Motives for your Position

[Michihunter]

It appears that a lot of people are unaware of each others motives behind their position regarding the full inclusion of crossbows in MI's archery season. So I've started a thread where we can all share our personal motive and positioning regarding this issue:

I personally feel that crossbows would pose no threat to the MI deer herd dynamics and that certain individuals would benefit from the full inclusion of crossbows. I also believe that although there may be an increase in archery tags short term, it is offset by the number of tags we've lost over the last several years and that within 5 years, the number of archery tags will remain at a steady number. I personally will probably add a crossbow to my arsenal of weapons if this were to pass, but in no means would become exclusively a crossbow hunter.

[swoosh]

Hunting is fun, and I do not want anyone to slip through the cracks again.

[Terry Williams]

I beleive that it will have an impact on the herd, especially young bucks and that it will result in a shorter or restricted archery season.

[ridgewalker]

My motive is so that I can again hunt during archery season as I cannot pull a compound back anymore. The permit process did not offer any help as it was too narrow in requirements.:sad:

[PrtyMolusk]

Howdy-

Guys, there are plenty of threads going already if you wish to debate; let's try to keep this one on-track and simply list your motives.....

[Joe Archer]

I just always seem to be inclined to take the side of the underdog! :D

I love archery just as much as most of you love hunting, and it saddens me to think of a future with the vast majority of hunters setting aside more traditional archery equipment. It saddens me to think of a future when the majority of deer in archery season will be harvested with a crossbow. Inherently to me; shooting a crossbow is not archery.

I am somewhat concerned about the effect that the influx of new hunters will have on the current season length, and public land deer herd I hunt. I would prefer testing the waters before jumping in feet first with our eyes closed.

Oh! I almost forgot this profound quote... "To me it is not about the destination. It is about the journey" ;)

Dang! They keep coming out of the woodwork!
I am concerned about the effect that cost restructuring to increase license revenues will have on my ability to AFFORD to hunt.
With the current (combo license) in place the legalization of crossbows will have minimal effect on license revenue.
<----<<<

[NoWake]

Honestly, I was under the assumption that this thread was to post our motives not defend them?

Truly sorry, I was just trying to understand it. Not attack it. FWIW, if someone believes that the introduction of crossbows into the archery season would have a negative affect on the resource, or the season, I don't blame them for opposing it.

For the most part, I support it because of the person who got me into hunting, especially bowhunting. As a kid my dad was always working a lot of hours. He started his own business and worked tons of hours to make it grow. He hunted and fished but those things usually got put aside for work. When I was young all I knew was how important it was to work. Weeknights mom would often pack up a basket and gather me and my sister up and take us to the 'shop' for dinner so we could eat with dad. When mom had something to do dad would watch us at the shop. He always had floors to sweep or something for us to do. When fall aproached and the temperature started to cool, our free weekends were spent cutting wood to heat the house. Dad always tried to make it fun, and it was, but we still had work to do. As far back as I can remember, when I got off the school bus I would change clothes and run over to the neighbors farm and 'help' him with all kinds of chores. Our neighbor was a great man and another huge influence on my life, like a grandfather I never had.

One year my much older cousin started hunting our neighbors farm. He hunted with a longbow, and a flintlock. He started to stop in and ask me to tag along when he was scouting and making brush blinds. I was always impressed with his knowledge of the woods and must of showed an interest because he became somewhat of a mentor. He got me started with an old bear recurve and gave me some arrows to shoot. Things evolved and my new found passion revived my dad's interest in the outdoors.

Now, my cousin is unable to pull back a compound bow, but would not qualify for a permit. My dad isn't far behind him and doesn't practice as much as he should now. I believe there are many just like my cousin who have done a lot for bowhunting who are now sitting the bench and 'bowhunting groups' have turned their backs on them. I won't!

It is my opinion that crossbow inclusion will not change the quality or qauntity of archery season, and any negatives are far offset by the positives it would create.

[goemado]

I believe making crossbows available to everyone will result in;

1. More hunters (with less overall skill levels) in the woods during archery season making it even more difficult to be successful (doe or buck) during archery season. I don't believe there is a problem with declining hunter participation in Michigan regardless of the published number of license holders nor do I believe that the lack of a crossbow option is the cause of the perceived problem.

I also have no issue with people being unable to participate in certain sports because they are physically incapable or unwilling to become proficient (I certainly recognize these are two distinct causes - I'm not at all claiming they're connected). I do have sympathy for those with physical disabilities that may make hunting with bow and arrows difficult or impossible. However, limitations and challenges are a part of life. Life is not fair. We don't have to like it.

2. More young bucks will be harvested. Allowing crossbows during archery season will not address what I believe is one of the primary issues with deer hunting in Michigan - the lack of opportunity to harvest a trophy buck because so very few of them live past 1.5 years of age. In fact, it will exacerbate it. Look at the maps showing P/Y and B/C level deer harvested per hunter by State. Why is it, with such a "sky is falling" issue of reduced hunter participation, we don't compare even on par with about every state that borders us? People aren't choosing to hunt out of State because there is an opportunity to use a crossbow. They're going because there are far greater opportunities to harvest trophy animals. Not everyone hunts for trophy-class animals, but I never met a deer hunter that wasn't thrilled to see one and wouldn't tag one if the opportunity presented itself. I'll bet there'd be more hunters in Michigan if the opportunities to tag one were greater.

With crossbows available to everyone, there will be more young bucks harvested during archery season because there will be far more hunters in the woods with a far greater chance of success than under current rules. I don't mind shooting does - I believe it is necessary to maintain a healthy herd balance. But I very much enjoy seeing trophy bucks. That will be far more difficult when even fewer bucks will survive past 1.5 years of age - as will happen when the woods fill up with crossbow hunters.

3. Decline in general skill level of the hunter participating in archery season. Archery will become a point and shoot exercise vs. a skilled sport requiring participants to practice shooting and how to successfully execute a shot at the moment of truth. The issue; assuming the necessary fieldcraft to get a suitable deer in a position to take a shot with an arrow, it is almost impossible for an archer using a "veritical" bow for the first time to make a successful shot at that animal. In contrast, the odds are very much in favor of a hunter (I didn't use the word archer on purpose) picking up a crossbow for the first time and hitting the mark. I've shot crossbows, compound bows and recurves. The first time I shot a crossbow I hit the "X". Follow up shots formed a very tight group. I was not nearly as successful with the other bow types. There is a clear difference in the skill level required among the different options.

All good fun to talk about -- but this ship has sailed.

[Ferg]

Let hug the topic pretty tight guys - there are pleanty of places for the debate - this isn't one - thanks

ferg....

[Ferg]

Guys - stop trying to drive this thread off the topic at hand - either state your motives or don't post.

thanks

ferg....

[john warren]

ok , first i have to declare my position. while i will not oppose the right to use crossbows , and support liberal considerations for those with physical difficulties. i personaly feel that while most will use them ethicly, it will incourage too many without good ethics to buy one, spend a short time sighting it in, and go out to the woods. and yes i aggree theres the same problem with guns and the easily learned compound.

that being said. my motives for not actively fighting against the use of crossbows can be found in the second amendment.

if theres enough support for their inclusion then so be it.

[Slice]

I am for X-Bows. Hunting is Hunting it should not matter what your weapon of choice is as long as it can harvest the animal in a human manner.

I have older friends that I would love to take out during bow season that can not pull back a bow but do not qualify for a crossbow permit. I myself love using my bow and would not give it up unless I could not pull my bow back any longer.

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

100% pro inclusion. do the words equal rights mean anything to anyone here? they do to me!

[cadillacjethro]

I am for full inclusion because IMO there are no valid reasons for exclusion. For the record, I do not own one and do not plan on running out to buy one should this pass.

[Danatodd99]

I'm for full inclusion:
My motives are unselfish.
I feel that we need to open hunting to as many people as we can.
I personaly don't really care how we do it, we just need more people into the sport.
If we start making them sit at home and watch football and eat bon-bons they will be against hunting all together.
We are few in number now, lets not add to their numbers.

[back_water_buck]

I don't own a crossbow, I do bow hunt and rifle hunt.

It's my belief that when the archery season was approved by the legislature and designed by the DNR, they did not have crossbows in mind. If they felt it was appropriate to use these weapons during this hunt, they would have approved it then.

As it's been pointed out to me in recent threads, the crossbow has been around for 5000 years (well before the DNR and archery season, for you non-history studiers ;)). So timing is not an issue.

Use the weapon during the seasons it's approved for.

[Terry Williams]

Howdy-

Guys, there are plenty of threads going already if you wish to debate; let's try to keep this one on-track and simply list your motives.....

:yikes:

[swampbuck]

I suport increased hunter opportunity with no negative effect on the rescource.

PLUS I am to lazy to use a bow. but ambitious enough to piss the bow fanatics off.:D

[michigandeerslayer]

I think it should be the hunters choice on how they would like kill a deer with a broadhead

In the end the results are the same if you have a well placed shot

[sputty]

I like to hunt. I like to hunt with a crossbow in archery season. And I think alot of other hunters want to hunt with a crossbow in archery season. Its that simple for me.

[CHASINEYES]

POSITION- I stand against full inclusion,but would like to see permit requirements eased for the disabled.
MOTIVE- affraid of a large influx of new archery hunters in the southern lower penn. Our area is finally seeing some 2.5 yr. old bucks and I feel full inclusion would mean less 1.5 yr old bucks make it through the season,due to ease of use and higher hunter #s.

[2PawsRiver]

I support the use of a Crossbow by a hunter that is physically diabled to the point of not being able to hunt with a Bow. I do not support full inclusion and outside of a disability consider the Crossbow to be the lazy mans way to Bow Hunt and an insult to the sport.

[wally-eye]

I think in the end there would be no noticeable difference in the "total" yearly deer kill whether crossbows were inclusive or not. Which is the bottom line, not what some other legal hunting method a hunter might be using....

I was one that had reservations about compounds when they were allowed but it didn't cheapen the sport and I came to embrace them........

[TOW]

I LOVE to hunt deer.

I will hunt deer with whatever is legal at the time and that I can adequately use.

Legalize sling shots and I'll break out my Wrist Rocket. ;)

I also don't mind that you want to hunt with whatever deer hunting tool that you want to. I will have no effect on you and you will have no effect on me.

The hunting tool does not make the hunter, the hunter's heart makes the hunter.

[walrus]

100% FOR more hunters = more votes........

[wildcoy73]

As everyone knows I am a full supporter of the crossbow.
My reason behind this is for the youth of our country and anyone that has trouble with 40lbs of draw weight. They have just as much right to hunt as I do pulling 70 lbs back.

[Liv4Huntin']

Position: Full inclusion for crossbows during all Michigan's archery seasons.

Motives: No documented evidence to show any negatives towards the resource anywhere it's been implemented. Fairness and Freedom of choice for hunters to have the opportunity to use another piece of archery equipment in Michigan's archery seasons. Plenty of positives coinciding with full inclusion. Therefore: No reason NOT to include crossbows as tools in Michigan's archery seasons.
~m~

[Whit1]

Two posts above have been deleted because they are off topic. This is for a statement of motives rather than debate.

[olliek]

For wanting to use a crossbow in the archery season is to enable me to sit in the October sunshine on my 85 acres with the opportunity to harvest a deer.

I had to hang up my 48# Ben Pearson recurve 10 yrs ago because I could no longer pull and hold it. I do not come anywhere near the requierment the State demands.

All I ask is to be able to use my own personal property that I worked hard for all my life and pay taxes on.

With 85% of all hunters using private land, the landownwer will control who, how many, and which method will be used in all seasons.----Dave

[Sabre03]

I'm against full inclusion
My motives are
1. I have actually had the opportunity to legally hunt with both bow and crossbow. And The process by which you take a deer with a crossbow is so different from taking a deer with a bow I dont really consider it a bow, even though it has limbs, string and shoots an arrow.

Its bow seaon: And a bow to me is a weapon that requires a person to draw it back and hold at full draw waiting for a shot opportunity

However, I feel it should be easier for the disabled to obtain a permit, and be able to hunt.

I am, for having a crossbow season, or allowing the use of them during gun season so everyone that wants to hunt with a crossbow will have the opportunity

[KI Jim]

I support use of crossbows because I can no longer pull back my compound comfortably to practice with it enough. It would enable me to start bow hunting again.

[Knight]

Position: For full inclusion

Motives:

1. A potential increase in the overall deer harvest=We are doing our jobs as stewards. When there are over populations of deer, I think our credibility suffers. As a result, I think one of the main reasons why hunting is allowed(to maintain a healthy herd), is weakened.

2. Several important family members of mine would be able to hunt earlier(youth who are unable to pull back an adequate amount of draw weight).

3. My grandpa would be able to hunt the archery season.

4. A disabled(but not enough for a permit) family friend will be able to hunt the archery season.

[Chuck]

Position: Against full inclusion of xbows in first archery season.

Motives;

First off Im all for lowering the handi cap requirments and an age requirment.

I hunt public land 98% of the time. There is already heavy preasure during bow season with out a influx of gun hunters hunting during bow season.

More than this though I have a true passion for archery. i shoot and hunt with recurves and compounds and I love them both. It takes skill and time to get good with a bow. It took me 5? years to kill my first deer with a bow. Everytime I drew back I got busted. I still get busted allot but I hunt on the ground with a bow. I have shot crossbows a few times in my life and they were allways way easiear to soot then a bow. Archery is like a religion to me and I hold it sacride(? spelling).

I do not see new hunters being introduced to it and there will not be any new liscence sales in Mi from it. I could see it shortening our bow season. Late season is gone already why not get rid of early too. We have 2 gun seasons in September, now xbows. It will be harder and harder to fill a tag.

[Swamp Ghost]

Against full inclusion.

Fully support doctor's note claiming inability to draw a bow for a disabled crossbow permit, fully support allowing hunters under the age of 14 and over the age of 59 to use a crossbow in any deer season.

Seeing how MI has several different overlapping deer seasons after the firearm season, I would fully support crossbow use for any deer season that takes place after Nov.14th.

The early "archery" season was fought for and set aside for hunters that WANT to hunt with what is currently legal, it should stay that way.

[boehr]

Position: For crossbows. Anything up to and including full inclusion.

Motives; Management of deer is not accomplished by the weapon but by fair chase, safety, and equal opportunity for hunters. This will allow opportunity for hunters, physically challenged, age or additional experience. The crossbow does not interfere with fair chase, safety, or opportunity.

[malainse]

Position: Full inclusion or Lower the restrictions !!!!

Due to the DNR laws that violate every State and Federal disability act myself and others do not qualify for a crossbow !!! We would like the same opportunity to enjoy all that Michigan hunting has to offer.

I have not noticed Mr. "What entitles you?" motives ?? :rolleyes:

[Falk]

Against full inclusion. I would like to see it easier for people with disabilities to obtain a crossbow permit. Senior bowhunters should be included also. Able body hunters, no way.

[beervo2]

Full inclusion , I call it FREEDOM OF CHOICE during the archery season..

[north_of_mackinaw]

I'm for full inclusion, my motive is simple. I have problems using a compound bow that I wouldn't have using a crossbow. I could hunt more days out of the season with a crossbow.

[DRHUNTER]

Against full inclusion. But lower the restrictions on crossbow usage so eldery and handicapped hunters can utilize bow season. I personally think that our priorities have changed from being hunters to merely shooters. We are losing the hunt from hunting and replacing it with harvesting which to me degrades the entire experience as well as the animal we are pursueing. A whitetail to me is too majestic to be placed in a wack-em and stack-em by any means catagory. Thanks

[BigBirdVA]

Position: Full inclusion


Having lived for many years in a no xbow state and have it go to full inclusion I have seen first hand what many fear or do not understand. There has been no negative impact from their inclusion. There are no restrictions on other archery bows and who can shoot what, so xbows should be no different. Age, physical ability and permits are unnecssary hurdles that have no place in outdoor recreational sports. They only serve to restrict and divide an already shrinking population of hunters.

The phrase "much ado about nothing" sums it up perfectly.

[CHASINEYES]

POSITION- Against full inclusion, but lesson the requirements for obtaining a crossbow permit.

MOTIVES-Same as my first post.I didnt state all of my motives and wont.Another motive I will state is I see people trying to use other states as examples(ohio and others) full inclusion of the crossbow had no ill effects on ''their'' herd.Michigan has how many more hunters per square mile -v- these other states,espeically southern lower michigan. :confused What would this # be??

[D-BEAVER]

I'm against full inclusion, but like the idea of making the x-bow more easily accessible to disabled or weaker( some elderly and younger) hunters.

If we were to make other legislative changes to ensure a healthier, more balanced herd with a more mature age structure, I'd be willing to amend my stance... but to simply add an additional weapon the the mix, with no further restrictions, I don't think so.

[bishs]

Think about this.
Today we have a long bow season. We are able to have a long season, because of the limitations and difficulty of using archery equipment.

We have a short gun seasons, simply because gun hunting is so much more effective.

The crossbow poses concerns. Though not as deadly as gun, it is much easier to harvest a deer over a bow. Anyone here who has not shot a crossbow could buy one Saturday morning, sight it in. Then harvest a deer that same day. Pulling a trigger, aiming through a scope, shooting off a solid rest is easy to say the least. What effect will this have on our bow season???

In 2005, I spent a week in a tent in British Columbia hunting moose. Two others in the tent were from Ohio. Listening to them tell stories of what crossbows have done to the bow season, was a bit disturbing. Seeing weekend hunters stalk through the woods in camo with cocked crossbows was only one of their issues.

[tdduckman]

I am for full inclusion

Motive:

I own my own hunting land (110 acres) and I want to hunt on it with a crossbow during archery season, this will not impact the deer or other archery hunters since I already control this on my land.

TD

[michigandeerslayer]

I am for full inclusion

Motive:

I feel a archer should be able to choose how he wants to kill a deer with a arrow and broadhead

Rich

[ATB]

Position: Against full inclusion of xbows in first archery season.

Motives;

First off Im all for lowering the handi cap requirments and an age requirment.


More than this though I have a true passion for archery. i shoot and hunt with recurves and compounds and I love them both. It takes skill and time to get good with a bow. It took me 5? years to kill my first deer with a bow. Everytime I drew back I got busted. I still get busted allot but I hunt on the ground with a bow. I have shot crossbows a few times in my life and they were allways way easiear to soot then a bow. Archery is like a religion to me and I hold it sacride(? spelling).

I do not see new hunters being introduced to it and there will not be any new liscence sales in Mi from it. I could see it shortening our bow season. Late season is gone already why not get rid of early too. We have 2 gun seasons in September, now xbows. It will be harder and harder to fill a tag.

Against full inclusion.

Fully support doctor's note claiming inability to draw a bow for a disabled crossbow permit, fully support allowing hunters under the age of 14 and over the age of 59 to use a crossbow in any deer season.

Seeing how MI has several different overlapping deer seasons after the firearm season, I would fully support crossbow use for any deer season that takes place after Nov.14th.

The early "archery" season was fought for and set aside for hunters that WANT to hunt with what is currently legal, it should stay that way.

These are right on with me guys
Postion Opposed to full inclusion, would be pro reducing the requirement to allow more hunters to enjoy the season but not everyone (laziness shouldnt be a handicap)

Motives: The many good points mentioned above. I am concerned with the further decline in the quality of the hunting product here in MI.

[gplant]

My reason would be a little selfish I guess. I would like to see my Dad get back out during archery season. He cant shoot a bow anymore and because of the way its setup he cant get a crossbow permit.I also feel that a hunter should be able to choose the weapon that they want to use as long as it falls within our laws.