! I truly like Hodgdon powders, over all other brands. One, because their short cans fit under my powder measure when it's in the RCBS stand. Two, because they have a nice Christian message on their website. Three, because their powders do work well.

In fact, I'm a real big fan of their "Extreme" and "shortcut" (or SC) powder lines. I'm pretty sure, that all the "Extreme" powders are the "shortcut" variety. I buy it when I can find it for sale here in my small town.

One day I tried RL22 in my 300Win Mag. It gives excellent accuracy, and it also meters very well through the powder measure. The "ReLoader" series of powders appears to be a "shortcut" powder too. Unlike the IMR line of powder, which seems to pride itself on being very long! :-) Don't get me wrong. I like IMR powders! In fact I have more cans of IMR (nearly the whole product line of rifle powders) on my reloading bench than any other brand.

About case life... I was misleading in my post above. I meant to say, that when loading ammo for hunting, I only use once or twice shot brass. Not, that my brass was only lasting a couple firings. Sorry for the confusion. I should keep better records, but I believe the brass that started to seperate, was used about 8 or 9 times. I knew it was "old" and purposely used it in this somewhat low-pressure load.

The whole purpose for this particular batch of ammo, was to practice shooting from field positions. So maximum power and accuracy was not a priority. I was just trying to shoot up a couple boxes of these 180 boattail Speers that I had laying around. I think that the story behind these Speers, will make a good subject for a new post. Gotta keep ol'Allen busy! :-)

Take Care!

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Brian
The 416 Taylor WebPage! (http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/)

[Benchshooter]

BW,
Very interesting post....I kinda agree with the times that those cases had been fired..he he It was a good idea though,,I think that it is a good idea to load lighter one to play with all the positions..

I too agree with the (sc) powder it works well in our Hornady powder measure.

I'll have to check out their website sounds good.
Maybe we can get Allen in on this I mean on the powders?? and maybe the Speers??
Happy shooting..



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Benchman