10% of walleye netted from inland lakes

[gamebird_guy]

The new agreement allows natives to trap net 10% of the walleye population each year from inland lakes, how many walleye will you catch in the future? Read for yourself on cadillacnews.com

[alex-v]

How about a direct link right to the article itself??

I want to see if it references which page in the agreement says 10% of the Walleye or if it is something the newspaper reporter just made up. When you think about it not all inland lakes have a reproducing population of Walleye.

[gamebird_guy]

http://www.cadillacnews.com/articles/2007/09/27/news/news02.txt

[Westlakedrive]

I think if they have some hatcheries and stock some fish everyone can benefit from this.

But.. I would have less of an issue if the inland lake deal were to not allow netting. Catch what you want on hook line and sinker. Seriously know how long you have to fish to catch 160 walleye on a hook vs with a net.
Likely a month vs a few days.

[waterfoul]

So, we pay taxes to support the DNR and the fish stocking program... As I understand it, the native americans don't pay nearly the taxes we do yet they get to NET fish we paid for?? Hardly seems right.

[shametamer]

i find it most interesting the...ESTIMATED POPULATIONS of WALLEYE.....where does the dnr have these numbers, how do they arrive at these numbers, can we access these numbers and would it change your fishing habits if you knew these numbers on your favorite lakes?....I know we all probably resent..SUPER PRIVILEGE..granted to the native americans, but i reckon they were none too happy we classified them as savages and took their land...hey paybacks a Bi***;)

[Marrble Eyes]

Wait until they whine to the Courts that they need to slaughter off the Elk Herd, because they can't survive on the money from the Federal Govenment and casino revenues.

Pillagers is what they are making themselves out to be. Their actions on lake Michigan around Manistee is nothing short of disgusting.

I shed no tears for the Tribes. They have taken advantage of our current ways, technologies and system, but play the "heritage" card in the courts to get "special" rights.

They shouldn't be allowed to harvest ANY fish under those rules IMHO unless it is with a spear and a birch bark canoe.

[alex-v]

i find it most interesting the...ESTIMATED POPULATIONS of WALLEYE.....where does the dnr have these numbers, how do they arrive at these numbers, can we access these numbers
My confusion at first was caused by "gamebird_guy's" comment "....to trap net 10% of the walleye population each year from inland lakes,...." which implies that the agreement was for all inland lakes. I have read several newspaper articles on this news story since it first appeared last week and have not come across anything that mentions all lakes. In the article that "gamebird_guy" provides a link to the reporter only mentions 2 lakes.

As to the DNR the article did not mention that the numbers were from the department. For all I can tell the reporter just made them up based on a decree the paper got. I would not put any stock or credibility in that article as it is one of the worst written ones I have come across on the agreement.

The DNR regularly publishes the estimated numbers of fish populations for any given lake or river that they have done studies on. These numbers are available from the department by looking through their website. But, even better yet, call the Fisheries Biologist for that specific area and talk it over with him or her. They can give you the population sizes and other details of the studies. Set up a 2-way conversation with the biologists and within a short time they will know you by name and will also contact you with interesting information.

[wally-eye]

Ugh, white man talk from both sides of his face...

[sigman]

What about the Salmon? They are allowed to take those along with steelhead. These fish were not native to the great lakes. It was the "evil white man" that introduced those. Do the indians pay for restocking? Lake trout were the only ones around a hundred or so years ago.

[shametamer]

My confusion at first was caused by "gamebird_guy's" comment "....to trap net 10% of the walleye population each year from inland lakes,...." which implies that the agreement was for all inland lakes. I have read several newspaper articles on this news story since it first appeared last week and have not come across anything that mentions all lakes. In the article that "gamebird_guy" provides a link to the reporter only mentions 2 lakes.

As to the DNR the article did not mention that the numbers were from the department. For all I can tell the reporter just made them up based on a decree the paper got. I would not put any stock or credibility in that article as it is one of the worst written ones I have come across on the agreement.

The DNR regularly publishes the estimated numbers of fish populations for any given lake or river that they have done studies on. These numbers are available from the department by looking through their website. But, even better yet, call the Fisheries Biologist for that specific area and talk it over with him or her. They can give you the population sizes and other details of the studies. Set up a 2-way conversation with the biologists and within a short time they will know you by name and will also contact you with interesting information.

i have numerous written reports on lakes, but i do not find population estimates on them..lots of figures on actual net, shock or survey results..lots of musing on present and future. I chat with the fisheries people every chance i get, but never dawned on me they have a 'guage', 'rule of thumb' or guess timate on how many actual fish of a particular species are in a lake..seemingly on lakes cadillac/mitchell the DNR says there are approximately 1.33 walleyes per surface acre...but it does give me fodder to quiz the nextDNR biologist on HOW they arrive at the number

[wally-eye]

Bill, you're scaring me............you make too much sense sometime's.....

[waterfoul]

I know we all probably resent..SUPER PRIVILEGE..granted to the native americans, but i reckon they were none too happy we classified them as savages and took their land...hey paybacks a Bi***;)

That was a LONG time ago... and the native Americans here in Michigan faired MUCH better than any tribe down south or out west. I just think that if they are going to take fish out of a stocked inland lake, they should have to pay for it just like the rest of us AMERICANS (they are Americans after all, right?).


They can go to any state college for FREE. Yet how many take this opportunity? Very few. Sure wish I could have gone to college for free.

[The Fishing Pollock]

Well up around here in TC we find nets all the time that are not marked and or a few inches under the surface. I found one that way by running it over and wrapping it into my prop and blowing out the seal. Now I approached the local tribe and asked them how they want to cover the cost of repair. I was told that it is not their problem and they would not pay for repairs to my motor. Unfourtinatly for them. That net I ran over ended up at the bottom of GT Bay. It was not properly marked and was left to sit just under the surface of the water. My personal experience has caused me to sink every net that I runn over . And God help them if they decree that they can net on my small lake due to the walleye populations. I can gaurentee that our lake association will help "cure" any nets on our lake. Now I'm sure most or some of you will not agree with this . But then again. How many of you have suffered a $1000.00 repair bill to your motors due to non or improperly marked tribal nets.

[shametamer]

That was a LONG time ago... and the native Americans here in Michigan faired MUCH better than any tribe down south or out west. I just think that if they are going to take fish out of a stocked inland lake, they should have to pay for it just like the rest of us AMERICANS (they are Americans after all, right?).


They can go to any state college for FREE. Yet how many take this opportunity? Very few. Sure wish I could have gone to college for free.

mike,i doubt i would attend college either if my pockets were lined with all that easy casino cash!:lol:reckon i see this issue as only one of many threats..pollution,low lake levels,pleasure craft,cormorants,invasive species etc......kinda like...geez which 'pimple' do i pop first!;) Should one or two of the larger threats win out, it will effectively render the native american one MOOT!

[gamebird_guy]

It does not include all inland lakes just those north of ludington, so I guess what some of you are saying is it's not in your backyard so you don't care. I t only mentions Cadillac and Mitchell because the article was a local paper talking about local lakes, but also included were Houghton, Higgins, Torch, Black, Crystal, Torch. Walleye isn't the only target species that was just an example, how about trout, smelt, inland whitefish. Some might say they were only talking about 300 or so walleye out of Cadillac each year, I won't catch that many out of there in my life!!!!!!!!!!

[msunolimit]

If Carey shares the same feelings as other tribal members, the deal should not worry too many people.


“I can see going out there and hunting and obeying the rules just like anybody else — just like everybody,” he said.

I think Mr. Carey brings up an interesting question...If they are hunting/fishing like 'everybody else', why in the hell do they need all these special privileges to begin with? Wouldn't it be pointless to have all these special regulations if the Native Americans were 'fishing just like everybody else'?

Also, in reference to Mike's post about the fact that many Native Americans don't attend college (and another member's response about the casino money), a few years back Curious Me asked a few different Native American employees at Soaring Eagle Casino, "What type of annual salary does the casino pay tribal members?"

All of them responded with very similar answers...The elders (Chief if you will, and other 'higher-ups' in their hierarchy) make the most (a few years ago, it was according to them, 80-90k a year for the elders). The trickle down effect plays a part in the payouts, and the people at the bottom of the totem pole (i.e. the people dealing cards to me) made on average around 40k a year...Keep in mind, this was a few years ago, and while I have no documentation, it came from the mouths of a few Native Americans....Pretty crazy to think about...

I could go on and on about Native Americans, casinos (Do some research on Soaring Eagle, and the violations they've been hit with for failing to pay out high enough percentages on slots). There's a difference between giving Native Americans a little something back (since we did pretty much take all of their lands), and allowing them to rape us... If they want special regulations, make them pay for the privileges...Just like you, I, and any other ethical law abiding sportsmen is required to do...

[theweasal]

The reply I posted yesterday has been deleted. I guess that freedom of speech thing doesn't apply here. Maybe is pissed off some bleeding heart indian supporter. God forbid you piss someone off nowdays. I'd hate to be non-politically correct!

[Final Cast]

My friend is an American Indian and the Soaring Eagle Casino pays him approx 90-100k a year. He is 24 years old and has never worked a day in his life. He wakes up around 11am-1pm everyday, then lifts weights, plays poker with friends then goes out on the town till early morning. He drives fully loaded Yukons etc. and has a nice house. This all started when he was around 18. Some life heh.

[Marrble Eyes]

My friend is an American Indian and the Soaring Eagle Casino pays him approx 90-100k a year. He is 24 years old and has never worked a day in his life. He wakes up around 11am-1pm everyday, then lifts weights, plays poker with friends then goes out on the town till early morning. He drives fully loaded Yukons etc. and has a nice house. This all started when he was around 18. Some life heh.

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Well hell, with all that free time and money on his hands we should give them free range on the Widelife in the state. What else does the poor fella have to do? Other than whine that White man has em down!

[Final Cast]

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Well hell, with all that free time and money on his hands we should give them free range on the Widelife in the state. What else does the poor fella have to do? Other than whine that White man has em down!

If you must know, he is currently at his fathers up north snagging salmon with my cousin. They want me to go with them every year but I told them not until they fish for the them leagally.

[tedshunter]

i find it most interesting the...ESTIMATED POPULATIONS of WALLEYE.....where does the dnr have these numbers, how do they arrive at these numbers, can we access these numbers and would it change your fishing habits if you knew these numbers on your favorite lakes?....I know we all probably resent..SUPER PRIVILEGE..granted to the native americans, but i reckon they were none too happy we classified them as savages and took their land...hey paybacks a Bi***;)


I second that,I am about 75% Indian but from the Cherokee tribe,so i don't even benefit from it at all. I still have to purchase tags just like everybody else.How do you think I feel:dizzy:

[esoxer]

Survival rate of stocked fish is about 2 to 3% of fry & up to about 5% of fingerlings. Can't remember exactly where i read this but i came accross it while researching on DNR website. Very few lakes in Mich. are naturally reproducing & those that are, are usually supplemented. Won't be many fish around if the inland netting starts. With the moratorium on stocking & all, better get 'em while you can.

[Big_P]

First off I gotta say I agree it's B.S. and second.....I've been wanting to do this for a long time but, every time the thread is already locked so,............
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4, 3, 2, 1.................:hide:.........:D

[Jimbos]

You guys are killing me with this, their getting something that I'm not attitude.....Life is too short to sweat everything. Just get out and fish, enjoy the outdoors, catch a fish or two, and quit worrying about who's getting what. As long as someone isn't telling me that I can't launch my boat, I could care less what they do.:rolleyes:

[mikey]

My friend is an American Indian and the Soaring Eagle Casino pays him approx 90-100k a year. He is 24 years old and has never worked a day in his life. He wakes up around 11am-1pm everyday, then lifts weights, plays poker with friends then goes out on the town till early morning. He drives fully loaded Yukons etc. and has a nice house. This all started when he was around 18. Some life heh.

How do I apply to become an Indian? I want a free handout too......:gaga:

[Westlakedrive]

Its interesting that in Wisconsin they are allowed to spear spawning walleye.
Then the sportsmen take is based on the spearing harvest.
Approximately 35,000-40000 walleye are speared. Around 600,000 harvested by sports fisherman.
One contention is that based on their surveys 1% of the fisherman are catching the majority of the walleye. Also of those fishing for walleye something to the effect of 2% catch one fish, 1.5% catch two fish and o.5% catch 5 fish. They also say that there is limited data to link catch rates populations data. More fish doesnt mean more catching. If the fish are full they wont eat. I contend if their are no fish they wont bite either.
The reality is the fish are so difficult to catch to begin with that regardless of the tribal take the overall impact on walleye fishing has been small.

[gamebird_guy]

when you get to your favorite weed bed or mud flats and they are covered with a half mile of net, blocking all sport fishing. This is what they do in Manistee, How about nets covering the middle grounds in Houghton Lake???????

[fishinmachine2]

when you get to your favorite weed bed or mud flats and they are covered with a half mile of net, blocking all sport fishing. This is what they do in Manistee, How about nets covering the middle grounds in Houghton Lake???????

EXACTLY!!! Wait until they put their nets in Higgins lake and all the power boaters are running them over or the jet skiers get into them!!

Scott

[Scoop-D-Bear]

How about we STOP GIVING HANDOUTS! The past is the past.....we didn't do it, we can't control it, so WHY ARE WE STILL PAYING FOR IT?!
Everybody is supposed to be created equal, let's start treating everyone as such.

[spikejbrook]

1ST THEY KILL ALL THE WEEDS , So i hope there is a season if they are allowed to net in the spring i know some spots were they will fill there nets up i hope its seasonal . I have noticed spring mostly when the fish school limits are not hard to come by i have seen huge schools at nite in the shallow sand with a spot lite but come summer there spread out and fishing is tuff for me any way. But it would be a slotter if they can net just after ice out.

[theweasal]

Hey... Don't give em any ideas. That'll be their next freedom to decimate the weed cover so they can extract fish quicker.

[Greenbush future]

If you visit a Michigan casino you are part of the problem.
I view the ones in Detroit as off limits too because I disagree with the owner of them too.
Just stop going it's that simple.
They cant survive w/o your $$

[Jimbos]

DNR to host meetings on agreement with Michigan tribes over treaty of 1836
The state Department of Natural Resources will host nine public meetings in October and November to discuss the recent agreement of hunting, fishing and gathering rights with five Michigan Indian tribes over the Treaty of 1836.

The area of Michigan impacted by the treaty is roughly the eastern half of the Upper Peninsula and the northwest one-third of the Lower Peninsula, DNR officials said in a news release.

At the meetings, DNR staff will discuss the agreement and its impact on natural resources in the treaty area. DNR staff also will highlight what methods and harvest limits for hunting and fishing are contained in the agreement for tribal members, as well as gathering activities on public lands within the treaty area. There also will be time for questions from the public.

The meeting dates are: 7-9 p.m. Oct. 25 at the Northland Sportsmen’s Club in Gaylord; and 7-9 p.m. Nov. 5 at the Elissa Rose Banquet Center in Saginaw.

More information is available online at www.michigan.gov/dnr.


Some of you feel so strongly about this, here's your chance to get up off of your a@@ and express your views. I bet not one of you will attend. It's much easier to just whine away into a computer screen:rolleyes::rolleyes::lol::lol:

[marakey]

Why would anyone attend these meetings? It's a done deal, they should have had the meetings prior to making the agreement!

[Flyfisher]

From the Detroit Free Press:

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071011/SPORTS10/710110405/1058

While I am not necessarily in favor of the federal government handing out what the residents of Michigan pay for I believe that some of us may be overreacting a bit.

The method of taking walleye would be limited to hook/line and spears. Nets will NOT be allowed on inland lakes.

If restricted to hook/line and spears, it probably would be difficult to even come close to taking 10% on an annual basis.

What I would be more up in arms about at this point is the discontinuation of walleye stocking due to VHS. This will probably affect the average angler's success much more than a few "Native-Americans" spearing a few walleye.

[STEELNEYES]

I agree with you marble eyes, if they want these rights then they should use their wooden spears, bone hooks, and birch canoes if they want to subsidize their food for their "family" only.

[withgrace]

Everything I have heard on the radio up here is that tribal members will be allowed to use nets. When I read the agreement is says the tribe can use trap nets on certain lakes. (I didnt download the whole thing to find out which lakes) By the way the map in the corner of the article is wrong. Lake #6 is Breevort lake not South Manastique.

[theeyes]

All the info on this is now on the DNR web site.

[bwh5294]

I have attended two meeting with the DNR. The copy of the decree, posted on the DNR web-site is very important reading. It will so how many walleyes, salmon, steelhead and coho can be harvest in lakes and streams in Michigan. Total number is 47,713 walleyes. Currently it is a honor system to report harvest--only one indian tribe has posted information about harvest numbers. Interesting point, over 400 licenes issued and less than 300 reported in their catch. The pan fish is also on this list and the only thing I could find is 100 pounds of fish a day per fisherman. They also have the right to send the fish out of state to tribes or business barting purposes. I have lots of information about this treaty that the DNR is not reporting.

It is a must read

Bryan

[bwh5294]

Gentlemen,

The meeting in Scottville had more of a turn out (35) than TC. It is important that this case is not closed. The Federal Judge has not made his decision.

Below are some questions that need to be asked, which the DNR dodged the questions.

How and when does a indian report his catch? (after the fact) (honor system)
What are the set limits (bag limits) per indian? (fish)
What stops an indian from catching fish in Michigan and giving to another tribe to sell? (like the Minnesota tribe)
How does a sovereign nation have the authority to enforce our laws on our people? The tribal police and game/fish will be in certain counties which will be enforcing our law on us. Does this give people from other sovereign nations outside the boarders of United States to become deputized and enforce laws on US Citizens?
Can we hunt tribal land for the purpose of gathering food? The answer is yes, but they will tell if the tribe post the land, you can not. It is a violation of law between the department of interior and indians.
DNR will state the indians have contribute to the stocking of fish and other DNR projects by buying Michigan hunting licenses. 6000 (indians) x $50.00 = $300,000. per year --Michigan sportsman 1,200,000. x $50.00 = $60,000,000.00 per year. The indian can take .005% of the game in Michigan. Indians will no longer be buying Michigan hunting and fishing licenses, which they will not have a investment.
They will talk about the 121 page decree on how boring it is to read and if need something to make you sleep. Speak up at this point:This the arrow head that has entered the body of Michigan sportsman and is very important for us read.
They do not to talk about numbers and percentages, but is where you will find the truth.

[Flyfisher]

Everything I have heard on the radio up here is that tribal members will be allowed to use nets. When I read the agreement is says the tribe can use trap nets on certain lakes. .
You are correct and I did not communicate well enough what I meant earlier in this thread. Gill nets will NOT be allowed so the people worried about nets being strung across the mouth of the Muskegon River need not worry. I am concerned, however, how this may affect the overall populations of gamefish in certain waters. I suppose the only way to "guess" is to look at other states that have similar treaties in effect now on similar waters.