Antlerless incentives for new combo

[Pinefarm]

If the new combo package passes (I'll give something similar 40-60 in the next 5 years), Ed Spin posted the idea of adding a free antlerless tag to anyone who buys the combo.

I think it's a good idea, but something tells me Yoopers and NLP public land only hunters will raise a huge stink over the idea.

Here's an idea I thought of for offereing an extra incentive for someone to buy the new 3pt-4pt combo, yet wouldn't cause too many complaints, since the NRC seems to make decisions based on the fewest average hunters being offended. (You wouldn't want to offer it as an incentive now, because the present combo with the "any buck" regular tag accounts for the most dead yearling bucks and least incentive to kill does of any system possible)

I'd offer TWO free antlerless tags to anyone who bought the new 3pt-4pt combo. Both would be good for only private land in the LP. The first antlerless tag is good for a Sept.1-Sept.30 special antlerless archery season, good only for people that bought the new combo tag and the second antlerless tag is good for a Jan.2-Jan.31 special antlerless archery season good to anyone who bought the new combo tag.

Or, you could allow both tags to be used in either Sept. and/or Jan.

This offers more time afield to new combo buyers, a chance to fill antlerless tags early without interfering with the regular archery season and gives a chance for hunters to go afield after the New Years, to kill does. I would suggest the Jan. season being any weapon in theory, but in practice, since so many use bait in late season, it'd be button bucks running in first and dying like WWI soldiers getting out of a trench into the teeth of crossed machine gun fire.
At least with a late archery only season, hunters can be close enough to select non-button bucks or dropped antlered bucks.

I'd also allow crossbows in both the special Sept. and Jan. antlerless archery seasons.

This is a meat hunters dream, free tags for the freezer! Yet it gives the incentive for hunters to be a little more selective on yearling bucks.

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

i love the idea of ***2*** FREE ANTERLESS TAGS. i could take that money and buy all the saran wrap and pork butt for the bambi butcher shop. but rest assurred that this state is not going to give you anything for FREE! other than semis going 75 mph on the roads and tearing the snot out of them.

[farmlegend]

Sold!

I'd take as you've proposed, or even add a weekend of antlerless only gun hunting in late September.

[dusoc]

I'd be against a free doe tag statewide. Some areas are well below deer population goals and the DNR does not issue doe permits in those DMUs. It could be devistating there. The DNR sets doe permit quotas for a reason. Allowing a free doe permit could scew up deer populations in a lot of areas. In areas where deer numbers are too high, most hunters can easily get a doe permit or even multiple ones for the ridiculously low price of $10 each.

[Pinefarm]

The truth is, in the NLP DMU's you speak of, there'd be little impact of a Sept/Jan antlerless only archery season.

Downstater's are still the big hammer in most NLP DMU's. And the average downstater isn't going to travel that far for an antlerless only bowhunt. The main guys that would go are likely QDM types already. And they won't shoot much if under goal anyways.

You'd see far more hunters using a combo tag on antlerless deer in the regular archery season, which is already legal. And the truth is, that accounts for only a small number of antlerless kill in NLP DMU's that do not allow for extra antlerless quota's.

[swampbuck]

pinefarm,
"Downstater's are still the big hammer in most NLP DMU's"

That part I agree with....But as far as the rest of what you said. I think that this part of the nlp is about 180 degrees different from the part that you hunt.

[wildcoy73]

so where is the incentive for me and all the other state land hunters. i would buy the new combo but i would like to be able to have at least one doe tag if not two my family goes threw 4-6 deer a year we eat it rather than beef but my income is limited and i can not afford a lease if we are to do this we need to still manage the deer heard so if you live in an area that have few deer than maybe ur doe permits should not be valid for that area. i have no problem traveling to hunt or fish but lets keep this fair to all hunters let not put public hunters and private hunter against each other. remember the private land owner is just that a land owner not the owner of the deer so lets not give him more rights than the others.

[Hamilton Reef]

I could work within the options suggested. Keep talking and see what the end product looks like, then take it to the DNR to see what happens.

[Pinefarm]

Wildcoy, the incentive for the some 13% of hunters who only hunt public land, and probably 5% once you exclude the UP, is to start knocking on doors to shoot a doe, because you know have free antlerless tags good for private land anywhere in the LP.

There's no problems with deer overpopulation on public land. Go to the deer problems, don't wait for deer overpopulation to come to public land, where it'll never happen.

I see you're from Belding. If you start now, you should have no problem finding a place to shoot a doe. I hear how one supposedly can't find places to hunt around Grand Rapids. Last year I found 4 small private parcels to hunt for not just does but BUCKS, around Rockford. And all in 1 day in the early Summer. I stopped asking after 1 day because I had enough places after that day.

[wildcoy73]

over population on private and public land? the public land i hunt i would say has an over population when i can go out in december without bait and see 30 deer and 90% of them being does their is a problem what is needed is to keep the hunter from shooting the small bucks and let them grow. both places i hunt is surronded by privat land and yes i do have a few small parcels of private i can hunt. but they travel back and forth from private to state all day long and with my 270 in hand i can shot them cross the privat land right on state. and for this reason we have put up ribbions on the property line for the late doe season so when we do shot a doe we know it has step across the line. so where is this fair to the guy sitting on the other side of my fence line?

[Pinefarm]

Who said anything about private land vs public land policy and northern vs southern policy being fair and equal?

Our biggest problem is trying to make all rules equal across the state and on all lands.

I'm specifically advocating making rules "less equal" to reflect the less equal situation on the ground. On average, statewide.

I have great dislike for attempted "one size fits all" rules.

You mention a .270. Certainly you can find private land places to bowhunt around GR to shoot does only, if you do some legwork.

[wildcoy73]

pinefarm yes i have private land i hunt and can take does. but from what i have heard and read this new combo tag has no use as a doe tag. am i correct on that? well if that is the case it will not take long for the doe population to out grow an area of public land that needs to be kept in check. i agree that not all areas are the same and we will need to control the doe harvest just like the buck harvest. u can allow me to buy the combo tag restricted on both and i can fill them on state land in this area. but what good is that going to be. we are still shooting young bucks and we will have more of them shot each year do to a tag selection like this. i have taken one buck each year for the pass three years i have hunted and most years i will take two does to go with it. i have put limits on myself on what size buck i will shot. and reason for this older deer = more meat for me. but when i go out and hunt an area where i can see 8 to 10 diffrent bucks to 22 does and than talk to others that hunt this area and all they are seeing are does tell me yes we need to take out a few more deer. my rut activity is very low scrapes are far and few between and that is not normal deer activity. so yes i do like the current set up for it allows myself to be selective on what i harvest and still work in the system to help control the deer heard shoting of bucks will not control our deer heard and this alone will keep us from growing the big racks that you seem to be after. for me i want big healthy deer not yearling that barley bust the 100 lb mark a yearling deer down in this area shoul have no problem hitting that mark. with the right control of the heard we should be able to take 150 lb plus deer as a norm. but if we don't allow state land hunter to help maintane the area they hunt we will not have it. some of the best hunting around is state land but we as hunters need to look at ourselves and realize we have made this out to be a bad thing. i hear all the talk but each year i go out i see the fawn and yearling on the back of someones car. and yes i have shot small bucks but the 4 point from last year was aged at 2 1/2 years old and the 8 point the year before was 1 1/2 year old aging done at the belding station. and that 4 point was a lot larger deer.

[Pinefarm]

I think you misunderstand. You'd still be able to use your combo tags for antlerless deer in archery season. And if a hunter had zero use for one free antlerless tag included, or 2 tags, because he can find zero access to private land anywhere, then he can simply throw the tags away.

[wildcoy73]

oka that works out better i was under the impression that the new combo would be good for bucks only. and i think most would agree that would lower the doe harvest on public land. and as we all know southern michigan is not hurting on a low number of deer anywhere. yes this year was one of my hardest years to hunt on public and it took me a bit of time to figure out what had happen had to cut my time afeild in half this year due to work. but once i made the correct move i was back on the deer every day. i have heard alot of gripe about the area i hunt form this site and from many in the area. and i have found all of it to be false. with alittle leg work and doing some home work anyone can see just as many deer on state land as on private. and the racks are out there. now i must sit around the house and get all my gear ready for another season. have the time this off season to get my other bow ready for the first and all i see is a positve deer season ahead. just don't try to follow me for you will walk alot and by the time you get into these hidding spots you'll be afraid of the drag out so to all get in shape and have your gear at 100% and you will be draging out a deer or two

[One Eye]

I would suggest the Jan. season being any weapon in theory, but in practice, since so many use bait in late season, it'd be button bucks running in first and dying like WWI soldiers getting out of a trench into the teeth of crossed machine gun fire.
At least with a late archery only season, hunters can be close enough to select non-button bucks or dropped antlered bucks.

I'd also allow crossbows in both the special Sept. and Jan. antlerless archery seasons.

This is a meat hunters dream, free tags for the freezer! Yet it gives the incentive for hunters to be a little more selective on yearling bucks.

I believe that a scoped firearm is even more effective at "selecting" anterless deer. If this is truly a population reduction goal of these Special anterless seasons, then any weapon should be the choice. My personal choice would be archery equipment, but I would support any weapons in this scenario.

Of course, most of the areas I hunt would not support these extra kills, since they populations are quite low already.

Dan

[GVDocHoliday]

Would the new 3pt-4pt combo still be good for antlerless deer during the archery seasons?? Heck, that's the main reason I get a combo. If I were to lose antlerless killing opportunities with the new combo tag then I'd be completely against it.

[Pinefarm]

"If I were to lose antlerless killing opportunities with the new combo tag then I'd be completely against it."

GVDoc, as would I. 100% against it. If anything, MDNR has to do something more in the rule book to make it beyond clear that anybody can kill 2 antlerless deer with the combo tag with a bow.

As of now, too many hunters are still unaware that the combo offers such an antlerless option in archery season. Far too many hunters wrongly believe if a DMU offers no antlerless tag quota, that you can kill no antlerless deer there.

For example, just because Lake county has had no antlerless tags offered over the last few years, that certainly doesn't mean that a meat hunter or a more QDM based hunter can't kill 2 does with a bow.
But unfortunately, lots of hunters think that way. Trust me, I sold licenses in Lake county. I had to alert this fact to endless hunters. And this was years after the intro of the combo tag. You'd think after 2-3 years, everyone would understand the combo tag. They do not.

If not for that rule, I'd just buy the single tags. Our camp rule is one buck per season, so the combo tag doesn't offer me, personally, any incentive other than the combo tag gives me the ability to use it on does with my bow.

[GVDocHoliday]

"If I were to lose antlerless killing opportunities with the new combo tag then I'd be completely against it."

GVDoc, as would I. 100% against it. If anything, MDNR has to do something more in the rule book to make it beyond clear that anybody can kill 2 antlerless deer with the combo tag with a bow.

As of now, too many hunters are still unaware that the combo offers such an antlerless option in archery season. Far too many hunters wrongly believe if a DMU offers no antlerless tag quota, that you can kill no antlerless deer there.

For example, just because Lake county has had no antlerless tags offered over the last few years, that certainly doesn't mean that a meat hunter or a more QDM based hunter can't kill 2 does with a bow.
But unfortunately, lots of hunters think that way. Trust me, I sold licenses in Lake county. I had to alert this fact to endless hunters. And this was years after the intro of the combo tag. You'd think after 2-3 years, everyone would understand the combo tag. They do not.

If not for that rule, I'd just buy the single tags. Our camp rule is one buck per season, so the combo tag doesn't offer me, personally, any incentive other than the combo tag gives me the ability to use it on does with my bow.


I follow pretty much the same thing. This year for example, both of my combo tags went on antlerless deer...a doe in early November and a doe in mid December. In fact not a single male deer fell to the group I hunt with...many were passed, and freezers will filled.

I have to apologize, I have not kept up on the latest news here in this forum for the last 7 months or so...thanks for responding.

[riverroadbeagles]

Why does everybody always want to extend seasons they are plenty long enough as it is. Any place where it is overpopulated you can easily kill a couple of does during bow or gun season. I dont even bother to bow hunt any more I can easily fill my tags during gun season no sense in wasting time sitting in a tree. Anybody that wants to fill doe tags already have 3 months to do it right now the most doe tags you can get is 3 not counting the combo. If you cant fill them in the 3 months either your not much of a hunter or there are not enough does to be shooting them anyway. Its up to the hunters to control the deer in there area if there are plenty of does than shoot them if there are hardly any then dont.