....crabapples for deer....

[fairfax1]

This thread is a derivative spun off of a really excellent thread started by Bish called "Shrubs/Tree Pics"...it is at: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194897

In that thread I attempted to respond to a query by RiverRat concerning crabapples. I had earlier made an effort to learn a bit about crabs and thought that some of the links I had dug up might be useful to others. I promised I'd get to it....then huntin' season intervened. But, I got a little time tonight. Here's what I think I know:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/sc154/sc154_12.html

http://ohioline.osu.edu/sc152/sc152_4.html

http://ohioline.osu.edu/b874/b874_2.html

These Ohio State links publish lists of crabs with their attributes. It is geared towards ornamental crabs...but there is some information on larger fruited. If you dig into any crab research you'll quickly find there is a plethora of information on the web; however, the vast vast majority of it is focused on ornamentals. Obviously, that is what is most popular --and lucrative - for the huge landscape trade. Large fruited, or edible crabs, do not appear to have had a whole lot of academics looking at 'em.

Still, you can find useful info in some of these sources.

http://secrest.osu.edu/newsreleases/ediblecrabapples.asp

http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modzz/modzzc.html

The MSU list is really interesting. First, it is huge; second, it is Michigan specific. In the link you will need to scroll down to 'crabapples' and then click to the alphabetical list of cultivars.

I have yet to find a single source that details crab maturities...as in, when does the fruit drop? The website for Adams County Nurseries is excellent for common eating apples...in fact, it is a very user-friendly site for learning about domestic apples varieties and their disease resistance, rootstocks, blossom time, and fruit maturity. Nothing like it seems to exist for crabs though.

On my own place I have planted:
Zumi
Siberian
Professor Sprenger
Prairiefire
Indian Magic
Chesnut
Dolgo
Winter Wildlife
Centennial

All are too young to bear fruit and all but the Chestnut are thriving.

Other crabs I have on my list to researach and perhaps plant are:

Kern
Callaway
Whitney
Hysop
Everest
Transcendent
Ralph Shay
Columbia
Trailman

I'd also recommend the website for St.Lawrence Nursery (you can google it). They have a lot of different non-ornamental crabs. I have bought from them and have been pleased with the product and service. The website is informative.

.....................................

You can go back to Bish's thread and see other info on crabapple sources.

[COHO]

I used to work at a tree farm 10 years ago, and we had most of those crabs you planted, the deer like them all , but none are as good as the red jewel crabapple. that variety would get picked clean as high as they could reach. the farm is in s.e. mich, livingston co. you should be able to find them for about 120.00 retail with fruit on them now (1-1/2" - 2" caliper trunk )

[answerguy8]

I used to work at a tree farm 10 years ago, and we had most of those crabs you planted, the deer like them all , but none are as good as the red jewel crabapple. that variety would get picked clean as high as they could reach. the farm is in s.e. mich, livingston co. you should be able to find them for about 120.00 retail with fruit on them now (1-1/2" - 2" caliper trunk )

How many deer do they include for the $120?:confused:

[COHO]

How many deer do they include for the $120?:confused:

every deer in your area till the apples are gone;) you can probably get them as seedlings for about 400.00 per 100ct. but you will have to wait years for them to get that big. we used to buy them as whips, about 5' tall and 1/2" caliper, they would come bare root for about 10.00 per tree.3 to 4 years later we would get 85.00 wholesale for them for a 2" cal tree.

[Direwolfe]

Its necessary to be clear in referring to grafted trees or seedlings. There seems to be some confusion. I've seen references to varieties or cultivars. Those must be grafted to retain the characteristics of the parent or scion. If one wants a Red Jewell tree you need to graft a piece of Red Jewel on an apple rootstock and grow it out. These are probably what Coho refers to as the one year old whips (no branches).This is the plant version of cloning. Planting seeds of one will certainly give you crabapple trees but most assuredly will not give you the same tree as the parent. That is sexual reproduction and whether its plants or people the offspring will not be exact copies. Breeders plant thousands of seeds, grow them to fruiting and evaluate. They would be lucky to get one worthwhile new variety from the thousands of seeds. Same with people. Imagine how many kids would need to be grown and evaluated to find the next NFL all-star. The phrase one-in-a-million comes to mind.

So when someone says they planted one hundred variety XYZ apple trees, did they plant one hundred XYZ trees or did the plant one hundred seedlings from a XYZ tree? The grafting is done by hand and adds a labor charge. Thus a tree that is being sold for less than $5 is probably not grafted. A grafted tree, grown out for one season usually goes for between $8 and $30 depending on number ordered and how robust the tree is.

Nothing wrong with seedling apple trees. I have dozens planted at my places. I also have several hundred grafted ones (done by yourself you can purchase the supplies for about $2 a tree). Planting seedlings is how you look for new varieties and I've never seen a deer refuse an apple because it was from a seedling. With a seedling you're never sure of what you get. By grafting you know what you're getting in terms of characteristics. Want a late ripening variety that will hang on a tree that grows to a certain size with so much resistence to winter-kill, etc.? You just pick you variety and rootstock and graft them.

[maroon89]

Not to jump the thread, but I have a question related to crab apple trees. I recently saw a few trees on clearance at Menards. I didn't buy them because they were "flowering crab apples" I wasn't sure if they produced fruit and no one at the store had an answer. I realize they would work well for pollination, but do they produce fruit?

[Direwolfe]

Most flowering crabs have fruit but its the size of cherries. Wildlife will eat it but it stays on the tree so birds get it. Some of the crabs mentioned above have larger crabapples.

[RIVERAT]

This thread is a derivative spun off of a really excellent thread started by Bish called "Shrubs/Tree Pics"...it is at: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194897

In that thread I attempted to respond to a query by RiverRat concerning crabapples. I had earlier made an effort to learn a bit about crabs and thought that some of the links I had dug up might be useful to others. I promised I'd get to it....then huntin' season intervened. But, I got a little time tonight. Here's what I think I know:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/sc154/sc154_12.html

http://ohioline.osu.edu/sc152/sc152_4.html

http://ohioline.osu.edu/b874/b874_2.html

These Ohio State links publish lists of crabs with their attributes. It is geared towards ornamental crabs...but there is some information on larger fruited. If you dig into any crab research you'll quickly find there is a plethora of information on the web; however, the vast vast majority of it is focused on ornamentals. Obviously, that is what is most popular --and lucrative - for the huge landscape trade. Large fruited, or edible crabs, do not appear to have had a whole lot of academics looking at 'em.

Still, you can find useful info in some of these sources.

http://secrest.osu.edu/newsreleases/ediblecrabapples.asp

http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modzz/modzzc.html

The MSU list is really interesting. First, it is huge; second, it is Michigan specific. In the link you will need to scroll down to 'crabapples' and then click to the alphabetical list of cultivars.

I have yet to find a single source that details crab maturities...as in, when does the fruit drop? The website for Adams County Nurseries is excellent for common eating apples...in fact, it is a very user-friendly site for learning about domestic apples varieties and their disease resistance, rootstocks, blossom time, and fruit maturity. Nothing like it seems to exist for crabs though.

On my own place I have planted:
Zumi
Siberian
Professor Sprenger
Prairiefire
Indian Magic
Chesnut
Dolgo
Winter Wildlife
Centennial

All are too young to bear fruit and all but the Chestnut are thriving.

Other crabs I have on my list to researach and perhaps plant are:

Kern
Callaway
Whitney
Hysop
Everest
Transcendent
Ralph Shay
Columbia
Trailman

I'd also recommend the website for St.Lawrence Nursery (you can google it). They have a lot of different non-ornamental crabs. I have bought from them and have been pleased with the product and service. The website is informative.

.....................................

You can go back to Bish's thread and see other info on crabapple sources.



Fairfax,


Thankyou for your more than detailed response, You've cerainly done your homework, now I just have to do mine.:)