CVA Optima Muzzleloader

[fishinDon]

Thinking of buying a pair of muzzloaders for my father and me. I've been looking at the CVA's, especially the Optima...Obviously, the price is fairly attractive on these models for 2 guys looking to get started. I also like the break action, as opposed to the bolt or flip open models that I have seen. The break action looks easier to load and clean.

Any opinions one way or another on this gun? Intended use would be whiletail hunting, maxium shooting distance 100-150 yards tops...more likely though < 100 yards would be typical in the tight cover we usually hunt.

Thanks for any info,
Don

[muddslinger]

i just bought a cva wolf and my friend got the optima. both of us really like them both the price is really good, the quality is good, they shoot good, and i really like the design like you were saying about the break action it makes it alot easier

[wally-eye]

They are good guns for the money and I don't think you'd be disappointed in buying them. I have the CVA Kodiak Magnum 50cal. topped with a 3X9 and I just love that gun and glad I got it. I have a left handed 54 cal TC sidelock that I shot for years and thought I died and went to heaven when I got the CVA Magnum.........what a dream to shoot and clean......

You'd be happy with the Optima............

[thongg]

cva is a good entry gun also you might take a look at the H&R sidekick i think that is what it is called great entry gun 50 cal break open and 209 primers i bought 2 for my cousins boys and the use them instead of a shot gun very accurate

[BTC]

Thinking of buying a pair of muzzloaders for my father and me. I've been looking at the CVA's, especially the Optima...Obviously, the price is fairly attractive on these models for 2 guys looking to get started. I also like the break action, as opposed to the bolt or flip open models that I have seen. The break action looks easier to load and clean.

Any opinions one way or another on this gun? Intended use would be whiletail hunting, maxium shooting distance 100-150 yards tops...more likely though < 100 yards would be typical in the tight cover we usually hunt.

Thanks for any info,
Don

I purchased the 50 cal "CVA Optima Pro" a little over two years ago and I'm very happy with it so far. I chose the Pro model over the standard Optima because it has the longer 29" barrel which should have increased long range accuracy over the standard 26" barrel. This year I switched to the 250 grain Hornady SST Sabot with 150 grain of triple seven pellets and it shoots awesome. I just sighted it in about a month ago and at 100 yards it shooting very nice groups, and at 50 yards I'm only about 1" inch high.
It's shooting nice and flat up to 100 yards and I hope to get some range time in at 150 yards prior to November 15th.
For the money I don't think you could go wrong with the CVA Optima.:D

Brian

[ChasinSprints]

I don't think you would be disappointed with the CVA. I retired my ole Thompson Renegade a couple years ago and bought the Optima Pro. No more hang fires or misfires. It truely is a pleasure to shoot and a breeze to unload and clean.

[zstwins]

have a cva optima elite and i love very accurate!!

[jim sasser]

i have a winchester apex mag. very good gun,its killed more than its share of critters.i think u can get them now for around $200.00.i have a 3x9x40 redfeild on mine im good out to 175yd's or so with a 245 power belt and 100 grains of 777.not the most expensive gun but it will hold its own against more costly guns...good luck

[Itchin' to go]

I bought an Optima 2yrs ago and i'm real happy with it. I shoot 80-100yds and it is more than accurate enough.

With the break action it is very easy to clean.

Ryan

[glockman55]

CVA are making some good quality guns, The earlier ones were low end but they have cleaned up their act. Well worth the money.

[old graybeard]

I bought a Optima pro for the longer barrel mainly. I have taken a couple of deer with it shooting the power point bullets. The thing about knocks em off their feet. The gun has never given me any problems and it is very accurate I highly reccomend them to anyone.

[fishinDon]

Thanks everyone for all of the advice on the CVA's, sounds like I can't really go wrong with one for an entry level gun, which is exactly what I was hoping to hear!

Thanks again,
Don

[sullyxlh]

A good read FWIW


Dangerous Muzzleloaders By Randy Wakeman

In my opinion, far too many people have had their lives destroyed by reportedly using cheap imported muzzleloaders as directed by manufacturer's printed instructions. There are no muzzleloading standards, and there is no governing body on the American muzzleloading scene to effect any semblance of quality control or reasonable safety testing.

According to one attorney, his client is an ex-marine who has been trained for about 13 years on how to clean, load, and fire a muzzle loading rifle. The accident occurred 3 days after he received the rifle as a gift from his daughter. It was a new Traditions .50 caliber inline. The attorney believes he was using the gun as directed by the manufacturer on the date of the accident. The man has lost his right hand as a result of the explosion.

Another attorney's report details how a man purchased a new CVA .50 caliber inline, a package of .50 caliber / 50 grain Hodgdon brand Triple Seven propellant pellets, a package of Winchester brand W209 Primers and a CVA brand .50 caliber Complete Muzzleloading Accessory Outfit at a chain store, according to the receipt. A short while later, one primer was fired per the instructions and then, to sight in the muzzleloader, loaded 3 of the 50 grain pellets, a .50 caliber "PowerBelt" 295 grain hollow point bullet with plastic "sabot" snap-on base and a W209 primer.

He fired the muzzleloader and the barrel exploded. His wife was present at the scene of the accident. She transported him to the hospital ER. This man was in the emergency room within about two hours of his new purchase. Two surgeries have already been performed in an attempt to repair the damage to his hand as a result of the explosion. More are indicated.

In another incident, a different man, with approximately 20-25 years of experience hunting with muzzleloaders / black powder guns, was target shooting on a Saturday with a friend, using his CVA inline. The hospital reports that after being stabilized x-rays were taken which revealed a "large metallic FB with spring located at the angle of the mandible."In yet another CVA incident, a man with ten years of muzzleloading under his belt was sighting in a new scope on his CVA inline. His brother and nephew were present. After a catastrophic failure, his injuries reportedly consisted of a torn right nostril from the base of the nostril to just below the right eye socket. It took 40-45 stitches to close this wound. His nose and his right cheek bone were broken.

A concerned consumer recently wrote to Mark Hendricks, Technical Manager, Connecticut Valley Arms (CVA), 5988 Peachtree Corners East Norcross, GA 30071. The letter describes how a design defect nearly caused the death of this man's son-in-law. It reads, in part:

"My opinion as a graduate engineer is that CVA has a critical design defect, which should be corrected immediately, and should require a product recall. In addition to this problem, we discussed the rationale for specifying barrel strength, and I asked you what the strength of CVA muzzleloader barrels was. You would only tell me that the "minimum specification" was 700 kp/cm2. When I asked you what the maximum pressure spec was, you told me that no one knows, and that "ignorance is bliss". In other words, you could not tell me at what load pressure the barrel would burst. Is this the same attitude that I heard your customer service technician express when he said that the problem I reported had never occurred, therefore it was not possible?"

Jim Bruno, VP of Traditions Firearms, e-mailed me a while back, stating in part:

"Randy, Do you think that we would make a firearm that would not support charges that we advertise and market to the public of the United States of America? I know that you are evaluating and comparing muzzleloaders of different companies in the black powder industry and have done a pretty thorough job, but understand that every time you write or speak any negative comments about our industry you provide ammunition for the people who do not believe that the 2nd amendment exists."

Well, Jim, I'll answer you here and now. First of all, you are apparently unaware of what you are selling. You manufacture no muzzleloaders; you merely import them from a company in Spain. You have no known testing facilities of your own. You have been unable to show that your imported frontloaders are tested with the charges you recommend--charges that are not recommended by powder manufacturers.

It is a "red herring" argument to attempt to turn your lack of knowledge about your own product into a 2nd Amendment issue. The 2nd Amendment is not an entitlement for you to foist substandard product, built to unknown or non-existent standards, on the American consumer.

Terry L. Eby, BPI National Sales Manager / Retail, e-mails in part:

"Randy: I don't consider my language careless and I absolutely stand by my opinion that your position has no basis in fact--but much in conjecture and assumption. If your implication that we would knowingly put our customers at risk is not defamatory, I don't know what is."

Unfortuantely, Terry, the "basis in fact" will be presented to you in court, as your injured consumers have no other recourse. Your company, "BPI," is Spanish owned and operated and has no proper American testing facilities. Do you have any at all? The brands you peddle, CVA, Beartooth, and Winchester Muzzleloading still come from the very same factory that the sorely defective "CVA Apollo" came from, with the same steel, don't they?

This is the CVA Apollo gun that had so many personal injury claims filed against it that the "old CVA" was forced into receivership, is that not true? I have seen nothing to indicate that your sub-standard proofs and poor quality control is any better now than it was then.

If you don't believe the printed results from Lyman Ballistic Laboratories showing 25,000 PSI peak pressures in three pellet loads that you recommend in your manuals for use in your guns that bear a 10,000 PSI area House of Eibar definitive proof mark, you are welcome to take it up with them.

Hodgdon Powder Co. recommends that only two 50 grain equivalent Pyrodex or Triple Seven pellets MAXIMUM be used in .50 caliber inlines. You recommend three. By whose authority is this done? On what basis is this done?


The pity of all this is that proven safe, quality muzzleloaders have never been more plentiful, or more affordable. Knight Rifles, NEF / H & R, Thompson / Center Arms, and Austin & Halleck all currently offer exemplary inline muzzleloading rifles today that you won't be betting your life on.

The Savage 10ML-II is the best built frontloader of them all, using the Savage magnum centerfire barrel as a starting point. The affordable Knight Wolverine, proven for twenty years right now, is a shining example of how you can fly first class with a Green Mountain barrel for an economy ticket price.

The girl behind the counter at Wally World may be oblivious to all this, and apparently large retailers such as Bass Pro and Cabela's are as well. I've heard and seen enough of this nonsense to last me several lifetimes; I don't have the stomach for much more human blood.

Cheap, extruded barreled rifles should give anyone pause. Any propane tank for a gas grill is built to a better, uniform standard of testing for the application--at least your propane tank must pass hydro. And, this isn't just my opinion: you won't find muzzleloading legends like Doc White, Henry Ball, or Del Ramsey dissenting.

It is my considered opinion that muzzleloading rifles with soft, extruded barrels proofed to only 10,000 PSI are not fit to be used. I'd much rather dial in a Knight Wolverine than dial 911. Wouldn't anybody?

There is a huge, ever increasing body of evidence that shows CVA branded guns (BPI, CVA Winchester Muzzleloading, New Frontier, etc.) can be quite dangerous with factory recommended loads. Those that have their own personal injury issues can contact several sources for help. Here is one good one: Eaton & Sparks 1717 E. 15th Street Tulsa, OK 74104 Attn. Dean Wise Firearms use, in general, is a very safe sport, with firearms related injuries falling year after year. In fact, A new report from the National Safety Council shows that accidental firearm related fatalities remained at record lows in 2004. Statistics in the council’s “Injury Facts 2005-2006” show a 48 percent decrease over a 10-year period ending in 2004 (the latest year for which data is available). There are rare, very rare exceptions. CVA guns, deficient in design, materials, and quality control in my opinion, give the great sport of muzzleloading a bad name. To subsidize further injuries and fund the decay of the great American firearms manufacturers with your hard earned dollars by buying a dubious CVA gun is unnecessary and unconscionable.

[glockman55]

It can happen with any brand of ML, I shoot a T/C Encore and I don't take it for granted. I'm sure if a guy buys a $100. ML kit and packs 150 gr. of powder with a 300 gr bullet a fires away no matter what the manufacturer says. there might be trouble. How many guys when loading your ML forgot, Did I put powder in, or did I stuff a bullet in, and then load over top of that load? Not me but I've seen it done. They are dangerous and we can't forget that.

[sullyxlh]

It can happen with any brand of ML, I shoot a T/C Encore and I don't take it for granted. I'm sure if a guy buys a $100. ML kit and packs 150 gr. of powder with a 300 gr bullet a fires away no matter what the manufacturer says. there might be trouble. How many guys when loading your ML forgot, Did I put powder in, or did I stuff a bullet in, and then load over top of that load? Not me but I've seen it done. They are dangerous and we can't forget that.
+1 on that,
I think alot of the problem is people get a ML and the only thing they hear is three pellets by whatever grain bullet,black powder,pyrodex,777,are all different,The pressure that 150gr of BP creates is nowhere near what 150g of T7 is.
Alot of the older guns can't handle the charges of todays modern powders.

That load over load mistake has hurt alot of unsuspecting people.
Also to the new guys shootin,figure what powder/bullet combo you'll be using and after you seat the bullet and charge,mark you ramrod while it's in the barrel,this is an easy way to check it to see if loaded or not in the future

[vgawel]

muzzle loader. save your self the trouble. by a TC Encore now and use it for ever. It might be more exspensive now but they are sweet.