Fred Trost at it again.

Well Fred is bad mouthing the DNR Officers for doing their job of checking hunters and licenses on both public and private land. He stated that it is illegal for them to trepass on private ground without a warrant to do so,unless they know a violation has been committed. I feel that alot of hunters will violate on private property if they know DNR officers can't come on the property without a warrant. Boehr say it isn't so.

[Eastern Yooper]

Oh-Brother......

Yeah.... you're right, Old Hunter. Those of us with private property are just itching to start violating on a rampant level.

Puh-leeeeeeeze!!!!!!

While I have no use for 'The Practical Idiot', I do feel there is merit in his latest endeavor. As Free Press outdoor writer Eric Sharp said, "At least it will put an end to this controversy once and for all."

I suspect private landowners will ultimately prevail.

And I think it is sad that Trost can't spend his time and energy in a more positive way. He gives hunters/fishers a bad image. Why can't he simply do a show dedicated to hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits?

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VEGETARIAN: Indian word meaning 'Bad Hunter'

[Tom222]

I own a small piece of property. I obey the rules, and enjoy the time that I can take to hunt. I have to admit, I would be upset if The DNR came walking in without a good reason. I realize that we need law inforcers, but I also feel that someone should show just cause for coming onto my land.
We already let the govt. have too much control over our lives.
Trust me when I say that I am no fan of Fred Trost, but I have to side with him on this one.

[Pat Eddinger]

Ya know,
I have a pretty fair sized chunk of real estate and I spend quite a bit of time running F.I.P.'s and trash off it this time of year.If the local C.O. took a drive by and nailed a few of the idiots I would be happy.Then again I really don't wish to have anyone on my place walkking around without my permission.It's a "King George" thing I guess.There is no way for a C.O. to do his job without access here in the S.W. lower where most of the land is private,and right now things are so far out of hand with all the hillbilly trash violating like crazy that a change in access law would just give them free Lisc.I see the point,but can't see the cure being better than what we have now.
God I hate it when I can't pick a side!Cheers!Pat

[boehr]

I don't want CO's disturbing an honest hunter either. I believe the honest hunter wants CO's to patrol as they have done in the last century. There may be a few times that a CO's does disrupt a hunter without any intention to do so but I believe this is not intentional to the honest hunter and the sports men and women back the CO's to catch the poachers.

[marty]

It should be intersting to say the least. I personally think the majority of private land owners are straight up hunters but you're always going to have some that break the rules no matter what. I know if I were legally hunting and a CO came over to check me on my property I would not be a happy camper.

Gee if it does go in favor of land owners is it too late to get a twenty ton sugar beet order in???? He he he he just kiddin folks
.....marty

[WEEZER]

I was going to comment on the Fred Trost show!!! I thought everything that attorney said was BS! I don't think it is a major problem with landowners and such and people aren't dropping out of the sport because of CO's.
NOW THE BEST PART OF THE SHOW!
The funniest thing about his hunting special was when they zoomed in on the woodpecker. then they heard the honking...."And what is this sound?? Well it's the sound of geese! Not canada gesse but snow geese or blue geese." DUDE THOSE WERE SWANS!!!LOL.... At least they sounded like swans(Maybe the camera decieved me??????)

[338bar]

I don't know why this guy had to change. When he first started on PBS, he had a great show and everybody was behind him. His show helped raise large sums of money for PBS and a lot of us looked forward to tuning in each week. Lately, this guy hasn't done one thing positive for the sportpeople of Michigan. He can't keep his mouth shut, and when he isn't complaining about something, he rarely covers any new material or anything relevant to the current season (if I have to see the show where he gets bitten by the hellgrammite one more time, I am going to shoot my TV). Recycling old material and spouting off against the DNR does not make for a show I look forward to each week. If this is some type of weak attempt to get sportspeople to back him in some personal quest he has, well I just do buy it. I sincerely hope that PBS dumps his show, and soon. While we are at it, why not dump (no pun intended) the Rob (I have the) Trott(S) show, whatever it is called. Sorry, that was childish, but every week they seem to be hunting everywhere but Michigan or running repeats, another useless show. And yes, I know this because I tune into both these shows most weeks just to check out what the storyline for the night is going to be, usually just before changing the channel to another rerun of some sitcom. The only show we have left is Michigan Out of Doors, usually new, refreshing, and relevant. Just my opinion and I will step down from my soapbox now.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

WEEZER,
You were right--They were swans! I see some every time I go hunting at Harsen's and St. Johns Marsh. I had to giggle when he said that, then I realized that some idiot is going to shoot one because "Fred said they are snow geese"! You would think that he, being a lawyer, would strive for accuracy in his show; guess he falls in the same catagory as channel 2,4,7, 50, &62 news station--ratings and sensationalism first, accuracy-well, whatever!

[Arrow]

I have to agree mostly with Fred, he did say that a CO does have the right to go on private property IF they have a legitimate reason to do so. They SHOULD NOT be bothering hunters for a license check right at prime time. The CO's know where these people have parked their vehicles, etc. they can check them when they've finished the hunt. Don't get me wrong........I absolutley support our DNR and know there are a lot of yahoo's out there...but, let's use some common sense.....

[JAM]

DNR officers have checked us every year but this one. This year we got 19" of snow! Our camp is located 2 miles down an abandoned RR grade that runs through the property. The DNR adopted the grade as an easement, therefore they maintain it. After shooting time, they'd be waiting where a 4-wheeler trail x'd the road and ask for license and driver's license, etc. They've also come right into the camp yard and asked how our season was going. We had nothing to hide and I wasn't offended at all. That's their job!

Jill

[stevebrandle]

I think the CO's have plenty to do this time of year without randomly hiking into private property looking for hunters to check. The few I've spoken to have a full time job following up on all of the reports that come in. Unless the DNR hires a lot more CO's, I'd be surprised to have one check me on private property.

Eastern Yooper, I have private property also but I buy all my licenses before hunting. I do know that some private land owners DO NOT purchase theirs until they kill a deer, I believe the DNR officers should check for licenses on private property periodically. This is not harassing the hunter, just doing his or her job.

[boehr]

I have a question...how many of you have been checked on private property by a CO where you felt you were wronged?

Now Fred is talking private property and let's stick with that subject. Also, by wronged I mean that, you felt the CO screwed up your hunting, shouldn't have been there, the CO never told you why he was there etc., just random check on PRIVATE LAND!

I believe from the posts that we are concerned with bow deer and firearm deer, let's even include bear and turkey, I don't know off the top of me head what other type of hunting there would be that there's a specific prime time.

Let's here the answers!

[This message has been edited by boehr (edited 11-25-2000).]

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Boehr,
What about waterfowl (duck and goose) hunting? First & last hour/ hour and a half of the day seems to see the most flights, and most consider that prime time. For the record, I have never been checked on private land (I have hunted very little of it) and on public land while duck hunting (St. John's marsh, anchor bay, muskamoot bay, ect) I have been checked, but never before 10:30 or after 2pm. The CO's in that area seem to know that the first and last hours are prime time.

[Hope]

I agree with what Fred is saying. I have private property - and if the DNR come on my land while I am hunting and scare the deer away - I will be pissed. The government is getting too involved if you ask me!

[Hope]

By the way, if I have a problem with someone on my land without permission - I just call the police. I can call them if I need them. They can check my licence after I come out of the woods!

[Pat Eddinger]

Hope,
I don't think anyone really wants anybody from a govt. agency nosing around on private property uninvited,but there is a bigger issue at stake,and that is controll of some of the idiots that continue to violate the most basic rules.We have a catch-22 that relies solely upon a C.O.'s respect for private land untill a known or strongly suspected violation is occuring.The issue is "what is known or strongly suspected" and when does it become an unwarranted interuption of lawful hunting.
I have neighbors that annually take more deer than tags,on their own private property
and then cut them up quickly.How would this be stopped if the individuals had to be presented with a warrant before observing them?You and I don't(I am assuming you don't!)practice such deeds and would rightly be indignant about a C.O.'s visit.But where and when would it be OK?Or should we just let the dirtbags continue to whack away with impunity?No flames bud,just trying to present the dillemma on both sides.Cheers!Pat

[WEEZER]

I might be the most checked person on this site! I have been checked in my blind, on the way to me blind, on my way out of the blind, in my car just passing by a hunting area. Hell i'm surprised that I haven't been checked in my driveway!
This year I was checked at 9:00ish on opening day in my treestand, I was checked a half hour before light on the archery opener a few years back and I can't remember how many times I have had CO's walk through my blocks to check me while Waterfowl hunting! All state land of course. Belive me as much as I'm stopped by CO's I double check everything several times before going out!!!I write the shooting hours on my hand, double check my plug and pockets for license and lead shells!

[Dutchman]

Weezer you must look guilty or the CO is attracted to you! :eek:

In some states they can pull you over if they THINK your a hunter and detain you and question you ? Thats not right. That happened to us in Montana in 1997

Boehr, we with checked on private property in 1999 season. The officers parked on the road and walked across a open field as we were getting ready for a drive. The officers were very polite and just ask to see our licenses and how we were doing,when leaving thanked us and said good luck, nothing wrong with that. I believe most officers are polite and those who have a problem with being checked must not want officers doing their job, not all can be perfect. I called in a complaint and it was taken care of ASP, ticket issued.

[Hope]

Pat, I can see your point... I am just so happy that my husband is a police officer and he knows the DNR well.... they do not bother us. :) I would be really upset though, if they did interupt my hunting. They can ask me for my licence before I go into the woods, or as I come out. But, going up to a treestand etc... is a little much. They can wait until the person is done... and if they do not have a licence, or if they are doing something illegal - take 'em to jail. :D

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The most wild, crazy, shootin' gal in Mid-Michigan! :)

[Kevin]

On sort of a light note: it cracks me up that whenever Fred's name appears in a post, it is consistently tagged with a flaming folder icon within a few days, sometimes a few hours. You see a post and check back later knowing folks will be jumping in.
I am surprised his advertising hasn't risen over the apparent "shock-jock" effect he seems to have on a lot of people.

By the way, this is in no way intended to make light of the serious issues discussed within this post.

Anyway, happy fields and streams!
-Amos

[Banditto]

Not a jab at the DNR (Boehr) but I heard about random stop and search at road block in 452? Any truth to this?

The thing I heard was from somebody who lives in 452. They road blocked a major inlet into state land near Posen and stopped and searched every car coming out after dark. Anybody in the vehicle was checked for license and the trucks were searched.

[boehr]

Law Enforcement Division would NOT support random road blocks to check hunters. If you know someone that was stopped like this I would strongly recommend that the District Supervisor for the District it happened in be contacted. If it was in 452 it would be eith the District in Roscommon or Gaylord.

Are you sure this did not have to do with the assault of a conservation officer and the search for the suspect on Nov 15th?

[Neapolis]

To answere your question Boehr, I have never been checked by a CO while hunting on private land. The few times I have been checked while hunting on State, the CO was calm, collected and polite. The overwhelming time I have spent hunting has been in Ohio, but I have also hunted Micigan, Montana and Wyoming. I have been checked many more times while fishing, but no complaints there either.


------------------
Neapolis
---------

[Eastern Yooper]

To answer boehr's question: I've never been checked on private land.

I've been hunting and fishing for 20 years in Michigan, and I've been checked probably 30 times...... mostly while fishing, but a fair amount of times while hunting.

I can honestly say that I've never had an unpleasant experience with C/O's while afield. Not once.

I always hear these horror stories like, "One time I knew this one guy who...." and then fill in the blank with some negative run-in somebody had with C/O's. I'm sure it happens; it just hasn't happened to me.

And while I feel there is merit in Fred's latest endeavor, I feel this is being blown out of proportion and taken out of context. I highly doubt C/O's have the time - especially this time of year - to randomly stop on everybody's 40 "just to look around." And I could be wrong: Maybe this does happen; it just hasn't happened to me. If it did, tho, I wouldn't be happy.

------------------


VEGETARIAN: Indian word meaning 'Bad Hunter'

[marty]

I yak with a gal that said the DNR were stopping people with deer in 452 to check them for TB but they were on a main road which was the only way out. I'll post more later about it.

Yes Boehr I've been checked by Co's on private land before.....marty

[Banditto]

Boehr, I am contacting my friend today to see what exactly happened. It was his brother that was stopped at a random road block.

[boehr]

I don't want to get into a lengthy discussion here but I do want to try to give you some insight. So I have the following, sorry it's so long.Many of you have commented on this post that CO’s should not interfere with the person who is hunting legally, come in and check a hunter during prime time. Some comments have been that if the CO wants to check your license he/she could wait by your vehicle and check you license went you came out to your car. Because hunters like us on this site are what I believe to be honest hunters who do not violate, I can understand and agree with you. In fact, all of Law Enforcement Division Conservation Officers would agree with you and it is Law Enforcement Division’s intent not to disrupt the law abiding hunter at any time. Because we are honest law abiding hunters we sometimes don’t realize what the dishonest person does or attempts to get away with. I am not saying that these are the only answers but just giving you something to think about in an attempt to realize the other side of the issue.

If you all remember, about a year or so ago, Fred Trost was pushing to bring back the back tag. If this would be a good idea or bad idea, I’m not judging that but, Michigan did have back tags years ago and I will openly admit that at that time the chances, although not impossible, was a long shot at being able to find out who had been issued that license. Now, we do have a much better system telling us who a license number has been issued to, not 100% accurate but many, many times better. The first thing you may ask is why it is not 100% accurate? That’s an easy answer, how many times while writing a post have you punched a wrong key? After purchasing your license, how many of you have looked at the number to ensure the correct number has been put on you license, making sure it is the same number as your driver’s license? There are times when that license agent reads your driver’s license wrong or, accidentally punches in the wrong number. Accurate most of the time but it does happen, that’s a fact. Many of you have been hunting for years, back when you were required to wear those unreliable back tags. Have you ever lost your back tag? I know when we did have back tags, I for one use to keep my license right in the back tag as many of you probably did too. I had lost my back tag back during those years twice, once, I back tracked and found it, once I had to go and obtain a duplicate license because I couldn’t find it. Back tags might be easier for a CO to see hunters out in the field and take a look through binoculars and see a back tag and believe that person is license and not have to bother them but it you stop and think about it, it’s not full proof and a poacher will find a way around that without the CO actually looking at the license.

Now as far as waiting for you at the car. Again, I want to emphasis that CO’s DO NOT want to disturb the hunt of an honest person and I also believe that the honest hunter should not have to put up with a dishonest person, a poacher, getting away with hunting without a license, shooting a deer without a license or any type of poaching at all. Stop and think for a minute if you were a poacher, a person who did not want to purchase a license to hunt. Would you walk out to your car with your bow or gun? Or would you purposely walk out to the road a hundred yards or so down from your car to make sure the coast was clear? All of you being honest would not but, the poacher does. If they come out without their gun or their bow, do they need a hunting license? Of course not. So how does the CO determine that they are hunting without a license? I would like to hear some ideas here under these circumstances. We write way too many tickets to people for not buying a hunting or fishing license. The first week of deer season one of my officers in Berrien County caught a deer hunter hunting without a license and his comment was that he never had bought a deer license in many many years although he hunted every year. I don’t know about you but I think that’s outrageous. Just a little off track, with all the deer licenses a hunter can buy now I can not understand why a person would ever have in possession an untagged deer, but we write way to many of those tickets too, and most of those hunters have a kill tag that they could have used. It’s unfortunate that we do write as many tickets as we do. Some people are cheaters and they will keep cheating until they are caught and some will continue cheating over and over and over. I would encourage you to read the weekly reports on the DNR Web Page and see what some of these poachers do.

If catching the dishonest hunter was as easy as catching speeders driving down the road, CO’s would write a lot more tickets. Do you realize that the average number of tickets that is wrote over the course of a whole year is somewhere around 140 tickets per officer. Remember, that’s about an average, some write more some write less.

Just a note from two of my officers here in District 12 from the sergeant’s weekly report to me, CO Justin Vanderlinde and Sgt. Gary Raak checked a subject deer hunting on private land that was hunting without a license. After receiving his ticket the 57-year-old stated he had been hunting his whole life and has yet to ever buy a license.

[stelmon]

Thats sad....2bad there wasnt away that u could but a all u could kill license with your land so maybe we would have this problem

------------------
Stelmon, the only one.
Keep those bullets flying and reels screamen

[Coldwater Charters]

First of all, We are innocent till proven guilty. What does that mean? That means if I'm hunting on private land leave me alone till I walk to my truck to leave or the c/o sees me violate or attempt to violate. I was hunting ducks in a private field during ducks season. I had couple dozen goose decoys out with several dozen duck decoys. Goose season was closed at the time. If you hunt ducks you know that ducks are attracted to Geese in a corn field. Well anyway the c/o came back and checked me while a flock of about 40 ducks circled us. If he would have waited to see if I would shoot any geese it would have saved me the hassle of setting up for nothing. I think they just want to save time and not wait to do there detective work. Anyone that thinks it's all right for a C/O to go on private property is living in the wrong country. The majority of the hunting public does not violate and we as sportsman should know this more then anyone. I'm tired of reading about slob hunters, violaters, Trespassers and those guys would shoot anything that moves. I've hunted a lot of opening days of deer firearms season. I always hear a ton of shots. I just figure some people are better shots and decision makers then others. And for those of you who think you're always right and your way is the only way. Have your son come over to the lake and carry me to my blind across the water I'm tired of launching my boat.

[Banditto]

Coldwater has summed up my feelings. I don't get much time to hunt now (with the baby). If I get 3 days to hunt, and 1 of them is disrupted by ANYTHING that is 33% of my free time that I look forward to all year.

Why should a CO not have to follow the same laws that dictate an officer of the law needs a warrant to enter a property?

Another point is in a lot of other states the mentality is shoot first ask questions later (Texas is a prime example, let alone the south).

[Eastern Yooper]

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!

[boehr]

Originally posted by Banditto:
Why should a CO not have to follow the same laws that dictate an officer of the law needs a warrant to enter a property?


They do follow the same laws! Please explain what law you are talking about that they don't follow. I am on the honest hunters side.

I would still like you to answer my above post though.



[This message has been edited by boehr (edited 11-27-2000).]

[Banditto]

To Boehr and anybody else that is following my previous responses to this thread. Here is the response I got from my friend Bob whose brother was stopped at a random road block in 452. I will just cut-and-paste and indent his email--(his wife Lori is a Negaunee city police officer so that is how her name got pulled into this). Begin quote.

"My brother was pulled over in the woods on state land in Presque Isle County. It was on the trail through the woods. The area is a three or four thousand acre state land park. He was leaving the woods and was forced to stop when he found a DNR truck blocking the exit; not sure exactly where or how close he was to the main road. Lori asked a guy at work who use to work for the DNR, and said that hunting season was reason enough for probable cause.

Fred Trost was up in Alpena with a bunch of lawyers, and has started a legal defense fund against the DNR. Go to www.fredtrost.com (http://www.fredtrost.com) for details. Become a member of the practical sportsmen; it cost twenty bucks a year. I'm going to."

End Quote. He told me much more info on the phone the other day and his email is pretty vague so I apologize. One of the things he said is when he was first approached by the CO he was immediately asked to step out of the car. Then they searched his truck thoroughly. They found his gun case opened it and checked his gun for shells. Again I am not trying to stir the pot.

Boehr what I was saying earlier about wishing that CO's followed the same guidelines as other forms of law enforcement about trespassing on land without a warrant, maybe Bob's response answered that question. The ex-DNR person who Lori asked 'How can they do that?' said HUNTING SEASON IS PROBABLY CAUSE.

And the segmant on Fred Trost show did indicate that maybe this 1 road block was what Fred's segmant was in relation to. I don't know, but it does sound like somebody stepped over the line.

[boehr]

Let me say HUNTING SEASON IS NOT ENOUGH PROBABLE CAUSE.

He needs to contact the District Law Supervisor, which from your post would be Lt. Dave Davis in Gaylord. There is nothing more I can say about this because based on the information from your post, it was wrong.

I will defend what is right, be it the hunter or the officer, that's the best I can do.

I would also like to add that from the post, we still don't know the date of this road block. The Officer assault to place on Nov 15 in Cheboygan County which is right next to Presque Isle County. This may or may not make a difference depending on the exact location of both instances

[This message has been edited by boehr (edited 11-28-2000).]