See ya, Sheed

[FlyFishingAttorney]

thanks for your help in 2004

wish I could say more than that:evil:

[Steve]

Another classic meltdown.

[BIG DAVE]

thanks for your help in 2004

wish I could say more than that:evil:

lazy. just give me my pay check.:mad:

[Blaketrout]

Wouldn't miss him...

I wouldn't mind Flip hitting the road either. He takes Maxiell out, who is actually getting some offense, to put Sheed in who had 2 points and countless missed 3's. Something's gotta change. :rant:

[slayer]

THE PISSY PISTONS :rant::dizzy:

[thousandcasts]

Wouldn't miss him...

I wouldn't mind Flip hitting the road either. He takes Maxiell out, who is actually getting some offense, to put Sheed in who had 2 points and countless missed 3's. Something's gotta change. :rant:

What has to change is the same thing that's killed them five out of the last six years: No consistent scoring threat. They need a Kevin Garnett or someone else who can consistently put up 28 to 30 points a night.

[Krull]

I have never been one to blame Flip but he did absolutely nothing to try and stop the Celtics run. Not even a high school team should lose a 10 point lead in under 2 minutes. Once the Celtics got the lead, I knew it was over. He did not take a timeout until the lead was gone. They stopped running plays for Rip. Then they just started chucking threes. Taking Maxiel out was questionable. Flip is definitely gone. Time to blow up the team, they are like the Braves, good enough to get to post season, not a champion. The Lakers blew up 4 years ago and now are back in Finals. While we do not have a Kobe to build around, maybe a couple bad years and wisely used high draft picks to go with Stuckey, Maxiel and Amir, who knows. All I know is this group is done. They mailed it in.

[Can't Touch This]

EVERYONE the past 3 years has been saying they are done and should blow up the team, and yet they haven't have have gone to ECF over and over again.

They just lost the edge they had in 04/05, mainly on defense. If they needed a run, they would just shut people out, the Celts shot over 60% in the second half, the team in 04/05 wouldn't of allowed near that, probably more like 40%.

[Connor4501]

EVERYONE the past 3 years has been saying they are done and should blow up the team, and yet they haven't have have gone to ECF over and over again.

They just lost the edge they had in 04/05, mainly on defense. If they needed a run, they would just shut people out, the Celts shot over 60% in the second half, the team in 04/05 wouldn't of allowed near that, probably more like 40%.

There should no less of a goal than to be in the Finals every year with this talent. Rasheed had 2 choices tonight, take the criticism and go with it and have a 30 and 10 night, or he could lie down and play dead. He chose the latter...Sheed has wore out his welcome here just like he did in Portland.

I have told you since Flip was hired that he will never win a championship here, just like he couldn't in Minnesota with Garnett, Cassell, Stoyakovic, and Spreewell, four All Stars...Flip is a great regular season coach, but his lack of being a motivator come playoff time has become apparent again here in Detroit...That said, see ya Flip...

With all due respect Kevin, being in the Eastern conference finals has become "old hat" for Piston fans. We are becoming baseball's version of the Atlanta Braves or New York Yankees. Us fans have become spoiled as we should be. Anything less than the Finals is unacceptable...

The hungrier team won this series, the more tired team won this series. And although I don't think Doc Rivers is the best coach in the NBA by any means, he motivated that team to get it done...

[Boardman Brookies]

What a bummer.:mad:

[M1Garand]

What has to change is the same thing that's killed them five out of the last six years: No consistent scoring threat. They need a Kevin Garnett or someone else who can consistently put up 28 to 30 points a night.

:yeahthat: I've said that for a few years now. I agree with a lot of other things said too. Get rid of Flip. Blowing a 10 pt lead and putting forth the play like that in the 4th?? You gotta be kidding me. If they were going to get rid of Carliste for back to back 50+ win seasons and "not getting it done" then the same goes for Flip. He couldn't get it done in MN with some great teams.

[Due51]

So long Sheed. You've underachieved since you got your ring.
You've become complacent and your act has worn thin.


.......and take that slow footed, uninspired Tayshaun with you.

[outdoor junkie]

Sheed, Flip, and Billups gotta go. I'm sick of Billups just standing around with the ball until theres 4 seconds to go on the shot clock, thats a good way to get off a quality shot.:confused: Lets get a point guard who isn't scared of a little contact and will drive the lane. I say start Stuckey and Maxiel in 08-09. And put Mcdyess back on the bench where he belongs, he hates being a starter. With that being said GO CELTICS, cannot stand Kobe and the Lakers.

[William H Bonney]

Sheed, Flip, and Billups gotta go. I'm sick of Billups just standing around with the ball until theres 4 seconds to go on the shot clock, thats a good way to get off a quality shot.:confused: Lets get a point guard who isn't scared of a little contact and will drive the lane. I say start Stuckey and Maxiel in 08-09. And put Mcdyess back on the bench where he belongs, he hates being a starter. With that being said GO CELTICS, cannot stand Kobe and the Lakers.

Aww come on OJ,,, Billups does drive the lane..........but instead of laying it in for a layup, he jumps up and kicks it back out to Sheed or Prince at the 3pt. line.:lol: Or,,,,, he gets it rejected down his throat:lol:.

[codybear]

So long Sheed. You've underachieved since you got your ring.
You've become complacent and your act has worn thin.


.......and take that slow footed, uninspired Tayshaun with you.

Thats the two I wouldnt mind seeing go..

I think Billups has earned his stay. He's also good at keeping the team under control.. He just needs to stop trying to transition himself into driving the lane..

Go Wings!!

CB

[FlyFishingAttorney]

I agree with whoever said that once Chauncey started getting called "Mr. Big Shot" he stopped making those shots.

But he is not going anywhere after that huge K he signed.

Changes suggested - Sheed, Flip, Prince - buh bye

[Fishndude]

The real problem with the Pistons defense is that they traded Ben Wallace, and have not had anyone who fills the paint, since. Ben just dominated the inside, which allowed everyone else to swarm and dominate outside, which limited other team's scoring. Sheed gets boxed out, so he misses rebounds he should have had. On offense he stays outside to shoot 3's, which he runs hot and cold on, and so he misses offensive rebounds. He really isn't a dominant Center, and probably shouldn't be made to play at that position. He can be a great Power Forward, but hasn't been in that position for awhile.
Pistons have a good squad overall, but are missing "the critical piece." They lost it when they traded Ben, and he hasn't been nearly as productive in Chicago or Cleveland as he was in Detroit. I am not saying they need to re-acquire Ben, but they need someone like him. Chauncey does not play well after too much time off - he seems to cool down. Prince has never been their top scorer on a consistent basis, but he comes up with HUGE plays at critical points a lot of the time. I think they need to deal Sheed and find someone bigger who can dominate the paint the way Ben did. Someone young and energetic.

[MEL]

The real problem with the Pistons defense is that they traded Ben Wallace, and have not had anyone who fills the paint, since. Ben just dominated the inside, which allowed everyone else to swarm and dominate outside, which limited other team's scoring. Sheed gets boxed out, so he misses rebounds he should have had. On offense he stays outside to shoot 3's, which he runs hot and cold on, and so he misses offensive rebounds. He really isn't a dominant Center, and probably shouldn't be made to play at that position. He can be a great Power Forward, but hasn't been in that position for awhile.
Pistons have a good squad overall, but are missing "the critical piece." They lost it when they traded Ben, and he hasn't been nearly as productive in Chicago or Cleveland as he was in Detroit. I am not saying they need to re-acquire Ben, but they need someone like him. Chauncey does not play well after too much time off - he seems to cool down. Prince has never been their top scorer on a consistent basis, but he comes up with HUGE plays at critical points a lot of the time. I think they need to deal Sheed and find someone bigger who can dominate the paint the way Ben did. Someone young and energetic.

Ben Wallace went to the Bulls for the fat contract. We did not trade him!!! Dumars wasnt going to pay him what he wanted. After getting that contract with the Bulls, his play went down. The bulls were more than happy to send Ben packing to the Cavs. While very good at the top of his career with Detroit, the years and the pounding are taking a toll on Ben.

[MEL]

Ok, as i said after last years collaspe, time to blow it up.
The current mix of players is good but not good enough to win another championship.

#1. Send Sheed packing. Trade him (good luck) or just send him packing. I dont see another team interested in him and his head games.

#2. Dice my retire, if not he must come off the bench.

#3 Maxiel is not a big minutes type of player. His game is energy off the bench. But he should be a good mix with Dice.

#4. Tay. I love the guy but he might bring a good player in return in a trade. He disappears for to long and to often. Come playoff time he just dosent bring it. This year and last year during playoff time he disappeared.

#5 Rip. Keep him. He's the only guy who will get you 25+ points per night, every night.

#5 C Bill. Im not sold on Stuckey being the answer, just yet. He only has one short season under his belt. Playing a full year under C.Bill would give Stuckey a good year of seasoning. Plus, real good point guards are hard to come buy and the ones who are out there are pretty washed up. So id keep Billups, unless a real, real good offer comes along for him via trade.

#6 Stuckey. see above. But i do think the guy has game.
He proved hes a player during these playoffs. He could be a real fine PG in the near future.

#7 Amir. Dont know what to think about this guy. He s
young and has lots of years to play. But he wasnt used much???. Dont know if hes the answer, or could he be used in a trade? Lots of teams might be interested in him.

#8. Flip. Im tired of him. Nice guy and all but need a coach who can and will kick these guys in the axx when needed. But, who is there out there that we can bring in
thats a proven winner? Lots of old retread coaches out there but whos the proven winner thats available?

[ahasiec]

Billups is not going anywhere, without him last night, well it would have been a blowout...

Sheed and Tay definately gotta go, Tyshaun always disappears when it matters most, might as well trade them and get something while they are worth something...we have Amir, Maxiell and Samb for the future, we can use a veteran at Power Forward for a few years...Joey D better can on the phone with either Miami to find a way to move up in the draft or look out there for some free agents...Kurt Thomas would not be a bad addition, rumor in Arizona is Amarea wants out....why not Tay, Sheed a pick and someone else for Amare...I am sure he will find something out there...Jermaine Oneal....get some guys who are hungry for a ring not just happy with one...

oh yeah and get Avery Johnson or a coach than can light a fire under their ***** to do something...

But finally I would personally like to thank Sheed for making me alot of money, I took Boston to win the Eastern Conference at the begining of the season, was worried the first couple of rounds, but this was a blessing in disguise...

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/a00000022d18fdd/1/3/QG4mkMwO3z-kd0mvM2XbC_bbBzeBgNkb.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/0cZsbDBq4z9D2xlVUM0Yqt1MrYGYSjBj?referrer=hlnk)

[ahasiec]

Ok, as i said after last years collaspe, time to blow it up.
The current mix of players is good but not good enough to win another championship.

#1. Send Sheed packing. Trade him (good luck) or just send him packing. I dont see another team interested in him and his head games.

#2. Dice my retire, if not he must come off the bench.

#3 Maxiel is not a big minutes type of player. His game is energy off the bench. But he should be a good mix with Dice.

#4. Tay. I love the guy but he might bring a good player in return in a trade. He disappears for to long and to often. Come playoff time he just dosent bring it. This year and last year during playoff time he disappeared.

#5 Rip. Keep him. He's the only guy who will get you 25+ points per night, every night.

#5 C Bill. Im not sold on Stuckey being the answer, just yet. He only has one short season under his belt. Playing a full year under C.Bill would give Stuckey a good year of seasoning. Plus, real good point guards are hard to come buy and the ones who are out there are pretty washed up. So id keep Billups, unless a real, real good offer comes along for him via trade.

#6 Stuckey. see above. But i do think the guy has game.
He proved hes a player during these playoffs. He could be a real fine PG in the near future.

#7 Amir. Dont know what to think about this guy. He s
young and has lots of years to play. But he wasnt used much???. Dont know if hes the answer, or could he be used in a trade? Lots of teams might be interested in him.

#8. Flip. Im tired of him. Nice guy and all but need a coach who can and will kick these guys in the axx when needed. But, who is there out there that we can bring in
thats a proven winner? Lots of old retread coaches out there but whos the proven winner thats available?


Why a proven...what you need is a guy who could get the respect of this locker room, this team needs a former player type coach, emphasis on defense and holds people accountable...thats the answer..

[William H Bonney]

Why a proven...what you need is a guy who could get the respect of this locker room, this team needs a former player type coach, emphasis on defense and holds people accountable...thats the answer..

Scott Skiles

[ahasiec]

Scott Skiles, maybe, I was thinking even Avery Johnson...at least the Pistons can somewhat play defense when they want, Dallas not so much...

Having a player in the locker room would demand respect from the players...even Michael Curry was a Piston would be better than Flip...Flip ad his chance...when the 10pt lead was shrinking the last game he was slow to react and make changes and before you knew it, we were down by 5...

[ahasiec]

Ben Wallace went to the Bulls for the fat contract. We did not trade him!!! Dumars wasnt going to pay him what he wanted. After getting that contract with the Bulls, his play went down. The bulls were more than happy to send Ben packing to the Cavs. While very good at the top of his career with Detroit, the years and the pounding are taking a toll on Ben.

The only problem is when Ben left, so did the hunger and desire to win and perform, or maybe that left when Larry Brown was sent packing as well

[FlyFishingAttorney]

The only problem is when Ben left, so did the hunger and desire to win and perform, or maybe that left when Larry Brown was sent packing as well

I look back on the 2005 season and all the drama that Larry Brown caused. That had to be a HUGE distraction when the Pistons still had Ben Wallace and when they did not have to get through Lebron or a superstar Dwayne Wade to win the East. Granted, they went 7 games against the Spurs in the finals but had they had home court advantage in the finals, I think they would have went all the way. There were just too many regular season distractions with the Larry Brown sell out to the Knicks.

http://www.nba.com/finals2005/detroit_050623.html

Oh well. It was a great run while it lasted. I don't see the Pistons going to another East finals for quite a while.

[MEL]

The only problem is when Ben left, so did the hunger and desire to win and perform, or maybe that left when Larry Brown was sent packing as well

I agree with your comment on Ben. He did seem to have that desire to win and it reflected on the play of the others on the team. While far from the most talented player in the NBA, his heart and work ethics made up for some lack of skills. Larry Brown just happened to be the right coach at the right time for the stones. But hes a freakin liar and drama queen. And he'll leave you in a minute if someone offers him 10% more money.

I'd give Avery a shot with this team. And i would also look real hard at Bill Laimbeer. I know Bills a WNBA coach
but the guy has all the background and expierence.

[ahasiec]

Say what you want about Larry Brown, but the players loved and they played hard for him all the time, not one out of every 3 games...they respected him as a man and as a coach...we got to the Finals 2 straight years and were within a few points of back to back titles, what have we had since...a bunch of underachievers with more excuses than the Lions

[Bruce William]

Quit complaining, we are lucky to have a team go this deep into the playoffs every year, they are representing the community really well and Palace Sports is a class act and put's a great product on and off the court for us every year.

You start making wholesale changes and you get "The Tigers." I vote for trusting Joe Dumars to do what is right.

[M1Garand]

I'd give Avery a shot with this team. And i would also look real hard at Bill Laimbeer. I know Bills a WNBA coach
but the guy has all the background and expierence.

Man, I don't know about Avery. I like him but he was fired for not getting the job done too. After winning the first two of the Finals two years ago, they lost 4 straight to the Heat. The following season after putting up 67 wins the Mavs lost in the first round to Golden State.

[Connor4501]

I'd give Avery a shot with this team. And i would also look real hard at Bill Laimbeer. I know Bills a WNBA coach
but the guy has all the background and expierence.

Hubie Brown...One year. He loves this team and I would like to see what he can do here. Granted, he has never won a championship, but he was very successful turning the Memphis Grizzlies into a 50 win team. I second Avery Johnson or Skiles too, because we do need a coach that has a "get in your face" attitude...

Look up the list of coaches who have won a championship over the last 20 years. Many very good coaches are not on that list, mostly because of lack of talent. Flip had the talent and experience here, just like in Minnesota, and he could not get it done in either place. He would be a great fit for a team trying to make that next step and become a playoff team...

[wally-eye]

I don't think the guy's on the team would play for Skiles.........maybe Hubie but not Skiles....

[zimmzala]

2 words,

Bobby Knight!!

[MEL]

Quit complaining, we are lucky to have a team go this deep into the playoffs every year, they are representing the community really well and Palace Sports is a class act and put's a great product on and off the court for us every year.

You start making wholesale changes and you get "The Tigers." I vote for trusting Joe Dumars to do what is right.

So your saying quit complaining cause they make a playoff run every year? I always thought that in EVERY sport the
final goal is to be the champion. I always thought the players and coaches goal is to be the best!!! Keep getting better. Personally, i think the stones have under acheived the last couple of years. And i do feel that they should have had at least one more title from this group of players. Making some personel changes might help them.
Might add a little spark. I also think that getting rid of Sheed is very important. I think after he is gone the other players might just come out and say that he was a cancer
that needed to be cut out. I know they stick up for him now but i think its cause the others dont want to "throw a teamate under the bus".
But really i think other teams have gotten better in the past year or two, Cavs and Celts for example. And i look for the Cavs to make a move or two during the off season to get Lebron some more help. The Orlando is a up and comming team that might be better.
So i think that Dumars needs to keep looking to inprove
the team to say ahead of the competition. I trust Joe to make the right moves to better the team. If that means
trading some of my favorite players then so be it.
Sheed needs to go. I love Tay but he disappears all to often and WE CANT rely on him during the playoffs. But
Tay is highly reguarded in the NBA and may bring a quality player in a trade. Same with Billups, I would say to keep him, but if the right offer comes along than i say trade him. Stuckey could use one more year with C.Bill
to get more seasoning, but for the right trade it might make sence. Basically, i think Dumars will keep all his options open and no one player will be "off limits". But
Dumars is a smart GM and he's not gonna give up one of his key players for nothing in return. Tho anything he can do to rid himself of Sheed will be a good move. This team isnt getting any younger for the most part so if you can make a trade or two and bring in some young, fresh blood
then do it. Its a little stale right now.
And Flip just hasnt proven to me that he's able to make adjustments nor can he get the most out of his players.
Last year during the Bulls series and the Cavs series he was out coached badly. This year the Celts just plain old beat us. Man to man. But Flip couldnt get enough out of Sheed or Tay.

[Can't Touch This]

Blowing up this team is not the way to go. This team has arguably underachieved the past 3 years. However, unless you have say a Jordan or a Kobe/Shaq, it is REALLY hard to get back there year after year. Remember, the Pistons were the first team in a very long time and arugably only the 2nd team to win a championship without any superstars.

Looking back on it, in 06, they should've won but they were facing Shaq and Dwade, an amazing duo whose team peaked and they HAD to win one title together, it is just inevitable when a duo that great comes together.

There is no excuse for last year's debacle, Bron is Bron, but, they essentially let one player and a bunch of scrubs beat them. Not only should they have won, they should have won in 4 or 5 games, they had the far superior team and they just ran out of gas. Last year was the only year where you can look back and say they were, the for sure, far superior team.

This year, many people will argue they got beat by the better team. The Cs won 66 games in dominant fashion in the regular season. It wasn't just getting KG and Ray, it was how they played, they played incredible defense, best since the Pistons in 03/04 imo. They struggled early in the playoffs, but, definitely found their legs vs. the Pistons, all 3 super stars dominated at different times during the series. This teamed was also favored to win the title all season long. The Pistons choked though, it should've gone 7, but, i think the Cs would've beat them in game 7 anyways. The Cs have 3 aging superstars that have never been to a finals...you better believe they were the hungrier team, no team in the playoffs are more hungry than the Cs, you can see that they just want it.

So, imo, the Pistons shouldn't do much. Try getting a young, quality big to compliment Dyess and Jason, move Sheed. DON'T move Billups, my goodness, he is out best player and is the motor than runs this team. He did disappear at times, but, he came up HUGE in game 5 and 6, he played spectacular basketball and he is still a top knotch PG. They now have an up and coming super star in Stuckey, and young, energy players also on the bench to go along with Rip, CB, Tay, and Dyess.

Like i said before, especially in a weak conference, the Pistons will still be a top 3 seed next season easily. I had a lot of doubts before this season ,and look what happened. Joe D has this team set up so they will continue being consistently great for a long time.

This year, i honestly think they would've lost to the Lake-show, i don't think anyone is stopping Kobe this season, that team is just too good.

[MEL]

Like i said before, especially in a weak conference, the Pistons will still be a top 3 seed next season easily. I had a lot of doubts before this season ,and look what happened. Joe D has this team set up so they will continue being consistently great for a long time.
.

So what your saying is that we should just be happy if they are a 3 seed for next year? And i dont know if your the 3rd best team next year. Celts will be #1, Add two or even one correct player to the Cavs and they go to #2, Orlando is just a solid guard away. Either a good point or a shooting guard. that could make them the #3. And some of the other teams arent that far away anymore. Dam, Philly is a young, no name team that gave us fits for a couple games, add one or two players to their roster and we will be #5.
I guess it all depends on your perspective. I look at it as tho you play to win it all. When you have a team that is this good the only thing that matters is winning the title.
To settle for less is selling yourself short. I think Joe D. sees the writing on the wall and will make a move or two or three. I dont like the idea of trading players who ive come to love and respect but its professional sports. It happens all the time. So Sheed must go!!! and the others are open game for Dumars to put together a good deal with. And if Joe thinks he can find a better coach then Flip than so be it.
I put it all on Joe cause he knows more than i do, but having seen the let downs over the past couple seasons and other teams getting better, Im pretty sure that Joe will be very busy this off season.
With out some changes we will be here complaining that
they got knocked out in the first round next year.

[D.C.U.P.]

I have told you since Flip was hired that he will never win a championship here, just like he couldn't in Minnesota with Garnett, Cassell, Stoyakovic, and Spreewell, four All Stars...Flip is a great regular season coach, but his lack of being a motivator come playoff time has become apparent again here in Detroit...That said, see ya Flip...

I assume you mean Peja Stojakovic, who never played in Minnesota, did he. :confused:

With all due respect Kevin, being in the Eastern conference finals has become "old hat" for Piston fans. We are becoming baseball's version of the Atlanta Braves or New York Yankees. Us fans have become spoiled as we should be. Anything less than the Finals is unacceptable...

Baseball's version of the Braves and Yankees? :lol:

The hungrier team won this series, the more tired team won this series. And although I don't think Doc Rivers is the best coach in the NBA by any means, he motivated that team to get it done...

The more tired team won the series?





Dude.... :dizzy:

[ahasiec]

Sheed has an expiring contract, moving him will not be as difficult as most think, if you can package him up with Tayshaun and get something like an Elton Brand and Cory Magette than we are golden, the Clippers have always been looking to deal...Brand has an early termination option which means he can opt out, if we can trade Sheed for a draft pick and decent player/cash, then we would be able to sign Brand...who at least would be consistant and play hard...this would leave room for Amir and Maxiell to improve....I said it last year and I will say it again, figure out a way to get Baron Davis, he has an early termination option...than man shows up to play in big games and can drop 30 a night...something the pistons lack...a scorer and star power, two things the NBA likes

I hate to say it, but winning in todays NBA without a star, or someone that can drop 30 plus points on a given night is not going to happen...lets face it Orlando has Dwight Howard and they are improving, the Celtics will be back, ATlanta is young and coming on quick, oy yeah there is a MAN named Lebron just a little south of Detroit...

It's going to be interesting what Miami does, with Marion/Wade/Haslen healthy they might wanna make a run, I dont see Dumars dealing with another Eastern Conference team, but getting that 2nd pick (beasley) would be great, he is a 20 - 10 guy right away, I have seen him play in person and he's going to be a beast!! 6'10 and athetic, strong, reminds me of a more powerful Lamar Odom...

In essence blowing this team up in not the solution, tweaking is, lets not forget about checki samb, who is playin in the developmental league, scouts are drooling over this 7 footers talents, couple of them said the Stones will have the best front court in basketball in 3-5 years (maxiell, johnson, samb)

[Connor4501]

I assume you mean Peja Stojakovic, who never played in Minnesota, did he. :confused:


You are correct. I meant Wally Szczerbiak...Thank you for pointing that out. I did have a few too many as I posted that last night...But the comparisons to the Atlanta Braves are on every sportstalk radio show you listen to...And yes, Boston played the two 7 game series prior to this series and proved how good their conditioning is and Detroit had plenty of rest. Therefore, Boston was the more tired team and will benefit from this rest they will get before beginning the Finals

[ahasiec]

Come on guys, the excuses this year wern't that they were tired, just injured...get it right!

[foxfire69]

Sheed, Flip, and Billups gotta go. I'm sick of Billups just standing around with the ball until theres 4 seconds to go on the shot clock, thats a good way to get off a quality shot.:confused: Lets get a point guard who isn't scared of a little contact and will drive the lane. I say start Stuckey and Maxiel in 08-09. And put Mcdyess back on the bench where he belongs, he hates being a starter. With that being said GO CELTICS, cannot stand Kobe and the Lakers.

I know one thing...I was not happy with some past trades that Joe made but...I will NEVER doubt him again!! He WILL make the needed changes but...who is the next coach?? Not many choices...maybe Joe can work with Flip? Why Flip changes the way he inserts substitutions that have worked during the season and goes conservative is beyond me!!

[farmlegend]

Blowing up this team is not the way to go. This team has arguably underachieved the past 3 years. However, unless you have say a Jordan or a Kobe/Shaq, it is REALLY hard to get back there year after year. Remember, the Pistons were the first team in a very long time and arugably only the 2nd team to win a championship without any superstars.

This year, many people will argue they got beat by the better team. The Cs won 66 games in dominant fashion in the regular season. It wasn't just getting KG and Ray, it was how they played, they played incredible defense, best since the Pistons in 03/04 imo. They struggled early in the playoffs, but, definitely found their legs vs. the Pistons, all 3 super stars dominated at different times during the series. This teamed was also favored to win the title all season long. The Pistons choked though, it should've gone 7, but, i think the Cs would've beat them in game 7 anyways. The Cs have 3 aging superstars that have never been to a finals...you better believe they were the hungrier team, no team in the playoffs are more hungry than the Cs, you can see that they just want it.

So, imo, the Pistons shouldn't do much. Try getting a young, quality big to compliment Dyess and Jason, move Sheed. DON'T move Billups, my goodness, he is out best player and is the motor than runs this team. He did disappear at times, but, he came up HUGE in game 5 and 6, he played spectacular basketball and he is still a top knotch PG. They now have an up and coming super star in Stuckey, and young, energy players also on the bench to go along with Rip, CB, Tay, and Dyess.

Good post. Bottom line, the Celtics were/are a better team. Look at both rosters, and the two best basketball players amongst 'em all both wear green(Garnett, Pierce).

Though Flip may have to go, much of the criticism of him is unfair. He's recognized as a superb coach, and will get offers aplenty from other teams. Rashweed and Tayshaun stunk up the joint in this series.

Calls for moving Chauncey (a beast in games 5 and 6) or Rip (the closest thing we have to a reliable point scorer) are nuts.

[farmlegend]

Say what you want about Larry Brown, but the players loved and they played hard for him all the time, ...they respected him as a man and as a coach

As for the last line, I'd only agree with half of it.

[pescadero]

The real problem with the Pistons defense is that they traded Ben Wallace, and have not had anyone who fills the paint, since.

No, the big problem with the Pistons defense is that it was built around being a physical bump and grind defense, and the NBA changed their rules regarding hand checking and other contact making that form of defense basically illegal.

Under the new NBA rules the Pistons bigs are looking awful, not because they don't play good D, but because the perimeter players aren't capable of stopping penetration without using physicality. Which was great in 2004, because it worked. It isn't great now, because it has been legislated out of the game.

--
lp

[pescadero]

Rashweed and Tayshaun stunk up the joint in this series.

Yep - but even given that, I wouldn't move Tay unless it was a really good offer.

Heck, Tayshaun had the highest +/- of any Pistons player during the playoffs (http://82games.com/0708/playoffs/playoffs.htm), he is their best on ball defender, can play multiple positions, and he's relatively young.

Rasheed on the other hand has turned into a cancer of the Shaun Rogers sort - phenomenal talent that brings his team down due to attitude. It isn't even necessarily so much that it effects his play, but that his attitude permeates the rest of the team. Just removing him will likely have a large effect on the urgency and on-off play of the Pistons.

Calls for moving Chauncey (a beast in games 5 and 6) or Rip (the closest thing we have to a reliable point scorer) are nuts.

The Pistons needs at this point are:

More playing time for Stuckey - as the only guy who can break down a defense off the dribble (which post rule changes is of utmost importance) he needs to be out there more.

A real 4 or 5 - Someone who can get the ball in the post and be a reliable scorer.

Better perimeter defenders - the Pistons bigs are good defenders, but get burned because the perimeter defense gets beat and they have to rotate. LIndsey Hunter was the only Pistons perimeter player capable of stopping penetration in the playoffs this year.

--
lp

[William H Bonney]

It's funny how everyone puts up with Sheed's "sheeet" when they're winning but the minute they lose,, it's all his fault. :lol:

[pescadero]

It's funny how everyone puts up with Sheed's "sheeet" when they're winning but the minute they lose,, it's all his fault. :lol:

I lived through most of the Rasheed years in Portland (lived there from 1998-2004), and have been around for pretty much his entire stay in Detroit.

When Rasheed is motivated - like he was in 2004 - and the team doesn't take on too much of his personality (the Blazers prior to him running Dunleavy out of town) he can really help a team. When he becomes a team "leader" that others follow - it's a road to ruin.

--
lp

[MEL]

It's funny how everyone puts up with Sheed's "sheeet" when they're winning but the minute they lose,, it's all his fault. :lol:

I think most of here agree that he's really a cancer. Its a love/hate relationship for me. I see all the potental and talent and know he can be a great player. But i also see the lazy, i dont care attitude and the whining like a little kid and the Way he checks out of games mentaly. If he could get his head in order and play to his ablilties, the Stones would be a better team.

[MEL]

Yep - but even given that, I wouldn't move Tay unless it was a really good offer.

Heck, Tayshaun had the highest +/- of any Pistons player during the playoffs (http://82games.com/0708/playoffs/playoffs.htm), he is their best on ball defender, can play multiple positions, and he's relatively young.

Rasheed on the other hand has turned into a cancer of the Shaun Rogers sort - phenomenal talent that brings his team down due to attitude. It isn't even necessarily so much that it effects his play, but that his attitude permeates the rest of the team. Just removing him will likely have a large effect on the urgency and on-off play of the Pistons.



The Pistons needs at this point are:

More playing time for Stuckey - as the only guy who can break down a defense off the dribble (which post rule changes is of utmost importance) he needs to be out there more.

A real 4 or 5 - Someone who can get the ball in the post and be a reliable scorer.

Better perimeter defenders - the Pistons bigs are good defenders, but get burned because the perimeter defense gets beat and they have to rotate. LIndsey Hunter was the only Pistons perimeter player capable of stopping penetration in the playoffs this year.

--
lp

Interesting. Sounds like a post that i would make.
I like Tay, but if an offer comes along and it was the right offer, I'd trade him. I do think there are some teams out there that are interested in him. He does have a rep for being a pretty complete player. But you dont give up a player like Tay without getting the right player in return.

A real #4 or 5 is a real need here. Points in the paint are the best way to score in my book. Good things happen in the paint. Sure a 3 pointer can be a pretty shot, but give me a guy who can play in the paint any day.

And i like Stuckeys game. I would like to see him get one more year under Chauncey, provided he dosent pick up Billups habit of Jump shot first, stepping back for a 3 second, Taking it to the rack third. If Chauncey could attack the rim more he could
could add several points to his average. So i'd like to have Stuckey get another year under Billups and pick up his GOOD habits, hopefully not his BAD ones.
But, like Tay, chauncey just might bring enough in a trade to have Joe D. pull the trigger.

Pesc, whats your take on Maxiel and Amir?

[pescadero]

Interesting. Sounds like a post that i would make.
I like Tay, but if an offer comes along and it was the right offer, I'd trade him. I do think there are some teams out there that are interested in him. He does have a rep for being a pretty complete player. But you dont give up a player like Tay without getting the right player in return.

Sure - I'd trade ANYONE for the right offer. I'm just saying we don't need to trade him, and better make sure we get something pretty good in return.

A real #4 or 5 is a real need here. Points in the paint are the best way to score in my book. Good things happen in the paint. Sure a 3 pointer can be a pretty shot, but give me a guy who can play in the paint any day.

You sometimes need a high percentage scorer, just to stop the bleeding when the other team gets on a big run. Jump shooting teams will always be more streaky due to not only the lower shooting percentage on the shot, but also the higher standard deviation of that shooting percentage.

And i like Stuckeys game. I would like to see him get one more year under Chauncey, provided he dosent pick up Billups habit of Jump shot first, stepping back for a 3 second, Taking it to the rack third. If Chauncey could attack the rim more he could
could add several points to his average. So i'd like to have Stuckey get another year under Billups and pick up his GOOD habits, hopefully not his BAD ones.
But, like Tay, chauncey just might bring enough in a trade to have Joe D. pull the trigger.

Chauncey is a good point guard, and should still be the starter next year without a doubt. He's a much better game manager and passer in general than Stuckey at this point in his career... but the truth is that he isn't much of a threat on penetration.

Certainly he should drive more and settle for the jumper less, but his real value is as a floor manager, shooter, defender, and in his ability to post smaller guards. All of which are great - but you still need some players who can break a team down of the dribble, and that is where Stuckey comes in.

Pesc, whats your take on Maxiel and Amir?

Maxiell I like - I honestly think he could start at the 4 if he could maintain his intensity and effort longer. His offensive game has improved, and he is strong enough to hold his own against bigger players. He's never going to be a 20-10 guy, or a 40 minute a night guy... but he can give you 10-10 and 25+ good minutes which is pretty servicable if you put enough other good players around him.

...but you'd better have a 5 who can score, or a penetrator onthe floor with him, because I don't think he'll ever be a player you're going to be running plays for with any regularity. At least not if you want to win.


Amir - I can't tell yet. Too young and raw, not enough playing time. I can see him turning into a Jermain O'Neal in his prime type player capable of playing the 4 and 5, or never developing ito much of anything. I just acn't tell yet.

--
lp

[thousandcasts]

Why not Bill Lambier for coach? Look what he and Rick Mahorn have done with the Shock.

[KingSalmon]

could be worse.....the could strap on shoulder pads and a helmet and go 5-11, 0r 3-13, or 6-10...hmmm

[SpawnSac27]

I do not question any of Joe D's decisions...he's made some wild ones, and they always seem to be pretty good moves. He must see somethin' in Michael Curry or he wouldn't make the move...