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Seldom
01-12-2008, 08:13 PM
Walk-bys-
There could be a multitude of causes for walk-by behaviors but there is one thing I'm a firm believer in and that is to give them something that they want so bad that they'll die to get it. Maybe you just didn't give them anything that would HELP override the canines normal wariness!

I'm a firm believer in testing all of my lures, baits and urine as well, way before season and if you're unsure of your set construction, I'd suggest doing some testing of that as well. Some of the biggest, most highly touted lures on the market today are some of my 1st round "throw-outs". Meaning they don't even make it into my lure pouch on day one! Yup, I've heard and read all about overuse and under use of lure as you have. My advise is to use the amount that makes them work the set. Makes them dig for it. Makes them want to die for it!! In order to find this out, you need to do a lot of work and spend time observing how canines react to the attractions you're using OR want to use.

There's one other aspect that should be addressed that is often not even considered but should be given some attention. I've personally found that it has to do with canines having been negatively acclimated to set construction, urine, lures, and bait! This is an often overlooked scenario because we have this inherent thought process that makes us look only to ourselves as the problem. That it's us doing something wrong! It must be dirty traps, so we redo our traps. Must be our boots, so we change boots or gloves. It must be the brand of urine I'm using or lure or bait or anything that we bring to the set, we blame ourselves! This is not always the case!!!!

It could have to do with somebody else! Yup, could be the adjoining property owner's son out there trying to trap fox. Could be somebody down the road or two sections over trying all year-round to catch themselves a fox or better yet, a coyote! How many folks have you heard of lately setting a bunch of traps around gut piles? If you haven't been looking and listening for this type of scouting report, you're missing something very important because if it's occurring in your territory, it can be responsible for creating a very aggravating, adverse effect on your success!!

Education is a great thing for humans and so it is for canines as well, especially coyote! An educated coyote will flat out show you somethings you'd hardly believe an animal capable of. I've had two different parcels of property each if the past two years (four different parcels) where I've had similar reactions to my sets but I had already been able to eliminate most of the variables I've addressed above so I went looking and searching for the possible "somebodies". In all four cases I found exactly what I was looking for! With that information, I was able to make the necessary changes I had to do to circumvent the other "trappers" actions and get to catching coyote.

Testing lures, baits or combos of same
I never trap the exact same parcel I test on. That being said, I've had no problem trapping in the same section. If I'm testing lures and/or bait I start as soon as the frost is out in the early spring, then again I'll do another round in early September. I try to test when the canines are lean and then when they're fat and lazy.

I never pre-lure or pre bait. I want my sets to be a "one stop shop"!

I have two cuts a lure or bait has to make in order for me to say it's a good one or my primary lure or bait. The 1st cut is that the attractor has to cause digging during testing. I mean they need to do some serious digging, not just a half-ass scratch or little pawing. I want them to try digging to China to get what's in that hole!

During all testing I keep careful notes documenting what sort of reaction if any though I get on every attractor I'm testing. That could be a walk-by without a hesitation, a walk-in and sniff, etc...

The 2nd cut comes during actual field application during trapping season. If I have several different lures and/or baits I try to use them on an even basis so I can get about as true a comparison as I can. I always make two different sets using two different lures and baits. These combos are always recorded as is the catch each makes. At the end of the season I go over my trapping notes and determine which lure and or bait or combo caught the most per number of sets it/they were used.

As an example-
30 sets with lure #1 produced 10 canines= a 3-1 catch ratio.
30 sets with lure #2 produced 5 canines= a 6-1 catch ratio.
30 sets with lure #3 produced 3 canines= a 10-1 catch ratio.

Won't be buying any more #3 and the #2 will be used as my backup/change-up. #1 is my primary not only because I caught more with it but most importantly, the canines had to walk past the others to get to the #1!!!


Moderator's Add-on Note: Here is a response given in an earlier posting, to a Fox trapper who wanted to start catching Coyotes and was having a problem with his trap getting uncovered.


Since you are an accomplished fox trapper, this will definitely give you a big advantage in your quest to hang up a coyote.

(Note to beginning trappers: You might want to get proficient catching Red and Grey Fox, before you tackle the more challenging coyotes. Check out the Fox Trapping 101 thread.)

It is disappointing to have a coyote uncovering your trap. It is possible that you just happened to come across a trap wise coyote, that some other trapper has educated.

Or maybe a skunk did the uncovering and the coyote came later. This happens a lot.

But just remember there are a lot of uneducated coyotes out there, so don't get too hung up on a single digger coyote.

Obviously, you might have a problem with odor contamination. Maybe you could try using some wax paper for a pan cover rather than your fiberglass covers.

The other thing is that it sometimes takes a week before a coyote set will connect. Since, normally you don't see the sign of where a coyote has checked out your set from a distance on its first visit, don't think that the coyotes are not interested in your set. On his next trip through it is likely that he will come in for a closer investigation and you will nail him.

The amount of lure and scent that we use in the original making of the set, sometimes needs to cool down a little. If the temperature in fairlly warm a coyote can get his nose full of the scent from a distance, really doesn't need to stick his nose at the edge of the dirthole or walk directly into the walk through flat set. Then, after the set weathers a little, he will have to work the set closer to get his nose full of your lure, and you will nail him.

There are a lot of variables that determine whether a particular set is going to produce. So, you just need to make plenty of sets of various types and be patience. Besides, if trapping coyotes was like falling off a log, then it would not be nearly as rewarding, as it is when we do finally get greeted by a big old coyote in our trap.




Joe R.
01-13-2008, 09:43 AM
Seldom,

Now there is some information that will help trappers of all ages out. I know most trappers don't test their lures out. I can be counted among the guilty there. I do have a few that have worked for years for me though. I might just have to throw out some test sets on some of the job sites I work on this spring. Wonder if those urban coyotes will react the same as our farmland ones.:lol:

One thing I would like to add. There isn't a lure in my pouch that can be bought at Gander Mountain. Not saying that the lure they carry won't work, but they only handle a few and most new trappers use that as their source to purchase supplies. I don't like to take the chance that a poorly made set was made with one of the lures I use on an adjoining property.

Now on to the lure testing part. As mentioned in my post earlier. I don't test my lures out other then knowing what has worked for me in the past. When you are testing lures are you using a mock set (dirthole with no trap), or just sifting out a circle of dirt and placing lure in the center to observe the canines reaction. I have a heavy clay based soil here so tracks are pretty much no exsistent unless there is snow on the ground.

Joe

Seldom
01-13-2008, 01:07 PM
Hi Joe,
One thing I would like to add. There isn't a lure in my pouch that can be bought at Gander Mountain. Not saying that the lure they carry won't work, but they only handle a few and most new trappers use that as their source to purchase supplies. I don't like to take the chance that a poorly made set was made with one of the lures I use on an adjoining property.
Sage advise!;);) It's not that any lure won't work, it has to do with how it works compared to others. Performance is what we're after and with greater performance comes confidence!!;);)

When you are testing lures are you using a mock set (dirthole with no trap), or just sifting out a circle of dirt and placing lure in the center to observe the canines reaction.
What I look for are places that have somewhat open sandy areas such as sand blows.

Then I make sure I find canine sign hopefully both fox & coyote.

Within these bare sandy spots I look for areas that allow me to see what's going on inside about a 8' circle.

Once I'd found such spots I use just a simple, vertical, "wobble hole" and I make them about 10" or so deep. If I'm testing a lure or bait, I just use one hole per test pattern though I may have more test patterns in the immediate area.

Basically I'm looking to observe and record reactions. Walk-bys without a hesitation, with hesitation, circling, including how far out did the animal circle. Did they come straight in to the set or did they make a severe angle turn once they hit the scent? Did the animal walk by one test hole to get to another? Did they scratch my hole, was there half-hearted pawing, or was there digging. If there was digging, what was the extent?

I did this for the first time back in 1970 when I first started trapping fox exclusively. When the fur boom came in the late 70's & early 80's every hardware store had bottles of Hawbaker urine and 500 on the shelves. My lure I found back then came from Maine and was pretty darn obscure around here so the boom never hurt me except for having trespassers with sticky fingers!

Mister ED
01-13-2008, 05:12 PM
One thing I would like to add. There isn't a lure in my pouch that can be bought at Gander Mountain. Not saying that the lure they carry won't work, but they only handle a few and most new trappers use that as their source to purchase supplies. I don't like to take the chance that a poorly made set was made with one of the lures I use on an adjoining property.

I did this for the first time back in 1970 when I first started trapping fox exclusively. When the fur boom came in the late 70's & early 80's every hardware store had bottles of Hawbaker urine and 500 on the shelves. My lure I found back then came from Maine and was pretty darn obscure around here so the boom never hurt me except for having trespassers with sticky fingers!

Hmmm, never thought of that. And since I am running mostly Fed land, I'm thinking it is wise advice.

I do like the thought of testing also ... but ... I have a very difficult time finding sign, without snow on the ground. Seldom, is the reason you are testing in early spring to avoid vegitation etc that would make any sign harder to see??:idea:

Seldom
01-13-2008, 05:59 PM
Hi Mr. Ed,
Seldom, is the reason you are testing in early spring to avoid vegitation etc that would make any sign harder to see??
Nope, If I need to test I do it in early spring when the canines are lean and early fall when they're fat and not so inclined to "need" to come to a lure or bait. There is a difference in reaction depending on the lure. I look at testing at those two time periods as extremes when making the cut!;)

I'd suggest looking for any sandblows/ridges or farmers fields that have sandy ridges along their edges. Just need permission is all.

Remember folks, these are only my personal opinions and they should be taken as just that, one man's opinion:).

Joe R.
01-13-2008, 06:50 PM
Seldom,

I figured by seeing your photos you had a lot sandier ground to work with. Cross the Tittabawasse and head about 20 miles south and you'll know what I'm dealing with. Lots of clay based soil with little top soil. Snow is the best tracking I get around here. Canines even seem to skirt the wet areas due to the lack of tracks in the mud. Did find a set of coyote tracks today. About the only thing visible was the toe nails in the mud.

On a bit of an interesting side note. I was scouting a ditch I just gained permission on for rats. While walking a mile length of ditch I spotted a grand total of one fox dropping and two coyote droppings along the whole mile. Now where this ditch crosses the road there is a field approach. While walking through it I counted about a dozen coyote droppings. This got me thinking a little bit. While talking with the farmer he mentioned that a guy had been coon hunting the back woodlot during the warm up. I can't say for sure, but I'm willing to bet this is where the guy parked. I don't know much about coon hounds, but do know that the first thing most dogs do when they are let out of a vehicle is urinate. I'm thinking that is what caused the excessive amount of coyote droppings in one spot. Of course the droppings were the only sign to be found in the heavy grass, so this is pure speculation on my part.

Joe

FMann
01-13-2008, 06:51 PM
Seldom, the prof is in the puddin your catch circle chain is only prof you are a advanced traper. Not only I but most on here can learn from your post, like this one. As I have just started traping I have not tried any of the lures I have gotten prior to putting them out at sets. I think this is something that I'm going to do for next year, all my lures came from my local trap suplier. I'm not sure if they are good or bad I know that I have not as of yet had any fox/coyote work a set, but I did have on 4 different times have either a fox or coyote walk by a set with out even checking it out. I believe this farm would be a good place to do a test in the spring and fall as it is mostly a sandy soil so I would be able to see how the k-9's react to them.

Seldom
01-13-2008, 07:37 PM
I figured by seeing your photos you had a lot sandier ground to work with. Cross the Tittabawasse and head about 20 miles south and you'll know what I'm dealing with. Lots of clay based soil with little top soil.
Not all of it is like you see in the photo Joe. This particular farm has what we've always called "black potato sand". It's super black when wet, almost like ink but when it's dry, it's a light shade of gray. I do have more then enough of that heavy "beet ground" you're speaking of. So hard that in the dryness of fall I have to use my grub hoe in order to make a trap bed.

Also, I'm sure aware of what that ground is like you have. I spent almost 4 years for MSU trapping mink on the river down to the confluence of the Shiawassee and did a preliminary canine trapping study on the floodplain. So I understand it isn't any picnic for you trapping canines down there for sure!:sad::sad:

I had a spot the past two years that was just a straight 1/4 mile lane along a deep ditch that the farmers used as a filter strip and access to the fields that ran along side. This was serious beet ground and packed =even harder by the trucks and equipment. The filed off the end had been field cultivated as all of them were this year and I couldn't find track or turd one!!:mad::mad: I literally pounded in (as I've previously described) two sets and caught two coyotes in six days. It was like they fell out of the sky and landed in my sets because there was absolutely no evidence of coyotes traveling that lane! !;);) BUT, if there were any coyotes in that section, sooner or later, they WOULD travel it and be into my sets!!:D:D Sure enough, sometimes a plan works.;)

Seldom
01-13-2008, 08:04 PM
Seldom, the prof is in the puddin your catch circle chain is only prof you are a advanced traper. Not only I but most on here can learn from your post, like this one. As I have just started traping I have not tried any of the lures I have gotten prior to putting them out at sets. I think this is something that I'm going to do for next year, all my lures came from my local trap suplier. I'm not sure if they are good or bad I know that I have not as of yet had any fox/coyote work a set, but I did have on 4 different times have either a fox or coyote walk by a set with out even checking it out. I believe this farm would be a good place to do a test in the spring and fall as it is mostly a sandy soil so I would be able to see how the k-9's react to them.
Thank you for the compliment FMann.

I know it isn't easy for many folks to keep focused enough on trapping that would prompt them to do extra field work such as testing lures and baits. Most of you have a wife an kids that need attention. Jobs to feed and clothe that family take time and effort. Whereas I'm retired, I have a great wife but our kids are mostly out of state so even with all of our grandchildren, there's no real distractions except those that are self-imposed. I will say one thing though, it's a lot of fun and it's so insightful that it can only have a positive impact on the next season's success!:D:D.

It sounds as I proof read this that I'm selling something or getting royalties.:lol::lol: I'm not, :lol: I'm getting satisfaction thinking that I may be helping someone catch one more canine next year though!;););)

Joe R.
01-13-2008, 08:08 PM
Seldom,

I love those filter strips. In my area the only real cover for the canines is the drainage ditches. The areas with the filter strips are visted regularly by canines. I notice a lot of sign while I'm tending my water sets. It's been a few years since I've solely targeted canines. I think next year I'm going to give the water a rest and concentrate more on the canines. I think I'll still set some water to cover the expenses until I get the rust nocked off. :lol:

BTW I'm not sure how long you've been doing the MSU research, but I may have been the one that gave you the number to call. I was at C@B Trapping Supplies when one of the grad assistance was in buying some supplies. I got his card, but couldn't swing the time then. Now I have the winters off. I remember posting the information sometime back. Not sure if you were one of the ones that replied or not.

Joe

Seldom
01-13-2008, 08:34 PM
Hi Joe,
I love those filter strips. In my area the only real cover for the canines is the drainage ditches. The areas with the filter strips are visted regularly by canines. I notice a lot of sign while I'm tending my water sets. It's been a few years since I've solely targeted canines. I think next year I'm going to give the water a rest and concentrate more on the canines. I think I'll still set some water to cover the expenses until I get the rust nocked off.
For all practical purposes I'm really not doing any serious mink trapping this year or last year for that matter. My canine density is a higher then my mink and there's a heck of a lot less effort put into canine trapping then where I trap mink. Oh, I should mention, the skinning is a whole nother matter though:lol::lol:!:D

BTW I'm not sure how long you've been doing the MSU research, but I may have been the one that gave you the number to call. I was at C@B Trapping Supplies when one of the grad assistance was in buying some supplies. I got his card, but couldn't swing the time then. Now I have the winters off. I remember posting the information sometime back. Not sure if you were one of the ones that replied or not.
I started working for MSU during the 2004 season. They were looking for someone who was trapping mink in the Tittabawassee R. drainage system. I was, so I interviewed. Once the professor found out the number of mink I was catching on the Kawkawlin Drainage, I was retired from Dow, I had an extensive working knowledge of QA/QC protocol and documentation carried over from my career, I'd lived here all my life and knew many of the property owners along all three rivers, as well as having trapped the general area since I was eight years old, I was hired on the spot.:)

After the first trapping season I was offered and accepted year-round employment to work with the four pre-doctorate candidates and the visiting scientists on all of the other wildlife food-web studies. I designed and fabricated live traps for many different birds (Great Blue Herons, Kingfishers, bluebirds, wrens, etc.) and headed up the mink trapping studies on the Tittabawassee, the Chippewa, and the Pine Rivers. I was the resident "Old Geezer"

I know that my one Research Techs and professor stopped off and on at C&B's but I've never been down there. I actually heard about the job on Trapperman.com that year and that's how the ball got rolling. I heard that there were other interviewee's but I didn't ask or pay any attention beyond just the hearing of it.