Maybe I need some new advise?

[Huntinman225]

Cotinued from a post I dont want to take over...

Souinds like I'm setting myself up to shoot to far or doing something wrong not being able to get the dear in close. I have shot (a) dear at approx. 5yards and my longest at approx. 35yards the rest were no closer than 20yrd, matter a fact I shoot a 3 pin site and they are approx. 10, 20 ,and 30yrd. Needless to say my 2nd pins gets most of my attention and my first pin is for shooting in the yard with the kids.

Maybe I should ask for some pointers on trying to get them in closer ?? I mean if I can get them in closer that would be great!!

The only bad thing about were I hunt is that I know the land but I dont get to scout it to often, so I count on the normal deer movement to help me out. I do bait (within the limit) and deer do come into it but yeah when Im not there (night) I also use scents and cover up scents, I go way up in the tree (17'+)

I have been hunting deer for only 9yrs because duck hunting was at the top of the list until... well 9 yrs ago.

So if you have any tips please feel free to reply.

[srconnell22]

I shoot from 10 - 50 yards...so, in my opinion, your range is completely fine. I would say go higher in the tree...20 - 25' (lower if you have more cover).

Possibly eliminating the bait or moving your stand to a different location would help as well. Do you hunt only one or two stands? if so, the deer will figure you out and make a nice circle around you...which is where the longer shots come in.

Keep moving around to different locations, and use a lot of scent killer spray. I would say an average bow shot on a deer is about 20-25 yards so in my opinion your doing just fine!

[Huntinman225]

I shoot from 10 - 50 yards...so, in my opinion, your range is completely fine. I would say go higher in the tree...20 - 25' (lower if you have more cover).

Possibly eliminating the bait or moving your stand to a different location would help as well. Do you hunt only one or two stands? if so, the deer will figure you out and make a nice circle around you...which is where the longer shots come in.

Keep moving around to different locations, and use a lot of scent killer spray. I would say an average bow shot on a deer is about 20-25 yards so in my opinion your doing just fine! More of these responces will make me feel better:lol:. I do take a climber out and I normaly do not climb the same tree, and when I change locations yet still in the general area I only use food scents because of the existing bait allready down. Again Thanks!!

[Michihunter]

Playing the wind in my opinion is the number one factor in getting them closer. I agree with Scott though, if you are proficient at 35 yards and the shot has all the conditions favorable to killing that deer, then by all means shoot away.

Another factor you should consider is WHY they aren't getting closer. Is it the stand placement being to far from the corridor they travel? Are thjey busting you at closer ranges? etc

[Huntinman225]

Playing the wind in my opinion is the number one factor in getting them closer. I agree with Scott though, if you are proficient at 35 yards and the shot has all the conditions favorable to killing that deer, then by all means shoot away.

Another factor you should consider is WHY they aren't getting closer. Is it the stand placement being to far from the corridor they travel? Are thjey busting you at closer ranges? etc I do play the wind, so I think I am good there...

as far as being busted, I see deer but there like the flock of duck that just dont care and keep going, no matter what type of sound I make. Thank for the reply. Im glad people shot over 20yards like me, after all I do not want to make my son or daughter thinking that is to far when I do it. and I only made one kill at 35 yards - I think I would make that my limit tho..

[wildcoy73]

I am a little scrambled on why you would want the deer any closer to ya.
The closer the deer is to ya in a tree the smaller the vital area becomes, and the higher you must shot and than you start to get into the fat the plugs the exit hole and leaves a poor blood trail. at 20 feet up 20 yards gives you a nice shot at the lungs and heart with a low exit hole, and keeps your enter point low to stay out of the fat of the back.
I will agree that most deer are taken from 15 to 25 yards out. And for most bow hunters I have seen I would not suggest many shots over 35 yards.

[symen696]

My group constantly practices at 35-40 yards just for that reason. If the shot arises you can take it. Plus when you shoot at 40 in the pre season that 22 yarder seems like its five feet away. Todays modern high speed bows can easily shoot 35 yard, almost flat at that.

[Thunderhead]

Buy a good grunt call and call'em in.

95% of the deer I've killed fell because of a grunt call.

[Thunderhead]

I dug this up, it might help. I'm a caller by trade and give seminars every once in awhile on the subject. I use this post as an outline.

Hope it helps some. :

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This is going to be long fellas, but, it works.
Speaking the language, talking to deer and calling is hands down the deadliest tactic there is in my opinion willl mean the difference between killing a buck that is just out of range, or going home empty handed again telling yourself, well, at least I enjoyed the hunt.
( Which I do. But, being successful and out smarting ole mossy horns is way cooler. )

The calls I use are Woodhaven Custom Wood Caller, Rod Benson's Wood Deer Call, The Can and my own voice.

No 2 calls are made equal and I'll take it out of the package and play it before I buy it. Each call also has it's advantages and dis-advantages which is why I use different calls for different situations.

First- Woodhaven : Pure Deer. Not many calls sound this good.

Rod Bensons Wooden Deer Call : One of the best calls ever made. Awesome doe grunt and one of the best fawn in distress calls I've ever heard.
This call has been around forever and has led to the demise more Bucks than any other call I've ever used.

The Can made by Primos : I don't use this call the way it's supposed to be used, but will turn it upside down and blow thru the little hole on the bottom creating one of the most pitiful hurt/wounded/lost fawn calls on the market

My own voice : Blocking the air in my nose and bawling with my voice works very well too. It takes pracitce, but I can get the emotion that I want better than a regular call can produce at short ranges.

Deer calling done right is in my opinion the deadliest trick a hunter can master. Out of the 40 + bucks I've killed, over 90% fell to the call. Including 4 doubles.
I've always said, run 10 deer by me, I will call in 7, probably 8, 2 for whatever reason won't pay any attenton to me, including the biggest buck I've ever seen in my life.
The day I saw him, there were 3 bucks together.
2 of'em are in my gallery photos, the big boy wouldn't even look in my direction.
Those 2 deer came in from 285 yards. The 16pt. died at 12 feet. The 8pt came in at a dead run and I killed him at 15 yards.

As I write this there is another brusier ( the one I'm talking about in the post below ) I sent to the promised land last year due to calling. After an hour of challanging, grunting, blatting and everything else I could think of, I went to the fawn bawl and called in the girls.

We men know that our weakest link is the female. We don't like to admit it, but it's true nevertheless. Once we gett'em on our mind, nothing, and I mean nothing is going to pull us away. You know what I mean.

Anyway, there were 14 does and 5 Bucks, including the one I ended up killing.
( One of the other bucks was at least a 125 class 10 pt.)
They were well over 300 + yards away when I started bawling. The does came in with 4 Bucks in tow, the buck I was after hit the brush and came out under me.
Long story short, I arrowed him at 28 yards and watched him fall. I continued to " talk" to the deer and could have killed that 10 if I had wanted to as they all milled around and chased till dark.

Last years Post *********************


Deer " talk " all year long. The trick is to know what they are saying and why they are saying it. And remember, deer don't yell. Call just loud enough for them to hear you.

You really need to have your mind set. This might sound silly, but you need to be a deer.

Example: Fawn in distress. This will bring every doe within earshot running if done right. It'll also bring in that hot doe with a buck trailing right behind her.

I picture a fawn hung up in a fence with a broken leg in my mind. Then I start calling. I'm hurt. I'm scared. I want Momma. NOW. Emotion here is the key. You need to feel what your doing. Put every bit of emotion you can muster into the call by way of tone, volume and duration.

That night I was calling to the buck I'm hunting now, I tried the doe grunt first.
My first and foremost most successful call.
Sleezy, loose, come to me big boy. Nuthin.
Must be he's battin for the other side.

Then, I tried the fawn bawl. A buck could care less about a hurt fawn, but will sometimes come to look out of curiosity.
I bawled for 20 minutes. There's still alot of leaves on the trees. I was on the edge of a field, at almost dark, and could hear the deer running around under me in the picked corn and blatting looking for the fawn. I couldn't see'em cause of the leaves and it was getting dark, as well as my attention was focused on that buck. I only had minutes left of shooting light and he had to come in now if he was going to get arrowed. No go.

Then I did something I rarely do cause it spooks more than it attracts. I challanged him with a mature buck grunt.
That didn't work either. He kept looking over in my direction, but wouldn't commit.
Deer are funny that way.
Either they want company or they don't.
It was almost full dark by then and the game was over for the night.

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Here's a post I saved from another thread answering some questions from another member. This is pretty much how I do it. Hope this helps and Good Luck :

Originally Posted by BOB@BBT
Thunderhead, I have a couple questions.
I have had very limited success even getting a response to a buck grunt call.


Me: First of all, I 99.999999999% of the time I never use a Buck grunt or call in anyway. I always keep my call on the doe grunt or the DG setting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB@BBT
I couple years ago and I decided to call "blind" I was caught totally "flatfooted" in my treestand and he looked right up at me and spooked.



Me: Which is why I never call without seeing the buck I want to call in. I don't like giving away my position. I know that there are bucks in the area, sit tight, have patience, patience being the most important thing here. If your set up in a good spot, you'll see a buck. Once your busted, it's over for that particular deer for the entire season. I also believe that after he busts you and he changes his pattern, the other bucks will pick up on this and stay out of range from that spot for the rest of the season.

It's very rare that I have them charge in ( I can't remember one ever doing this to me ) or even circle to wind what they think they are hearing. After hearing the grunt, they usually snap up their head, look in my direction and start wandering/feeding toward me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB@BBT
so as of last year, I don't even take a buck grunt tube with me anymore. I think they do more harm than good in an area like mine. High pressure, mostly 1.5 year old bucks and a few 2.5. Instead, I got the Flextone grunt call and set it on "doe".



Me : Now your talkin. The doe grunt. This is the key. The whole ball of wax. The big bananna. The area doesn't matter, 8 out of 10 bucks WILL respond to a good doe grunt anytime during the 1st month of bow season, tho it will get harder to call later in season as the rut/hunter pressure kicks in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB@BBT
say I see a lone buck that's just passing by, but not on a trail within bow range? Like 80 yards out sneeking by. What do you do with that doe grunt? Just hit it once? If you get a confirming reaction from the buck, like he stops and looks your way, but keeps walking, what do you do? Call once more? Quit because he already heard you once? Or would I be better served to set on "fawn"? The fawn setting makes sense if the buck is with a doe, but what if he's alone?



Me :When I see a buck, I'll hit my doe grunt once. Very quick, sharp and just loud enough for him to hear it. A one second burp.
He'll snap his head up and immediatly look in your direction. ( In all my years of using this, only one buck didn't look, that was at 285 yards, I killed the 2 with him, maybe he was old and couldn't hear ?? ) read what he's doing, most of the time, they'll drop their head and start in your direction. If he continues on his original course, I'll hit him again, maybe just a tad louder with a bit more urgency.
Now, remember here, deer don't yell so put feeling into your calling, but don't call too loud. I'm that doe and I want you to come to me. His head will snap back up and he'll look your way again. Don't call again till it's obvious that he's not going to come in. Keep up the calling till he's out of sight. Even then, stay on your toes, I've had'em doubleback on their trail 1/2 hour later and look back in my direction and come in on their own.

As far as the fawn setting goes, a buck could care less if your hurt or want mamma. Not his problem. I ONLY use a fawn bawl for calling in a hot doe with a buck on her rear-end, or to kill a doe that I want to call in range.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB@BBT
What do you do about Oct1-Oct 31 vs rut? Would you approach the doe call differently then?



Me : I use the same doe grunt from Oct 1st thru the very end of muzzeloader season. A doe is a doe and if she's grunting at a buck, she wants his attention. He WILL give it to her, at least till firearm season starts. Also, as bow season progresses, the bucks will be harder to call.
A buck on the trail of a hot doe the tailend of the 1st. week of Nov. for example. Here's where the famn bawl will work, call the doe and he'll follow.

The whole month of Oct. is GOLDEN for calling in a buck using just the doe grunt.
As the rut comes on the bucks are smelling hot does all over the place and it's almost impossible to call one off a hot trail, whether the doe he's smelling is in sight or not.

Now , once gun season starts it's a whole lot harder to call in a buck. He's already spooked and has been running for his life for the better part of 2 weeks. It's a toss up whether he'll come in now. This is the time to pull out all the stops. I ALWAYS carry 2 different calls. No 2 calls are made equal or make the same sound and I'll take every call out of the package and listen to it before I buy.

You don't want a reedy, hollow sounding call or one that takes alot of air to work. You want your call to be able to call subtly with a clear, distinct sound and be able to gain some volume without distorting. I personally haven't found many on the market that fits this bill. The doe grunt has to sound distinctly different and higher pitched than the buck grunt. Night and day. In my opinion, this make all the difference in the world. It's a " girly" sound. You'll know when you play the call.


The thing here again, ( Gun season especially )
I DO NOT CALL BLIND. Here's why.
Gun season, the deer are spooked to the max, you call blind and one hears you, 9 tmes out of10 chances are he'll hightail it the other way. He's breeding does that he can see now and isn't taking any chances, at least that's the rule 98% of the time. If he can't identify what he's hearing, he's gone.
There are young and dumb bucks that might respond, but over all I don't want to take a chance and spook any big bucks in my area. If I can see a buck I'd call to, he's probably in gun range anyway.

Again, DURING gun season, If he's a buck that I want to kill and he's out of range, and won't respond to a doe grunt, what the hell, you have nothing to lose, hit him with whatever you have. Then, and only then will I consider using a mature buck grunt.

......During bow season I won't use the Buck grunt. Chances are VERY good that even if he didn't respond and come right in, he'll be close and eventually come 'round to see who was talking to him.


During gun season / late bow season/rut, I want does around me. I want them to come to my fawn bawling because they're in heat and will leave a scent trail when they come to me. They will eventually leave when they find no fawn, but the scent is still there. I only call to does that I can see.
The longer I can keep'em in my area the better.
If they start to wander away, I'll bawl softly to get them to either come back, or hang somewhere close. This works really good on the edges of the thick stuff where a buck is likely to be and where a hurt fawn will also be likely to laying up.

Experience is the best teacher in this aspect of hunting and nothing works 100% of the time, but, some things work much better and at different times than others and will tip the odds greatly in your favor.
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[eddiejohn4]

I have to agree 100 percent with thunderhead, I have posted before on just how vocal deer can be. I have taken several bucks by using a distress call.

I also use an ambush saddle so as I can be versatile with where I will set up that day. hard to pattern an ever changing position.

[dougdad]

Hunt225 ,That is all average. One thing you can do is go all the way with scent ellimination. I do not use a scent lock suit (cant afford one) but I use the Hunters Specialties Scentaway System religiously. And IT WORKS to say the least as long as you follow the instructions. Your shooting is no diferent then anyone elses. I use an old Bear Whitetail 2 and shoot under 30 yards every year, nothing unusual there or with your way either. Any closer and they will here your heartbeat and breathing.
Keep up the good work with the kids, thats cool and very rewarding !!!!