I'm afraid to ask...

[funnyman]

Has anyone been to a "deer farm", "high fenced" hunt in Michigan. I have been invited to the Sanctuary for a management hunt. No money out of my pocket...would you go??:hide:

[tubejig]

I would be glad to take your place if you feel bad about doing it.

[Thunderhead]

LOL I was thinking the same thing.

What the hell...........guaranteed free meat. It'd be cool to see some of those big racked bucks too.

Don't get me wrong, I don't consider high fence operations hunting, but, if I was offered the chance to thin out a few deer that needed thined out, I'd do it just for the meat. Those deer eat good. lolol ;)

I have a farmer friend that calls me once or twice a year when he has a beef go down. I go over to the farm, dispatch it, pick it up with a front end loader, skin, gut, quarter and break it down.
1 free cow, 2 hours work and .39 cents a pound to be processed.
Good deal. :)
No difference in my book.

Go for it.

[funnyman]

I'm just curious...you say it's not a hunt?? Is it like being at a zoo, or will it be like a Kansas, Iowa, hunt...where you get to see nice deer all the time? sometimes I wonder how different a "high fenced" hunt in Michigan really is to those Texas "free range" hunts you see on TV. I think it may not be too far off from those other states?

[srconnell22]

you bowhunting or rifle hunting?

[webfarmer]

Go young man go!

[DHunter]

Go for it. Take your camera and get tons of pics of those monsters. Don't forget to post them! :)

[Thunderhead]

I'm just curious...you say it's not a hunt?? Is it like being at a zoo, or will it be like a Kansas, Iowa, hunt...where you get to see nice deer all the time? sometimes I wonder how different a "high fenced" hunt in Michigan really is to those Texas "free range" hunts you see on TV. I think it may not be too far off from those other states?

Not putting it down. Just my opinion. :)
Not based on anything in particular, just not my cup of tea. Tho, like I said, if the guy wanted a few thinned out, it was free, I'd take a few out just for chits and giggles. Like I said, guaranteed free meat. :)

[funnyman]

Rifle...I don't want to blow it!

you bowhunting or rifle hunting?

[srconnell22]

I don't know much about The Sanctuary, like how big it is. With a rifle it shouldn't take more than a day, unless they want you to target one particular deer.

[tubejig]

I could see myself now,,,,,,,,,, 10 ga in one hand, and a camera in the other....:) getting pics of all of those jumbos. Shoot, I would go, just to look at the big boys without a firearm in hand. That in itself would make my day.

[Reel_Screamer86]

I'm just curious...you say it's not a hunt?? Is it like being at a zoo, or will it be like a Kansas, Iowa, hunt...where you get to see nice deer all the time? sometimes I wonder how different a "high fenced" hunt in Michigan really is to those Texas "free range" hunts you see on TV. I think it may not be too far off from those other states?

What!!!!!!! Tell me more!!

Not putting it down. Just my opinion. :)
Not based on anything in particular, just not my cup of tea. Tho, like I said, if the guy wanted a few thinned out, it was free, I'd take a few out just for chits and giggles. Like I said, guaranteed free meat. :)

Ok !!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[2PawsRiver]

I agree with most, theres nothing wrong with the high fenced ops. I would go for the opportunity to shoot a buck for good meat......just don't call it something its not......a hunt.:)

[Grouse Hunter]

I interviewed once for a position at the sanctuary. If I remember correcltly, its almost 2 square miles of acreage and the deer are all local deer. Nothing has been brought in from outside. THey are all pigs! Its one of the premier facilities in the country! I think one of only 4-5 that Dr. James Kroll has a hand in managing. Lots of deer, but they are by no means tame. I would love to go shed hunting in there!

[Michihunter]

For those not calling it a hunt I'm assuming your speaking from experience right?
I've been on hog hunts that would leave you empty handed or gored if you went in the ranch thinking those thoughts.

If it were me I'd have already been packed. Good luck and hope you have a great time.;)

[JAG]

I just went to their website. The ranch actually covers around 4 square miles. I'd go in a heartbeat. It's one of the best in the country.

[Ferris_StateHunter]

I go to fsu up here and go by sanctuary on my way up here.. m-20. Let me tell you, I would go in a heartbeat! There are some monsters in there. I would assume this "free hunt" would be for a doe only, but really I would have a camera in hand so when one of those monsters walk by, you can snap a few photos to see whats out there.. and see what good management really produces

Brent

[AbbytheGSP]

For those who say it is not a hunt. Its not always true it depends on the operation. Some of the high fenced operations yes alls you do is just walk in and shoot what you want. The larger operations are not exactly like that. My grandparents have a farm that is 260 acres fenced. Never in the last 10 years has there been a Large buck killed in there with a bow. Most that have came with a bow have asked to borrow a gun before they left. We have had many bucks in there that have only been seen a few times by anyone. One particular buck we had in there was a monster 12 pt with about a 27 inch spread. He was only ever seen 3 times by two different people. Whatever happend to him we are not sure. Becuase he hasnt been seen since. These type of operations are no different then going to a bird farm to shoot birds or going to a farm to shoot pigs. Even with all this said yes I still would rather hunt Wild deer. But I wouldn't hesitate to go and help out with there management program either.

Scott

[Firefighter]

4 square miles? I'd call that a hunt, even with the high fence! Get after it!!!

[jme]

Go for it, no hesitation. One of my brothers-in-law is a DAV and was given a free hunt there this year. He's supposed to appear on an outdoor show but we haven't heard when. It was supposed to be a mgt hunt where he could shoot a buck of certain size. All they saw were larger bucks so toward the end of the day the guide gave him permission to take one. Haven't heard details from my BIL but my sister told me they saw lots of bucks and the one he shot is a real nice one. To me a hunt like this is kinda like charter fishing. It's a lot of fun, I have nothing against it - but I'm not going to call myself a great hunter/fisherman at the end of the day since my skill played only a small part.

Good luck - take lots of pics!

[252Life]

Quote from their web site:

" For most of our guests, this will be the largest whitetail they’ve ever taken and would give them bragging rights at almost any deer camp in the nation." http://www.sanctuary-ranch.com/book-a-hunt.html

Hmmmmmmm I don't know if I'd go around bragging about the big one I got in a fenced in area that I had to paid thousands of dollars to hunt.

Of course in your case you're not paying and still a fun opportunity.. I'd do it without a doubt!

[swampbuck]

Not putting it down. Just my opinion. :)
Not based on anything in particular, just not my cup of tea. Tho, like I said, if the guy wanted a few thinned out, it was free, I'd take a few out just for chits and giggles. Like I said, guaranteed free meat. :)


well said.

[ishot3bucks]

I've gone on a management hunt and thought it was great! The more years of hunting under my belt the dumber I get. I use to hunt some crappy land in the past and only see one or two deer a year...I finally got permission in Oakland County and now I feel like I am in a game ranch. Did I hunt any different...NO...the key was having the right habitat, deer numbers, low hunting pressure and great location. Location, Location, Location!

Sometimes I laugh when you guys pass on 130+ class deer and say he will be bigger next year. For some of us 130 class deer is a once in a lifetime buck! So you can preach that a canned hunt is not hunting, but for a lot of you, it's because of the location you hunt, not how great of a hunter you are. Sure many of the hunters here have put time and money to develop this land to become great, but what is the difference with what some of these high fenced hunts do??

We can spend thousands of dollars from theses EXPERTS that will teach us how to keep deer bedding on 80 acres or smaller, build the right habitat to ensure that your neighbors don’t see these deer, create "sanctuaries" to allow the deer safety zones, create food plots or mineral stations to develop the best antler growth...but a 3 square mile hunt at the Sanctuary isn't hunting??

Dude, go and enjoy yourself! The Sanctuary has been doing what is needed to develop world class deer, Michigan could learn a few things from this place! Great management and ALL deer started from the original heard!

[newbostonmike]

Personally, I would never pay to hunt a fenced in property. That being said, I have driven past the Sanctuary many times. It's on the way to my buddies place. I've seen many bucks standing in view. They are monsters ! I've seen the TV show they did on that place. It is one of the best managed ranches in the country. With the nutrition program they have, a management buck is most likely between 100 & 130 inches. That's bigger than 80% of hunters will ever harvest. Go and enjoy, I would.

[One Eye]

Nope, no interest in that. BUT, do as you wish and do not worry about what anyone here thinks.

Dan

[ishot3bucks]

Nope, no interest in that. BUT, do as you wish and do not worry about what anyone here thinks.

Dan

Dan you say it best. I say, do what you want..it might not be for me...but if it works for you...great!

It reminds me of the fighting that goes on today with hunting for bears with dogs...some think it's great and other don't...I say ANY way someone wants to hunt as long as it is legal...should be supported by ALL hunters.

[srconnell22]

Hmmmmmmm I don't know if I'd go around bragging about the big one I got in a fenced in area that I had to paid thousands of dollars to hunt.

Of course in your case you're not paying and still a fun opportunity.. I'd do it without a doubt!

For some reason I think your opinion would change if you could afford it....no offense to you, but alot of people swear against it, but as soon as you find out its free your all for it.

[Tsmola]

I wouldn't do it, I don't care if it's a 5 acre pen or a 5,000 acre one. I would never feel right about it and it would always feel tainted to me.

Just my opinion though, I really don't understand why anyone would pay money to hunt in these places.

[soggybtmboys]

Well, I have this to say. It is kinda not my thing to hunt 'high fenced' places, I really enjoy doing it on my own. I have been to a few places that are, for exotics and they were pretty fun. The game was very wild and was very natural and very large pieces of land. But really, where is the big difference for the average hunter.......a quality high fenced hunt that is done right as opposed to flying somewhere and having a guide do all the work for you. It's kinda the same thing, yet not really sometimes. Am I making any sense?????:confused:

You go with an outfitter, they tell you or take you to where you are gonna hunt. Sit here, watch this run, glass this field..........ok that one is a shooter.

Got to a 'quality, large fenced operation', a guide takes you out, sit here.....watch this run, glass this field........ok that one is a shooter.


Just like a lot of places in Texas, there are high fences and the whitetails are managed, and they guides know what they have available. There are alot of similarities.

Discounting the cheesy operations, and there are plenty of them out there and I am not talking abou those. Well managed, large places.....can be just like going on an outfitted hunt out of state. May cost the same, but may be more managable for an individual, and we as a community should not be so critical of these type operations.

The Sancturay, hell yes I would hunt it. Go have a ball and post lots of pics!

[Thunderhead]

Like I already said, I'd go too, what the hell. :)
But, I wouldn't mount it, nor brag about it or anything else.

This is why............

In my opinion, the hunt is in the mind. If your hunting a high fence operation, your paying to kill a buck of a ' lifetime ". I might be wrong, but aren't these hunts guaranteed? That word there, "guaranteed" is the whole ball of wax.

You KNOW that there's a huge buck in there, many of them to be exact. It's only a matter of time before you kill one, thus the mindset. There's no real hunting per say. Your there, they are there because they are fenced in, they can't escape. It's only a matter of time and the " hunter " knows that to be a fact.

These bucks come to a feeder right ? And please, don't anybody compare a farmers field to a feeder. No comparision. They could enter anywhere and exit anywhere. That's where woodsmanship skills come into play. ie; Scouting and knowing your animal.

Now, there's nothing wrong with high fence hunting, but, it's still an illusion.

It's not considered fair chase, and with good reason.

A guide does all the work in a pay to hunt situation..........like I do.
BUT, with me hunting free ranging animals there's no guarantee. NONE. Nadda. Zippo.
These free ranging animals are here one minute, and 2 sections away the next, and we can't go after them.

The difference between guided free range hunts and high fence operations is that animal can only go so far till he hits a fence.

Free range deer can boogie forever......no second chance. A good guide knows the deer, the land and sets stands accordingly, without disturbing the patterns. Screw up and it's over.

High fence, spook one and wait an hour, you'll see another before too long.

And yes, I speak from experience, I used to work at a high fence operation many , many moons ago over by Vestaburg, so I know what I'm talking about.

My job was to still hunt these animals with a camara and take pics for the website.

If I'd had a bow in my hand, I could have killed every deer in the place at one time or another, and it wouldn't be hard either.
The deer can only go so far. That's the point. Know the thick areas well and it's a done deal.

Hence the mindset. These's no getting discouraged behind a fence cause you know that the deer is still there. There's not much planning involved, there's only so much that deer can do.

The difference is like night and day.

Free range, it's a crapshoot. I kill big deer every year capitolizing on others mistakes. Other hunters spread scent everywhere, scout at the wrong times, bait with 4 wheelers, walk thru prime bedding areas etc......and drive those nice bucks into my area.

Again, there's nothing wrong with it. It's a business. High fence deer are raised to be hunted.

You can't compare high fence hunting to free ranging deer hunting.

There is no comparision.

[Thunderhead]

For some reason I think your opinion would change if you could afford it.... .

LOLOL What makes you think he couldn't afford it ? ;)

[Nimrod1]

I would bet good money that they will not allow you to photograph the big boys walking around. They don't allow it, because it could present a problem when "Daddy Big Bucks" comes and puts down a ton of cash to shoot the big boy, then goes to brag to boys at the club about the monster he shot in Alberta/Saskatchewan/where ever, and someone comes up with pics down on the ranch.:dizzy:

If given the chance I would go in a heart beat! You wouldn't have to ask me twice. The Sanctuary is a big piece of wild ground, with good management they have grown some tremendous bucks.

It still is different than shooting free ranging deer. My taxidermist does all the mounts for the Sanctuary. When I went to pick up my biggest buck to date, he chewed my rump for even looking at the ranch bucks. He felt mine was the best buck of the season that he had seen.:D

[srconnell22]

LOLOL What makes you think he couldn't afford it ? ;)

Thats why I threw my disclaimer in there... I wasn't saying he couldn't and was in no way saying anything to him in particular. I should have been more clear about that, I apologize.

I was pointing out the fact that so many people would do it in a heartbeat if it was on someone else's tab, but they are also the first ones to say that "oh, it's not for me."

To me character is what you do when noone is watching. To me a decision shouldnt be any different whether its your money or someone elses. So why is it that whether or not someone will do something would change depending on if it was free or not? Take the $$$ out of it and all of a sudden "oh, it's not for me" turns into "heck yeah, let's go!"

Just my opinion.

[tracker14]

Like they say just do it.Yes I'd go if I were you even if its not sucessfull its free.:woohoo1:

[soggybtmboys]

I hear what you are saying Thunder, and I respect your point of view, I was referring to places that have huge tracts of land, a couple thousand acres or more. That is pretty close to be all intensive purposes of being free ranging. You are right, the confidence thing is huge. Most outfitters on free ranging whitetails will guarantee you a shot, not an animal. You know as well as I do, as a guide you cannot guarantee the shooting skills or hunting skills of a client, nor the weather. Besides, a fella hunting a ranch that is enclosed cannot enter his kill into a P&Y or B&C book. I would not care if a guy wanted to mount it either, maybe that is why he went.....something to put on the wall. I do agree with you about the bragging factor though!

[Thunderhead]

I'm sure no offense was taken. :) More of a tounge in cheek.

As far as charactor is concerned, I wouldn't look at it the same as if I were hunting my normal spots. This is a management hunt. Free guaranteed meat.
A Turkey shoot so to speak, and who doesn't like a good turkey shoot ? :)

I think charactor would come into play if a guy tried passing it off as something else, as was mentioned earlier.........

Go and have fun for what it is. No biggie. :)

But no, I wouldn't pay 15000.00 to kill a big ole buck. lol


wow, 15 grand +. I can't even imagine !

[Thunderhead]

Your right on about the confidence thing soggybtmboys.

That, to me makes all the difference in the world and is the hardest part of hunting. Sitting and hoping like hell that the big one is still around and telling yourself that you did everything right. :)

[soggybtmboys]

I got a good one for ya Thunder. This pertains to bragging rights.

Last year, I had taken my best buck ever....a really nice 9 point and was a wide racked buck taken out of Washtenaw. His pic is in my gallery, pics really do not do him justice, the mount turned out beautiful and is much larger than the pics show. Anyways, I was picking up the rack for a venison night dinner. Picking up my rack I saw another rack on the counter top and it was just massive. I was admiring it when my taxi said it was a ranch buck, and mine was much better. Well I was looking at the tag and knew the name, and he was on his way in to get it for the venison night dinner as well. I was there when he picked it up and he just had this sideways look on his face and finally said, heck of a nice buck you got, and smirked and said his was a ranch buck.

Well, Dinner night rolls around and I was waiting for this fella to get up and tell his story and enter it into the contest. He got up and looked at me and smiled and went into this big long thing about walking uphill both ways in snow and all kinds of very funny and outlandish things. Then he starts laughing and says it is a ranch buck and I saw him at the taxi's house. Everyone started laughing and throwing popcorn at him and pretzels. We knew he would have tried to pass it off as a free ranging buck had I not seen him. It was pretty funny, but the point is what we were talking about earlier. When I was leaving that nigh he gave me a parting shot ans was like he, grab hold of this ....thats what 3,000 bucks feels like! I grabbed the rack, sniffed it......tapped it, shook it a little and then scratched my ass with it and said yep it is sure is 3,000 bucks. The whole places busted out laughing, and he was pretty embarrassed. Kinda funny, but now we have a running one up thing now. He was a good sport about the whole thing. None of us men won the contest, we voted the best buck and story was a youngester with a 5 point!

[oldrank]

id do it in a heart beat.........and talk sh** to all my buddies if i killed a big one......LMAO!!!!!!...no doubt

[November Sunrise]

As far as charactor is concerned, I wouldn't look at it the same as if I were hunting my normal spots. This is a management hunt. Free guaranteed meat.
A Turkey shoot so to speak, and who doesn't like a good turkey shoot ? :)

I think charactor would come into play if a guy tried passing it off as something else, as was mentioned earlier.........

Go and have fun for what it is. No biggie. :)

Exactly. Go and enjoy it for what it is.

[Michihunter]

I can respect Thunderheads "opinion" but let's say that free ranging deer on the other side of the fence is shot. Would you also consider that unfair because he just happened to run the way the fence was? How bout a canyon wall? A Cliff? A freeway? More property fenxces? Isn't it just as possible to hunt so called "free ranging" deer in an area that presents the same obstacles in a much smaller area than 4 sq miles? Is that also "unfair? Let's be real here. What constitutes a fair chase? No obstacles? For how big an area? The Atlantic and Pacific oceans seem like some pretty big obstacles. So where is the line drawn? My personal area to hunt is surrounded on one side by a strip mine cliff (limestone quarry) on the other by Lake Huron, on the other US 23. and on the other a high fence (private property of another resident). All told there is approx 14K acres in that area. Is that unfair? Once again, those that are against High Fence operations probably have never truly tried to hunt them. Because that's exactly what you have to do in most of them- HUNT.

Good luck on your HUNT.;)

[Thunderhead]

LOL Oceans? Mountains ? Canyon walls ? That's a pretty silly comparision. ;)

We're talking about an enclosed perimeter here.

I'm not even going to justify my opinion by explaining the difference between a fabricated fence whose sole purpose is to keep in deer to be shot for money and a canyon wall...........or an ocean..........or a highway........or Mt. Rushmore.....

Where is the line drawn ? They didn't build highways to stop deer from leaving an area. As far as natural bounderies, you have to take that up with God. ;)

[ishot3bucks]

Thunderhead...You are very fortunate to have access to over 2000 acres in all those counties...and I know most is not State land. LOL My free range is fighting the public on State land with no management AT ALL, or to hunt my few acres that I have.

I know you told the guy: "Like I already said, I'd go too, what the hell. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
But, I wouldn't mount it, nor brag about it or anything else."

Come on...I would have to mount it?

Isn't hunting about memories...what if it was a final hunt with a Father or Grandfather that was not physically capable of accessing an area to get a big buck? All I'm sticking to is...let ANY type of hunting be accepted by ALL hunters or we are fighting a losing battle with the non-hunting public. They see all of us shooting "Bambi" and think it is easy, they don't care if it's free range, they don't care how much time you scout, they just know we kill. They will even look at you and say how hard can it be: you state in your very generous auction: I've been hunting this ground for over 30 years and know every tree, deer trail, bedding area and food source. It's all perception and we should stand together for all types of hunting.

If it's the money, then why do guides like yourself "charge" for a deer...because there is a price for everything. So why should someone look down on someone willing to pay thousands of their hard earned money to kill a deer with a professional game ranch that's a guarantee (which is not true at the sanctuary for a management hunt...I've been there) and someone paying you without any type of guarantee?

Thunderhead I respect all your opinions and I am truly impressed with your auction...I am not trying to debate you...I am just throwing my 2 cents into the conversation and trying to let others see that we have to appreciate any type of legal hunting, or we alienate our sport.

[GreenMachine]

Am I a fan of caged "hunts?" No.
If I was offered to come along on one for free, would I take it?

I'd be on that like white on rice. On a paper plate. In a snowstorm.

Have fun!

[Thunderhead]

Thunderhead...You are very fortunate to have access to over 2000 acres and all those counties...and I know most is not State land. LOL My free range is fighting the public on State land with no management AT ALL, or to hunt my few acres that I have.

I know you told the guy: "Like I already said, I'd go too, what the hell. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
But, I wouldn't mount it, nor brag about it or anything else."

Come on...I would have to mount it?

Isn't hunting about memories...what if it was a final hunt with a Father or Grandfather that was not physically capable of accessing an area to get a big buck? All I'm sticking to is...let ANY type of hunting be accepted by ALL hunters or we are fighting a losing battle with the non-hunting public. They see all of us shooting "Bambi" and think it is easy, they don't care if it's free range, they don't care how much time you scout, they just know we kill. They will even look at you and say how hard can it be: you state in your very generous auction: I've been hunting this ground for over 30 years and know every tree, deer trail, bedding area and food source. It's all perception and we should stand together for all types of hunting.

If it's the money, then why do guides like yourself "charge" for a deer...because there is a price for everything. So why should someone look down on someone willing to pay thousands of their hard earned money to kill a deer with a professional game ranch that's a guarantee (which is not true at the sanctuary for a management hunt...I've been there) and someone paying you without any type of guarantee?

Thunderhead I respect all your opinions and I am truly impressed with your auction...I am not trying to debate you...I am just throwing my 2 cents into the conversation and trying to let others see that we have to appreciate any type of legal hunting, or we alienate our sport.


I could care less what he does. I never even hinted that I looked down on anybody, if fact, if you read my posts you'll see that I said repeatedly there's nothing wrong with it.

Man, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm not going to compromise my principles to apease a bunch of anti hunting nut cases. Goes against the grain.
Them anti's can all kiss my hiney. I'm not here to impress anything on them folks. ;)

BTW, the 2000 acres is for Turkeys, not deer.

I'm not against enclosures. I just don't consider it " hunting " and never will.
If you do that's fine. :)

[ishot3bucks]

No mountain or mole hill..:lol:
Just good conversation..while I lose in hold-em online!:lol:

[252Life]

For some reason I think your opinion would change if you could afford it....no offense to you, but alot of people swear against it, but as soon as you find out its free your all for it.

I don't quite understand your point.

All I am saying is that I would never pay to harvest a caged deer. Of course I would go for free if presented with the opportunity. Hell, I'll go see the Lions for free (as long as I also get free parking) LOL. I'll go to Florida in August for free. I'll do a lot of things ....for free.

I will not, however, turn around and brag about it as their website implies. I would not mount it either.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Tom. Although this sounds fun, it is not a hunt. We spend way too much time choosing and analyzing our own hunting locations, creating better habitats, studying movement year around to only call our days afield with weapon in hand the hunt. To me, everything from looking at aerial photos, to food plots to QDM, to hours spent practicing is all part of the hunt.

[srconnell22]

So finding and harvesting one particular deer on a four square mile piece of property wouldn't be a hunt? I disagree.

If they threw you in there and just said here's a big bait pile and within a couple hours 4 or 5 bucks will come in, don't shoot anything over 150"...yeah, I agree, not a hunt. I would classify that as a shoot.

But, I'd bet anyone on here the price of their hunt they couldn't pick out one deer and harvest that deer with a bow on 4 square miles of ground within a couple of days, without being set up within 100 yards of a feeding area. A rifle...perhaps, but not a bow.

The logistics of it just don't work...that deer has 2500+ acres to roam, it's not going to just hang out and wait to get shot. Especially there, that herd has been around a long time...they've gone through alot of hunting seasons...they aren't going to walk up to you looking for an apple no matter how much you'd like to think they do since there is a 10' fence within 2 miles of them from any location on the property.

[funnyman]

ok no fighting... lets see if I got this right...

I will go, and enjoy some family fun....hopefully shoot a deer (129 class or smaller), go home, don't mount it, don't brag, get the meat...and so on.

Just kidding...wow you guys really get into some topics!!

Thanks for all the advice, But first off, it is set for next year...Dad is setting the trip up. (I am spoiled!) I am going to spend time with my family and I hope we have a great time!

Thanks for the advice and opinions.

[Socks]

Go for it!