Analogy of the crossbow debate

[Buckeye Dan]

I wanted to create an analogy that would help the anti crossbow gang see how silly their

arguments are. I wanted to do it in a child like fasion so that everyone involved on either

side of the fence could get it. It needed to be as acurate as possible so the trolls would

get it too. Well I came up with this little piece. It's intended purpose is to apply the

current arguments of the crossbow/traditonal bow/gun debate to another item. For the

purposes of staying on topic you will have to understand the item I used in this thread is

to make a point for the crossbow arguments. I hope the mods find it amusing enough to not

delete it. I also hope the mods understand this is an analogy of the crossbow debate and is

on topic.




The evolution of the snow shovel

Many years ago if you were to go about the task of removing snow you would use a shovel that

looked like this:
http://www.mccullohantiques.com/pict1108.jpg
Many traditionalists use this type of shovel to this day. It's widely accepted even though

it's original purpose was for scooping coal into furnaces and boilers. A useful design but

we needed a more efficient tool for snow removal. Somewhere along the way someone decided

this design would fit that criteria:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2355/1752005559_9cf2ff595e.jpg?v=0
A much more efficient tool for removing snow but heavy and hard on the back and it's too

difficult for women to use. Let's face it us men don't want to be the only ones enjoying all

the snow removal. Modern materials like alloys and plastics helped some:
http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/455725_front500.jpg
Still difficult to hold when fully loaded and still too difficult for most women and

children.
Then the birth of the ergonomic shovel or recurve shovel:
http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/292581_front500.jpg
Ahh much easier on the back. It even changes my ability to hold the shovel in the fully

loaded position. The general snow shoveling community met this shovel with some resistance

but once they tried it they accpeted it. It still requires a great deal of physical ability

and practice to become efficient with it however. Hrm How can we improve this and involve

more of the population?
Well if we use a little physics we can add wheels and leverage to create a compound shovel

that almost everyone can use:
http://www.outdoordecor.com/images%5Cproducts%5CP0020348.jpg
Now thats what I would call one heck of a snow moving machine! But it doesn't look like the

shovel I use so I am not sure I can accpet it. This shovel got stern resistance from the

snow shovel advocates but most learned to accept them or stuck with their traditional or

recurve shovel.
Then some genius came up with this shovel:
http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/wovel_6.jpg
We cannot accpet that snow flinging device! It would allow you to hold your shovel fully

loaded all day! It's so easy a woman can use it! We did want to invlove women in our snow

shoveling duties but we will have to draw the line with this contraption. Sure it will hold

the same amount of snow as my traditional or compound shovel but it's not a shovel at all.

It may have the same flinging range as my shovel but we choose to ignore that because it

isn't a shovel. It is a snowgun! If we allowed that snowgun thing in our snow season there

wouldn't be any snow left for the rest of us! If people used that snowgun they would only

remove the youngest virgin snow with it! It looks like an artillery piece! You move it

towards the snow just like a field cannon or howitzer! I can prove it!:
http://www.logancountytourism.org/CourtExt2.JPG
Even though we know a snow gun uses chemicals and explosions to throw the snow we will

ignore that fact because it looks like a cannon! Therefore it is some sort of snowgun! We

might allow the physically challenged to use it in our snow season. Or we could make you

wait till later in the snow season when the snow is much deeper and others use their noisy,

intrusive snowguns.

http://berkeleyplace.com/fullcircle/archives/pix/2005/12-09-070-blower.jpg

[Terry Williams]

Dan you've got alot of time on your hands. You should take up varmit hunting with your xbow

[Buckeye Dan]

Dan you've got alot of time on your hands. You should take up varmit hunting with your xbow


HEHE!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lo l:
Sometimes I surprise myself. It's a holiday and I had nothing better to do while I wait for grill time.

[Riva]

Allow me to be the first, of what I know will be a multitude of similar praise and approval upon this phenomenal analogy. Great work. With your permission, I will send this to every Senator in Lansing!

Riva

[Kelly Johnson]

Funny stuff Dan!:lol:

But doesn't relate at all:16suspect

Perhaps we should legalize infrared heat seeking ammunition from a .50 cal automatic weapon in all of our "deer season"

It's better!
It's faster!
Less tracking!
Less chance of wounding and animal!


Or Maybe...just maybe...

We could get the DNR to shoot some deer FOR US!
They can line them up in coolers all over the state and we could just buy a "tag" and pick out the dead carcass we want to take home!

How much easier does it need to be?

For the record...I'd vote FOR inclusion were I ever asked but your analogy is ridiculous and I resent the condescending overtones from someone ONLY HERE TO FURTHER A CAUSE and that has NO vested interest in the issue.

Clear enough for ya partner?

[jpollman]

For the record...I'd vote FOR inclusion were I ever asked but your analogy is ridiculous and I resent the condescending overtones from someone ONLY HERE TO FURTHER A CAUSE and that has NO vested interest in the issue.

Clear enough for ya partner?

So someone who doesn't hunt with a traditional bow, compound bow, or a crossbow has no right to express an opinion?

John

[Kelly Johnson]

Tell ya what John.
You want to express your opinion that's fine and dandy.

You want to cross lines and start a smear campaign working only to make the opposing members of an issue looks silly or stupid on..Oh ..I dunno...say an Alabama website?

They might just throw ya out.

And I wouldn't blame them.

[Buckeye Dan]

Funny stuff Dan!:lol:

But doesn't relate at all:16suspect

Perhaps we should legalize infrared heat seeking ammunition from a .50 cal automatic weapon in all of our "deer season"

It's better!
It's faster!
Less tracking!
Less chance of wounding and animal!


Or Maybe...just maybe...

We could get the DNR to shoot some deer FOR US!
They can line them up in coolers all over the state and we could just buy a "tag" and pick out the dead carcass we want to take home!

How much easier does it need to be?

For the record...I'd vote FOR inclusion were I ever asked but your analogy is ridiculous and I resent the condescending overtones from someone ONLY HERE TO FURTHER A CAUSE and that has NO vested interest in the issue.

Clear enough for ya partner?

I am sorry you feel that way Kelly. It's intended purpose was to shed a little humorous light on the context of the current debate. If 1 anti crossbow advocate gets a laugh out of it then I would consider it a success. Sorry I just couldn't wait till April 1st to post it. And I do have an interest in MI hunters being allowed to use the crossbow. I want you to be able to choose as I am able to choose. It's my duty as an American to help anyone that doesn't have that choice to get it if they desire it.

[jpollman]

Well I don't plan on expressing an opinion but I'm really starting to get tired of all this Crossbow/Anti-Crossbow debate. It seems that this site is starting to get away from being Michigan-Sportsman.com and is turning into "The Crossbow Debate Site". I for one am glad that at least they've got their own forum now so it's condensed into one place.

John

[Riva]

I thought Kelly was being purposely sarcastic and, his comments of disgruntlement were being directed at Terry Williams. Am I missing something here?:dizzy:

Anyway, I like your analogy.

[Riva]

Well I don't plan on expressing an opinion but I'm really starting to get tired of all this Crossbow/Anti-Crossbow debate. It seems that this site is starting to get away from being Michigan-Sportsman.com and is turning into "The Crossbow Debate Site". I for one am glad that at least they've got their own forum now so it's condensed into one place.

John

John, what are ya grill'n tonight? I'm just over here in Lake Orion ("where living is a vacation") and I can be over there in 3 mins or so!!:)

[ridgewalker]

Hey Dan, this gave me a great laugh when I needed it so it scored points with me. I support the issue and I think we all need a sense of humor when dealing with emotional issues like this one.:lol:

[Terry Williams]

I thought Kelly was being purposely sarcastic and, his comments of disgruntlement were being directed at Terry Williams. Am I missing something here?:dizzy:

Anyway, I like your analogy.



Are you just realizing your confused?:D

[BigBirdVA]

What's a snow shovel? :lol: We got zero snow last winter in my part of the state.

[Terry Williams]

What's a snow shovel? :lol: We got zero snow last winter in my part of the state.

I am for full inclusion on the snow issue. Here is what will happen once the snow guns take over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDi9MbhPwUI&feature=related

[2PawsRiver]

That poor horse.

[Buckeye Dan]

I am for full inclusion on the snow issue. Here is what will happen once the snow guns take over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDi9MbhPwUI&feature=related

Ahh! But Terry you must realize that your example of the snowgun is a mobile artillery piece used for waging war on snow. I am pretty sure it isn't legal for the general population to use an armored self propelled vehicle with that kind of devastation on deer. Otherwise we would be playing bumper cars in the woods with M2's/M3's (Bradley). The government employee regulated weapons and shovels should remain where they are. They are trained to handle this kind of ordinance to prevent someone's Chevy Chevette getting caught in the wake. We don't want to advocate machine guns and artillery that would be unsportsmanlike like. We just want to keep the small arms snow gun in the snow season it belongs. If we allowed the military snowgun in snow season we could wind up with this:


http://www.armyvehicles.dk/images/m113a1dozer.jpg

[TOW]

I understand that some unscrupulous (and greedy) manufacturers/scientists are working on a plan to harness the suns energy and melt that snow in one fell swoop.


http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/primer/primer_graphics/Sun.png (http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/primer/primer_graphics/Sun.png)


Then again if we listen to Al Gore all this talk about “snow” is a waste of time..


http://home.mindspring.com/~macjohnson/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/gore.gif

[Swamp Ghost]

Pretty soon there will be no need to even leave your recyliner to hunt. Talk about full-inclusion!

The evolution of the slippery slope:

http://www.somethingcool.ca/backissues/070405/ls_rifle.jpg

Most have said that they do not believe it is "real" hunting. All that I can say to that is hunting is what the individual makes of it.

I know that the few people who have hunted this way have experienced the spirit of the hunt and the emotions which accompany it.

When it comes to using a modern firearm, the motion of clicking the mouse is no different than pulling the trigger. I repeat NO DIFFERENT, it is just a different orientation of the finger. There is no real skill involved in waiting for an animal to come into rifle range when hunting from a fixed stand. A person only needs the ability to aim and fire accurately when the moment arrives. This is why I say that I have set up the hunting portion no differently than any hunting scenario where a fixed stand is used to wait for animals to come into range.

I knew that hunting on-line would not be a great interest to hunters. At least those who do have the opportunity to get into the field. It is designed to allow those without other options a chance to do it if they so desire.

Sound familiar?

http://www.somethingcool.ca/backissues/070405/section119.htm

[BigBirdVA]

Pretty soon there will be no need to even leave your recyliner to hunt. Talk about full-inclusion!

The evolution of the slippery slope:

http://www.somethingcool.ca/backissues/070405/ls_rifle.jpg









Sound familiar?

http://www.somethingcool.ca/backissues/070405/section119.htmYou must have heavy equipment in use to be digging that one up.

[TJD]

Pretty soon there will be no need to even leave your recyliner to hunt. Talk about full-inclusion!

The evolution of the slippery slope:

http://www.somethingcool.ca/backissues/070405/ls_rifle.jpg









Sound familiar?

http://www.somethingcool.ca/backissues/070405/section119.htm
Say YES to opportunity? :yikes:

[BigBirdVA]

I think the state the "hunt" was located in deemed it illegal.

[Munsterlndr]

Pretty soon there will be no need to even leave your recyliner to hunt. Talk about full-inclusion!


Strawman attempt #325. :rolleyes:

Just as applicable to compounds, in-lines and any other technological advancement found in hunting. Running around shouting the sky is falling has got to be getting pretty tiring by now.

[Swamp Ghost]

I mean I could almost see how a crossbow bow guy could view this as "cheapening" hunting. But that cat left the bag with the introduction of computer.

Good luck turning the clock back.

This guy's opinions on the legitimacy of live-shot.com are the same ones used by crossbow advocates.

It's almost like the M-S.com crossbow forum, cliff notes style.

[2PawsRiver]

Liveshot.com.............it's hunting and we should stand united and support it:rolleyes:

[TOW]

I mean I could almost see how a crossbow bow guy could view this as "cheapening" hunting. But that cat left the bag with the introduction of computer.

Good luck turning the clock back.

This guy's opinions on the legitimacy of live-shot.com are the same ones used by crossbow advocates.

It's almost like the M-S.com crossbow forum, cliff notes style.

For curiousity's sake I pulled up ...

http://www.live-shot.com/

Niow I did not spend a lot of time there, but I do not see any "internet hutning" there?

Besides we are talking about legalizing a hunting tool that has been around since the 4th centurty BC..

[boehr]

Actually if I remember correctly, the internet hunting was decided to be illegal because of a major safety issue reason that could happen with that type of activity.

[TOW]

Actually if I remember correctly, the internet hunting was decided to be illegal because of a major safety issue reason that could happen with that type of activity.

I've got to believe that this is just more mis-direction from SG..

. 2008 – Connecticut has pending legislation to ban Internet hunting.
2008 – 3 states (Florida, Utah, and Oklahoma) enact bans on Internet hunting.
2007 – 10 states enact bans on Internet hunting.
2006 – 11 states enact bans on Internet hunting.
2005 – 14 states enact bans on Internet hunting.
June 2005 – Texas bans the practice of Internet hunting, effectively shutting down Live-Shot.com.
March 2005 – Virginia becomes the first state to outlaw the practice of Internet hunting.
January 2005 – Entrepreneur John Lockwood starts Live-Shot.com web site which offers hunters the opportunity to kill animals online.

[Swamp Ghost]

Safety issue, LOL! If they say so.

I don't recall any people being injured or killed.

[BigBirdVA]

Safety issue, LOL! If they say so.

I don't recall any people being injured or killed.That's because it never got off the ground.

Surely you've almost reached the end of silliness on this thread? What's next xbows are responsible for greenhouse gases?:yikes:

[Liv4Huntin']

Gee, swamp.... this reeks of a move of desperation..........:rolleyes:
~m~

[Terry Williams]

That's because it never got off the ground.

Surely you've almost reached the end of silliness on this thread? What's next xbows are responsible for greenhouse gases?:yikes:

No of course not, thats just plain silly, but they have been linked to mental illness:lol:

[BigBirdVA]

No of course not, thats just plain silly, but they have been linked to mental illness:lol:You're not kidding! The mere mention of the words "xbow" and "inclusion" in the same sentence can spontaneously trigger delusional episodes for those not on their daily meds. These fits complete with incoherent responses can last for days on end. I've seen one case where the guy went off the deep end never to be heard from again. I've seen it happen time and time again .:yikes:

That guy that lost it can be seen here. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V5xhcCOVpJY

[Terry Williams]

Your right I had to increase my medication ever since the house passed this bill..:dizzy:

[BigBirdVA]

Your right I had to increase my medication ever since the house passed this bill..:dizzy:Be careful you know what's next don't you? You'll be donning disguises sneaking into Bass Pro in the off hours looking at xbows being careful no one from MBH sees you. Then the online sneaking will be next. Looking at Ebay and clicking on another page when a family member enters the room. "Honey you've been acting strangely lately, is everything all right" the SO might ask. You're probably too far gone now. :lol:

[Terry Williams]

To digress a little as you know I'm in Ohio and a guy I know that knows I bowhunt asked me were he could sight his "bow" in. I said my house and he showed up and pulled out his crossbow:yikes:. I helped him sight it in and dare I say even shot it.

No pictures..:D

[Michihunter]

To digress a little as you know I'm in Ohio and a guy I know that knows I bowhunt asked me were he could sight his "bow" in. I said my house and he showed up and pulled out his crossbow:yikes:. I helped him sight it in and dare I say even shot it.

No pictures..:D
The fact that you allowed him to call it a 'bow' shows that there's still hope for ya.;):D

[TOW]

.............. and dare I say even shot it.

..

Fun, eh?

The magical flight of the arrow happens with any archery gear.

[Terry Williams]

Not allowed to say:o

[Michihunter]

Not allowed to say:oMBH wouldn't revoke your governorship, would they?:yikes:

[Terry Williams]

I'm up for election this year, running on a no crossbow platform:lol:

[TOW]

I'm up for election this year, running on a no crossbow platform:lol:

But you've been exposed to and probably infected by the Crossbow Bug....

Careful... you might end as a crossbow mole in the MBH.. :yikes:

[Terry Williams]

Not to reopen this never ending debate, I'm not against the crossbow, I just don't think its good for Michigan, under our current rules. My best friend who is a MBH member used a crossbow for many years before switching to a draw-loc system.

That was of his own accord I might add.

While I'm not for full inclusion I am for giving consideration to age, and lowering the disability from 80% to 60%. I am speaking for myself and not our organization.

[Frantz]

Here is my analogy.

"I want cross bows."

"Cross bows are stupid and for pansies."

"Shut up"

"No you shut up"

" I hate you, you dummy."

[Michihunter]

Here is my analogy.

"I want cross bows."

"Cross bows are stupid and for pansies."

"Shut up"

"No you shut up"

" I hate you, you dummy."I know you are but what am I!!:D:D

[BigBirdVA]

I know you are but what am I!!:D:DWell my dad can beat up your dad.:lol:

[TOW]

I know you are but what am I!!:D:D

"I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam" - Popeye the Sailor...

[kmtpr]

Buckeye Dan, excellent analogy and quite witty! :D

[Buckeye Dan]

Buckeye Dan, excellent analogy and quite witty! :D

Thanks to all that "got it".
But why are we reduced to the simplest terms?
Dear Mr. Anti crossbow man: We accept the fact that we had to sacrifice a whole Saturday to explain our purpose for whatever it was we did wrong. But, we think you're crazy to make us write an essay telling you who we think we are. You see us as you want to see us: in the simplest terms, in the most convenient definitions. But, what we found out is that each one of us is: an Archer
And a hunter . . .
And a bowman.
And a princess . . .(the female bowhunter that chooses a crossbow)
And a criminal. (The hunter that uses the crossbow but goes against the anti xbow gang.)

Welcome to the crossbow breakfast club.