fast .35 Whelen loads

[Curdog]

I have a Mauser .35 Whelen that shoots 225 gr. loads very well, and fast (2650 fps, 22" brl.). My problem is I have a hard time approaching the classic 2500 fps with 250 gr. loads. In fact, I usually show case expansion more than I am comfortable with any time I exceed 2400 fps.

Any powder or load reccomendations?

[Ricciardelli]

Do you really think that extra 100 fps is worth possibly blowing your Mauser, and maybe even you, into several smaller components?

Velocity is basically a result of pressure. If 2400 fps is causing pressure problems, it makes no difference what powder you use. When the load reaches 2400 fps, the pressures will be the same and you will once again have the same pressure problem.

[Allen Glore]

Curdog, you don't say what powder or bullet you are presently using. Sounds to me like you are getting pretty standard velocities for a 22" barrel.You might want to try some H322 or RL15 if you have not already. I used H322 in my Whelen Improved and RL15 in my Whelen. You might also try some AA2015. I use that in my 358 Winchester and the 358 Winchester is just a short 35 Whelen.

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AlleninAlaska

[Curdog]

In responsce to Ricciardelli:

I do not mean to be offensive, but it is not that simple. First of all, the reason that different powders exist is because they have potentially different pressure curves. If I were to fill my Whelen case up with pistol powder, I would reach excessive pressure far before I acchieved the velocity I wanted.

Secondly, I do not plan on doing something foolish with my rifle. If I wanted a .358 STA, I would build one. However, 2500 fps with a 250 gr. is not beyond the pale for this cartridge. It is the sort of performance the cartridge was designed for.

Sorry if this comes out grumpy, I just don't feel I am reaching too far with the Whelen.

Thanks, Allen, for the powder tips!

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Curdog,
I agree with you that different powders have different pressure curves; that is why we are able to get such good results with Alliant STEEL powder....you are able to get velocities fast enough to kill ducks without undue high pressures. I also have a .44 magnum that HATES my cast bullet reloads with 2400....even at the lowest charges, I still get stuck cases, flattened primers, ect. Switch over to IMR 4227, and everything is fine and dandy. However, do you really feel that the difference of 100 fps can really be felt by whatever critter you are shooting? Remember: the enemy of "good" is "better". Just my 2cents, for what its worth (esp after tax day).

[Ricciardelli]

The reason we have different powders is because they have different burning rates.

The different burning rates generally result in differing pressure characteristics.

However, to move a particular object at a particular velocity requires a definate pressure level.

If you are having signs of excessive pressure at 2400 fps, then you are having excessive pressure at 2400 fps. This pressure may arrive earlier or later in the burn cycle of the powder, but it is still excessive.

If you were to load your Whelen with "pistol powder" you would reach that pressure level very early in the burn cycle, and would continue to increase pressure until it exceeded the limits of the chamber.

If you load your Whelen with the "proper" powder to obtain 2300 fps, then you would not reach the point where you would have signs of excessive pressure, but you also would not be obtaining your desired velocity, because the pressure of the conversion of the solid material to a gaseous state is not high enough to drive the bullet to 2400 fps..

The only way to increase your 2400 fps loads to 2500 fps loads is to increase the pressure in the barrel enough to drive the bullet 100 fps faster. And if you have signs of excessive pressure at 2400 fps, you WILL have greater signs of pressure at 2500 fps.

The whole idea of increasing powder charges is to increase the amount of pressure from the combustion of the powder, thereby increasing the velocity of the bullet.

It is that simple.

[dahlgrenjohn]

Re. Ricciardelli's latest post. I think you are confusing the issue, the velocity is a function of impulse (pressure X time) and is represented by the area under the pressure-time curve. The strength of the action or it's failure stress level is a function of pressure. The upshot of all this is that one can use a slower powder at a lower pressure to increase velocity beyond what one would get from a faster powder at the same pressure. I hope this helps clear up the issue.

[Rootsy]

I can't directly give you data... my 24" Douglas XX isn't the fastest barrel out there and my 35 Whelen is a little longer than stock and a little fatter (35 Whelen AI). 2550 from a 250 Partition flattens primers... Shooting neck sized fire formed brass...

My favorite bullet is the 225 Ballistic tip.. Now the Accubond @ 3X the money... If you happen upon Nosler when they have 2nds you can make out reasonably...

My gun like RL15 & IMR 4350...

[Rustyaxecamp]

I run 57 grains of R-15 behind 250 gr Hornady Spirepoints and get great accuracy. It might not be 2500, but if I recall, it is real close.

[jmoser]

Generally speaking you will find better pressure results with slower burning powders as you go to higher bullet weights for a given caliber. Bullet seating depth and 'jump' to the lands also contribute to peak pressure. If it chambers in your rifle you can reduce pressure a bit by seating the bullet longer than 'book' length. My .300 Win mag Encore chamber allows me to seat 0.190" longer - this would never fit in any magazine. For magnum level loads I stay .025" - .035" off the lands depending on the bullet.

I wonder if the chamber [or headspace] in your rifle is not a bit loose and this is contributing to the case expansion issue? If you neck size the cases this would help eliminate that issue. Not real clear what kind of case expansion signs you are seeing?

Look at the primers to see pressure signs - an absolutely flat primer is a sure sign of dangerous pressures. If the primers look OK then I would guess it is a loose chamber allowing cases to stretch, neck sizing fixes that.

[Swamp Monster]

Man, folks are bored! Resurrecting an 8 year old post an all!!:D Course, good info is timeless!