Crossbow Bill Passes Full House

[bradymsu]

HB 5741, overwhelmingly passed the full House today to allow for full inclusion of crossbows on a vote of 94-14-2. Passing with well above the the 2/3rd threshold, the bill was given immediate effect. Two attempts to amend the bill for less than full inclusion failed to gain support. This is a historic moment for Michigan hunting!

[wally-eye]

I wish to thank you for all your assistance concerning this issue. Yes it is a good day.........and one that won't have any negative affect on the resource.

[Joe Archer]

So anyone who wishes to hunt with a crossbow during any season will be able to so this fall?
<----<<<

[Riva]

94-14 Great News for Michigan!

[srconnell22]

Dear Michigan Crossbow Supporters:

HB 5741, overwhelmingly passed the full House today to allow for full inclusion of crossbows on a vote of 94-14-2. Passing with well above the the 2/3rds threshold, the bill was given immediate effect. Two attempts to amend the bill for less than full inclusion failed to gain support. This is a historic moment for Michigan hunting. Thanks to all of you who sent e-mails in support of the bill to your legislators. Now, on to the Senate!

Sincerely,

Joel Sheltrown
State Representative
103rd House District

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

everyone in michigan wins:woohoo1: EXCEPT about 900 oh well. i believe we call this MAJORITY RULES!:woohoo1::D:grouphug:

[Swamp Ghost]

And that's that......

I'm going to go buy my:

http://www.strykerxbow.com/images/stryker.gif


LOL! :lol:

NOT!

[bradymsu]

The 94-14-2 means 94 "yes", 14 "no" and 2 not voting.

The bill now heads to the Senate. Senate passage this year is far from guaranteed, not because the bill lacks support in the Senate but because there is little time left in the legislative session year. It may need to be re-introduced in January. After the Senate, the bill would need to be signed by Governor Granholm. Given that the DNR is not oppossed to the bill and the expected economic benefit to the state and DNR, the Governor's approval is very likely.

[Swamp Ghost]

The 94-14-2 means 94 "yes", 14 "no" and 2 not voting.

The bill now heads to the Senate. Senate passage this year is far from guaranteed, not because the bill lacks support in the Senate but because there is little time left in the legislative session year. It may need to be re-introduced in January. After the Senate, the bill would need to be signed by Governor Granholm. Given that the DNR is not oppossed to the bill and the expected economic benefit to the state and DNR, the Governor's approval is very likely.

Unless there really is no economic benefit, but we'll let the Senate decide if there really is.

I thought it was about choice and opportunity? :dizzy:

[Joe Archer]

And that's that......

I'm going to go buy my:

http://www.strykerxbow.com/images/stryker.gif


LOL! :lol:

NOT!

From BradyMSU's reply, it sounds like you will have over a year to practice with it before you actually get to try it in hunting situations. I only wish all the new archery hunters to be would be as conscientious as you!
<----<<<

[Swamp Ghost]

From BradyMSU's reply, it sounds like you will have over a year to practice with it before you actually get to try it in hunting situations. I only wish all the new archery hunters to be would be as conscientious as you!
<----<<<


Awwww, darn! :D

[Riva]

Unless there really is no economic benefit, but we'll let the Senate decide if there really is.

I thought it was about choice and opportunity? :dizzy:

Choice = YES!

Opportunity = YES!

Economic Benefit = YES!
- more license sales
- more sales tax
- more industry-related jobs
- bigger share of excise tax redistribution
- more resident spending
- more non-residents spending

All very serious and compelling considerations for any legislator to ponder!

[Swamp Ghost]

Choice = YES!

Opportunity = YES!

Economic Benefit = YES!
- more license sales
- more sales tax
- more industry-related jobs
- bigger share of excise tax redistribution
- more resident spending
- more non-residents spending

All very serious and compelling considerations for any legislator to ponder!

Compelling yes, if it were all true.

[bradymsu]

For those who are NRA members, please know that the NRA announced before the vote that it supports full inclusion. Its concern is hunter retention and the promotion of hunting. The national trend is toward full inclusion of crossbow in all seasons and many states are shedding old disability and age requirements in favor of full inclusion. What's happening in other states is that once full inclusion takes place, roughly 20%-40% of archery hunters move to crossbows. The typical male bowhunter in his 20s-40s continues to prefer compounds in those states.

[lang49]

Choice = YES!

Opportunity = YES!

Economic Benefit = YES!
- more license sales
- more sales tax
- more industry-related jobs
- bigger share of excise tax redistribution
- more resident spending
- more non-residents spending

All very serious and compelling considerations for any legislator to ponder!

With all these benefits, will you be using a crossbow to hunt turkey if this bill passes?? I bet not...in fact, I bet very few will.

Heck, if this bill passes, I bet crossbow use during rifle season is going to plummet. Anybody care to speculate why?? :rolleyes:

[bigcountrysg]

Well I guess I might have to look at some crossbows now.

[BigBirdVA]

94-14-2 ? ? ? ....... Reminds me of the results of most surveys done on xbow use. :p :lol: :p

You have to love it when the politicians actions actually match public opinion.

[dsconnell]

"I would guess a 20% chance of Senate passage this year. Not because it lacks support in the Senate, but the Senate will only be in for a few more weeks this year and the schedule is fragmented. Next week, summer break, 2 weeks in September, 2 weeks in December. The bill may need to be reintroduced in January. However we have clearly shown that full inclusion has overwhelming support."

I sent an email back to Joel Sheltrown and he responded within 10 minutes from his blackberry at that!! Above is his response.

I had basically asked how long it would take to get through the Senate and if this would likely be put in place this year..

[marty]

Now I got to buy more stock in the crossbow industry for sure:D

[tjstebb]

this is GREAT news for michigan sportsman...now we can all unite and be one big happy bow hunting family again! WARM HUGS FOR ALL BOWHUNTERS IN MICHIGAN...:D:D:D

TJSTEBB

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

With all these benefits, will you be using a crossbow to hunt turkey if this bill passes?? I bet not...in fact, I bet very few will.

Heck, if this bill passes, I bet crossbow use during rifle season is going to plummet. Anybody care to speculate why?? :rolleyes:

I WILL AND I DID THIS YEAR.:D
i think that speculation thing is what keep total inclusion in the dark for soo long. do you care to speculate

[Munsterlndr]

With all these benefits, will you be using a crossbow to hunt turkey if this bill passes?? I bet not...in fact, I bet very few will.

Heck, if this bill passes, I bet crossbow use during rifle season is going to plummet. Anybody care to speculate why?? :rolleyes:

I'll be using a crossbow for Turkey hunting next year if this passes. Hopefully, if I get the opportunity, I'll make a clean shot of it, too.

Of course, if not I could always do like one of the MTB boys who spoke in front of the house committee last week did this spring, wound the bird with my bow and then end up having to shoot it with a firearm to kill it. He was so proud of the fact that he posted it on his web site. :rolleyes: I guess he only carries one arrow when Turkey hunting.

Crossbow use plummeting during firearms season? Probably for the same reason that about 90% of bow hunters lay down their bows and pick up a firearm during those two weeks. Ya think?

[beervo2]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lang49 http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2165107#post2165107)
With all these benefits, will you be using a crossbow to hunt turkey if this bill passes?? I bet not...in fact, I bet very few will.




I sure as hell will, have the last 2yrs!!!

[walrus]

Please can we drop the quibbling,this part is over! If we spent as mush time writing our Senators as we do *itching at each other, we just might get them off of their collective posteriors and get this thing overwith! :smile-mad

[marty]

Please can we drop the quibbling,this part is over! If we spent as mush time writing our Senators as we do *itching at each other, we just might get them off of their collective posteriors and get this thing overwith! :smile-mad

he he he now that's a good idea:lol:

[sbooy42]

this is GREAT news for michigan sportsman...now we can all unite and be one big happy bow hunting family again! WARM HUGS FOR ALL BOWHUNTERS IN MICHIGAN...:D:D:D

TJSTEBB
yep great news for hunters:rolleyes:
you must be confused though bowhunters hunt with bows....;)
I think you posted your last statement in the wrong forum:D
see-ya on Tuesday...sorry no x-bows:yikes: lol

[lang49]

Brady,

Why are Dave Hildenbrand, Neal Nitz, Howard Walker, Gary McDowell, Steven Lindberg, and Darwin Booher (my rep), no longer co-sponsors of the bill??

Thanks,
Andrew

[awshucks]

yep great news for hunters
you must be confused though bowhunters hunt with bows....
I think you posted your last statement in the wrong forum
see-ya on Tuesday...sorry no x-bows HAHA

Lots of confusion here these days, lol

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/image.php?u=23804&dateline=1211418256 (http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/member.php?u=23804) sbooy42 (http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/member.php?u=23804) http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_2159296", true);
Guide
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/ranks/deer.gifhttp://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/ranks/deer.gifhttp://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/ranks/deer.gifhttp://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/ranks/deer.gif
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: torch lake area
Posts: 598 Photos: 12http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/buttons/camera.gif (http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/../photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=23804)



http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
Yes Steve
thanks for give'n em a place to talk, it will be nice not sifting through the BS

[Whit1]

Please can we drop the quibbling,this part is over! If we spent as mush time writing our Senators as we do *itching at each other, we just might get them off of their collective posteriors and get this thing overwith! :smile-mad

This is absolutely one of the best pieces of advice to everyone, pro-crossbow inclusion or against.

Bravo to you Mr. Walrus!!!!

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

Please can we drop the quibbling,this part is over! If we spent as mush time writing our Senators as we do *itching at each other, we just might get them off of their collective posteriors and get this thing overwith! :smile-mad

been there and done that ! not only did that but, seeing as how i am a carpenter and belong to one of, if not the strongest union in the state of michigan. i'll also be throwing our p.a.c. clout in the arena. and if you have any dought to the political clout the carpenters union has ask your representatives and senators.
Today 10:13 PM

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

Brady,

Why are Dave Hildenbrand, Neal Nitz, Howard Walker, Gary McDowell, Steven Lindberg, and Darwin Booher (my rep), no longer co-sponsors of the bill??

Thanks,
Andrew

if he is your rep why don't you try calling him and ask him that very simple question yourself? it doesn't sound like that difficult of a question, i am sure he could handle it.:evilsmile

[swampbuck]

Sheltrown for governor! :D

[November Sunrise]

Great news!!

[bradymsu]

Lang, those representatives took their names off as co-sponsors because they voted against full inclusion. Many were taking a lot of heat from the MBH. On the other hand, a number of legislators who supported full inclusion and didn't vote for the original bill added their names as co-sponsors. I think we gained more than we lost.

Swampbuck, I very much appreciate your support for Joel. But Governor?! Joel's just a redneck saxophone player from northern Michigan. Besides we already get enough hate mail from the PETA, HSUS and ALF terrorists and now the anti-crossbow people as well. We don't need to add the wackos on the far-right and far-left to the list!

For the anti-crossbow people, know that we recognize you as fellow hunters and understand the threat you feel from crossbows. I've been told this is very similar to what happened when compound bows were included a few decades back. Change is never easy. But it is sometimes necessary for our long-term survival. The most controversial legislation often ends up becoming our most cherished laws. We've reviewed all the arguments and the data from both sides on this issue and have come to the conclusion that full inclusion is inevitable and the way to go. Far better to have a legislator who is a deer hunter and is generally seen as non-partisan do this now than have it get mucked up in Lansing politics later. It's unfortuante we had to go against the MBH on crossbows but we recognize the history of this issue and the very difficult position their leadership is in. No disrespect was ever meant to the MBH in the process. I can honestly say we've had quite a few MBH members tell us they support full inclusion despite the official position of the group. And I believe in the long run both the MBH and bow hunting in general will come out as the big winners from full inclusion once they come around to welcoming crossbow hunters into their ranks as equals. The crossbow and anti-crossbow people aren't enemies, they're brothers with a temporary disagreement they need to get over and be willing to live together as fellow hunters in a society that increasingly is becoming apathetic or even hostile to hunters regardless of the tool used to take game. Think I'm exaggerating? Talk to any trapper.

[Whit1]

For the anti-crossbow people, know that we recognize you as fellow hunters and understand the threat you feel from crossbows. I've been told this is very similar to what happened when compound bows were included a few decades back. Change is never easy. But it is sometimes necessary for our long-term survival. The most controversial legislation often ends up becoming our most cherished laws. We've reviewed all the arguments and the data from both sides on this issue and have come to the conclusion that full inclusion is inevitable and the way to go. Far better to have a legislator who is a deer hunter and is generally seen as non-partisan do this now than have it get mucked up in Lansing politics later. It's unfortuante we had to go against the MBH on crossbows but we recognize the history of this issue and the very difficult position their leadership is in. No disrespect was ever meant to the MBH in the process. I can honestly say we've had quite a few MBH members tell us they support full inclusion despite the official position of the group. And I believe in the long run both the MBH and bow hunting in general will come out as the big winners from full inclusion once they come around to welcoming crossbow hunters into their ranks as equals. The crossbow and anti-crossbow people aren't enemies, they're brothers with a temporary disagreement they need to get over and be willing to live together as fellow hunters in a society that increasingly is becoming apathetic or even hostile to hunters regardless of the tool used to take game. Think I'm exaggerating? Talk to any trapper.


It can't be said any better than that!

[sbooy42]

Lots of confusion here these days, lol

Got that right..
Did you write your MI state rep?:dizzy:
I did:evilsmile

[Buckeye Dan]

I hope you get your full inclusion. I couldn't help but notice some of the anti and pro arguments going back and forth. One side talking about all the gadgets and technological advances of the compound bow. The other side talking about how lazy or easy the crossbow was to use. Also the skill required to set up a compound bow and the practice required to become efficient with it. I mean look at all the gadgetry on a compound bow the arrow rest, the release options, the compensator, the pulleys and cams, the nocks and peep sights and all of the different sighting configurations. The MBH win this argument. The compound bows of today are very difficult to setup and use in a humane manner for taking game. SO much so in order to be eligible for consideration for using as a hunting weapon they must have attended a state-approved hunter safety course, must have passed an archery proficiency test and must have documented bow hunting experience. Crossbows will be excluded from this because they are reliable and easy to shoot therefore allowing for the animals to be harvested in a humane manner.

I said it before and I'll say it again. You might as well put on a loin cloth and start sharpening your pointed sticks now. The anti hunter groups love to divide and conquer the hunting community. It keeps us busy while they slowly take your other rights away. The animal rights activists love to divide and conquer too. "Have a soy burger we made it taste just like venison" We are all of the hunting brotherhood so lets start acting like brothers. We all need to be thankful that (insert your higher power here if you have one) gave us a fruitful bounty for all hunters to have an equal opportunity to harvest their quarry. At the end of the hunt those back straps taste the same to me as they would to any other hunter using any method of harvest and arrived at my table with the same difficulty.

And yes the part about archery proficiency tests and such was me making a silly point. Us true members of the hunting brotherhood that decide to use crossbows would never propose such a silly notion. The American Crossbow Federation said it best: "The American Crossbow Federation has always supported ALL legal forms of hunting with ALL legal weapons. We DO NOT discriminate against other hunters because they don’t do it the way we do."

Again good luck to you crossbow fans to the north. Keep the spirit alive!

[Great White Hunter]

Why is it everytime hunter's don't agree someone says "that's what the anti's want". Just because it's a type of hunting does not mean that it's good for every state. So if the house passes a bill on chain saws for whitetail I should support it because it's hunting?

Cross bows will not bring in out of state hunters. Why would you come here and shoot a 1 1/2 with a cross bow when you can go to another state with bigger deer and do the same?

This is also not a good idea for youth hunters. Here point and shoot. Wow they learn a lot from that.

More money from sales... And our hunter money has gone to making Michigan the fine hunting state that is has become up to this point.

And no crossbow hunter is a fellow Bowhunter of mine. Bowhunters use bows you use guns!

[boehr]

Why is it everytime hunter's don't agree someone says "that's what the anti's want". Just because it's a type of hunting does not mean that it's good for every state. So if the house passes a bill on chain saws for whitetail I should support it because it's hunting?I don't believe anyone here that supports crossbows are doing it for the sole purpose that it passed the house no more than I believe anyone is opposed to crossbows because it passed the house. Not a very good arguement.:rolleyes:

Cross bows will not bring in out of state hunters. Why would you come here and shoot a 1 1/2 with a cross bow when you can go to another state with bigger deer and do the same?

This is also not a good idea for youth hunters. Here point and shoot. Wow they learn a lot from that.

More money from sales... And our hunter money has gone to making Michigan the fine hunting state that is has become up to this point.It is unfortunate for you if you have never seen anything but a 1 1/2 year old bucks but there are plenty of older ones out there. Also, if it will not bring in more hunters then what money from more sales are you talking about? Seems that there is some confusion in your statement. Of course I would never say that crossbows should be legal just to bring in more hunters or sell more licenses. I believe they should be legal for many other reasons that have been stated.

And no crossbow hunter is a fellow Bowhunter of mine. Bowhunters use bows you use guns!That is unfortunate for you then because you have a number of hunters that you do not consider friends and all those hunters just have one, you, that they probably don't consider a friend.:eek:

Glad to see it passed the house. Hope it goes all the way.

[Buckeye Dan]

Why is it everytime hunter's don't agree someone says "that's what the anti's want".

Uhm...That's because it is factual. Please look up and learn the divide and conquer concept in your history books.

And no crossbow hunter is a fellow Bowhunter of mine. Bowhunters use bows you use guns!

Hrm maybe this guy should be required to complete the criteria: Must have attended a state-approved hunter safety course, must have passed an archery proficiency test and must have documented bow hunting experience.

Great White just stop. Please explain why my bow that stays cocked in a ready to fire position is so intrusive to your idea of bow hunting. We both require the same amount of stealth and experience to get within range of our quarry. Yes you have to draw your weapon in it's (the quarry) presence and I do not. If thats all there is to the age old bow vs crossbow argument then I think I can accommodate you. What if I personally only cocked and nocked my arrow after targeting my quarry. Would that help to balance the playing field based on your views? Full crossbow inclusion to archery season in MI but you may not travel with a cocked and nocked bow unless you are targeting an animal. I think I could pull that off. It's way more difficult to cock and nock a crossbow with an animal present than it is with a bow. Crossbows tend to be noisy by nature when cocking and the movement for nocking an arrow is identical.

Great White if I promise to only cock and nock on target would that satisfy your criteria?
I ask this because I am a former bow hunter and a new crossbow hunter. My skill level of HUNTING would allow me to meet this criteria. I think I can mask my movements and mask the sound of my crossbow being cocked with some success. It will put me at a greater disadvantage than the conventional bow hunter but it is doable.
So where do you stand on that subject?

[Kurt4253]

Cross bows will not bring in out of state hunters. Why would you come here and shoot a 1 1/2 with a cross bow when you can go to another state with bigger deer and do the same?


I live in Washington state. I have a friend that has a cottage on 1000 Island lake in the UP. Every year for the last 10 years I go & spend time (& money) there enjoy the great outdoors Michigan has to offer. Looks like Michigan will now be getting some more of my money, - because I will most definitely be bring my crossbow with me to hunt the GREAT state of Michigan.

I want to THANK the great state of Michigan for providing my with one more opportunity to enjoy it great outdoors when I come to visit your state !!!!

Kurt

[BigBirdVA]

To hear all the anti's you take your xbow, hit the woods and shoot the first deer that comes by. Nothing to it huh? So are the compound guys having that much trouble hitting or drawing on deer or seeing deer within range? Do they really believe that you can shoot deer with an xbow at 50+ yards in the woods? My biggest reason for not getting a deer is getting one with a clear view of the vitals within 30 yds. Not drawing or aiming or any of the other things they dwell on that xbows are somehow immune to. You still have to move into a shooting position and hold and aim for the shot. It still requires movement, it's just different movement than drawing a bow. Xbows still arc, still have to know the range, still have to get Bambi 30 yds or less. It amazes me to hear garbage from people with zero first hand knowledge of hunting deer with an xbow blab how it's too easy. If it was the success rates wouldn't be the same and they would have their own season. They may actually believe all they spout but one day out with one is a big wake up that it's not a walk in the park or a ticket to a free deer. I used to think that too but found out differently real quick.


How many anti guys have actually hunted for deer with an xbow?

[Swamp Ghost]

For the anti-crossbow people, know that we recognize you as fellow hunters and understand the threat you feel from crossbows. I've been told this is very similar to what happened when compound bows were included a few decades back. Change is never easy. But it is sometimes necessary for our long-term survival. The most controversial legislation often ends up becoming our most cherished laws. We've reviewed all the arguments and the data from both sides on this issue and have come to the conclusion that full inclusion is inevitable and the way to go. Far better to have a legislator who is a deer hunter and is generally seen as non-partisan do this now than have it get mucked up in Lansing politics later. It's unfortuante we had to go against the MBH on crossbows but we recognize the history of this issue and the very difficult position their leadership is in. No disrespect was ever meant to the MBH in the process. I can honestly say we've had quite a few MBH members tell us they support full inclusion despite the official position of the group. And I believe in the long run both the MBH and bow hunting in general will come out as the big winners from full inclusion once they come around to welcoming crossbow hunters into their ranks as equals. The crossbow and anti-crossbow people aren't enemies, they're brothers with a temporary disagreement they need to get over and be willing to live together as fellow hunters in a society that increasingly is becoming apathetic or even hostile to hunters regardless of the tool used to take game. Think I'm exaggerating? Talk to any trapper.


You've been told it was similar? Nothing similar about it. This argument is about allowing a fundamentally different weapon into an established season.

Long term survival? Are you serious? This is not a long term solution, you are recruiting a few current hunters into one segment while we lose even more in others. Just ask OH.

This is a problem that won't solved or even curtailed with a weapon.

I certainly don't consider the crossbow and it's users enemies. One thing I do consider is that crossbowhunters are and will always be crossbowhunters participating in the same season with bowhunters.

Bowhunting coming out as a winner? Certainly hasn't been the case in OH. Where Crossbowhunters outnumber bowhunters 3:2 and crossbowhunter growth has exceeded bowhunter growth by 17x since crossbows were allowed. I fail to see how bowhunting is going to be a winner.

Apathetic? Probably, also sharing that apathy with a myriad of issues.

Hostile? Hardly, people that are hostile toward hunting are already considered wackos by the apathetic and represent a very small segment of the population.

This is not an anti-hunter/threat to hunting issue no matter how hard people would like it to be.

[tjstebb]

And no crossbow hunter is a fellow Bowhunter of mine. Bowhunters use bows you use guns!

BOLD AND VERY UNFORTUNATE FOR YOU....

tjstebb

[BigBirdVA]

You've been told it was similar? Nothing similar about it. This argument is about allowing a fundamentally different weapon into an established season.

.You forgot to add the word "looking" after the word different. Success rates, range and use are the same. You'll be over it by the end of next season when you see it didn't make any difference. Liken it to when you were a kid and you had to get a shot in the butt. It's for your own good but you probably cried your eyes out first. Difference is this doesn't hurt one bit. :yikes:


Much ado over nothing.

[webfarmer]

And no crossbow hunter is a fellow Bowhunter of mine. Bowhunters use bows you use guns!

Your comment is detrimental to all hunting sports. We as sportsmen must embrace all forms of hunting - not just the one we personally favor. I don't trap but I sure don't dislike trappers. They are part of our hunting brotherhood. I don't plan to hunt with a crossbow (well, maybe some day) but certainly celebrate those that plan to. I don't agree with Michigan Bow Hunter's stance yet I am a life member. I'm not going to complain to them because that is their opinion. It's silly that such a small group of people (when compared to the state population), with everything against us, cannot celebrate or at least condone all forms of legal hunting. Flame on.......

[TOW]

You've been told it was similar? Nothing similar about it. This argument is about allowing a fundamentally different weapon into an established season.



Do you really believe that compounds and recurves are fundamentally similar in shooting?

One has to shoot a recurve while all one has to do with a compund is aim it.

Yes, I have shot and killed game with recurves. longbows, compunds (2 , 4 and 6 wheels) and crossbws ( compound and recurve).

[Swamp Ghost]

Do you really believe that compounds and recurves are fundamentally similar in shooting?

One has to shoot a recurve while all one has to do with a compund is aim it.

Yes, I have shot and killed game with recurves. longbows, compunds (2 , 4 and 6 wheels) and crossbws ( compound and recurve).

Are recurves and compounds both draw to an anchor point on the archer's body and held at full draw by the archer's strength?

If the the answer is "yes", they aren't just fundamentally similar, they are carbon copies.

I wonder why some recurve archers employ a sight? Is that aiming or shooting? Do some recurve and longbow shooters use the arrow shaft as a sighting plane? Is that aiming or shooting?

Just when you think you have heard it all......

[Joe Archer]

Shooting a recurve is very similar to shooting a compound. One key element they both contain is that accuracy is dependant on form. Correct archery form starts at your toes, and extends all the way to the top of your head. The style I use with my compound is so close to what I use with my recurve that I can easily go back and forth. I would say that instinctive shooting my recurve actually improves my capabilities with my compound. In essence, there is not much difference in my mind between a recurve and a modern compound.
I shoot a crossbow almost exactly as I shoot my rifle. I place it on a good rest, hold the crosshairs on the target, and apply gentle pressure to the trigger until it goes off. Basically, if you can shoot a rifle accurately you can shoot a crossbow accurately.
In my mind crossbow hunters will never be bow hunters, but it really doesn't matter! They will be nonetheless deer hunters, and they will have great experiences in the woods. I am sure I will call many friends, and equally sure I will enjoy hearing of their encounters as I have enjoyed hearing of all methods of past successful hunts.
Welcome to the early fall woods!
<----<<<

[Swamp Ghost]

In my mind crossbow hunters will never be bow hunters, but it really doesn't matter! They will be nonetheless deer hunters, and they will have great experiences in the woods. I am sure I will call many friends, and equally sure I will enjoy hearing of their encounters as I have enjoyed hearing of all methods of past successful hunts.


I not only will call them friends, some of them already are my friends and one happens to be my Dad. They already are deer hunters, they just have no desire to pursue bowhunting and everything that is involved with it. But they will jump at the chance of hunting with a crossbow in bowseason.

That will never sit right with me.

But if it's allowed I'll accept them as a fellow hunter, but never as a bowhunter.

If it passes Archery season 2009 is going to be a very bad year for 1.5 year old bucks.

But we can look at this way, maybe gun season 2009 won't be so crowded. I gotta feeling that these guys are really going to inflate the whole "only 5% of hunters fill their restricted combo tag" number.

[boehr]

If it passes Archery season 2009 is going to be a very bad year for 1.5 year old bucks.
Question? Are you saying with this statement that because a hunter chooses or is forced to use a crossbow during archery season that his/her ethics or morals would be or are any different then if they were hunting with a recurve or compound?

[TJD]

Question? Are you saying with this statement that because a hunter chooses or is forced to use a crossbow during archery season that his/her ethics or morals would be or are any different then if they were hunting with a recurve or compound?


Perhaps what he is saying is that it is already proven that Michigan hunters do a very poor job of letting 1.5 year old bucks walk and shooting antlerless deer instead.

Now, we'll be handing an easier to use weapon to the masses of hunters that have already been slaughtering 1.5 year old bucks under Michigan's current deer regulations which promote excessive buck harvests.

I would have loved to see OBR or MARS in our entire state prior to or along with this crossbow bill. Maybe it's just me, but I think it would nice to improve upon the quality of our state's hunting and make sound regulation changes, rather than adding new weapons to the existing problems.

I guess that the full inclusion of crossbows is considered a higher priority in this state than balanced buck to doe ratios and buck age structure. Does anybody wonder why so many guys are hunting out-of-state? Gotta love Michigan!

[Swamp Ghost]

Question? Are you saying with this statement that because a hunter chooses or is forced to use a crossbow during archery season that his/her ethics or morals would be or are any different then if they were hunting with a recurve or compound?

I am saying that they are going to be the same. Harvesting far more bucks than doe's.

Perhaps what he is saying is that it is already proven that Michigan hunters do a very poor job of letting 1.5 year old bucks walk and shooting antlerless deer instead.

Now, we'll be handing an easier to use weapon to the masses of hunters that have already been slaughtering 1.5 year old bucks under Michigan's current deer regulations which promote excessive buck harvests.

I would have loved to see OBR or MARS in our entire state prior to or along with this crossbow bill. Maybe it's just me, but I think it would nice to improve upon the quality of our state's hunting and make sound regulation changes, rather than adding new weapons to the existing problems.

I guess that the full inclusion of crossbows is considered a higher priority in this state than balanced buck to doe ratios and buck age structure. Does anybody wonder why so many guys are hunting out-of-state? Gotta love Michigan!

Pretty much sums it up.....

[wildcoy73]

Now I got to buy more stock in the crossbow industry for sure:D
thought you would have more sense than that. It will be a short live ride of a gain than a fall on the market as everyone finds out they are not the magic weapon so many are after.
But with all said go buy a few more ground blind We will have two little girls hunting next year:D.

[marty]

thought you would have more sense than that. It will be a short live ride of a gain than a fall on the market as everyone finds out they are not the magic weapon so many are after.
But with all said go buy a few more ground blind We will have two little girls hunting next year:D.

Bring them on I hope we nail the biggest buck around the whole county with a crossbow for them;) I can always sell my stock after the run:lol:

the person makes the bowhunter not the weapon. I got to believe that most of the people that will get into crossbow already bowhunt anyway so the impact would be nothing at all. would you say most people here would do both if xbows were legal??

So my neighbor wants to hunt with a crossbow instead of his PSE why should I care?? I know some people who can't hit a barn that should use a crossbow for deer hunting anyway;)

[swampbuck]

Swampbuck, I very much appreciate your support for Joel. But Governor?! Joel's just a redneck saxophone player from northern Michigan. Besides we already get enough hate mail from the PETA, HSUS and ALF terrorists and now the anti-crossbow people as well. We don't need to add the wackos on the far-right and far-left

Just a little joyfull exhuberence, SURE AM GLAD i DONT PLAY A SAX:lol: Really though he listens to his people and gets it done which is more than could be expected of the vast majority of politicians. Including the last 3 Governors. I know that 2 were democrats but still:lol:. And what about that one redneck sax player from hope, he made it all the way. probably not a very good example though. OK, governors out how about head of the NRC when he hits the term limit.:D

[swampbuck]

Perhaps what he is saying is that it is already proven that Michigan hunters do a very poor job of letting 1.5 year old bucks walk and shooting antlerless deer instead.

Now, we'll be handing an easier to use weapon to the masses of hunters that have already been slaughtering 1.5 year old bucks under Michigan's current deer regulations which promote excessive buck harvests.

I would have loved to see OBR or MARS in our entire state prior to or along with this crossbow bill. Maybe it's just me, but I think it would nice to improve upon the quality of our state's hunting and make sound regulation changes, rather than adding new weapons to the existing problems.

I guess that the full inclusion of crossbows is considered a higher priority in this state than balanced buck to doe ratios and buck age structure. Does anybody wonder why so many guys are hunting out-of-state? Gotta love Michigan!

do you realize that obr is/was the second biggest issue that the MBH has been lobbying against!!! maybe now that they have been brought down to size,the NRC might consider it.

[Swamp Ghost]

OK, governors out how about head of the NRC when he hits the term limit.:D


Yeah, then he can implement his 3 antlerless tag limit again....:rolleyes:

[ART]

Why is it everytime hunter's don't agree someone says "that's what the anti's want". Just because it's a type of hunting does not mean that it's good for every state. So if the house passes a bill on chain saws for whitetail I should support it because it's hunting?

Cross bows will not bring in out of state hunters. Why would you come here and shoot a 1 1/2 with a cross bow when you can go to another state with bigger deer and do the same?

This is also not a good idea for youth hunters. Here point and shoot. Wow they learn a lot from that.

More money from sales... And our hunter money has gone to making Michigan the fine hunting state that is has become up to this point.

And no crossbow hunter is a fellow Bowhunter of mine. Bowhunters use bows you use guns!
What a well thought out statement:dizzy:!
You are an elitist- you won't be happy until everybody lines up behind you and does it YOUR way.
Hunting is a highly personal thing, and I get great satisfaction out of using a variety of weapons. I have killed deer with a crossbow as well as most of the other legal tools in Michigan.
And no crossbow hunter is a fellow Bowhunter of mine. Bowhunters use bows you use guns!
I have killed more deer with a regular bow than with a crossbow- does that make me a sometimes friend?
Elitism is so divisive!

[swampbuck]

Yeah, then he can implement his 3 antlerless tag limit again....:rolleyes:

I get the feeling you dont like him:lol: Maybe when the mbh is history, You could join the Higgins lake lakefront assoc. Thats the original anti Sheltrown club;)

[Swamp Ghost]

I get the feeling you dont like him:lol: Maybe when the mbh is history, You could join the Higgins lake lakefront assoc. Thats the original anti Sheltrown club;)

You may think so, but this legislation may just bolster their 2008-2009 numbers once more bowhunters get wind of it.

Politicians and lawyers are two I could do without.

[anon3292009]

"We as sportsmen must embrace all forms of hunting - not just the one we personally favor."

Baloney!!! I never did and never will accept that philosophy. We are individuals and have a right to support or reject any form of game harvesting we choose to. I have hunted(and trapped and fished) almost all of my long life. There are forms of hunting I participate in, forms I don't participate in but still choose to support, and a very few I do not support. I don't own a crossbow and don't plan on buying one, but I support it's use as a weapon of choice. On this thread that sits well. If, however, my position was given on a form of hunting that I do not support I would quickly be criticized as an anti-hunting traitor by some. The concept that we must ALL be FOR every form of hunting or we will lose them all is nonsense.

[TheNatural]

Uhm...That's because it is factual. Please look up and learn the divide and conquer concept in your history books.



Hrm maybe this guy should be required to complete the criteria: Must have attended a state-approved hunter safety course, must have passed an archery proficiency test and must have documented bow hunting experience.

Great White just stop. Please explain why my bow that stays cocked in a ready to fire position is so intrusive to your idea of bow hunting. We both require the same amount of stealth and experience to get within range of our quarry. Yes you have to draw your weapon in it's (the quarry) presence and I do not. If thats all there is to the age old bow vs crossbow argument then I think I can accommodate you. What if I personally only cocked and nocked my arrow after targeting my quarry. Would that help to balance the playing field based on your views? Full crossbow inclusion to archery season in MI but you may not travel with a cocked and nocked bow unless you are targeting an animal. I think I could pull that off. It's way more difficult to cock and nock a crossbow with an animal present than it is with a bow. Crossbows tend to be noisy by nature when cocking and the movement for nocking an arrow is identical.

Great White if I promise to only cock and nock on target would that satisfy your criteria?
I ask this because I am a former bow hunter and a new crossbow hunter. My skill level of HUNTING would allow me to meet this criteria. I think I can mask my movements and mask the sound of my crossbow being cocked with some success. It will put me at a greater disadvantage than the conventional bow hunter but it is doable.
So where do you stand on that subject?
we also want you to hold it with your hands and not lean or stabalize it on something like a gun look through your sights not scope like a gun and be a little quieter on your release.:coolgleam

[TheNatural]

I live in Washington state. I have a friend that has a cottage on 1000 Island lake in the UP. Every year for the last 10 years I go & spend time (& money) there enjoy the great outdoors Michigan has to offer. Looks like Michigan will now be getting some more of my money, - because I will most definitely be bring my crossbow with me to hunt the GREAT state of Michigan.

I want to THANK the great state of Michigan for providing my with one more opportunity to enjoy it great outdoors when I come to visit your state !!!!

Kurt
so you've already been giving us your money but real bow hunting is to hard or xbow is just a bit easier.

[TheNatural]

You forgot to add the word "looking" after the word different. Success rates, range and use are the same. You'll be over it by the end of next season when you see it didn't make any difference. Liken it to when you were a kid and you had to get a shot in the butt. It's for your own good but you probably cried your eyes out first. Difference is this doesn't hurt one bit. :yikes:


Much ado over nothing.
and you have those statistics from an earlier xbow season in mich., i must have mist it. if it passes we will see how it will hurt the deer behavior.

[TheNatural]

Your comment is detrimental to all hunting sports. We as sportsmen must embrace all forms of hunting - not just the one we personally favor. I don't trap but I sure don't dislike trappers. They are part of our hunting brotherhood. I don't plan to hunt with a crossbow (well, maybe some day) but certainly celebrate those that plan to. I don't agree with Michigan Bow Hunter's stance yet I am a life member. I'm not going to complain to them because that is their opinion. It's silly that such a small group of people (when compared to the state population), with everything against us, cannot celebrate or at least condone all forms of legal hunting. Flame on.......
the hell i do. if i dont view it as hunting than their is no way i have to support it. if their is a way of killing an animal non hunters dont like and neither do i than i guess we see eye to eye.

[TheNatural]

Do you really believe that compounds and recurves are fundamentally similar in shooting?

One has to shoot a recurve while all one has to do with a compund is aim it.

Yes, I have shot and killed game with recurves. longbows, compunds (2 , 4 and 6 wheels) and crossbws ( compound and recurve).
did you forget to nock an arrow and draw or are you just talking about the only thing you have to do with a crossbow.

[wildcoy73]

With all these benefits, will you be using a crossbow to hunt turkey if this bill passes?? I bet not...in fact, I bet very few will.

Heck, if this bill passes, I bet crossbow use during rifle season is going to plummet. Anybody care to speculate why?? :rolleyes:
Lang:
Yes i will be using the crossbow for turkey hunting when this passes. As far as gun hunting, I have yet to see one person with a crossbow during the gun season so I do not see that number changing in any way. It might bring in more crossbows for gun season. the load boom will be gone, and that is a reason many of us take the bow out during the gun season. Plus lower income families could buy the cross bow and use it for 3 months verses spending sevral hundred for a gun that they can use for two weeks. sighn me up for the crossbow with little money in my wallet and short of time sound like the best for my money.

[TheNatural]

Question? Are you saying with this statement that because a hunter chooses or is forced to use a crossbow during archery season that his/her ethics or morals would be or are any different then if they were hunting with a recurve or compound?
no, saying that the morals and ethics that alot of gun hunters who only hunt two days a year will say hey i can go hunt during bow season with a gun now.

[TheNatural]

What a well thought out statement:dizzy:!
You are an elitist- you won't be happy until everybody lines up behind you and does it YOUR way.
Hunting is a highly personal thing, and I get great satisfaction out of using a variety of weapons. I have killed deer with a crossbow as well as most of the other legal tools in Michigan.

I have killed more deer with a regular bow than with a crossbow- does that make me a sometimes friend?
Elitism is so divisive!
havent met, but t does make you a sometimes fellow bowhunter.:evil:

[wildcoy73]

no, saying that the morals and ethics that alot of gun hunters who only hunt two days a year will say hey i can go hunt during bow season with a gun now.
Go sit in the pawn shop in the end of September and wath the bows fly off the shelf. you think just cuz this guy has a bow he has ethics? Go to walmart the night before the season and watch how many bows they sell that night, they have ethis? It does not matter on the weapon, and crossbows will not bring anymore of this into the feild than we already have.

[awshucks]

so you've already been giving us your money but real bow hunting is to hard or xbow is just a bit easier.

He's got a disability. Natural what?

[boehr]

I am saying that they are going to be the same. Harvesting far more bucks than doe's.


Pretty much sums it up.....So then that statement really has nothing to do with crossbows which this topic is about.

[boehr]

no, saying that the morals and ethics that alot of gun hunters who only hunt two days a year will say hey i can go hunt during bow season with a gun now.Same with this, not really about the topic at hand. Funny some don't want to call a crossbow a bow but do want to call it a gun. Sorry but a crossbow is not a gun.:rolleyes:

[butter21]

Same with this, not really about the topic at hand. Funny some don't want to call a crossbow a bow but do want to call it a gun. Sorry but a crossbow is not a gun.:rolleyes:
Closer to a gun then a bow so ill stick with gun.

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

Closer to a gun then a bow so ill stick with gun.

let's see, 12 posts, no profile filled out and totally against crossbows. me thinks ole SWAMPY is recruiting the MBH MEMBERS into the ms crossbow forum for some ANTAGONISTIC ARGUMENTS.:evilsmile
don't fall for these tactics people, they only want to gather public statements to for arsenal of slander on the crossbow HB5741 H-2 when it comes before the senate. due to the FACT that THEY have NO OTHER FACTS to stand on, PERIOD.:lol:

[swampbuck]

and you have those statistics from an earlier xbow season in mich., i must have mist it. if it passes we will see how it will hurt the deer behavior.

deer behavior and you also talk about morals and ethics. making it easy, Maybe you should take another look at that bait pile in your avatar.

[Whit1]

and you have those statistics from an earlier xbow season in mich., i must have mist it. if it passes we will see how it will hurt the deer behavior.


Ah yes, the ol' "but you don't have data from Michigan" argument. Yes sir, I've heard that one before........:lol:

This is a classic Catch-22 scheme that has its basis in the premise, because it cannot be refuted, that there is no data from Michigan and only data from Michigan is valid because Michigan hunters are different from hunters in every other state. The reason it cannot be refuted is due to the fact that, of course, Michigan has never allowed crossbows to be used during our archery season. The only source of information is from states that do allow for crossbow inclusion (which is annotated by the way, despite the claims by some). However, according to the Catch-22 scenario, this data is not from MICHIGAN and therefore it does not apply and (this is the classic part of any Catch-22 scheme so read it carefully) AND the groups/individuals who scoff at statistics/data from other states have done their best over the years and continue to do so, to see to it that any such data from Michigan will never be possible due to the fact that they will use any tactic necessary to prevent crossbow inclusion from where the data could be collected.

For those who are not familiar with the phrase "Catch-22" I suggest that you read the book Catch-22 or see the movie. Crossbow users will, of course, find Cliffs Notes (that's what got me through Macbeth and Julius Caesar in college) and use that because they are lazy and look for the easy way..........:lol:.....humor, all in good humor.

Okay, I'll make it easy for everyone. Here's a dictionary (online) definition of he phrase Catch-22:

Catch-22's, Catch-22s. 1. a frustrating situation in which one is trapped by contradictory regulations or conditions.

2. any illogical or paradoxical problem or situation; dilemma.

3. a condition, regulation, etc., preventing the resolution of a problem or situation; catch.

[Swamp Ghost]

let's see, 12 posts, no profile filled out and totally against crossbows. me thinks ole SWAMPY is recruiting the MBH MEMBERS into the ms crossbow forum for some ANTAGONISTIC ARGUMENTS.:evilsmile
don't fall for these tactics people, they only want to gather public statements to for arsenal of slander on the crossbow HB5741 H-2 when it comes before the senate. due to the FACT that THEY have NO OTHER FACTS to stand on, PERIOD.:lol:

If it were true, which it isn't, at least they would be from MI. Nothing like recruiting out of staters to tell Michiganders what's good for them.

And as we all know, the crossbow is going to save the sport of hunting, print money for the state and gut deer for it's users just ask one. Is there anything the crossbow can't do??????????????

The crossbow itself is a catch-22.

[wildcoy73]

we also want you to hold it with your hands and not lean or stabalize it on something like a gun look through your sights not scope like a gun and be a little quieter on your release.:coolgleam
So I see my compound is not allowed in your woods for I have a red dot scope on it. and I have a rest for it too. sure make it nice at full draw the shooting stick straps around my arm like an arm gaurd and keep that bow nice and stabil. all i have to do is look threw my scope and pull the trigger. And this is with a compound.

[Percha Man]

Crossbows = good thing....

Am really proficient with one yet can't use it unless I take my money to another state :mad::mad:

Would love to see this bill pass so I can do a recurve / compound / crossbow / rifle / pistol / muzzleloader combo ifn I can get all the right permits . Would be a Michigan granddaddy slam for me. Lets see that would be 2 bucks and 6 does ( and at the car accident rate I am more liable to hit 8 deer in a year before I ever take that many in a season but a man can dream can't he ? ) if done right and at a eating rate of almost 1.5 deer a month that would be close to six months of meat for me and my family :corkysm55:corkysm55

I personally enjoy hunting and fishing in Michigan and I welcome any opporotunity to hone my skills and enjoy a new style of hunting.

I disagree with all the anti's on this site and anywhere else in the world. Lets keep the support up for this bill and ensure our right to bear arms and hunt are not taken for granted. ( I do not recall any thing stipulating which arms to bear and i also recall that huntings beginings started with bows and then crossbows (( not going to get into the stick and stones of it )) so if all these supposed traditional bowhunters are offended does this mean that they would think they would try to ban our modern firearm hunting before they would crossbows? Then support the crossbow hunting on a more personal level? )


Any way good hunting to all and may you put meat on your table by the means that YOU choose not the way they tell YOU to..

Dead animals and side dishes to all.

[TOW]

Ah yes, the ol' "but you don't have data from Michigan" argument. Yes sir, I've heard that one before........:lol:

This is a classic Catch-22 scheme that has its basis in the premise, because it cannot be refuted, that there is no data from Michigan and only data from Michigan is valid because Michigan hunters are different from hunters in every other state. The reason it cannot be refuted is due to the fact that, of course, Michigan has never allowed crossbows to be used during our archery season. The only source of information is from states that do allow for crossbow inclusion (which is annotated by the way, despite the claims by some). However, according to the Catch-22 scenario, this data is not from MICHIGAN and therefore it does not apply and (this is the classic part of any Catch-22 scheme so read it carefully) AND the groups/individuals who scoff at statistics/data from other states have done their best over the years and continue to do so, to see to it that any such data from Michigan will never be possible due to the fact that they will use any tactic necessary to prevent crossbow inclusion from where the data could be collected.

For those who are not familiar with the phrase "Catch-22" I suggest that you read the book Catch-22 or see the movie. Crossbow users will, of course, find Cliffs Notes (that's what got me through Macbeth and Julius Caesar in college) and use that because they are lazy and look for the easy way..........:lol:.....humor, all in good humor.

Okay, I'll make it easy for everyone. Here's a dictionary (online) definition of he phrase Catch-22:

Catch-22's, Catch-22s. 1. a frustrating situation in which one is trapped by contradictory regulations or conditions.

2. any illogical or paradoxical problem or situation; dilemma.

3. a condition, regulation, etc., preventing the resolution of a problem or situation; catch.


How about a compromise out of that Catch 22?

Legalize crossbows for archery season for a 5 year trial.

Gather "Michigan data" and then make the decision to keep them or not?

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

How about a compromise out of that Catch 22?

Legalize crossbows for archery season for a 5 year trial.

Gather "Michigan data" and then make the decision to keep them or not?

NO NEED FOR A COMPROMISE! you can bet your sweet bippy the D.N.R. will be doing a study for all the data on crossbows in michigan once legal. they too, want to make sure that there's no detramental effects of its use on the deer herd. if the D.N.R. finds crossbows have a NEGATIVE EFFECT you can take it to the bank they'll stop the use of crossbows.
by the way the MBH had its chance at a COMPROMISE a long, long time ago and said repeatedly NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO. GET THE PICTURE ? :D

[Riva]

How about a compromise out of that Catch 22?

Legalize crossbows for archery season for a 5 year trial.

Gather "Michigan data" and then make the decision to keep them or not?

My understand that something to that effect was suggested to the DNR prior to this bill coming to a vote. The DNR passed on the idea.

I am sure there was a host of reasons that they declined to endorse such a concept including the fact that quantifiable data already exists in neighboring states (e.g. "why spend the money").

Also, as mentioned several times elsewhere, no state that has gone to full inclusion has rescinded its original decision. Again, they (DNR) looks to other states and think, why would we engage in research when its 100% certain that the only outcome could be to expand to an even greater level of opportunity (e.g. "longer archery season").

Finally, just like my signature states, the DNR knows that once full inclusion becomes fact, it will not only be accepted but chreished by the vast majority. It is the same type event that occurred with the introduction of the compound a few decades back. The initial reaction by some was that compound bows would be the total destruction of the sport. As we know, nothing of the sort occurred. So too now with crossbows.

[hoyt001]

Another sad day for the archer! The crossbow looks to me to be a "gun" hunters way to slide into bow season.
:rant:

[marty]

Another sad day for the archer! The crossbow looks to me to be a "gun" hunters way to slide into bow season.
:rant:

those darn old nasty gun hunters:lol: how dare they do such a thing:lol:

[butter21]

let's see, 12 posts, no profile filled out and totally against crossbows. me thinks ole SWAMPY is recruiting the MBH MEMBERS into the ms crossbow forum for some ANTAGONISTIC ARGUMENTS.:evilsmile
don't fall for these tactics people, they only want to gather public statements to for arsenal of slander on the crossbow HB5741 H-2 when it comes before the senate. due to the FACT that THEY have NO OTHER FACTS to stand on, PERIOD.:lol:
And i think you have know clue what you are talking about. Ive never even talked to that guy. What would you like to know about me?

[butter21]

those darn old nasty gun hunters:lol: how dare they do such a thing:lol:
I know, they are to lazy to learn how to shot a compound bow. So it will be a perfect fit for them.

[Liv4Huntin']

And as we all know, the crossbow is going to save the sport of hunting, print money for the state and gut deer for it's users just ask one. Is there anything the crossbow can't do??????????????

YUP !!! I have yet to see a crossbow, ANY CROSSBOW, fix up a fine batch of RIBS !!;) (Obtain, yes, but not cook em up.)

~ m ~

[swampbuck]

Well now some of you anti-crossbows guys are so generous to offer a compromise:lol::lol: how about this one you quit whining and we will quit making fun of you :D

[7MM Magnum]

:yeahthat: :cheeky-sm :whistle:




:Welcome: TO THE CROSSBOWS FORUMS ! :evilsmile

[Buddwiser]

Another sad day for the archer! The crossbow looks to me to be a "gun" hunters way to slide into bow season.
:rant:

This may surprise those of you under the age of, say, 40, but there was a time when the only bow available was a stick bow. No sights, no let-off, no trigger releases. Those of us who were bow hunters then decried the compound bow in the same manner as those of you moaning about the cross bow are today. But we got over it. Heres a tip......
get over your elitest attitude. If the bill passes, cross bows are here to stay.
If the fact that cross bows may become lawfull bother you so much, may I suggest you travel to a non-cross bow state and do your hunting where you won't feel threatened. But then again, those states are becoming rather few and far between.

[ART]

Another sad day for the archer! The crossbow looks to me to be a "gun" hunters way to slide into bow season.
:rant:
I am guessing that due to your name, you shoot a fancy high tech bow with "training wheels"
I remember the day when bows with wheels came out, and the stick/recurve bowhunters said the newfangled bows would ruin the bowseason.
There was a lot of bitterness then- just like now.

[7MM Magnum]

This may surprise those of you under the age of, say, 40, but there was a time when the only bow available was a stick bow. No sights, no let-off, no trigger releases. Those of us who were bow hunters then decried the compound bow in the same manner as those of you moaning about the cross bow are today. But we got over it. Heres a tip......
get over your elitest attitude. If the bill passes, cross bows are here to stay.
If the fact that cross bows may become lawfull bother you so much, may I suggest you travel to a non-cross bow state and do your hunting where you won't feel threatened. But then again, those states are becoming rather few and far between.


Ahhhh yes,... Long bow, 3 finger glove or pad (I preferred the glove) and cedar shafts with REAL feathers, instinctive shooting. All about putting the tip of your arrow at a certain height for the relative distance. Once you learned your bow you could be QUITE effective at a large variance of distances.

How well I remember those days. ;)

[marty]

I know, they are to lazy to learn how to shot a compound bow. So it will be a perfect fit for them.

gee it nice to know how you think of your fellow hunters. BTW most gun hunters are already archery hunters:yikes:

divide us a bit more why don't you:mad:

[butter21]

gee it nice to know how you think of your fellow hunters. BTW most gun hunters are already archery hunters:yikes:

divide us a bit more why don't you:mad:

Think you better look into that one. About half as many bow hunters as gun hunters. :yikes:

[7MM Magnum]

Hey butterball,.. I think you need to tone it down a bit :mad: , regardless of our choice of weapons we're all hunters here in one respect or another. :rolleyes:

[butter21]

Hey butterball,.. I think you need to tone it down a bit :mad: , regardless of our choice of weapons we're all hunters here in one respect or another. :rolleyes:
Hey seven millimeter remington magnum i was having a discussion about crossbows and he has said more then once that im not even from michigan and that i was recruited by someone else on here to post about crossbows. He is the one being disrespectful to me.

[Munsterlndr]

Hey seven millimeter remington magnum i was having a discussion about crossbows and he has said more then once that im not even from michigan and that i was recruited by someone else on here to post about crossbows. He is the one being disrespectful to me.

If you filled out your profile and told us a little about yourself, maybe you might have a little more credibility in that respect. ;)

[duckhunter382]

I know, they are to lazy to learn how to shot a compound bow. So it will be a perfect fit for them.
since when was it decided that only bowhunters were hunters, this hatred toward gun hunters is really ticking me off. this country was founded by gun owners and gun hunters are passing along a tradition that goes farther than just hunting. what would our country do if only bow hunting were allowed and none of our hunters were profficient with guns anymore? what if some other country invaded us and actually got passed our military? we need kids and young men and old men alike to remain accurate and deadly with firearms. if you think my statements are radical and crazy, why would our forefathers include the second amendment to our constitution. I am a duckhunter, deer hunter(both archery and firearm), squirrel hunter, upland hunter, salmon fisherman, trapper, and anything else that gets me closer to the natural world and out of the rat race that runs my life day to day. when a crossbow has a primer and powder and a casing then maybe I would buy into your reasoning that it is a gun. to me we are only a couple years away from compounds that can be cocked anyway. lets face it if you are only enjoying the bow season you are no better than those hunters that only hunt the rifle season and also if you only hunt deer you are missing out. I think that the people in this state are so quick to judge another way of hunting or fishing just because it may sound easier. I myself would love to dive lake michigan and spearfish salmon or some other edible fish. but you know that would lead to sportfishing groups throwing a fit, when if you really think about it, it wouldnt be any different as long as you keep within your legal possesion limits. but you cant do it because someone thinks it is an unfair advantage. and just because it works in other states doesnt mean it works here, and dove are not edible in michigan either right?

[marty]

Think you better look into that one. About half as many bow hunters as gun hunters. :yikes:

gee cause you said that most gun hunters I know bow hunt as well if crossbow become legal they will bow hunt and there's nothing wrong with that unless of course your anti hunting so what does it matter as long as we get the choice to hunt

we're all hunters here:D

[butter21]

gee cause you said that most gun hunters I know bow hunt as well if crossbow become legal they will bow hunt and there's nothing wrong with that unless of course your anti hunting so what does it matter as long as we get the choice to hunt

we're all hunters here:D
Yup im anti-hunting b/c i dont want crossbows during bow season. I have nothing against guns i gun hunt, i dont know where you getting all this stuff that i hate guns....

It would be great to have more gun hunters start bow hunting.

[duckhunter382]

ok so you dont hate gun hunters but they are all lazy though right?

[IceDaddy]

94-14-2 This is Awesome news, What are the steps from here?
Is there anything, to pass along to fellow hunters (co-workers) that don't
have internet. Sould We be writing to congress men. Or is it all in lock down so to speak?:help:

[butter21]

ok so you dont hate gun hunters but they are all lazy though right?
Can you quote me where i said all gun hunters are lazy.

[duckhunter382]

I know, they are to lazy to learn how to shot a compound bow. So it will be a perfect fit for them.
how is this

[marty]

Yup im anti-hunting b/c i dont want crossbows during bow season. I have nothing against guns i gun hunt, i dont know where you getting all this stuff that i hate guns....

It would be great to have more gun hunters start bow hunting.

so it's ok as long as you choose the weapon then?? i think most hunters would rather choose their own and if someone wants a crossbow why not??

Just because you don't want them:lol: yea right:lol:

[butter21]

so it's ok as long as you choose the weapon then?? i think most hunters would rather choose their own and if someone wants a crossbow why not??

Just because you don't want them:lol: yea right:lol:
They can choose to use a crossbow right now....

[butter21]

how is this
Sorry i didnt read anything about all gun hunters being lazy in that quote. :(

[duckhunter382]

those darn old nasty gun hunters:lol: how dare they do such a thing:lol:
hey butter you quoted this response in your quote so I guess you were refering to gun hunters being to lazy to learn a compound or did I get it wrong

[butter21]

hey butter you quoted this response in your quote so I guess you were refering to gun hunters being to lazy to learn a compound or did I get it wrong
Yes i was referring to some but not all as i did not say all. Look at the numbers look how many more people gun hunt than bow hunt. To be fair some might only go out opening day b/c of tradition, and others might only have time to go a couple of times during gun. But there is still a large percent of gun hunters that just gun b/c its a little easier. I dont shot my gun 2 months before gun season. I pick a Saturday before opening day and shoot it 5 times to make sure its still sighted in. With a bow you have have to shoot alot more. Not that i dont want more of the orange army to start bow hunting but its just an alternative to alot of gun hunters that are to lazy to bow hunt.

[marty]

They can choose to use a crossbow right now....


No they can't right now but maybe next year. The current permit system has many flaws and a lot of hunters drop through.

They only time hunters can use a crossbow is rifle season and do you really think most people would take a crossbow over a rifle anyway??

making crossbows legal is the right thing to do. there is no reason why except you don't want them and you don't count :D

all you do is say hunters are lazy and should hunt with a compounds:dizzy: horse hockey. If hunters want to use crossbows they should be able to.

hopefully next year they'll be legal..:D

[duckhunter382]

Yes i was referring to some but not all as i did not say all. Look at the numbers look how many more people gun hunt than bow hunt. To be fair some might only go out opening day b/c of tradition, and others might only have time to go a couple of times during gun. But there is still a large percent of gun hunters that just gun b/c its a little easier. I dont shot my gun 2 months before gun season. I pick a Saturday before opening day and shoot it 5 times to make sure its still sighted in. With a bow you have have to shoot alot more. Not that i dont want more of the orange army to start bow hunting but its just an alternative to alot of gun hunters that are to lazy to bow hunt.I have seen the results of all the perfect bow hunters when I was 16 and worked at a deer processor. we would get deer that had old broadheads in them that were all gangreen and would damage the saw blades. you might want to look into the amount of lost bow deer. dont talk about gun hunters being lazy when some of your own are also. I can go on forever but my life is too short to keep it up so I will sign off and realize that you are just misinformed and go back to the waterfowl and cold water species forums and let you find out that you are outnumbered on your own.

[butter21]

No they can't right now but maybe next year. The current permit system has many flaws and a lot of hunters drop through.

They only time hunters can use a crossbow is rifle season and do you really think most people would take a crossbow over a rifle anyway??

making crossbows legal is the right thing to do. there is no reason why except you don't want them and you don't count :D

all you do is say hunters are lazy and should hunt with a compounds:dizzy: horse hockey. If hunters want to use crossbows they should be able to.

hopefully next year they'll be legal..:D

No i dont think they will, because its easier for them to harvest an animal with a gun. I would call that being lazy. Not calling the gun hunters that dont want to take a deer with a crossbow lazy. But the ones that want to take a deer with their crossbow, but just want to use the easiest weapon during that season to do so lazy.

They CAN for the 1000000th time DURING gun season. If they want to use a crossbow so bad use it during gun season.

[butter21]

I have seen the results of all the perfect bow hunters when I was 16 and worked at a deer processor. we would get deer that had old broadheads in them that were all gangreen and would damage the saw blades. you might want to look into the amount of lost bow deer. dont talk about gun hunters being lazy when some of your own are also. I can go on forever but my life is too short to keep it up so I will sign off and realize that you are just misinformed and go back to the waterfowl and cold water species forums and let you find out that you are outnumbered on your own.
What?

[7MM Magnum]

Butter,... it's pretty much a mute subject at this point in time :rolleyes:, with the passing of this bill it will become a law. Whatever seasons the appropriate governmental offices choose for the inclusion of the crossbow that will be what it is,.... regardless of how you or anybody else feels about it.

Buck it up there kiddo',.. life's too short to get your panties all in a bunch about it. Just deal with it and life will go on regardless of your feelings about it.

I for one, have stated ever since the beginning that they should allow it for all of the seasons that are open. It's just another TOOL that a person can choose to hunt with. No matter WHAT choice you make as an individual to hunt with as long as it's legal it's good to go. You only receive so many kill tags for whichever season you choose to participate in. Once you fill em' your all done hunting. ;) So WHY get all upset ???

Personally I go archery, rifle, and blackpowder. Being an owner of a farm allows me to get enough doe tags to hopefully fill my freezer along with helping out a friend, and whatever I'd get above and beyond that goes to Hunters Helping the Hungry. For the most part all of my tags that I fill are DOE tags. I think the last buck tag I filled was a 4 point during archery back in 2004.

Get past your anger and move on,... ;)

[TOW]

No i dont think they will, because its easier for them to harvest an animal with a gun. I would call that being lazy. Not calling the gun hunters that dont want to take a deer with a crossbow lazy. But the ones that want to take a deer with their crossbow, but just want to use the easiest weapon during that season to do so lazy.



What percentage of bowhunters hang up the bow and pick up a firearm for the firearm opener? Are you a bowhunter ONLY? Do you continue to hunt with your bow during the firearm season? Do you EVER gun hunt for anything?

While we are at it... do you hunt with a compound bow?

[butter21]

What percentage of bowhunters hang up the bow and pick up a firearm for the firearm opener? Are you a bowhunter ONLY? Do you continue to hunt with your bow during the firearm season? Do you EVER gun hunt for anything?

While we are at it... do you hunt with a compound bow?
Yes i hang my bow up for gun opener. Dont usually use bow during gun season. Yes i use a compound.

[TOW]

Yes i hang my bow up for gun opener. Dont usually use bow during gun season. Yes i use a compound.

Then how do you justify calling a crossbower "lazy" when you are doing the same thing?

Originally Posted by butter21 http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2167326#post2167326)
No i dont think they will, because its easier for them to harvest an animal with a gun. I would call that being lazy. Not calling the gun hunters that dont want to take a deer with a crossbow lazy. But the ones that want to take a deer with their crossbow, but just want to use the easiest weapon during that season to do so lazy.


Please 'splain that to us Lucy...

[Leader]

Yes i hang my bow up for gun opener. Dont usually use bow during gun season. Yes i use a compound.

You're makeing all this fuss and you aren't even a BOW hunter?
You and people like you are what ruined REAL bowhunting. You're just as bad as the rest.

[awshucks]

Yes i hang my bow up for gun opener. Dont usually use bow during gun season. Yes i use a compound.

Gee, did you know your compound is an invention made by a guy [Hollis Allen] who had bum shoulders and wanted an "easier bow" to shoot? lol. Think it was around 1969 when the baby went out w/ the bath water. Won't even bring up amts of let off.

[Whit1]

94-14-2 This is Awesome news, What are the steps from here?
Is there anything, to pass along to fellow hunters (co-workers) that don't
have internet. Sould We be writing to congress men. Or is it all in lock down so to speak?:help:

The bill now goes to the state senate where it will be assigned to a committee where it will go through a process of having a hearing, debate and then voted on whether to pass it to the full senate for consideration and hopefully an eventual vote by the full senate.

This being an election year which means a very tight senate (legislative) calendar due to summer recess, election recess and a short lameduck session after the Nov. elections the bill will probably be acted on sometime next year.

[marty]

No i dont think they will, because its easier for them to harvest an animal with a gun. I would call that being lazy. Not calling the gun hunters that dont want to take a deer with a crossbow lazy. But the ones that want to take a deer with their crossbow, but just want to use the easiest weapon during that season to do so lazy.

They CAN for the 1000000th time DURING gun season. If they want to use a crossbow so bad use it during gun season.

do you think crossbow use is so great hunters turn down rifles for crossbows?? No they don't cause it a crappy season. being lazy has got nothing to do with the weapon of choice ;)

[butter21]

Then how do you justify calling a crossbower "lazy" when you are doing the same thing?



Please 'splain that to us Lucy...
Thous why ive said i would support a crossbow season did you read when i said that numerous times Nancy...
You're makeing all this fuss and you aren't even a BOW hunter?
You and people like you are what ruined REAL bowhunting. You're just as bad as the rest.
http://hooked-on-phonics.com/ this might help

Gee, did you know your compound is an invention made by a guy [Hollis Allen] who had bum shoulders and wanted an "easier bow" to shoot? lol. Think it was around 1969 when the baby went out w/ the bath water. Won't even bring up amts of let off.
.......nope didnt know that
do you think crossbow use is so great hunters turn down rifles for crossbows?? No they don't cause it a crappy season. being lazy has got nothing to do with the weapon of choice ;)
Like ive said then why not make its own season like black power does.

[e. fairbanks]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/South-Africans-switch-from-guns-to-crossbows/2005
Gun controls under South Africa's Firearms Control Act are pushing citizens to look for new means of defending themselves

[TOW]

Thous why ive said i would support a crossbow season did you read when i said that numerous times Nancy...


That doesn't cut it.

You still called crossbwers "lazy" when you do the same thing.

I've decided that you aren't quite wrth the typing strokes you've been givin.

[e. fairbanks]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/South/Africans-switch-from-guns-to-crossbows/2005

[butter21]

That doesn't cut it.

You still called crossbwers "lazy" when you do the same thing.

I've decided that you aren't quite wrth the typing strokes you've been givin.
I called gun hunters that are going to start using a crossbow but wouldn't use a normal bow lazy.... All you do is avoid the question why do you want crossbows during bow season right now, instead of pushing for its own season like black powder.

[Riva]

I called gun hunters that are going to start using a crossbow but wouldn't use a normal bow lazy.... All you do is avoid the question why do you want crossbows during bow season right now, instead of pushing for its own season like black powder.

That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with, sport. Would you include a person that uses a "normal" bow picking up a crossbow lazy too? Or, is that dubious distinction left solely for gun hunters? Remember, when full inclusion for crossbows happens, there will be crossbow users that will come from the firearms community, the current "regular" bow community, youth, persons of age and the previously excluded disabled. There will be some who participate that never hunted before. Your implication is that just the gun hunters are lazy. To extend you seriously flawed logic, you must then call all crossbow hunters "lazy", not merely one subset that you have identified. It's OK, go ahead; we've been called worse.:dizzy:

Well, now that we've determined that everybody that hunts with a crossbow to be lazy, and not just firearms hunters, I have one question for you...how does the fact that another person using a crossbow affect your personal hunting experience? You say they're all lazy. C'mon, fess up...tell me how all this affect YOU!

What sayeth ye?

[marty]

Like ive said then why not make its own season like black power does.


when do you propose a season?/ maybe feb 15?? how about archery where they belong since they kill they same as your bow:D

BTW black powder is not a stand alone season anymore:yikes: I got to share it with those darn bowhunters:mad:

[Riva]

when do you propose a season?/ maybe feb 15?? how about archery where they belong since they kill they same as your bow:D

BTW black powder is not a stand alone season anymore:yikes: I got to share it with those darn bowhunters:mad:

Thinking out loud...what if there was indeed a stand alone crossbow season?

What do you think the reaction would be if it occurred say, September 1-30th? After, all the regular archery season takes place October 1-November 14. And then it resumes from December 1-January 1. Golly, there just no darn place to put it other than September 1 -30th.

I could here the howls now.." but, but, but but, those crossbow guys will now get first dibs on all the biggest deer". And the xbow people will say; "Yeah, so? And, your point is?" :rolleyes:

Frankly, being a reasonable person, I think the most fair accommodation (after all, this is all about "accommodation, isn't it?) is to establish the stand alone crossbow from October 1-November 14. In that manner, the "regular" bow people can have November 15 all the way through January 1. Heck, they can even extend it until February 1 if the science call for it.

I think that is a more than fair accommodation because, after all, "regular" archery is supposed to be "difficult", right guys? (I think there's a slogan they use, something like: "it builds strong bodies 12 ways").

- By hunting alongside firearms hunters, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting alongside muzzle load hunters, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting while it is below freezing temperatures, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting when most of the "good deer" have been taken , that makes it more difficult

- By hunting when the deer's behavior patters have been altered by all of the above, that makes it more difficult.

See, problem solved! November 15 and beyond for all you regular archery hunters.:D

[IceDaddy]

And after all, Hunting with a Compound "IS" more difficult. (Good Post Riva):D

[swampbuck]

Thinking out loud...what if there was indeed a stand alone crossbow season?

What do you think the reaction would be if it occurred say, September 1-30th? After, all the regular archery season takes place October 1-November 14. And then it resumes from December 1-January 1. Golly, there just no darn place to put it other than September 1 -30th.

I could here the howls now.." but, but, but but, those crossbow guys will now get first dibs on all the biggest deer". And the xbow people will say; "Yeah, so? And, your point is?" :rolleyes:

Frankly, being a reasonable person, I think the most fair accommodation (after all, this is all about "accommodation, isn't it?) is to establish the stand alone crossbow from October 1-November 14. In that manner, the "regular" bow people can have November 15 all the way through January 1. Heck, they can even extend it until February 1 if the science call for it.

I think that is a more than fair accommodation because, after all, "regular" archery is supposed to be "difficult", right guys? (I think there's a slogan they use, something like: "it builds strong bodies 12 ways").

- By hunting alongside firearms hunters, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting alongside muzzle load hunters, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting while it is below freezing temperatures, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting when most of the "good deer" have been taken , that makes it more difficult

- By hunting when the deer's behavior patters have been altered by all of the above, that makes it more difficult.

See, problem solved! November 15 and beyond for all you regular archery hunters.:D


that sounds good. As long as they are not allowed to use those pesky compounds during our season.;)

[BigBirdVA]

Thinking out loud...what if there was indeed a stand alone crossbow season?

What do you think the reaction would be if it occurred say, September 1-30th? After, all the regular archery season takes place October 1-November 14. And then it resumes from December 1-January 1. Golly, there just no darn place to put it other than September 1 -30th.

I could here the howls now.." but, but, but but, those crossbow guys will now get first dibs on all the biggest deer". And the xbow people will say; "Yeah, so? And, your point is?" :rolleyes:

Frankly, being a reasonable person, I think the most fair accommodation (after all, this is all about "accommodation, isn't it?) is to establish the stand alone crossbow from October 1-November 14. In that manner, the "regular" bow people can have November 15 all the way through January 1. Heck, they can even extend it until February 1 if the science call for it.

I think that is a more than fair accommodation because, after all, "regular" archery is supposed to be "difficult", right guys? (I think there's a slogan they use, something like: "it builds strong bodies 12 ways").

- By hunting alongside firearms hunters, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting alongside muzzle load hunters, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting while it is below freezing temperatures, that makes it more difficult.

- By hunting when most of the "good deer" have been taken , that makes it more difficult

- By hunting when the deer's behavior patters have been altered by all of the above, that makes it more difficult.

See, problem solved! November 15 and beyond for all you regular archery hunters.:DYou forgot to add - no compounds and you have to walk all the way to where you hunt. This riding in a vehicle has made bow hunting way too easy.:evilsmile

Face it no matter how logical of a response you post they'll find something different to moan about.

[butter21]

That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with, sport. Would you include a person that uses a "normal" bow picking up a crossbow lazy too? Or, is that dubious distinction left solely for gun hunters? Remember, when full inclusion for crossbows happens, there will be crossbow users that will come from the firearms community, the current "regular" bow community, youth, persons of age and the previously excluded disabled. There will be some who participate that never hunted before. Your implication is that just the gun hunters are lazy. To extend you seriously flawed logic, you must then call all crossbow hunters "lazy", not merely one subset that you have identified. It's OK, go ahead; we've been called worse.:dizzy:

Well, now that we've determined that everybody that hunts with a crossbow to be lazy, and not just firearms hunters, I have one question for you...how does the fact that another person using a crossbow affect your personal hunting experience? You say they're all lazy. C'mon, fess up...tell me how all this affect YOU!

What sayeth ye?
Do you know how to read? I dont know how to make it any clearer gun hunters that do not bow hunt, that if the bill is passed would immediately go out with a crossbow. Those are the only ones im calling lazy.

This is how it will affect me. Just like it will affect all bowhunters.

Michigan currently has more than 400,000 firearm deer hunters who have never taken up the challenge of bow hunting and who would flock to the bow season if they could shoot arrows with guns in October

[butter21]

Thinking out loud...what if there was indeed a stand alone crossbow season?

What do you think the reaction would be if it occurred say, September 1-30th? After, all the regular archery season takes place October 1-November 14. And then it resumes from December 1-January 1. Golly, there just no darn place to put it other than September 1 -30th.



That would be sweet sign me up. I would be the first to purchase a crossbow and go out hunting with it. I have nothing against crossbows, I do however have something against crossbows during are current bow season. Ill help you fight for a crossbow season if you want to start pushing for one.

[Riva]

Do you know how to read? I dont know how to make it any clearer gun hunters that do not bow hunt, that if the bill is passed would immediately go out with a crossbow. Those are the only ones im calling lazy.

This is how it will affect me. Just like it will affect all bowhunters.

Michigan currently has more than 400,000 firearm deer hunters who have never taken up the challenge of bow hunting and who would flock to the bow season if they could shoot arrows with guns in October

You either call all of of us lazy or, you must drop this entire line of flawed thinking. C'mon..What's it going to be?:rolleyes:

The bottom line is this...You have absolutely no basis to call any group lazy or person lazy You have no idea how much practice and/or scouting and/or devotion a person puts into the effort to hunt with a crossbow. The same way, I have no way how much you put into the above. Well, you say: "I put in a lot, and, I get a lot of personal gratification out of it". Well, good for you! It still remains that you have no frick'n way to determine how much what you hold so dear the other guy puts in. Still, you call them "lazy". Gimme a frick'n break. Besides, how does a person being, as you refer to as being "lazy", affect your own personal experience? Answer that one for me before you continue with your slanderous drivel, OK!

Let's call a spade a spade..this has nothing to do with "lazy". Rather, it has everything to do with "opportunity". In other words, you want FEWER people in the woods getting first dibs on the deer.. "More" is bad to some of you. "Less" is good. It's as plain and simple as that except some of you guys just won't fess up to it.

In my heart of hearts, I sincerely believe that many archery hunters rejoice with glee when they read that more and more archery hunters have abandoned archery sports. I really do. And, the reason that they jump for glee is the fact that it boils down what I said earlier: "Less is better." :sad:

Nobody will admit to this, the same way you will not admit to how hunting with all these hypothetical "lazy" hunters affects you own personal experience.

[Riva]

That would be sweet sign me up. I would be the first to purchase a crossbow and go out hunting with it. I have nothing against crossbows, I do however have something against crossbows during are (our) current bow season. Ill help you fight for a crossbow season if you want to start pushing for one.

I have pointed out this grammatical error not so much to illustrate incorrect language use but rather, to illustrate your absolute perfect usage of the word that I believe you wanted to use in that sentence, specifically: "our". As in "our" bow season.

You see, I very much concur that it is indeed "our" bow season, as in the first-person plural possessive for "us and we", something belonging to everybody. It is not, from my perspective "your" bow season, as if I/we have no stake in its ownership.

And, if you would like to help work for a crossbow season, you don't have to. "We" already have one: October 1- November 14. It's just that not everybody has a free choice surrounding the weapon they would like to use. If that's what you mean, then I encourage you to write your senator to support HB 5741.:)

The "hour" is near: Vote for HB 5741;)

[butter21]

I have pointed out this grammatical error not so much to illustrate incorrect language use but rather, to illustrate your absolute perfect usage of the word that I believe you wanted to use in that sentence, specifically: "our". As in "our" bow season.

You see, I very much concur that it is indeed "our" bow season, as in the first-person plural possessive for "us and we", something belonging to everybody. It is not, from my perspective "your" bow season, as if I/we have no stake in its ownership.

And, if you would like to help work for a crossbow season, you don't have to. "We" already have one: October 1- November 14. It's just that not everybody has a free choice surrounding the weapon they would like to use. If that's what you mean, then I encourage you to write your senator to support HB 5741.:)

The "hour" is near: Vote for HB 5741;)
Thanks Mr. Webster! You keep giving me the run around on my questions seems to me you dont want to answer why you wont push for a separate season for crossbows.

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

Thanks Mr. Webster! You keep giving me the run around on my questions seems to me you dont want to answer why you wont push for a separate season for crossbows.

lets see if i can answer that one, its a TOUGHY. we have always hunted archery in the same time frame (for me over 45 years) starting on octber 1st. this would be since its inception ( BEFORE YOU WERE BORN) when all the MAJOR ARCHERY MANUFACTUERS petitioned the legislature for it and won the rights for ALL ARCHERS to have their own season. (pay particular attention to the word ALL). THIS SEASON WASN'T JUST RANDOMLY CHOSEN. the D.N.R. game biologists chose this time frame due to the FACT that it was the best time to hunt the whitetail without destroying the herd, and yet keeping it in check with the natural food supplies in the woods. now as for the seperate season issue it already is separate ITS CALLED ARCHERY SEASON, you know those things called ARROWS NOT BULLETS. i believe the definitions are quite precise in the websters new collegiate dictionary. while your in there looking around you might just stumble upon some other words like, archery, guns, pistols,bows,and crossbows.

[BigBirdVA]

Thanks Mr. Webster! You keep giving me the run around on my questions seems to me you dont want to answer why you wont push for a separate season for crossbows.Same reason there aren't separate seasons for stick bows and compound bows. Compounds have an advantage over stick bows. I don't see them crying different season. Why? Because an arrow propelled by a string is basically the same. All are so close to the same it doesn't make any difference. Unless you're just looking for any minor reason to try to exclude others. Then it's a great excuse.:lol:

Guess that's why we keep going in circles on the same points over and over. You just don't get it. It has to be greed as no one can be that stupid to not get it with all the data on success rates and numbers from states xbows are legal in. Hey lets jump back to drawing the bow now then we can go to "it's a gun because it has a stock" next. That's different we usually do the "it's a gun" first. :dizzy: We have to keep this interesting because the greed thing "it's my season and my deer" is beat to death.
http://thegrandnarrative.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[November Sunrise]

Same reason there aren't separate seasons for stick bows and compound bows. Compounds have an advantage over stick bows. I don't see them crying different season. Why? Because an arrow propelled by a string is basically the same. All are so close to the same it doesn't make any difference.

The guys who shoot stick bows have chosen a method that is exponentially more difficult than shooting a compound. The stick bow shooters who adopt a purist argument and object to using easier equipment, whether it be compound bows or crossbows, have major credibility on their side.

On the other hand, compound shooters who object to crossbows under the guise of them being easier to use, have zero credibility. Nada. None. Zilch. An individuals decision to use a compound proves that they're intent on using a much easier and more efficient system than is available. Compound shooters who object to crossbows under the guise of them being easier to use are hypocrites to the nth degree.

[TOW]

The guys who shoot stick bows have chosen a method that is exponentially more difficult than shooting a compound. The stick bow shooters who adopt a purist argument and object to using easier equipment, whether it be compound bows or crossbows, have major credibility on their side.

On the other hand, compound shooters who object to crossbows under the guise of them being easier to use, have zero credibility. Nada. None. Zilch. An individuals decision to use a compound proves that they're intent on using a much easier and more efficient system than is available. Compound shooters who object to crossbows under the guise of them being easier to use are hypocrites to the nth degree.

Well said.

The advent and technological advances of the compound bow has finally opened the door for a like piece of archery gear to be considered for archery hunting - the crossbow.

[7MM Magnum]

The guys who shoot stick bows have chosen a method that is exponentially more difficult than shooting a compound. The stick bow shooters who adopt a purist argument and object to using easier equipment, whether it be compound bows or crossbows, have major credibility on their side.

On the other hand, compound shooters who object to crossbows under the guise of them being easier to use, have zero credibility. Nada. None. Zilch. An individuals decision to use a compound proves that they're intent on using a much easier and more efficient system than is available. Compound shooters who object to crossbows under the guise of them being easier to use are hypocrites to the nth degree.

November,... I've got to disagree with your comment about sick bows being more difficult than compounds.

I've shot a stick bow from the time I was 8 years old until 1999 ( a total of 34 years) At that time I purchased and shot my first compound. I personally found it to be more difficult to become accustomed to than I did with the stick bow. Whole different trajectory on a compound, and no matter how hard I tried to continue to shoot it instinctively I just couldn't. For the first time in my life shooting archery I found myself peering through a peep sight, and looking at pins to acquire my target. I took forever to get used to it,.. and I'm STILL working on it !

For me shooting a stick and recurve bow came natural,.. shooting a compound took more work then I ever imagined considering how many years I had under my belt already shooting a bow and arrow. I don't personally plan or intend to shoot a CrossBow BUT,... IF I ever choose to do so that option should be left solely up to me.

It should be each individuals CHOICE to pick up and utilize whatever comfortable LEGAL means there is available to hunt with.

The greedy, selfish, group of individuals that can't understand or agree with this line of thought are just a bunch of purists who will never submit to a CrossBow inclusion just like they didn't want the compound to enter the choice of weapons so it now falls on the next introduction,.. the CrossBow.

The only thing they need to worry about is themselves (seeing they already know how to do that quite well) and let the rest of the hunting individuals make their OWN choices. :mad:

[butter21]

Same reason there aren't separate seasons for stick bows and compound bows. Compounds have an advantage over stick bows. I don't see them crying different season. Why? Because an arrow propelled by a string is basically the same. All are so close to the same it doesn't make any difference. Unless you're just looking for any minor reason to try to exclude others. Then it's a great excuse.:lol:

Guess that's why we keep going in circles on the same points over and over. You just don't get it. It has to be greed as no one can be that stupid to not get it with all the data on success rates and numbers from states xbows are legal in. Hey lets jump back to drawing the bow now then we can go to "it's a gun because it has a stock" next. That's different we usually do the "it's a gun" first. :dizzy: We have to keep this interesting because the greed thing "it's my season and my deer" is beat to death.
http://thegrandnarrative.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

The way of shooting a compound and traditional bows is the same. The way of shooting a compound and a crossbow are WAY different. Why cant we use all guns in Muzzeleloader season?

[TJD]

The guys who shoot vertical bows have chosen a method that is exponentially more difficult than shooting a crossbow. The vertical bow shooters who adopt a purist argument and object to using easier equipment, whether it be firearms or crossbows, have major credibility on their side.


Personal opinions can go either way.

[TOW]

The way of shooting a compound and traditional bows is the same.

Wrong... most traditional archers pull back and when it feels good they let it go.

Compound shooters pull back, anchor, maintain back tension, look through their peep, check their bubble level, line up their fiber optic sight on the target, start squeezing their $150 release until it goes off.


The way of shooting a compound and a crossbow are WAY different.

Not really. We pull back the bow and cock it. We need to hold the bow up and get a good cheek weld on the stock (anchor). On non-scoped crossbows we "look through the peep, check our bubble level, line up their fiber optic sight on the target, start squeezing the trigger until it goes off."

Ther are a LOT more sismilarities of shooting a compound and crossbow that there are to shooting a recurve.

Why cant we use all guns in Muzzeleloader season?

Uh, just a guess , but maybe cause they are not loaded from the muzzle? :lol:

[butter21]

Wrong... most traditional archers pull back and when it feels good they let it go.

Compound shooters pull back, anchor, maintain back tension, look through their peep, check their bubble level, line up their fiber optic sight on the target, start squeezing their $150 release until it goes off.




Not really. We pull back the bow and cock it. We need to hold the bow up and get a good cheek weld on the stock (anchor). On non-scoped crossbows we "look through the peep, check our bubble level, line up their fiber optic sight on the target, start squeezing the trigger until it goes off."

Ther are a LOT more sismilarities of shooting a compound and crossbow that there are to shooting a recurve.



Uh, just a guess , but maybe cause they are not loaded from the muzzle? :lol:

The fundamentals of shooting a compound and traditional bows are the same.

The fundamentals of shooting a compound and crossbow aren't.

Thanks for pointing out that muzzeleloaders and rifles are different even though they are both guns.

[November Sunrise]

fixed:)

You do not have my permission to use the quote function to alter any words within my posts.

I enjoy intelligent discussions on this forum, but I do not have an interest in wasting my time responding to your 5th grade level antics.

[TOW]

You do not have my permission to use the quote function to alter any words within my posts.

I enjoy intelligent discussions on this forum, but I do not have an interest in wasting my time responding to your 5th grade level antics.


Not exactly playing fair is it?

[TOW]

The fundamentals of shooting a compound and traditional bows are the same.

The fundamentals of shooting a compound and crossbow aren't.

One more time....

Wrong... most traditional archers pull back and when it feels good they let it go.

Compound shooters pull back, anchor, maintain back tension, look through their peep, check their bubble level, line up their fiber optic sight on the target, start squeezing their $150 release until it goes off.

We pull back the bow and cock it. We need to hold the bow up and get a good cheek weld on the stock (anchor). On non-scoped crossbows we "look through the peep, check our bubble level, line up their fiber optic sight on the target, start squeezing the trigger until it goes off."

Ther are a LOT more sismilarities of shooting a compound and crossbow that there are to shooting a recurve.

Thanks for pointing out that muzzeleloaders and rifles are different even though they are both guns.

You're welcome. The being "different" can be said for longbows, recurves, compounds (no matter what the let off is) and crossbows. But , they are all archery equipment and as such can be considered for archery season.

That is what we are doing now...

[butter21]

One more time....

Wrong... most traditional archers pull back and when it feels good they let it go.

Compound shooters pull back, anchor, maintain back tension, look through their peep, check their bubble level, line up their fiber optic sight on the target, start squeezing their $150 release until it goes off.

We pull back the bow and cock it. We need to hold the bow up and get a good cheek weld on the stock (anchor). On non-scoped crossbows we "look through the peep, check our bubble level, line up their fiber optic sight on the target, start squeezing the trigger until it goes off."

Ther are a LOT more sismilarities of shooting a compound and crossbow that there are to shooting a recurve.



You're welcome. The being "different" can be said for longbows, recurves, compounds (no matter what the let off is) and crossbows. But , they are all archery equipment and as such can be considered for archery season.

That is what we are doing now...
You dont understand the word fundamentals. I think your getting that mixed up with the way they shoot.

Yet muzzeleloaders have a separate season. Must be they aren't the same as a rifle. Just like crossbows should have separate season.

[TOW]

You dont understand the word fundamentals. I think your getting that mixed up with the way they shoot.

No, not the WAY they shoot, but HOW they are SHOT.

Yet muzzeleloaders have a separate season. Must be they aren't the same as a rifle. Just like crossbows should have separate season.

But, one can hunt with a muzzleloader during the firearm season, right? Maybe even a bow or crossbow even though they are not "firearms". The reason that one cant hunt with a rifle during the "muzzleloader" season is because it is MUZZLELOADER ONLY season.

If Michigan had a desinated compound or stick bow ONLY season then you would have a point. They don't - it is ARCHERY SEASON.

[butter21]

No, not the WAY they shoot, but HOW they are SHOT.



But, one can hunt with a muzzleloader during the firearm season, right? Maybe even a bow or crossbow even though they are not "firearms". The reason that one cant hunt with a rifle during the "muzzleloader" season is because it is MUZZLELOADER ONLY season.

If Michigan had a desinated compound or stick bow ONLY season then you would have a point. They don't - it is ARCHERY SEASON.

The way they are shot is different between crossbows and compounds. The way that they propel the arrow/bolt is the same however.

The way compounds and traditional bows are shot is the same.

Good point we should have a crossbow season where you can use a compound during it. :D

[7MM Magnum]

The way they are shot is different between crossbows and compounds. The way that they propel the arrow/bolt is the same however.

The way compounds and traditional bows are shot is the same.

Good point we should have a crossbow season where you can use a compound during it. :D


No REASON for one due to already having Archery / BOW Season,... a CrossBOW falls right into that category by it's definition.

You can TRY squirreling around all you'd like, but it's already BEEN classified as a type of ARCHERY equipment and all your whining and crying about it won't change a thing. :gaga:

[butter21]

No REASON for one due to already having Archery / BOW Season,... a CrossBOW falls right into that category by it's definition.

You can TRY squirreling around all you'd like, but it's already BEEN classified as a type of ARCHERY equipment and all your whining and crying about it won't change a thing. :gaga:


And a muzzeleloader is classified as a gun.

[7MM Magnum]

A gun that LOADS from THE MUZZEL with BOTH POWDER AND PROJECTILE,... againgames. :rolleyes:
16suspect

[TOW]

A gun that LOADS from THE MUZZEL with BOTH POWDER AND PROJECTILE,... again,.. more games. :rolleyes:
:16suspect

He is just playing some childish semantic games with you....

[7MM Magnum]

He is just playing semantic games with you....

I'm done with him,... :evilsmile


Bye BUTTERBALL !!! :lol:

[TOW]

Yeah,... I know :mad: there ought to be a age enrollment criteria so we can get rid of all of these moronic pranksters. ;):D

I'm done with him,... :evilsmile


Bye BUTTERBALL !!! :lol:


More like BUTTERCUP...

Wise move...I'm with you..

Some people just like to post to see their handle pop up on the screen..

[butter21]

A gun that LOADS from THE MUZZEL with BOTH POWDER AND PROJECTILE,... again,.. more childish games. :rolleyes:

Grow UP already,... :16suspect
The point of what im trying to say is that we need a separate season for crossbows. Just like we have a separate season for muzzeleloaders... catch my drift.

[butter21]

Yeah,... I know :mad: there ought to be a age enrollment criteria so we can get rid of all of these moronic pranksters. ;):D

I'm done with him,... :evilsmile


Bye BUTTERBALL !!! :lol:

More like BUTTERCUP...

Wise move...I'm with you..

Some people just like to post to see their handle pop up on the screen..
You guys are the ones acting childish with your childish insults.

[NoWake]

It's easy to get caught up in these heated debates but personal insults and name calling isn't neccessary at all guys.

[Whit1]

Okay guys! Take a step away from the keyboard for a spell. Several of you are getting far too personally insulting and we won't have any of that. As for pranks such as editing a member's post to alter the meaning to suite your needs all I have are three simple words...............DON'T DO IT.

MS has a formal process for warning and banning members who can't handle the debate without getting juvenile. Both sides of these discussions, as with any topic in MS need to read this and heed the advice.

I've just spent time editing and deleting posts and quite frankly it is easier to dump the whole comment, but right now we'll edit. However, if this type of behavior continues action will be taken that will involve MS' policy of Warning and then Banning.

Now, relax and move on.