Basement finishing

[buckslayerII]

Hi guys - am starting to gather info for finishing off half of the basement to create a family roon (20' x 30', very dry year-round, currently 8.5-9' floor to bottom of joists) this winter and have a few questions that maybe you could help out with:

1. My biggest "unknown" is the ceiling. Don't care for the look of "traditional" drop-ceilings, but like their practicality for access. I think I could relocate most water/electrical routing to the edges where maybe I could "build-in" access and then drywall the middle. Is it OK to put up drywall on a basement ceiling? Screw it right to the joists or isolate it for some reason? Pros and cons of each? Price of each?

2. Lighting?

3. Flooring - thinking the family would like the warmth of carpet/pad, but is it a bad idea to lay carpet on concrete below grade?

4. Walls - thinking mix of drywall and T&G pine. Anyone got any great ideas or schemes they'd like to share?

Thanks for any help.

[jpollman]

Technically if you finish any portion of a basement and turn it into "habitable space", you must have an egress window in order to meet code.

As far as the ceiling goes, I HATE DRYWALL for a basement ceiling! I've had it and couldn't stand it. It makes access a pain in the butt if you need to do anything. If done correctly a suspended ceiling can look very nice and is reasonably priced.

Lighting - (See above) ;)
If you have a suspended ceiling you can just install recessed fixtures. They are fairly inexpensive, look good, and to the job very well.

Flooring
I don't know what area you're in but at FairWay Carpet and Tile in Clawson they carry a product called "Comfort Base" which is a thermal pad that is installed on concrete to make carpet much more comfortable.

Walls
I like the idea of a combination of T&G pine and drywall. I'd do it with the T&G down on the bottom and maybe set out a little further than the upper portion of the wall. (maybe 3-1/2 to 4' up) Then you can make a "shelf" at the transition point. It looks good and you can set things on it for decoration. Then just finish the upper portion with drywall.

Good luck!

John

[jpollman]

Just another thought on the suspended ceiling issue.

What I've done in several basements is to do drywall on either side of the duct work leaving the area in between open. Then I installed ceiling grid and panels in between them. It looked and worked well and provided access to the ducts when needed. What you can do is just build a short section of 2x3 or 2x4 framing and attach it to the ceiling and hang it vertically on either side and apply drywall to it. Then I just box in the beams and steel posts.

John

[Burksee]

I've seen this in some business's and my BIL just finished they're basement this way, Painted all the joists, braces, duct work and wiring black. Lighting is all done with "cans" mounted flush at the bottom of the floor joists. Looks pretty sweet! With lighting and black paint it almost makes it look finished off! :)

[FISHMANMARK]

Buckslayer,
I finished my basement last winter.... I'll post some pics tomorrow. I did drywall ceiling, can lights, 3/4" T & G pine walls. (2 walls), sealed and painted cinder block the other 2 (contrast). Laminate flooring.
My buddy and I did a whole lot of drinking / thinking during the whole process, I think we came up with some good ideas as far as enclosing duct work, access panel for wiring / plumbing for the wet bar, etc. etc.
Maybe some of our ideas will work for you.

[Splitshot]

The most cost effective place to insulate is your basement wall as more btus per square foot are lost through poured concrete walls that through an uninsulated attic. At least down to the frost line.

The most economical way to insulate the basements is to use 2" Blue board in 4' x 8' sheets. Without using any glue, drill holes into the 3 inch wide furring strips placed over the outside of the blue board and at least one inch into the wall using a hammer drill. Then insert plastic sleeves into the walls and hammer the appropriate nails into the sleeves. Then drywall or any other wall board can be nailed over the Blue board into the furring strips. Besides insulating, the insulation impedes condensation and reduces complications related to mold and mildew because moisture in the air no longer comes in contact with the cool basement wall in the summer increasing the health of your home.

[buckslayerII]

Thanks so far.

jpollman - What you described in your second post is what I was thinking about doing. Putting all of the water pipes and electrical stuff at the walls and enclosing them in "access" cubbies. Only straight electrical runs would exist above the drywall and would terminate at ceiling fixtures or go completely across.

Burksee - I have seen this in some commercial buildings and never thought of doing it in a basement. Do you happen to have a picture? What did he do for a transition at the top of the wall/ceiling? Just end his drywall?

FISHMANMARK - I'd appreciate the pictures.

Splitshot - studs are already in place and 3 1/2" fiberglass insulation is hung. The previous owner did that much and the walls are ready for wood/drywall/whatever. He made a mess of running stuff across below the joists, though, because he probably intended on using a drop-ceiling. I want to clean that up and decide on my ceiling before I proceed.

For the record - I have hot-water baseboard heat, so there are no ducting issues.

That brings up another topic - suggestions for heating? Previous owner had a natural gas stove down there, but it takes up a bit of floor space.

If anyone has some pictures of what their drop-ceilings look like, that might be helpful for me to see if there's a style out there that I like but haven't seen before.

[Burksee]

Sorry, no pics available. The walls just end at the top of the poured walls. He did put up a trim board at the top and at the base. With the black paint and the lighting you hardly notice a transition point! BTW - Black paint is a satin finish. ;)

[FISHMANMARK]

Buckslayer,

I put 2 pics in my profile. I couldn't figure out how to upload them... and I really need to get back to work. I've got more if you would like (I can email them).
The first picture (with shamrock on the wall), shows how the painted wall, pine and drywall look together, the wall didn't show up that well. The T& G box on the ceiling contains the main duct work. The 1 X 12 pine is shimed out, it has coax cable and speaker wire run through it (also cloths line incase I need to run something else).

The second picture shows the bar and a better view of the ceiling. On the left wall (behind the picture) is one of the access panels for electrical and plumbing. I was lucky all of my plumbing was on the opposite side of the basement. When I plumbed it anywhere there is a joint (possible leak spot) there is an access panel.

Like I said, I have more pictures, flooring, booth I built where an old closet sat, lighting, staircase. I can send them if you would like.

If anyone want to post the pictures from my gallery, go ahead.
I hope these help.
Mark

[Splitshot]

MY only recommendation then is to use visqueen between the studs and the wall covering.

[boots741]

I just completed a pretty ambitious basement project about 6 months ago.
We used T & G pine for the ceiling by making a grid system, and making panels that make it a wooden drop ceiling. We then installed recessed lights in the ceiling. As soon as I figure out how to post some photos I will.

[eddiejohn4]

I personly prefer drywalled ceilings to a drop. access can be framed in for the areas you will need.I use a z channel, attach this to the joists and then the drywall to the zfur. this gives 7/8 clearance for any pipes running under the joists.

[buckslayerII]

Thanks again, guys, for the responses. I'd appreciate any more photos that you have time to post.

Are there any "issues" with putting the drywall right onto the floor joists if I either relocate or tuck things up into the joists? Can't see any reason that it would be different than the main floor of my house. What about sound insulation? Anyone do anything in regards to that?

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

another thing you can do is there is cieling grid designed for hanging drywall on, so if you did need to run anything you would have the room, doesnt sound liek an issue here. . only bad part about drywall cieling especially in a basement is ANY leaking or water damage to the above floor. . well there goes drywall in the basement and its a little harderand more expensive to replace than a couple cieling tiles. . if i remember tomorrow i will post some pics of our drop cieling for ya, its 2x2 panels, and they are hard panels, not the cheap fiberglass ones you can get. . it looks pretty dang good, well.. you can see for yourself if i remember tomorrow. . easy to access, and you dont lose a lot of room, you can put cieling grid within an inch of the joists if ya want. .

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

wow just realized i spelled ceiling wrong several times, ooops,

[buckslayerII]

outdoor_m_i_k_e - I figured out what you meant:) That drywall grid you mentioned - do you screw your drywall to it and then finish it? I guess if you could skip the finishing part (like maybe this edge cover strips in some manufactured homes), then it would be easier to replace a piece than if it was finished. But then, it might just look like a large drop ceiling.

I was planning on running all water lines to the edges and leaving access, but you did bring up a good point regarding water damage from above - hmmm, knock on wood, but what are the chances the dishwasher springs a major leak:lol:

[FISHMANMARK]

Buckslayer,
Emails sent. I hope, I didn't overload your system. I would appreciate your thoughts.

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

outdoor_m_i_k_e - I figured out what you meant:) That drywall grid you mentioned - do you screw your drywall to it and then finish it? I guess if you could skip the finishing part (like maybe this edge cover strips in some manufactured homes), then it would be easier to replace a piece than if it was finished. But then, it might just look like a large drop ceiling.

I was planning on running all water lines to the edges and leaving access, but you did bring up a good point regarding water damage from above - hmmm, knock on wood, but what are the chances the dishwasher springs a major leak:lol:
you COULD just not finish it and then if you needed to pull it down for any reason you could. . but it wouldnt look good fi you want to finish the basement. . drop cieling would look a lot better. . . . yes the drywall screws to the grid .. we use it a ton in commercial buildings, when the cieling is concrete and such and you cant just screw drywall the toe concrete. .

and yeah knock on wood, hopefully you NEVER have water leaking from above, BUT, theres no guarantee, and have you ever dealt with wet drywall?? a mess, plus if its a few years down the road, then you end up cutting out all the wet drywall, . . [putting in new. . . finishing it. . . and prolly painting the whole ceiling because it prolly wont match. . ill post some pics of our drop ceiling

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

the first pic is a distance pic, we cut an ironwood to replace the support post in the middle of the room instead of boxing it in or something as the main room is a living room all open. . this is the drop ceiling. .

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/539/001_1_4_1.JPG

next pic is just a different view

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/539/002_1_1.JPG

and the last pic is a close up of the tiles we have . . they are hard tiles, not soft fiberglass, and they are textured as you can see which gives it a better look than smooth tiles or something. .

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/539/004_1_1.JPG

[buckslayerII]

Thanks for those pics. The ironwood is a neat idea! Did you still utilize a subby jacking screw or cut it "just right?"

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

its got the screw, its kinda cool, something you dont see every day

even with the drop cieling though, you can make steps in your ceiling, if the last foot before a wall you want to drop the ceiling a foot and box it in so you have pipes or whatever, you can still do that with a drop ceiling liek this and it will still look good. . possibilities are endless!

[buckslayerII]

What's an average drop ceiling cost to install per square foot?

Anybody ever use those 4'x8' sheets of simulation T&G on a ceiling?

[boots741]

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/boots741/Picture006.jpg

This is how me did my ceiling

[boots741]

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc279/boots741/Picture007.jpg
the other side...

[target-panic]

Nice pad Boots !!!!! You just gave me the inspiration to get back to my basement project......Well, maybe after deer hunting a bit ;).

I just finished with the stud walls.......and a floor system made by a company called Platon out of Canada. Supposed to keep basement floors warmer & drier. Was not too bad to install either.

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

yea that actually looks pretty good, and im not a big fan of walls AND cieling T&G. . but i guess a bigger more open room makes a difference compared to a bedroom or something. .

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

depends on what type of pads you get to drop in and the type of grid you use, most of the ones ive done, i usually do it hourly because i can bust out some grid pretty quick! (the side jobs ive done, believe it or not it ended up cheaper hourly than sq ft). . plus hundreds of them drywall grid and regular grid in commercial buildings(banks, hotels, pharmacys, condos, restaurants). . a LOT of newer buildings in traverse city have my work in them:D

[buckslayerII]

Very nice boots...........thanks for sharing.

[sweatyspartan]

How did you guys get the stantion posts to look like that (covered in wood)? I think that looks awesome. The only project I've been involved with we just sprayed the ceiling dark gray and also bricked around the stantion posts.

Thanks!

[boots741]

How did you guys get the stantion posts to look like that (covered in wood)? I think that looks awesome. The only project I've been involved with we just sprayed the ceiling dark gray and also bricked around the stantion posts.

Thanks!

We actually bought them that way, they came in two pieces, put biscuits in, glued them together. Bought all the wood from the Woodworkers Shoppe in Cummings, or Fairview ?

[DeerManager]

WOW! I'm getting ideas to finish my basement as well (i just bought my first home a week ago!) and that is EXACTLY what i want for my basement! Very nice work. Jay

[Burksee]

We actually bought them that way, they came in two pieces, put biscuits in, glued them together. Bought all the wood from the Woodworkers Shoppe in Cummings, or Fairview ?Another vote for WWS! We did out cabin in T&G, rough sawn cedar. All came from the Woodworkers shop in Cummins! Those guys are very accomidating!

[PoleHolder]

I attached the drywall directly to the floor joists in my basement and it has worked out quite well. I was fortunate in respect to plumbing and ductwork being layed out well and planned my finish project accordingly. My mechanical area is not finished and is used for storage, freezer, etc. The area under my master bath was framed and planned to be used as a basement bath if desired, we use it as storage now. The sewer cleanout access should also be considered. My main ductwork runs down the center of the basement, so I built a wall enclosing the posts and made it wider to accommadate ducts to the floor for heating the basement. I had acquired a nice batch of sawmilled cherry wood and spent a bit of time at the planer and table saw with it. Instead of taping and mudding the drywall, I have 3/4" x 4 to 8" planks covering the joints, baseboard, moldings, etc. I saved a lot of time and mess with the drywall as I only had to mud the screws, prime and paint. I however, have a ton of hours into the trimwork. It looks pretty good though, and is still a rustic look, but the drywall allowed the use of an off white paint that helps light the areas. I insulated the walls with fiberglass, kraft faced batts that I got a deal on I couldnt refuse (5 bucks a bundle). As for the floor, I ended up carpeting as an easy way out to finish enough to please the wife. I got a tip to check your floor for moisture, duct tape a 2x2' piece of aluminum foil to the floor in several areas. Leave it down for a day or 2 and then pull it up and see if you have any condesation on the foil. Mine was bone dry , even so I specified a plastic encapsulated padding under the carpet. A good quality padding with a built in vapor barrier is the way to go if you go with carpet. Good luck on your project.

[buckslayerII]

Thanks Poleholder - would you happen to have any pictures of your finished ceiling with the wood strips? That sounds like it leaves access (if needed) not too big of a job. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but won't drywall be about 1/10th the cost of a drop ceiling?

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

if you finish all of the drywall, including all of the joints, then its actually going to be reallly close on price, depending on who you are having do the work. . if you get someone in there that knows how to throw up a drop ceiling, then your whole basement can be done in a day easily!! probably not even a whole day. . but drywall you are looking at the cost of hanging, and finishing the drywall, then sanding and coating again. . if you are paying someone else to do the work then you could even end up cheaper on the drop ceiling. . liek i said depends how proficient the person is doing it. . drywall will cost more for labor than materials. . drop ceiling is the opposite. . this is as i said based on drywall completely finished joints and all. . not painting. assuming you will be doing that. . still then it will cost you money for paint and you have to wait for it all to dry(you may not be in a hurry then its fine). . there are a few factors, but most of the time price is pretty close for a finished product. . even if you dont do the joints, and do the wood route then you will have money in the lumber plus time planing and finishing it. . it goes both ways. . im a fan of t&g and grid for ceilings. . i dont liek drywall mostly because of the access reason and water reason. . even if you have the lumber, you will still have the screws that are finished to get past. . granted you wanna hope you NEVER have to deal with this situation or have to tear anything down, but liek our basement i posted the pics of. . we decided later we wanted to run a new phone line. . drilled a hole upstairs. . popped a few panels and ran the line. .

[outdoor_m_i_k_e]

oh forgot to mention. . the t&g looks awesome , i love it a lot better than drywall, but just my opinion, once you do the walls, the ceiling is too much to add to it. . i did my buddies new house a few rooms and just personally. . i almost think its too much to do all the walls and ceilings! thats just me though!not saying it looks bad, but i like to have something to break it up a little bit

[Madduck98]

Your floor covering choice depends on a couple of things, first i assume since your finishing you basement that is is a dry basement. You can have a moisture test done to determine how much moisture the crete is holding.
Hard surface floors need a dry substrate in order to insure a good bond.
Carpet on the other hand can deal with a little bit of moisture , almost all carpet has a synthetic back and face. Carpet over pad is a good choice if this is going to be a lived in area. The pad also gives a bit of warmth to the floor.You can also get pad with a plastic coating on it to help moisture from wicking out of the crete into the carpet. And can be removed pretty easy if it does get wet.
Glue down carpet has the advantage of being able to extract water easily if you do have a leak or flood, but gives the feel of a commerical area. Plus once its glued down it's there for a long while.
I've spent many hours trying to tear out glue down basements that have only been down a few years... not fun or cheap.

[umas911]

for your ceiling think about garden lattice my brother used it in his basement it was a pain to stain but it turned out nice and he is still able to access everything by just removing the screws if he had to. I will see if i can find qa pic of it and post it.

[umas911]

ok here is a pic of the lattice in his basement it doesnt show much of it but you get the idea

http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20071006&Category=LIFESTYLE01&ArtNo=710060391&Ref=V8&Profile=1038

[PoleHolder]

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/539/medium/basement.jpg

[buckslayerII]

Thanks for those pictures umas911 and PoleHolder. Both creative ideas!

[buckslayerII]

Hey guys - this project is coming along very well, although never quick enough. We went with drywall on the ceiling and down to a T&G pine wainscoat. One entire wall is T&G pine. The pine has a clear finish, leaving it the natural (blonde) color. I'm looking for suggestions on colors that anybody has used that work well with the natural pine. My wife is a color person, so white or off-white isn't gonna cut it.

Second question - what are some ideas on how to attach the railing newel (spelling?) post to the concrete floor?

Thanks