Michelle Obama "America was a nation founded on "crime and hatred"

[eyecatcher]

This might help explain why shes never before been proud of her country.

Michelle Obama "America was a nation founded on "crime and hatred"

In her senior thesis at Princeton, Michele Obama, the wife of Barack Obama stated that America was a nation founded on "crime and hatred". Moreover, she stated that whites in America were "ineradicably racist". The 1985 thesis, titled "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community" was written under her maiden name, Michelle LaVaughn Robinson.

Michelle Obama stated in her thesis that to "Whites at Princeton , it often seems as if, to them, she will always be Black first..." However, it was reported by a fellow black classmate, "If those "Whites at Princeton " really saw Michelle as one who always would "be Black first," it seems that she gave them that impression".

Most alarming is Michele Obama's use of the terms "separationist" and "integrationist" when describing the views of black people.

Mrs. Obama clearly identifies herself with a "separationist" view of race.

"By actually working with the Black lower class or within their communities as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desperation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight."

Obama writes that the path she chose by attending Princeton would likely lead to her "further integration and/or assimilation into a white cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society; never becoming a full participant."

Michele Obama clearly has a chip on her shoulder.

Not only does she see separate black and white societies in America , but she elevates black over white in her world.



Here is another passage that is uncomfortable and ominous in meaning:

"There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost. "

What is Michelle Obama planning to do with her future resources if she's first lady that will elevate black over white in America ?

The following passage appears to be a call to arms for affirmative action policies that could be the hallmark of an Obama administration.

"Predominately white universities like Princeton are socially and academically designed to cater to the needs of the white students comprising the bulk of their enrollments."



The conclusion of her thesis is alarming.

Michelle Obama's poll of black alumni concludes that other black students at Princeton do not share her obsession with blackness. But rather than celebrate, she is horrified that black alumni identify with our common American culture more than they value the color of their skin. "I hoped that these findings would help me conclude that despite the high degree of identification with whites as a result of the educational and occupational path that black Princeton alumni follow, the alumni would still maintain a certain level of identification with the black community. However, these findings do not support this possibility."

Is it no wonder that most black alumni ignored her racist questionnaire? Only 89 students responded out of 400 who were asked for input.

Michelle Obama does not look into a crowd of Obama supporters and see Americans. She sees black people and white people eternally conflicted with one another.

The thesis provides a trove of Mrs. Obama's thoughts and world view seen through a race-based prism.

This is a very divisive view for a potential first lady that would do untold damage to race relations in this country in a Barack Obama administration.



Michelle Obama's intellectually refined racism should give American's a pause for deep concern.

Now maybe she's changed, but she sure sounds like someone with an axe to grind with America . Will the press let Michelle get a free pass over her obviously racist comment about American whites? I am sure that it will. But it shouldn't.

FYI:

I am not a supporter of any of the candidates for president. In fact, they all leave a bad taste in my mouth. However, I am definitely sick of the main stream media (MSM) feeding us all this crap about Obama being an agent of change.

Has anyone stopped to think what kind of change; really?

PS: We paid for her scholarship.

[Jigawhat]

link?
source?
editorial?
your words? lol

[xdetroitx]

This might help explain why shes never before been proud of her country.

Michelle Obama "America was a nation founded on "crime and hatred"

In her senior thesis at Princeton, Michele Obama, the wife of Barack Obama stated that America was a nation founded on "crime and hatred". Moreover, she stated that whites in America were "ineradicably racist". The 1985 thesis, titled "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community" was written under her maiden name, Michelle LaVaughn Robinson.

Michelle Obama stated in her thesis that to "Whites at Princeton , it often seems as if, to them, she will always be Black first..." However, it was reported by a fellow black classmate, "If those "Whites at Princeton " really saw Michelle as one who always would "be Black first," it seems that she gave them that impression".

Most alarming is Michele Obama's use of the terms "separationist" and "integrationist" when describing the views of black people.

Mrs. Obama clearly identifies herself with a "separationist" view of race.

"By actually working with the Black lower class or within their communities as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desperation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight."

Obama writes that the path she chose by attending Princeton would likely lead to her "further integration and/or assimilation into a white cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society; never becoming a full participant."

Michele Obama clearly has a chip on her shoulder.

Not only does she see separate black and white societies in America , but she elevates black over white in her world.



Here is another passage that is uncomfortable and ominous in meaning:

"There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost. "

What is Michelle Obama planning to do with her future resources if she's first lady that will elevate black over white in America ?

The following passage appears to be a call to arms for affirmative action policies that could be the hallmark of an Obama administration.

"Predominately white universities like Princeton are socially and academically designed to cater to the needs of the white students comprising the bulk of their enrollments."



The conclusion of her thesis is alarming.

Michelle Obama's poll of black alumni concludes that other black students at Princeton do not share her obsession with blackness. But rather than celebrate, she is horrified that black alumni identify with our common American culture more than they value the color of their skin. "I hoped that these findings would help me conclude that despite the high degree of identification with whites as a result of the educational and occupational path that black Princeton alumni follow, the alumni would still maintain a certain level of identification with the black community. However, these findings do not support this possibility."

Is it no wonder that most black alumni ignored her racist questionnaire? Only 89 students responded out of 400 who were asked for input.

Michelle Obama does not look into a crowd of Obama supporters and see Americans. She sees black people and white people eternally conflicted with one another.

The thesis provides a trove of Mrs. Obama's thoughts and world view seen through a race-based prism.

This is a very divisive view for a potential first lady that would do untold damage to race relations in this country in a Barack Obama administration.



Michelle Obama's intellectually refined racism should give American's a pause for deep concern.

Now maybe she's changed, but she sure sounds like someone with an axe to grind with America . Will the press let Michelle get a free pass over her obviously racist comment about American whites? I am sure that it will. But it shouldn't.

FYI:

I am not a supporter of any of the candidates for president. In fact, they all leave a bad taste in my mouth. However, I am definitely sick of the main stream media (MSM) feeding us all this crap about Obama being an agent of change.

Has anyone stopped to think what kind of change; really?

PS: We paid for her scholarship.
Can we get a source reference please? Just being cautious.

[xdetroitx]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/thesis.asp


Not disproved, but maybe exagerated.

[RichP]

Well, when you guys figure out whether or not it's true let me know. I'm on the fence about voting for Obama and his wife's 1985 college papers will be very important to my decision.

[Sib]

...Michelle Obama stated in her thesis that to "Whites at Princeton , it often seems as if, to them, she will always be Black first..." However, it was reported by a fellow black classmate, "If those "Whites at Princeton " really saw Michelle as one who always would "be Black first," it seems that she gave them that impression".

Most alarming is Michele Obama's use of the terms "separationist" and "integrationist" when describing the views of black people.

Mrs. Obama clearly identifies herself with a "separationist" view of race.

"By actually working with the Black lower class or within their communities as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desperation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight."

Obama writes that the path she chose by attending Princeton would likely lead to her "further integration and/or assimilation into a white cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society; never becoming a full participant."...

I noticed the work wasn't signed. I understand why, the embarassment of misrepresenting would be difficult for the author.

It's a thesis, man, you're expected to challenge the establishment an write something that gets you noticed. Also you'll note that she qualifies her writing rather well, which speculates but doesn't draw conclusions, I bolded a few above.

The fear in these chain emails is entertaining. This one is slightly better because it's simply a misrepresentation of something factual, instead of the lies that were getting circulated at the beginning of the year. I certainly understand the fear though, it's slipping away from the republicans, not so much because the dems are that great, no, it's because the republicans have been that bad over the last 7 years and America is looking to right it's course.

[eyecatcher]

Can we get a source reference please? Just being cautious.

here you go


http://obamaprincetonthesis.wordpress.com/

[eyecatcher]

I noticed the work wasn't signed. I understand why, the embarassment of misrepresenting would be difficult for the author.

It's a thesis, man, you're expected to challenge the establishment an write something that gets you noticed. Also you'll note that she qualifies her writing rather well, which speculates but doesn't draw conclusions, I bolded a few above.

The fear in these chain emails is entertaining. This one is slightly better because it's simply a misrepresentation of something factual, instead of the lies that were getting circulated at the beginning of the year. I certainly understand the fear though, it's slipping away from the republicans, not so much because the dems are that great, no, it's because the republicans have been that bad over the last 7 years and America is looking to right it's course.

Sib,
I agree the republican party is a dismal mess with a canidate who may feel more at home in the democrat party.

I posted this because I found it an interesting insight to her saying she had not been really proud of her country until now. I did not post it as a knock on her or him or to stir up fear or turn anyone off who ever they like for president. I don't really see any difference in any of the canidates I will not vote for president or I may write in Ron Paul I will be more interested in the congressional elections.

[Sib]

I skimmed through as much as I could read with any interest. This particular thesis was a bit boring to me as I thought it was a bit narrow in scope. Basically, she was questioning exactly how much influence does/will being a Princeton grad have on her persona. At the start of her education she had goals of bringing up black society with her. Now on the cusp of graduation she sees she has changed and questions where the change came from. The education, the predominately white student body? Because of these questions she decided to survey other black alumni to see if her experience is similar.

At the end she is left with more questions, perhaps it's similar with other blacks at universities around the country and not Princetoncentric? She feels it maybe worth more study because she admits that her sample size was too small to draw any concrete conclusions.

I didn't find "America was a nation founded on "crime and hatred" in the writing, but admittedly I skimmed it very quickly. I thought the overall tone was not one of anger and bitterness, it seemed more like self examination, but mileage does vary.

[Gina Fox]

What is clear is that the Obama's ARE not representing change...that they are just as racist as some whites. I am older than both of those highly educated people and somehow I was turned out (despite having parents and grandparents that one would consider racist) looking at people for who they are and not judging them based on factors such as their education, social status, or the color of their skin. The 'change' he represents is not a change at all...it is a step backwards.
I also believe that Michelle interestingly enough seems to have the same type of attitude as the good Reverand J. Wright.

You must ask yourself a question. Had this type of rhetoric been preached at the church of a white candidate or had the wifes thesis been remotely similar to Michelle Obama's would the candidate get a pass? I think not.

I could care less about the color of the Obama's skin. It is what they feel in their heart that concerns me...what is or WAS well hidden. Its painfully obvious to me that they are not a change but in reality they represent a backwards mentality when it comes to race relations. If he truly were not a racist...race would not be a topic AT ALL.

[ChapstickCharlie]

I see this trap all the time. How do people not understand that there is a difference between people who have had it good all all their lives and people who have been crapped on all their lives? Cracks me up when people just say 'Ok starting Now we are all equal.' Well it just don't work that way.

Does Michelle have a different view of America than we here in the buckle of the bible belt? Uh well yeah! Ya think? Would you?

People can spray shots everywhere trying to hit a racial nerve about the Obamas' but the fact is they are intelligent, God fearing and well meaning souls who happen to come from a race of people who didn't get a fair shake, and you ought not be trying to undermine their history.

You talk around here about righteousness then start walking the walk too. Put down your political backgrounds and stereotypes and examine these people for the beliefs you are looking for.

[pescadero]

You must ask yourself a question. Had this type of rhetoric been preached at the church of a white candidate or had the wifes thesis been remotely similar to Michelle Obama's would the candidate get a pass? I think not.

Absolutely incorrect - Ever hear of Rod Parsley?

The Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.



"On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a "strong, true, consistent conservative." The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a 'spiritual guide.'"

How about John Hagee?



--
lp

[Gina Fox]

oh give me a break...Everybody has been a victim of some sort of descrimination...maybe because they were female...or male...white, black, fat, ugly, short, bald, maybe because they were Irish, Polish, Italian or their dialect indicates they are from the hills of Tennessee.
I really find it hard to believe that Princeton educated Michelle Obama OR her husband has been descriminated against...I think that the black culture, the tradition of carrying stories down generation after generation is what is keeping the whole slavery issue alive and well amongst the black race.
My family is from Italy...WOPS not looked upon with any regard upon immigrating (legally in the 1870's) They were looked upon with distain...

Just how long does a whole race of people get to use color as an excuse? When does it stop? When do you move on?

When I look at a person of color do I SEE color? NO not until they start ranting about descrimination and how they have been kept 'down' by the man. THEN I see it.

[pescadero]

o

Just how long does a whole race of people get to use color as an excuse? When does it stop? When do you move on?

When the discrimination stops - sadly repeated statistical anlyses have shown that people with dark skin still have a much more difficult time in regards to obtaining insurance, loans, and housing even given equivalent economic standing.

When I look at a person of color do I SEE color? NO not until they start ranting about descrimination and how they have been kept 'down' by the man. THEN I see it.

It's just realty - it is still harder for a person of color to get loans, insurance, and housing even with equal economic standing. Institutional racism still exists, and is still statistically significant.

--
lp

[get_involved]

From everything I've heard about her, she definitely has a chip on her shoulder. Together with Obamas Pastor problems it's pretty clear that Obama is not as pure as his supporters make him out to be.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5897/obamasmokinghw0.jpg

[Chuck1]

That is ridiculous to think that either Michele,or Obama have never been discriminated against. You have to look no further than our politics forum :lol:

[Jackster1]

So! On one hand you folks say Hillary has no experience nor had influence in government then on the other you say don't vote for Obama because of his wife? :rolleyes:

Y'all are nuts and look as though you're all clutching at straws.

Maybe it's best you realize that nodding your head in robot-like agreement to everything your party threw at you the past decade cost you many members, the majority in Congress and, more than likely, the Presidency.

Ain't it time you held your party's feet to the fire? :confused:

[frenchriver1]

[quote=eyecatcher;2070751]PS: We paid for her scholarship.

Please explain this PS....

[Ranger Ray]

Y'all are nuts and look as though you're all clutching at straws.

Maybe it's best you realize that nodding your head in robot-like agreement to everything your party threw at you the past decade cost you many members, the majority in Congress and, more than likely, the Presidency.

What? Did someone say something? All I have ringing in my ears is, King George, Bush is a liar, and retardlickiin. :dizzy:

[Jackster1]

What? Did someone say something? All I have ringing in my ears is, King George, Bush is a liar, and retardlickiin. :dizzy:

Ray, Ray, Ray... you ain't hittin' the sauce this early I hope. :dizzy:

[Michihunter]

When the discrimination stops - sadly repeated statistical anlyses have shown that people with dark skin still have a much more difficult time in regards to obtaining insurance, loans, and housing even given equivalent economic standing.



It's just realty - it is still harder for a person of color to get loans, insurance, and housing even with equal economic standing. Institutional racism still exists, and is still statistically significant.

--
lp

That's kind of funny actually Pescy. Our insurance and credit cards have all been done by internet or mail. Never been asked what color I was (however I used a white envelope so maybe that's why I was approved:rolleyes:). And most loans are done through your credit rating. I agree that there may be some biasness in regard to the sale of a certain house in a certain area but that goes for Jews,Arabs, Chinese, Indian, Muslim etc. too. Funny how ya rarely hear these others whining about oppression. Try getting a house in blueblooded neighborhoods regardless of what color you are. Think we should scream oppression to them too? Give it a break already. Discrimination can be found in more than just color (ie:religion, gender, financial status, etc), yet most people get past it instead of dwelling and/or perpetuating it.

I heard a pretty good statistic yesterday regarding Indians. Not Native Americans but Indians from India. Seems they make up 1% of the population here in MI yet have 10% of the millionaires. Are these not people of color? What's their excuse for not being so oppressed that they can get by the discriminations you speak of so much to become successful?

[Munsterlndr]

That's kind of funny actually Pescy. Our insurance and credit cards have all been done by internet or mail. Never been asked what color I was. And most loans are done through your credit rating. I agree that there may be some biasness in regard to the sale of a certain house in a certain area but that goes for Jews,Arabs, Chinese, Indian, Muslim etc. too. Funny how ya rarely hear these others whining about oppression. Try getting a house in blueblooded neighborhoods regardless of what color you are. Think we should scream oppression to them too? Give it a break already. Discrimination can be found in more than just color (ie:religion, gender, financial status, etc), yet most people get past it instead of dwelling and/or perpetuating it.

I heard a pretty good statistic yesterday regarding Indians. Not Native Americans but Indians from India. Seems they make up 1% of the population here in MI yet have 10% of the millionaires. Are these not people of color? What's their excuse for not being so oppressed that they can get by the discriminations you speak of so much to become successful?

Just a couple of thoughts, if you had an address that was in some of the poorer areas you probably would not be getting deluged with credit card offers in the mail. You get your insurance through the mail? Nobody ever comes out to look at the property or meet with you? Personally never had that experience, always met face to face with somebody. Read up on Redlining and then tell us that the residents of certain neighborhoods don't have a harder time getting loan, regardless of credit scores.

As to why Indians tend to be successful, here are a couple of thoughts. First of all they or there forefathers came here voluntarily. In order to be in a position to Immigrate legally into this country they were already in an advantaged position compared to the 800 million or so Indians that stayed behind. So you are starting with a somewhat elite group to begin with. The results may have been different if you had forcefully immigrated a bunch of individuals randomly picked from some New Delhi slum and had put them in an inner city with no sponsors or immediate job skills. Secondly, just maybe as a demographic Indian émigrés are more successful because they come from a culture that places a higher emphasis on education and other valuable skills that can help you succeed.

I saw some interesting statistics from the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation regarding graduation rates, Asians have a much higher graduation rate than Whites do in this country. Is this because Asians are inherently smarter? Both Asians & Whites have a significantly higher graduation rate than Blacks do. Blacks have a higher graduation rate than American Indians. These varying graduation rates are not due to skin color or some innate intelligence gene that is associated with a particular racial group. While many factors contribute to these varying rates of graduation, the primary factor that stands out is the varying amount of emphasis that different cultures place on education. Generally speaking traditional Asian cultures have placed a very high degree of value on education. This is reflected in the Gates statistics. That does not mean that just because someone happens to be ethnically Asian that they have an inherent intellectual advantage and it does not mean that if someone is ethnically Black that they face an inherent disadvantage intellectually. What it means is that different cultures place more or less emphasis on obtaining an education. People need to get past skin color, it is essentially meaningless.

[Sib]

Eyecatcher posted the link I'd suggest people read what she said, rather than get second hand information. It's pretty benign. Also remember you're reading something from someone about 22 years old, most of us have changed our view on many things since our youth, experience tends to do that.

This is a nonissue, one of those issues that the offended are people that never would consider voting for Obama, whom wasn't even in the picture yet. Ironic that the people taking issue with what the future Mrs. Obama's writing would be the 1st to defend (and probably have) the future Mrs. Bush's past. That, with much more severe consequences, didn't stick, makes this is a nonissue.

[Michihunter]

Just a couple of thoughts, if you had an address that was in some of the poorer areas you probably would not be getting deluged with credit card offers in the mail. You get your insurance through the mail? Nobody ever comes out to look at the property or meet with you? Personally never had that experience, always met face to face with somebody. Read up on Redlining and then tell us that the residents of certain neighborhoods don't have a harder time getting loan, regardless of credit scores. Everything you mentioned normally reflects a neighborhood. Not skin color.

As to why Indians tend to be successful, here are a couple of thoughts. First of all they or there forefathers came here voluntarily. In order to be in a position to Immigrate legally into this country they were already in an advantaged position compared to the 800 million or so Indians that stayed behind. So you are starting with a somewhat elite group to begin with. The results may have been different if you had forcefully immigrated a bunch of individuals randomly picked from some New Delhi slum and had put them in an inner city with no sponsors or immediate job skills. Secondly, just maybe as a demographic Indian émigrés are more successful because they come from a culture that places a higher emphasis on education and other valuable skills that can help you succeed. When was the last time you seen someone FORCED to emigrate to the US?

I saw some interesting statistics from the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation regarding graduation rates, Asians have a much higher graduation rate than Whites do in this country. Is this because Asians are inherently smarter? Both Asians & Whites have a significantly higher graduation rate than Blacks do. Blacks have a higher graduation rate than American Indians. These varying graduation rates are not due to skin color or some innate intelligence gene that is associated with a particular racial group. While many factors contribute to these varying rates of graduation, the primary factor that stands out is the varying amount of emphasis that different cultures place on education. Generally speaking traditional Asian cultures have placed a very high degree of value on education. This is reflected in the Gates statistics. That does not mean that just because someone happens to be ethnically Asian that they have an inherent intellectual advantage and it does not mean that if someone is ethnically Black that they face an inherent disadvantage intellectually. What it means is that different cultures place more or less emphasis on obtaining an education. People need to get past skin color, it is essentially meaningless.
You just proved out that color has LITTLE to do with being successful or not. Which is in direct conflict with the article posted here. I happen to agree 100%.;)

[Gina Fox]

Did McCain drag his wife and small children to a church for 20 years to hear 'preaching' like that???

I am not saying that racism and sexism and desrimination of fat ugly people does not exist...what I am saying is how long does a whole race of people use it as an excuse.

Quit defending them. THEY are just as bigoted against whites, as any white racist is against blacks. He got caught and has no business running for office any more than a white politician attending a weekly meeting with David Duke would.

Use the same standards for ALL candidates regardless of party affiliations.

[n.pike]

When the discrimination stops - sadly repeated statistical anlyses have shown that people with dark skin still have a much more difficult time in regards to obtaining insurance, loans, and housing even given equivalent economic standing.
It's just realty - it is still harder for a person of color to get loans, insurance, and housing even with equal economic standing. Institutional racism still exists, and is still statistically significant.



False. Come to Detroit. Blacks with no credit, bad credit and no income get both house and car loans every day, quite easily.Insurance? Try having a drivrs license or less than 10 points, then maybe they could be insured.
I can't rap, so I deserve money from the government. I feel society owes me.

[Sib]

...I am not saying that racism and sexism and desrimination of fat ugly people does not exist...what I am saying is how long does a whole race of people use it as an excuse...

Your choice of words is quite telling. You see something you don't like in Rev. Wright and now this negative trait is being applied to a "whole race of people by you."

:rolleyes:

[MuskyDan]

when I worked at RPS (dating myself) the junk mail from the credit card companies that went to the inner cities was amazing. It was all credit applications. I don't know that these people got the credit but I know they were force fed the applications.

How long does it take a race to bounce back from oppresion? Nobody can really know the answer but I would be willing to bet that many, many, many years from now that the history books will read: Blacks in America, the least resilient race in the countries short history.

[Gina Fox]

quite telling in what way? I see and hear a LOT of things in the Reverand I don't like. I've said before, this is someone who is stoking the fires of racism..it is what makes his ministry successful...follow the money. He has made it a lifelong career, like the other good Reverand Jesse Jackson. They don't want racism to go away..THEN WHAT DO THEY DO??? its called Job Security....

And Jackster I am sick of your disrespecting ANY opinion that is different from yours...and insulting people that hold an opposing point. Are you really that narrow minded that you cannot agree to disagree???

Quit with the insults and try and post an intelligent response.

[Sib]

quite telling in what way?
In the way that is very obvious unless subjectivity gets in the way, which apparently it has for you.

[xdetroitx]

That is ridiculous to think that either Michele,or Obama have never been discriminated against. You have to look no further than our politics forum :lol:
Tru dat!

[Jackster1]

quite telling in what way? I see and hear a LOT of things in the Reverand I don't like. I've said before, this is someone who is stoking the fires of racism..it is what makes his ministry successful...follow the money. He has made it a lifelong career, like the other good Reverand Jesse Jackson. They don't want racism to go away..THEN WHAT DO THEY DO??? its called Job Security....

And Jackster I am sick of your disrespecting ANY opinion that is different from yours...and insulting people that hold an opposing point. Are you really that narrow minded that you cannot agree to disagree???

Quit with the insults and try and post an intelligent response.


Narrow minded? You dare insinuate I'M narrow minded? Kettle, meet pot.:lol:
You haven't been around long have you? We've had our fair share of all sorts of viewpoints on this site. Just because someone dares to not fall in lock-step with your ideals does not mean they have to shut up I hope. If I bring up points that aren't brought up or mentioned on The Clear Channel or Fox networks that does not mean I am disrespecting your precious opinions... It might just mean I don't agree.
Gina, you came on strong and very opinionated in here from the get-go, what is the deal, are you not used to having differing viewpoints or people challenge your conceptions of how things are?


Oh, and isn't narrow minded about the same as mind-numbed? I'm hurt.

[hunter62]

He got caught and has no business running for office any more than a white politician attending a weekly meeting with David Duke would.


Do you realize that even David Duke can, and did, run for office in the US? He ran for President of the US twice already and was elected to the Louisiana House of Representatives.

[Chuck1]

What exactly did "Obama" get caught doing? ;)

[Gina Fox]

Jackster,

I may be opinionated but I hope I have not been rude or insulting. I respect all opinions without making cracks about how people have come to form them. It really doesnt matter to me how and why you feel the way you do or who you listen to on the radio or TV or how you gather your information. You can crack open a fortune cookie to get them I really don't care.

You own them as I own mine.

I will not insult you (or anyone else)in this forum because your opinions are opposite of mine. What is apparent is that a lot of folks that participate are unbelievably rude to one another.

I am always willing to listen to opposing points of view...and do so with an open mind. Isn't that what this forum is about, the free exchange of opinions and thought...without berating someone for those opinions?

As far as being opinionated from the get go, I wasn't aware that in order to participate that you must start off slow and taper off...

hunter62...yes I did know that about David Duke as well as Senator Robert Byrd (D) was a former member of the Klu Klux Klan...all sorts of contradictions in politics isn't there?

Chuck1...

Obama is in a tough situation trying to explain why he is a member of a church that was clearly lead by a man who has voiced some pretty inflammatory opinions.

I would just like to see ALL candidates be held to the same standards.

If a GOP candidate were a member of this type of church and the preachers comments came to light ...the dems would be all over this like white on rice and it would be the end of the political aspirations of that person.

It is no secret that Obama is a media darling. It is also very apparent that he is getting some very interesting endorsements from a lot of former Clinton supporters.

Is this truly support for Obama or is it a message that the Clintons are no longer political powerhouses they once were?

Are those endorsements a vote against Hillary?



This is going to be an interesting political season to say the least.

[pescadero]

If a GOP candidate were a member of this type of church and the preachers comments came to light ...the dems would be all over this like white on rice


I take it you've never heard of John McCains "spiritual adviser" John Hagee?

The John Hagee that said:

"It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God’s chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day."

"All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are — were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans."

“there’s a clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.”

He’s called the Catholic church “a great prostitute,” and a “cult.”

Check out some Hagee video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=uViQ0hVV57Q

--
lp

[mjmmusser]

here you go


http://obamaprincetonthesis.wordpress.com/


Here, while we're at it, why don't ya'll check this out. http://mjmmusser.wordpress.com/

My point being the fact that any idiot could have copied and pasted an email into the blog. If you haven't noticed, look directly behind the http://, It's my screen name. It is a website devoted to free blogs. I do not consider that a reputable source of information unless it's how a person, the one writing it, has no life and needs to get a subscription to a dating site and get la**!

Now can someone please post a real link directly to a reputable news website. I would really like to know what a presidential candidates wife wrote for a thesis in the mid 80's. :lol:

Also, I read the politico article and wonder where he get's his information since the thesis will not come out into the public until at least NOV2008. The aforementioned date was also mentioned in the article but no real source for the information was there.

[kvrooom]

It sounds like she knows much more about "crime and hatred" than American History.

[Gina Fox]

Yes I have heard of him and read his statements. He IS NOT nor he has been Mr. McCains spiritual advisor for 20 years. There lies the difference. And IMHO he is just as nuts as the good Rev. Wright.

Anybody can come out and endorse a candidate that does not mean the the candidate has a personal relationship with them.

[Gina Fox]

It is my understanding that the thesis was released by the Obama campaign.

I do agree that we all change for the better (or worse) as we get older...I do not think like I did while I was 22.
So I don't think that Michelle Obama can be held to the fire for her thesis from way back when...however, it seems to me that her opinions really haven't changed all that much since that time given some of her statements.

Now one might ask who are we electing and why does it matter what the 'First Lady' thinks.
Well I do think they are an influence in the Presidents life, probably more so than anyone else..and more than we might care to think. Just ask Hillary she will tell you all about her experience as co president.

Think about it guys...don't your wives have sway over you?

Your views might not be exact but aren't they similar...

Jackster you don't have to answer that question...

I think the only marriage of opposites that I know of that works is Carville and Matalin and I think they have made a 'business' of that well known rivalry...

In any event the Hagee statements are discusting as well, but I don't think the situations are the same. BUT this is politics and there is a bunch of crap about all the candidates and politicians in general that we learn through the vetting process...

[soggybtmboys]

I would just like to see ALL candidates be held to the same standards.
.


They are Gina, and it is laid out in the Constitution exactly what the 'standards' are to be eligible to run for that office.

We weigh out qualified candidates based on what our personal standards are for what who we want in that office, by way of our votes.

Personally, I think they all suck...those who are left bidding for the office.

[Gina Fox]

Instead of standards, I should perhaps change it and say scrutiny...I don't want any of those people getting a pass in the media...I don't care what their party affiliations.
It is the job of the media to bring to us facts...without neglecting to bring to light unfavorable characteristics in someone's history, personality or injecting their own personal agendas. Chris Matthews (and Bill O'Reilly) makes me want to vomit.

I am somewhat disappointed in our choices of the candidates as well.

I believe always compare their personal standards to a candidate because that is the only guage we have to finding someone to represent us as a country. I don't think it is to much to ask that someone is honest and moral and that they not reflect by personal history, their behavior and yes their friends, bigoted views. Our office of Presidency has gone down the tubes in regards to 'respect'. I would just like to find us well represented in the world, not the laughing stock.
"What the heck its only 4 years (8 at the most) What could possibly happen?" Is not an attitude we should have.
When I first heard Obama speak at the 04 convention I was just like everyone else, 'in awe' of what at that time seemed to me a philosphy of uniting this country. I was inspired by the prospect that there seemed to be someone progressive in the political areana. BUT... Nobody is perfect.

What bothers me (and surprises me )that at this time of my life I was so naive to think that when you are in church, you are hearing the 'word' and not political speeches.
I admit I have never been in a black church...my experiences are limited to Catholic, Protestant and Lutheran...so I was shocked..and I don't care if it was on a 'few' occassions, IMHO a church is a place to bring people together.
Being a person who has never considered myself racist, bigoted OR descrimatory in any way, I am taken back to learn of the deep rift between the races that is often a subject of sermons. I am also disturbed by the thought and yes speculation that the Obamas may be racist toward white people.

But then again how do I know how the past Presidents felt about other races?

In November....I am writing in Jackster1

[ChapstickCharlie]

In November....I am writing in Jackster1

:D

Now I feel a sense of balance in the world.

[pescadero]

Yes I have heard of him and read his statements. He IS NOT nor he has been Mr. McCains spiritual advisor for 20 years. There lies the difference. And IMHO he is just as nuts as the good Rev. Wright.

Anybody can come out and endorse a candidate that does not mean the the candidate has a personal relationship with them.

Quote from John Haggee: "It's true that McCain's campaign sought my endorsement."

John McCain: "I will say that he said that his words were taken out of context, he defends his position. I hope that maybe you'd give him a chance to respond. He says he has never been anti-Catholic"

John McCain: "Well I think it's important to note that pastor John Hagee who has supported and endorsed my candidacy supports what I stand for and believe in."

John McCain: "I'm very proud of the Pastor John Hagee's spiritual leadership to thousands of people"

...but you're right that McCain has never claimed Hagee as a spiritual adviser. He has claimed Rod Parsley as a spiritual adviser though.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati and called Parsley a "spiritual guide."

--
lp

[Chuck1]

I can hear crickets..................:D

[Ranger Ray]

Wow he called Parsely a spiritual guide. I don't know how that exactly equates into a adviser. Let me see, Obama goes to the same church for 20 years and John McCain has declared a paster was a spiritual guide while pimping for some votes. Yep, now that is comparing apples to apples. :dizzy: Bottom line is the Obama's have shown that they are not above the race issue. The guy admitted he inhaled but can't come to grasps of harboring that which he accuses others of. I could care less if Obama's reverend said God was damning America, many religious people think that this happens based off the Old Testament. Its the talking about the white people infecting the blacks with aids that he starts to enter the realm of race. If the shoe fits wear it.

[pescadero]

Its the talking about the white people infecting the blacks with aids that he starts to enter the realm of race. If the shoe fits wear it.

It's a kookie view, but not an unfounded one - and really not a racial one. Our government has a long and distinguished history of infecting people (especially African-Americans) with diseases and testing drugs on people without their knowledge or consent.

See - Tuskegee experiments, CIA truth serum experiments with LSD and BZ, etc.


What is kookie about it isn't the idea that the government would infect a minority intentionally, it's the fact that the science absolutely doesn't support that scenario being a possibility.

--
lp

[yoopertoo]

...but you're right that McCain has never claimed Hagee as a spiritual adviser. He has claimed Rod Parsley as a spiritual adviser though.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati and called Parsley a "spiritual guide."

To insinuate that McCain's relationship to Hagee or Parsley is par with Obama's relationship with Wright is empty propaganda.

[pescadero]

To insinuate that McCain's relationship to Hagee or Parsley is par with Obama's relationship with Wright is empty propaganda.

You're right - Obama HAS a relationship with Wright. McCain is just brown nosing for votes.

Sadly, the second is much worse.

Would you disown your grandfather just because he is racist? I wouldn't, because it's family.

Would you quit attempting to join a fraternal organization if you found out they were based on bigoted religious and misogynistic ideals? I would.

Obamas actions are much more like the former, McCains much more like the latter.

That being said - I wish both of them would stay the heck away from all these kooks.

I do find McCains hypocrisy on the matter rather disturbing. In 2000 he called Falwell and Robertson "agents of intolerance", and criticized them for "the evil influence that they exercise over the Republican Party."... and called on Bush to repudiate their endorsement.

--
lp

[Ranger Ray]

Would you quit attempting to join a fraternal organization if you found out they were based on bigoted religious and misogynistic ideals? I would.

--
lp
Obama didn't. Why the double standard on McCain? Your attempt at trying to lump all religions as bigoted is in itself bigoted.

[yoopertoo]

You're right - Obama HAS a relationship with Wright. McCain is just brown nosing for votes.

The best judge of character is what a person does over time and what they do when not in front of the camera. There was a time when Obama made a first chioce to stay, listen and support Wright. Close personal relationships like the one between Obama and Wright took time. Obama continued to support him even as he continued to understand Wright's radical positions.

Having a true relationship with a kook is more disturbing then brown nosing for votes.