Another "Best Caliber" question

[Kelly Johnson]

Here's the story...

I am the "Function is beauty" guy...I don't care how it looks. Nice wood, pretty checkering...I don't care.
I want a 300+ yard gun.

I'll use it for Coyote hunting primarily.
"Home property" has touchy neighbors...I want them down quickly.

I'm going on the cheap with the gun, thinking single shot for ease of use and ease on wallet.

I saw a ridiculous price tag on a Rossi Single.223 at Dicks with a Tasco 4x9 scope for $129. I almost bought it on the spot but figured if it sounded too good it probably was.

So the question is, what are the pros and cons of some of the popular the calibers?
I looked at a .17 HMR (First time I'd seen one) as well and man, that looks pretty small.

So is the .17 sufficient?
.223 or go to a .243

What else?

And is the Rossi "Ya get what ya pay for?" It sure looked nice.
H&R? NEF?

[soggybtmboys]

.22-.250 my brother. King of the varmint rounds hands down. Hits a yote hard, accurate as all heck, extremely flat shooting. Nice all around varmint round too, from ground hogs to prarie dogs, to fox, to yotes. Even knew a guy that took a deer with one at 245 yards (Not in this State though).;)

[SNAREMAN]

17HMR is way too small for what you want.If it were me,i'd go with a 243.Great yote gun at all range's,make's a good deer rifle[even more so for a kid,or women]I've heard some not so good thing's about the rossi and nef.

[uptracker]

.22-250! .223 are nice too though. Nothing wrong with either of them really.

.243 is big for fox.....most of the time. Many people don't think "fox" when buying a predator gun, but you may as well since you have a chance at both.

[muckamuck4]

Kelly,

I'm a huge 223 fan and can hit tuna cans all day with my AR. With that being said i think the best caliber for you would be either 22-250 or 243. You said you want a 300+ caliber gun. Yes, the 223 can be accurate well over 300 yards, but most the rounds you'll find for it are light and can easily be pushed around with any kind of wind. Plus the bigger calibers will put a dog down alot quicker than the 223 (for your neighbors).

P.S. I believe my dad bought that same gun from gander a few years ago. If it is the same gun, it shot good (inch groups @ 100). Never a problem with it either.

[Cobra]

223 or 22-250 are fine, 243 or even 25-06 if it may get some deer usage. NEFs are pretty good in the inexpensive price range for single shots. Rossi are cheap POS and wouldn't even consider then. Savage makes very accurate rifles out of the box and easily affordable. Avoid the major brand name, bargain basement rifles out there as well. Not really sure what these companies are thinking but they are pathetic & cheaply made. Must be looking for quick profits and selling out the name at the same time.

[Kelly Johnson]

I did handle a Stevens in .223 today and, while inexpensive, it definitely showed it. I don't know much about guns but it looked pretty terrible to my untrained eye.

I'd like to see this one in person...
http://www.hr1871.com/images/zoom_ULT_Varm_flutc.jpg

[MERGANZER]

There are a lot of good guns out there. I would check out the NEF and H&R. They seem to work well. With calibers do not forget to check out the new .204 They really scream and hit hard with tremendous accuracy as well. Good luck I hope you kill every coyote near you.

Ganzer

[Cobra]

One thing most need to remember is that light bullets & wind are a PIA at long range, regardless of initial speed. Love my accurate little 17 Rem (~3900fps)and a 25gr pill but when the wind is over 10mph it tends to float and wander at over 150yds, calm day and 300yds isn't an accuracy problem, though I can be. Get something that will at least throw a 50gr for anything at a distance, unless you're unbelievable (and lucky) at doping.

[turkeytamer41]

check the price of amo.

[FREEPOP]

Ammo is a consideration and the 223 is inexpensive and easily available.
Everyone had good points and all the calibers are good: 204, 22-250, 243, 25-06 and can also be used for deer/antelope.
In used guns you have to ask yourself if it was one that wasn't a "shooter".

Given your knowledge of guns, B.C., section density etc etc, I am sure you'll know what you want with a little more research.

[Kelly Johnson]

Given your knowledge of guns, B.C., section density etc etc
That's the thing Freep...I don't even know what that B.C. thingy stands for:lol:

That's why I've been hanging here and in the reload-target-ML sections more lately.;)

I'm pretty well set on a .223 or .22-250 as of now.

What's the 250 part of the .22-250 anyway? That can't be a .22 cal either...the bore I saw was mammoth compared to my 22LR??

[muckamuck4]

What's the 250 part of the .22-250 anyway? That can't be a .22 cal either...the bore I saw was mammoth compared to my 22LR??

I'm not qualified to completly answer your question, but the 22-250 is a 22 cal. You can use the same bullet (not cartridge) in a 223, 22-250, etc.

The 250 part i assume has to do with the casing.

[sneakboxer]

Don't quote me but i thought the 250 in 22-250 was the parent round. I think the 22-250 is a savage250 necked down to 22cal. Like the 25-06 is a necked 30-06 to 25cal. But heck i don't know.

[muckamuck4]

Sneak, now that you mention it, that does sound like something i've heard.

[Cobra]

Yep, based off the 250-3000 Savage case (25 cal - 3000fps) back in the '20s for competition shooting. Finally went commercial in '65.

[FREEPOP]

Kelly, B.C. stands for ballistic coieffifient. Basically it is a number derived from the weight of the projectile, length and cross section. It determines how well if will fly and I believe the higher the number the better.

I was just reading about some new bullets from Barnes for varmints. They have a powdered metal mass inside which basically explodes on impact, so you get no exit wound, thus no pelt damage. Also it has a high B.C.

Here's the link

http://www.nrapublications.org/TAH/Barnes.asp

I also just read an article on Savage's new rifle. I bought my Step-Father a .17 HMR Savage and at first look, I thought "funky trigger" Now, after shooting it, I think it's the cat's meow!

http://www.savagearms.com/10Predator.htm

[Kelly Johnson]

I found this regarding that Barnes round Freep.

Looks pretty wicked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYigC49tnh8

[FREEPOP]

Yes, it does look wicked. I think the big marketing idea is that it transfers all the energy from the round to the animal, but doesn't get an exit, thus less pelt damage. Tha coupled with the B.C. and it sounds like the cat's meow.

[chuckinduck]

I did handle a Stevens in .223 today and, while inexpensive, it definitely showed it. I don't know much about guns but it looked pretty terrible to my untrained eye.

I'd like to see this one in person...
http://www.hr1871.com/images/zoom_ULT_Varm_flutc.jpg
I've got the Stevens 22-250, and a 17HMR which I use at night. I think it's a good gun under 100yds, primarily on fox.
KJ,
Huntsmen27 opened my eyes to that stevens, which is actually just a Savage. Is it ugly....you bet it was, but I'll tell you what I did. I took the gun home and sanded down that stock because it had a rough edge to it, which I believe came from the mold they use. After that I gave her a snow camo paint job, and it looks a lot better. It's a shooter too, just like Rich told me it would be. That gun shoots every bit as good as my brothers varmint gun, which is a Rem. 700 w/ the heavy barrel. He actually shot my gun and wished he'd have went my route and saved some money. Don't get me wrong, the rem's are nice guns, but for what we use them for, all the nice wood, and heavy barrel are a little overkill. For the money, and for my purpose, its a great gun. Not something you'd put on the wall, but the coyotes don't care how pretty it is, when you're smiling at them through the scope. The one nice thing about the Stevens or any bolt gun over the NEF's, Rossi's, etc is the fact that you've got multiple shots. If your gun is true, you probably won't need it, but its nice to know you have that extra round or two, in the event of a miss, or multiple yotes showing up at the same time.

[old graybeard]

When guys talk about rifles here why is the .222 rem never mentioned? I realize it's range is limited to 150-200 yards but with proper handloads I would think it would be a great varmit round? Also for more populated areas it would seem to be a great choice?

[Cobra]

222 is a fine, accurate caliber, simply that 223 ammo (and the others) is 20X easier to find. Easily a 300yd gun.

[WAUB-MUKWA]

Definately a .22-250 or .243 would be the best. You can reload a WIDE variety of bullets. Even better than the .204. Oop's, did I say that? LOL Too bad the .204 can't do dat! :gaga::gaga::corkysm55:p

[jmoser]

One thing most need to remember is that light bullets & wind are a PIA at long range, regardless of initial speed. Love my accurate little 17 Rem (~3900fps)and a 25gr pill but when the wind is over 10mph it tends to float and wander at over 150yds, calm day and 300yds isn't an accuracy problem, though I can be. Get something that will at least throw a 50gr for anything at a distance, unless you're unbelievable (and lucky) at doping.

Wind is THE issue at 300+ yards. In a .22 cal rifle you will want heavier boattail bullets in the 69 - 75 grain range to buck the wind, these require 1:9 minimum twist rate bbls. Wind can blow your shot off several inches at 300 yards - even a big caliber will let them run on a gut shot due to windage.

Also remember that at that range you need exact yardage to zero your shot - even a 20 yard difference will mean noticeable bullet drop.

Check out the twist rates on any .223 rifle carefully - many are 1:12 and will not shoot anything heavier than 55 gr.

A .243 is much better choice with 90-100 gr bullets. [Or a .308 with 165s!]

Its yotes, not rodents - you won't be blasting off 100s of rounds - why not go to a major caliber meant for serious long range work?

I would use my 7mm mag for the job! :D

[Cobra]

Agree and thanks, should have put 50gr as a minimum at best in a 22. Been getting concerned with the light bullet/speed crazy cycle we're in now and the effects of wind most don't understand. Friends been doing nicely at distance on paper with a 270 and 110gr V-Maxs, may need to reconsider fiddling with mine. 60gr out of my Swift with less than 20mph winds is solid out to a quarter mile, but I've been shooting for a few decades. Any windier than that and I'll stay home on 'yotes, 'tis a long season and not really favorable weather to go after them anyway.

[bentrod]

I want a 300+ yard gun.

I'll use it for Coyote hunting primarily.
"Home property" has touchy neighbors...I want them down quickly.

What else?

22-250, with a bullet that will blow up when it hits something, you don't want a bullet ricocheting off to hit a "touchy neighbor," or anything he owns.

I am in the same boat as you, I haven't found a spot yet, but rest assured it will have "touchy neighbors."

[bentrod]

I want a 300+ yard gun.

I'll use it for Coyote hunting primarily.
"Home property" has touchy neighbors...I want them down quickly.

What else?

22-250, with a bullet that will blow up when it hits something, you don't want a bullet ricocheting off to hit a "touchy neighbor," or anything he owns.

I am in the same boat as you, I haven't found a spot yet, but rest assured it will have "touchy neighbors."

[Cobra]

Noise is relative. Anything capable of 300+ yds & accuracy isn't exactly going to be quiet. Agree, use a varmint bullet, especially in populated areas.

[Kelly Johnson]

I've pretty much settled on the .243 for the caliber.

Now for the gun...
70% Tikka
30% Remy 700

Oh...decisions decisions:D

[uptracker]

Go with the 700! I'd get the SPS Stainless.

With a .243 though, you're gonna be pissed when a fox is sitting at 100 yards.

[Hunter10pt]

check the price of amo.


This is why I use my 30-06, no need to buy another gun I just use 125 gr. But I have the gun and ammo is not cheap. I'll be re-loading soon!

H&R, Salvage, Rossi they all make o.k. guns in single shots, you should get a combo for under $300 out the door. Dicks is a good place to buy and always ask if they have more in stock or is this the last one(floor model) they may give you a better deal! They did for me when I bought my two Rugers. Check more then one store in your area.

So I think that using the 30-06 I'm getting more for my money in one cal. you can get 220 grain down to 125 grain with 50% re-coil. It's my Deer rifle and Varmint rifle. You can't do that with a 223 or a 17 but it is nice to have more toys!!!

[jmgtrap]

My question is, what caliber is best to reduce pelt damage? Also what type of bullet is best for this; a hollow point or something else? Seems like the hollow point would blow apart after entry causing only one hole. Ya or Nah?

JMGTRAP

[Skinner 2]

My question is, what caliber is best to reduce pelt damage? Also what type of bullet is best for this; a hollow point or something else? Seems like the hollow point would blow apart after entry causing only one hole. Ya or Nah?

JMGTRAP

I use 40 grain V-max in my .223 and Berger HP's in my 204. Both have small entrance and no exit. Wityh the 40 V-amax in the 204 we got quite a few splash wounds hence switching to the Berger HP's.

Skinner

[Wetlandhunter]

The .223 is plenty of gun.I used Hornady 50 gr SXSP on prairie dog out at 400 + yards and just about vaporized them. You can get ammo with 40gr - 80gr bullets. Shot Placement is key.

[deathfromabove]

I feel the .243 is way over gun.......why pound your shoulder any more than you need too.....

22-250.....204.......are both bang flop coyote killas.... they will consistantly kill at the 300 yard range...but only with a good trigger and a even better operator .....

the most popular by far is the 700 .....no other maker is close .....

[yotehead]

keep in mind a single shot will leave u frustrated when u call in multiple dogs.

[Gooser]

I use a .223 rossi with reloaded ammo,52gr hpbt match bullet.I have shot coyotes at 25 to 310yds with no problem of wounding.seems to work good for me. :coolgleam

[Old Hunter]

223 shooting 55gr. V-Max does the job out at 150 yards. Dead is Dead.

[springer7676]

Has anyone used the new Remington .17 Fireball on coyotes? I have read the ballistic info and it seems to be more than adequate for coyotes where you might have opportunity for groundhogs or fox and have a dual rifle.

[croshair]

For a daytime varmint/predator rifle the 22-250 is the best of the best. Savage produces inexpensive rifles (with accu-trigger) with exceptional out-of-the box accuracy. Break it in right, keep it clean, load a consistant round, use a good scope, read the wind, and you will be able to hit coyote or anything else at far beyond 300 yards.