MUCC Vote on Crossbow Inclusion For All

[November Sunrise]

MUCC held their annual meeting this weekend.

A resolution went before the membership to change MUCC's position to support crossbow use for all hunters during archery season.

The vote on the resolution was 189-144 in favor of full inclusion.

MUCC's parliamentarian ruled that their by-laws require a 2/3 vote to adopt any resolution which calls for a change in state law or NRC orders, so the resolution was not adopted.

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

WELL, thats one bylaw i am going to have to see myself. it's not that i don't believe they have that bylaw, because that is true in many clubs that have bylaws. my point is that the 2/3 vote is by ***total membership*** of many clubs, mine included, one of the oldest hunt clubs in michigan.(80 years) many of these clubs are governed by the non for profit act 162 revised 1982 which incases 11 chapters of laws which govern. somehow i just don't think mucc only has 333 members :confused:
IT JUST MAYBE MR LEVEY IS MISREADING OR MIIS INTERPETING THE BYLAWS its very easy to do these things when you are so VEHEMENTLY AGAINST CROSSBOWS. some just say it was a mistake when that happens.
now the question that has to be asked----who has those bylaws????

[TOW]

Resolution or no resolution it clearly shows that the majority that voted was for full inclusion.

More ammo.

[November Sunrise]

Resolution or no resolution it clearly shows that the majority that voted was for full inclusion.

More ammo.

Whether it's surveys by fish and game departments, non-scientific surveys on this forum, or in this case a MUCC vote, support levels continue to consistently come in at around 60%.

[Thunderhead]

the resolution was not adopted.

That's great news.

I see DMZ has already hatched a conspiracy theory. :rolleyes:

[butter21]

That's great news.

I see DMZ has already hatched a conspiracy theory. :rolleyes:

Bylaws must be the only topic he doesnt know everything about.

[weatherby]

That's great news.

I see DMZ has already hatched a conspiracy theory. :rolleyes:

Why so much negativity from you lately Tom? Especially on this forum:confused:This is the crossbow forum

[aspray]

Our bylaws state that resolutions requiring a change in state/federal law requires a 2/3 majority of the voting delegates at Annual Convention, not the total membership.

A change to our bylaws also requires a 2/3 majority of voting delegates at our Annual Convention.

We will be posting on our website, hopefully by the end of the day, the resolutions that passed at our Convention.

I'd be happy to take any questions via email at aspray@mucc.org

[Hamilton Reef]

Keep in mind that all the crossbow debates at MUCC convention were the most emotional heated and time consuming resolutions. The heated debates started immediately upon arrival the first evening social hour before the convention even started. During convention all of your concerns and talking points were well covered over and over and over, and over........zzzzzzzzz. That included amendments and end run manuvers. We could get up, go to the restroom, have a cup coffee, read the news paper, and come back without missing anything new. We also could have gotten on the road back home Sunday much earlier if it wasn't for those crossbow debates.

[Whit1]

Our bylaws state that resolutions requiring a change in state/federal law requires a 2/3 majority of the voting delegates at Annual Convention, not the total membership.

A change to our bylaws also requires a 2/3 majority of voting delegates at our Annual Convention.

We will be posting on our website, hopefully by the end of the day, the resolutions that passed at our Convention.

I'd be happy to take any questions via email at aspray@mucc.org


Thanks for helping out with the thread topic. It is very much appreciated.

[Munsterlndr]

Our bylaws state that resolutions requiring a change in state/federal law requires a 2/3 majority of the voting delegates at Annual Convention, not the total membership.

A change to our bylaws also requires a 2/3 majority of voting delegates at our Annual Convention.

We will be posting on our website, hopefully by the end of the day, the resolutions that passed at our Convention.

I'd be happy to take any questions via email at aspray@mucc.org

It would be interesting to see the vote totals, both for and against, on all of the resolutions that were both passed & defeated at the convention. Are those figures going to be made available to the public?

[November Sunrise]

Keep in mind that all the crossbow debates at MUCC convention were the most emotional heated and time consuming resolutions. The heated debates started immediately upon arrival the first evening social hour before the convention even started. During convention all of your concerns and talking points were well covered over and over and over, and over........zzzzzzzzz. That included amendments and end run manuvers. We could get up, go to the restroom, have a cup coffee, read the news paper, and come back without missing anything new. We also could have gotten on the road back home Sunday much earlier if it wasn't for those crossbow debates.

Anyone who's read this forum can easily imagine the chicanery that took place in terms of trying to stop this vote from occurring. Nonetheless, I'm encouraged to hear that both sides of the issue were fully debated before the vote took place. This means that attendees had an extensive opportunity to hear both sides make their case. After a weekend of what you're describing, it is very telling that the vote was 56.8% in favor of full inclusion. There's a word that is commonly used when a ballot initiative receives such a high level of support - the term is landslide.

There's one thing I'm completely puzzled by though. How is it that the evil, greedy, money grubbing crossgun manufacturers have managed to so effectively implant their surrogates within MUCC??? I must say it appears they've infiltrated the entire membership ranks! :lol::lol:!!!!

[USST164]

Anyone who's read this forum can easily imagine the chicanery that took place in terms of trying to stop this vote from occurring. Nonetheless, I'm encouraged to hear that both sides of the issue were fully debated before the vote took place. This means that attendees had an extensive opportunity to hear both sides make their case. After a weekend of what you're describing, it is very telling that the vote was 56.8% in favor of full inclusion. There's a word that is commonly used when a ballot initiative receives such a high level of support - the term is landslide.

There's one thing I'm completely puzzled by though. How is it that the evil, greedy, money grubbing crossgun manufacturers have managed to so effectively implant their surrogates within MUCC??? I must say it appears they've infiltrated the entire membership ranks! :lol::lol:!!!!

" Evil,greedy,money grubbing crossgun manufacturers " is that the new anti-crossbow buzz phrase , next I'll hear the gun grabbing leftist commie pinko's of the Democratic Party do a smear job about an individual's constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Oh wait , those scumbags blame the " Gun Lobby" for all of societies woes.

Nice to see the numbers of the MUCC affiliates come more in line with the truth in lower numbers.

[Leader]

................ After a weekend of what you're describing, it is very telling that the vote was 56.8% in favor of full inclusion. There's a word that is commonly used when a ballot initiative receives such a high level of support - the term is landslide.

...................:lol::lol:!!!!

Landslide???? I would call 6.8% (less then 1 in 10) just barely passing.

[butter21]

Landslide???? I would call 6.8% (less then 1 in 10) just barely passing.
Good thing it needs a 2/3 ratio to pass!

[TOW]

Landslide???? I would call 6.8% (less then 1 in 10) just barely passing.

LOL...politicians would kill to get that kind of support in an election....

[butter21]

LOL...politicians would kill to get that kind of support in an election....
Yes thats b/c they would have won...Its not a LANDSLIDE victory though.

[NoWake]

Think we can get 6 pages arguing about what defines a landslide now. :p

[November Sunrise]

Think we can get 6 pages arguing about what defines a landslide now. :p

Yes, I do!!

[TOW]

Think we can get 6 pages arguing about what defines a landslide now. :p

Probably... some people like to use semantics to make their case... which more times than naught, fail. ;)

[ridgewalker]

It is good to see honest debate by MUCC over this bill. If the bill does nothing more than this I feel it would have accomplished an important goal. I have Parkinson's and am disabled on my left side, despite this I have not been able to get a permit for some years. Drs say that the present standard is either too narrow or too vague so I have not been able to bowhunt since 2003 and believe me I miss it. Crossbow use during rifle season is not the answer. I thought the MUCC was totally against this bill so it was good to see that at least a majority saw value in it!

[Leader]

I don't see that it really matters. The majority still want it. Butter is still in the minority. More people agree with us then him.

[November Sunrise]

Landslide???? I would call 6.8% (less then 1 in 10) just barely passing.

:lol:!!

I provide math tutoring for free to those in need.

Get out your calculator.

Punch in 56.8 (that would the percentage of yes votes).

Hit the divide button.

Punch in 43.2 (that would be the percentage of no votes).

Hit the equal button.

If your calculator is anything like mine it will read 1.314814814.

That means the yes votes exceeded the no votes by 32.5%.

If you need additional help with the calculations please let me know. I'm here for you;).

[November Sunrise]

It is good to see honest debate by MUCC over this bill. If the bill does nothing more than this I feel it would have accomplished an important goal. I have Parkinson's and am disabled on my left side, despite this I have not been able to get a permit for some years. Drs say that the present standard is either too narrow or too vague so I have not been able to bowhunt since 2003 and believe me I miss it. Crossbow use during rifle season is not the answer. I thought the MUCC was totally against this bill so it was good to see that at least a majority saw value in it!

Welcome to the site Ridgewalker.

Completely putting aside the inclusion for all considerations for a moment,
keep in mind that there's a Natural Resource Commission Workgroup that has been reworking the criteria for crossbow approval for those with disabilities. I'm not clear exactly how it's going to end up, but all indications are that it's going to be a much more equitable standard than the nonsensical standards that are currently in place. The fact that in your circumstance you haven't qualified for a permit is a shame. Keep your chin up and I think that one way or another this thing is going to turn out better for you.

[NoWake]

:lol:!!

I provide math tutoring for free to those in need.



Since your offering, I've got a little problem I'm currently working on. It's a little off topic so please forgive me.

I am in the process of figuring shrinkage and warpage for a molded plastic part so I can apply the appropriate windage in the mold design.

The material is a standard type 6 nylon with a 30% glass fill. Shrink is given at .007 / inch. Pretty cut and dry so far, but here lies the twisties. The customer wants it gated (filled) from one end and it is quite a long and narrow part. About an 8 to 1 ratio. Mold flow analysis show glass grain to be about 78% in the longitudinal direction, which will lessen shrink by another .06% in that direction. So far so good, but only 12% of the remaining 22% of the glass fibers are perpendicular, with 10% being at various angles in between. What is my average shrink factor? and will using the average shrink keep my +/- 0.003 tolerances?:dizzy:

More information and warpage questions to follow. :)

[10PtCrossbow]

Since your offering, I've got a little problem I'm currently working on. It's a little off topic so please forgive me.

I am in the process of figuring shrinkage and warpage for a molded plastic part so I can apply the appropriate windage in the mold design.

The material is a standard type 6 nylon with a 30% glass fill. Shrink is given at .007 / inch. Pretty cut and dry so far, but here lies the twisties. The customer wants it gated (filled) from one end and it is quite a long and narrow part. About an 8 to 1 ratio. Mold flow analysis show glass grain to be about 78% in the longitudinal direction, which will lessen shrink by another .06% in that direction. So far so good, but only 12% of the remaining 22% of the glass fibers are perpendicular, with 10% being at various angles in between. What is my average shrink factor? and will using the average shrink keep my +/- 0.003 tolerances?:dizzy:

More information and warpage questions to follow. :)

I am for certain train A will get there before train B!:dizzy:

[November Sunrise]

Since your offering, I've got a little problem I'm currently working on. It's a little off topic so please forgive me.

I am in the process of figuring shrinkage and warpage for a molded plastic part so I can apply the appropriate windage in the mold design.

The material is a standard type 6 nylon with a 30% glass fill. Shrink is given at .007 / inch. Pretty cut and dry so far, but here lies the twisties. The customer wants it gated (filled) from one end and it is quite a long and narrow part. About an 8 to 1 ratio. Mold flow analysis show glass grain to be about 78% in the longitudinal direction, which will lessen shrink by another .06% in that direction. So far so good, but only 12% of the remaining 22% of the glass fibers are perpendicular, with 10% being at various angles in between. What is my average shrink factor? and will using the average shrink keep my +/- 0.003 tolerances?:dizzy:

More information and warpage questions to follow. :)

I find your question, Mr. No Wake, to be too easy, therefore I shall abstain from providing you with the self evident answer.

And specific to your final sentence, I'd ask that in the future you please refrain from sneakily implying that I suffer from warped thinking. Such thoughts are the exclusive domain of my wife and her territory shall not be infringed upon. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

[ridgewalker]

Thanks Sunrise, it would indeed be a geat privilege beyond belief for me to bowhunt even though I am now limited to ground hunting. The fall is the greatest time of year and I long to be a part of that season again.

[Diver2]

:lol:!!

I provide math tutoring for free to those in need.

Get out your calculator.

Punch in 56.8 (that would the percentage of yes votes).

Hit the divide button.

Punch in 43.2 (that would be the percentage of no votes).

Hit the equal button.

If your calculator is anything like mine it will read 1.314814814.

That means the yes votes exceeded the no votes by 32.5%.

If you need additional help with the calculations please let me know. I'm here for you;).

Please explain further...

[November Sunrise]

Please explain further...

I would if I could, but if I do No Wake has threatened me with further mathematical juxtapositions that will just further reinforce the fact that he's smarter than me when it comes to fax and figgerz. I can't handle any further humiliation.

By the way, welcome to the site. What say ye - are crossbows the greatest thing since sliced bread, or are they in fact EVIL?

[Diver2]

Thanks for the welcome, been lurking here for a few years. I'm not sure where I stand on crossbows yet, so I can't put up an argument either way. I'll continue to be a bowhunter no matter what is decided.

[November Sunrise]

Thanks for the welcome, been lurking here for a few years. I'm not sure where I stand on crossbows yet, so I can't put up an argument either way. I'll continue to be a bowhunter no matter what is decided.

As you make up your mind, keep in mind that if you join the ranks of the All American clean cut pro crossbow guys the perks include free travel, discount shopping, and (I'll need to type very quietly now) we have a secret arrangement with the crossbow manufacturers where they're paying us $1,000/post to trumpet their cause. That's why I waste hours/day on here - when it comes right down to it I'm really just a traditionalist - a stick, string, and loin cloth is all I've really ever needed - but the money to shill for the crossgun guys is so good that I just can't resist.

On the other hand, if you eventually join forces with the anti's, my understanding is that there's a secret handshake that you'll need to master in order to gain entrance into their pow-wows. Several have also reported that Swamp Ghost administers some type of initiation ritual, but since he's gone fishing for a couple days that will be a topic that we'll just need to table for now. I've heard a few things about his routine, but since this is a family site, I'll refrain from sharing what I've been told.

Once again, welcome to the site:).

[Diver2]

Wow, decisions decisions. I best not take this too lightly. Thanks for some of the inside info.

[TOW]

Wow, decisions decisions. I best not take this too lightly. Thanks for some of the inside info.

Follow the money.. ;)

[aspray]

Welcome to the site Ridgewalker.

Completely putting aside the inclusion for all considerations for a moment,
keep in mind that there's a Natural Resource Commission Workgroup that has been reworking the criteria for crossbow approval for those with disabilities. I'm not clear exactly how it's going to end up, but all indications are that it's going to be a much more equitable standard than the nonsensical standards that are currently in place. The fact that in your circumstance you haven't qualified for a permit is a shame. Keep your chin up and I think that one way or another this thing is going to turn out better for you.

MUCC was a member of the NRC workgroup and I feel that the group did a great job of coming to consensus on a new permitting process that is much more inclusive and easier to understand for both the medical community and the applicant. The NRC will be taking it up for information only on July 10 and action in August. You can view the recommended Wildlife Conservation Order through the link on their July agenda. Basically its much more "black and white", PTs/OTs can use a simulated drawback test or a physician has much more flexibility in granting one for other conditions (cardiac, prior surgery, severe arthritis etc.)

Going back through our past resolutions since the 60s (which govern the policies I work to implement), MUCC has not established a position either for or against the use of crossbows during archery season, but they have had heated and lengthy discussions as Hamilton indicated. We do have policy and can support the use of crossbows when it does not conflict with archery season (during firearm seasons).

[Michihunter]

Politispeak at its finest!!:lol: They aren't saying they're "against" xbows during archery season, merely that they support the use of them during firearms season. Is that an "official" position?

[hoyt001]

THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!CROSSBOWS DO NOT BELONG IN THE GENERAL ARCHERY SEASON,B.C. THEY'RE MORE OF A "SHORT RANGE GUN" THAN A BOW:lol:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!