Dwelling space above pole barn

[Steve]

I'm wondering how many of you (if any) have experience building such a beast? I'm think of doing it with a Gambrel type second story roof. The only downside I see so far is doing a whole heck of a lot of drywall that I really don't want to do on the first floor due to code and firewalls between garage type areas and living areas.

[multibeard]

There are gambrel roof trusses available that when they are set give you the whole second story, floor and rafters.

Also you can get standard roof trusses that have a room area designed into them. By adding a few dormers they might be another alternative.

[ESOX]

The possibilities are endless. Just make sure you leave an air gap between the insulation and the bottom side of the roof deck to allow for ventilation. Install continuous soffit and ridge venting.
You will have to make some accomodation for bringing the plumbing up to the second floor through the pole barn without freezing.

[snowman11]

The possibilities are endless. Just make sure you leave an air gap between the insulation and the bottom side of the roof deck to allow for ventilation. Install continuous soffit and ridge venting.
You will have to make some accomodation for bringing the plumbing up to the second floor through the pole barn without freezing.

what he said

i lived in one of those garages for two years

it had inadequate ventilation and BOY DID IT GET HOT!

[Steve]

The possibilities are endless. Just make sure you leave an air gap between the insulation and the bottom side of the roof deck to allow for ventilation. Install continuous soffit and ridge venting.
You will have to make some accomodation for bringing the plumbing up to the second floor through the pole barn without freezing.

That is the one thing I haven't figured out yet Paul. A hydrant coming up through the slab comes to mind but I'm sure that's not code and you'd really be screwed if the valve at the bottom of the hydrant went bad.

I'm really interested in what kind of fire wall (drywall) would be required in the bottom level. Would I only have to do the ceiling of the pole barn part with drywall if I brought the drywall all the way to the pole barn steel or are they going to make me do the walls too?

[ESOX]

Any part of the walls or floor that is "inside" the polebarn itself will have to be treated with drywall. The old standard was something like one layer of 5/8" and one layer of 1/2" if I recall correctly. But the last time I dealt with something like that was in the 80's. I am sure the building dept. can help you there.
I wonder if it would work to run the plumbing up through a duct pipe, tee it at the bottom and run another duct back up. Then have a fan blow heated air down one duct from the living quarters, with the other duct acting as a return? That would be a heck of a lot cheaper to run than a heat tape.

[plugger]

I have been involved with a couple pole barn living quarters deals. I would urge you to consider a small cabin vs living quarters in a pole barn. Code wise and esp resale will be better with two buildings. What you forsee wanting now may well be different than your eventual use. In 20 or 30 yrs you might not want to climb stairs every time.

[Steve]

Plugger I hear ya, but I have to build both a pole barn and a cabin at the same time. Drywalling the walls and ceiling of a 30x40 foot pole barn might persuade me though. Esox you idea would work except I have no electricity out there except by generator so keeping a fan running would be difficult.

[snowman11]

Your cieling in the garage will need to be insulated as well.

Not sure on the walls though...I think it's mostly a factor of sealing off the living space.

You will have to have an entry and an exit as well I believe, so plan on a fire ladder or osmething.

[Steve]

I don't know. It's not my first idea of what I want to build but seeing as how the township is pushing me to build and I need a pole barn and a dwelling at the same time, it might be the most cost effective. An no you can't build just a pole barn, you have to have residence first!

[8nchuck]

Steve, why is the township pushing you to build? Besides to get the tax money $$$. LOL.

A buddy of mine built a pole barn and put the cabin in the rear/behind it . It worked out nice. I would on my land but I want a more "cabinny" look, if you know what I mean

[Steve]

I have items such as a travel trailer on the property which is a non-conforming use unless you have a residence on the property.

[The Nailer]

Steve,

If you have a submersible well pump you can turn the power off and drain the lines back into the well when you leave. If I remember right you take the cap off the stand pipe and there is a valve down about four feet you can you open to drain it down. Most well drillers can make you a tee handle wrench to reach the valve. Then the only thing you have to worry about are the traps if you don't leave the heat on and that's easliy remedied in the same way you probably are doing now with your trailer ( a little RV anti-freeze)

[Steve]

Nailer, can you PM me some details on your cabin, rough plans, materials, size and cost. I'm undecided which way to go on this thing..

[snowman11]

What sucks is that the traditional deer camp of yesteryear is no longer an option. Townships have put in all their stupid rules and now you have to have at least 700 square feet, indoor plumbing, all that crap...also known as "SEV"

[Steve]

What sucks is that the traditional deer camp of yesteryear is no longer an option. Townships have put in all their stupid rules and now you have to have at least 700 square feet, indoor plumbing, all that crap...also known as "SEV"

You got it buddy. My traditional deer camp is in the process of being eliminated.

[soggybtmboys]

Hey Steve, what about one of those prefabs? I have seen and been in a few, man they are pretty sharp and not too expensive either.

[Steve]

I don't think a prefab would make it back to where I am (even in the pieces they bring it in).

[8nchuck]

Is it where you airstream is in the photo's?. I'd say if you could get that back there you could get a prefab such as this back there.
www.panalconcepts.com (http://www.panelconcepts.com).

Made in Mio and all 4X8 panels. nice thing is the interior walls are done so that saves that expense. I have stopped many times and looked at these. They are nice!

[Steve]

Possible but I was hoping to avoid the maintenance of wood exterior. It also has to be 600 square feet minimum on first floor and most of these prefab cabins are not. I'm sure some of those pre-fab cabins are nice, they sure have a charm about them, but hunting type cabins have been basically zoned out of this township for some time.

[snowman11]

The gambrel style barn is a nice method. My father in law's garage is 30x30, that makes for a 20x30 loft, or 600 square feet of living space above it...with a plenty large enough garage below for say a small tractor, a beater 4x4 and plenty of room left over for firewood storage or whathaveyou.

Are they going to require electric service to be hooked up from "the grid".

[Steve]

Right now the gambrel style is what I'm working with. I'm sure I'll have to be fully up to electric code on the inside even though being off the grid the best lighting is by 12v or gas systems, refrigeration is done by propane and the same for heat.

[snowman11]

We had one of those ventless heaters in ours, heated the place up FAST. Only downside was the dry air, sucked all of the moisture out of the air. Next time I'm over there I'll look at the BTU output, but I believe it was right around 30k.

The only thing I'd be afraid of is temp in the summer, especially being off the grid. I'm not sure if we had inadequate for ventilation or what (spinny vents and cans)...but the upstairs could easily heat up well above ambient outdoor temperature. Well above...better off sleeping in the airstream above :)

[snowman11]

Remembered to check tonight.

It is 30kbtu/hr.

http://www.glowwarm.com/

[Steve]

Can't the heat up there be mitigated with some of the bubble foil insulation under the pole barn steel, followed by OSB sheathing then say R40 insulation on top and R30 in the walls of the second story? That Airstream really cooks in the summer sun but it has little insulation.

http://www.afs-foil.com/pages/hotbox.htm

[snowman11]

That stuff is fancy. Anybody got any real world experience with it?

[Bluesteel]

Check out this plan which I plan to build in Antrim county next spring. It is modified a bit from the stock plan. It will be 36x32.

http://www.coolhouseplans.com/details.html?pid=32670

[Steve]

That is similar to what I am planning on building. I've took bits and pieces from a bunch of different plans on the net and have came up with my own design. The roof and sides will be pole barn steel (little to no maintanence). Will have a couple of dormers plus windows on the gable ends.

[reelhappy]

Steve
I own Michigan Energy Savings and we do energy evaluations and upgrades to homes and now are getting some request for commercial and pole buildings.
We have used alot of the various types of reflective insulation for challenging heat loss problems and have had great success with it. DTE Energy invited me to do some energy efficiency seminars with them and they were very interested in the result we are getting. go to www.fifoil.com and look over the info there. I have worked with several and they have more credible Info than any other supplier. I switched to them not long ago. I now have the mich territory as a dist. We are doing our first pole barn (new)
in a couple weeks. The summer reduced heat gain in a building us very impressive. You have to be aware of the different types per application as to not create a moisture concern. I met with the Michigan Energy Dept. last week and I have gotten several calls as a result to look at what can be done on the heat loss and gain in summer on hard to fix homes. I will be updating my web site soon to post testimonials of several very happy customers.

If you have any questions let me know. www.michiganenergysavings.com

Sam

[ESOX]

If you go with a vaulted cieling, remember to leave an air gap between the roof panels and the cieling insulation. Install continuous soffit and ridge vent.
That will make your roof happier and help keep the place from becoming an oven. Also, make the roof pitch a minimum of 5/12, preferrably even 6/12. The steeper the roof the longer they last and the fewer problems you will encounter with ice damming, snow build up and water penetration. 4/12 pitches are nothing but a headache that lasts long after the sweetness of the truss cost savings has passed.