Should Michigan have a seperate "Fish and Wildlife" division?

[Shop Rat]

It seems to me that hunting and fishing are taken for granted by the state government. Another thread about the dnr website got me thinking about this. I don't blame it on people not working hard, especially co's which we need alot more of, but Michigan could be so much better. If we push for a seperate fish and wildlife department, like some states have, would it improve our state in terms of quality, value and enforcement for wildlife?

[Shotgun]

If we push for a seperate fish and wildlife division, like some states have, would it improve our state in terms of quality, value and enforcement for wildlife?


You won't have to push very hard, Shop Rat. They already are separate divisions. :rolleyes:

[Shop Rat]

You won't have to push very hard, Shop Rat. They already are separate divisions. :rolleyes:
I guess I should have been more clear.
Our wildlife fall under the Department of Natural Resources, some states such as Kentucky seperate the DNR and Department of Fish and Wildlife. In Michigan, the wildlife are lumped in with forestry, mining, water quality, and others.

[Shotgun]

Uhhh, you said, "seperate fish and wildlife division". Guess you meant "separate departments." My guess is that *that* will never happen in Michigan.

[bigsablemike]

yes fish and game should be its own dept.let the cops police atvs and snowmobiles.

[chriswaterford2]

First conservation officers are "cops". Second, conservation officers work fish and game patrols simultaneous to ORV and snowmobile patrols. If the ORV and snowmobile responsibilities are taken away, most likely cos would continue to enforce those laws as they see ORV and snowmobile violations in the course of dedicated fish and wildlife patrols.

With that said, there are Sheriff Offices that do have snowmobile, marine and ORV patrols. Some of these offices will go entire seasons without writing a single citation per direction of the sheriff who wants increased state funding and increased deputy visibility but not the negative backlash from issuing citations to recreating constituents.

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

yes, that would be an excellent idea,but, that would only lead to less money for the C.O'S. the way i see it. the fat rat politicians would only drain more money from the L.E.O. side of the pie and raise the hunting and fishing rates so high NO BLUE COLLAR workers would be hunting unless they hit the lottery.
if you didn't notice our hunting and fishing rate hikes are over the next 4 years per say at this time. did you NOTICE ANY trail fees for BIKES, HORSES,and/or any user fees increase other than the hunter and fisherman and women? although your idea is a novice one, it is doomed to failure with the government we have at hand and the economy.

[Shop Rat]

When I said division, I completely messed up what I was trying to say.:confused: I think Michigan should have a department at the state level for Fish and Wildlife.

[Shop Rat]

I also think we need more outdorsmen and outdoorswomen in charge. It seems that this year I really am getting discouraged with things in the DNR. Here are just a few.

1. Those guys near Port Huron poaching 80+ deer and getting a slap on the wrist. They should have gotten way more, and prison time.

2. Everyone knows how deer licenses and deer hunters put alot of money into the economy and deer are the most neglected of animals here. ( bears, elk, turkey, kirkland warblers) for deer the attitude seems to be "just shoot whatever"

3. The r.a.p. "Hotline" should be only for reporting poachers with " A LIVE PERSON" answering the phone. I called because 2 guys and 2 kids were keeping undersized smallmouth bass and what I got was "If you would like to apply for a permit to keep a wild animal, press 1, If you would like to bla bla, press 2" I could hardly get a signal and they want me to leave a message. What is that?

4. Some of the people in the dnr, even at the top, don't hunt or fish. They consulted some locals in the u.p. about the wolves. Those "Consultants" should be the ones working in the dnr or "Fish and Wildlife" division.:)

5. I am done ranting for the day.

6. One more. Michigan could have a deer herd that would be envied by the other states, something like Iowa, Ohio, but we just can't get it together. We do have possibly the best bear, good elk, turkey, why not deer?

now I am done for sure. :)

[Whit1]

1. Those guys near Port Huron poaching 80+ deer and getting a slap on the wrist. They should have gotten way more, and prison time.


Don't point to the DNR, but rather to the legislature.....they make the laws..........the local prosecutor....they decide whether or not to try the case........and finally the judge........they levy the penalty according to the laws set by the legislature.

[boehr]

1. Those guys near Port Huron poaching 80+ deer and getting a slap on the wrist. They should have gotten way more, and prison time.

What does that have to do with the DNR?:dizzy:

2. Everyone knows how deer licenses and deer hunters put alot of money into the economy and deer are the most neglected of animals here. ( bears, elk, turkey, kirkland warblers) for deer the attitude seems to be "just shoot whatever"

Really? I disagree.

3. The r.a.p. "Hotline" should be only for reporting poachers with " A LIVE PERSON" answering the phone. I called because 2 guys and 2 kids were keeping undersized smallmouth bass and what I got was "If you would like to apply for a permit to keep a wild animal, press 1, If you would like to bla bla, press 2" I could hardly get a signal and they want me to leave a message. What is that?

It is suppose to be but you can't prevent idots from dialing that number. Because of all those idots dialing that number is why there is a menu like that. Also, it is answered by a real person but again, so many pnone calls (some of them from the idots) a person can only talk to one person at a time. Might it be better if you were just on hold until the dispatcher got to you? I doubt it, you would still hang up because you were on hold.:sad:

4. Some of the people in the dnr, even at the top, don't hunt or fish. They consulted some locals in the u.p. about the wolves. Those "Consultants" should be the ones working in the dnr or "Fish and Wildlife" division.:)

And those people that you know for a fact are?.....

6. One more. Michigan could have a deer herd that would be envied by the other states, something like Iowa, Ohio, but we just can't get it together. We do have possibly the best bear, good elk, turkey, why not deer?Maybe, but everyone has an opinion.

Many people should increase their knowledge of things, including sportsmen.

[bigsablemike]

seems i read a buttload of orv and snowmobile reports,while i could go to a handful of shorefishing spots around here and write fishing violations.does the dnr really have to check lifejackets and helmets?seems a waste of the purpose.

[boehr]

seems i read a buttload of orv and snowmobile reports,while i could go to a handful of shorefishing spots around here and write fishing violations.does the dnr really have to check lifejackets and helmets?seems a waste of the purpose.Yes because they are sworn to enforce the law. Helemts arn't hard to check and they don't take long. Don't even have to stop someone to see if they are wearing a helmet.:eek: Life jackets don't take long either of course and if they wern't checked then you could complain that the person wouldn't have drowned if the DNR would had made sure their life jacket was good.:yikes:

Just because you read reports of information picked to put in those weekly reports doesn't mean that was all that happen, it is just a small fraction. That material in the reports just happened to be the funniest or showed how stupid some people are for the most part. People would get tired of reading that 20 tickets were issed for fishing without a license or 8 tickets for undersize bass when that is the whole story. Wait lets see if I can make it more interesting. CO John Down checking fishermen of Mud Lake check one fishermen with a 8" bass. Fishermen admitted he caught it and was issed a ticket. Yep that is real interesting. not! That is an everyday occurance.

You said it yourself, ..."while i could go to a handful of shorefishing spots around here and write fishing violations..." pretty common but no reader interest because it is common.

[bigcountrysg]

I don't think we should be asking for any type of changes with in the department of this state. At least not until this state can figure out how to fix the problems this state already has.

I think the DNR is doing the best job it can do as of right now.

[Rustyaxecamp]

In Michigan, the wildlife are lumped in with forestry, mining, water quality, and others.

Last I checked, the DEQ handles most of those things.

Our DNR are doing a great job considering the budget they have. When compared to other states DNRs, the MI DNR look like the red headed stepchilds. Embarrassingly outdated gear, high mileage vehicles (trucks, sleds, etc..), low officer numbers, crapload of young officers, etc, etc..

Could things in the MI DNR be better? Most certainly. Is more funding needed to make things better? Most certainly.

[browning13]

Our DNR are doing a great job considering the budget they have. When compared to other states DNRs, the MI DNR look like the red headed stepchilds. Embarrassingly outdated gear, high mileage vehicles (trucks, sleds, etc..), low officer numbers, crapload of young officers, etc, etc..

Could things in the MI DNR be better? Most certainly. Is more funding needed to make things better? Most certainly.[/quote]
:yeahthat: when it comes to buget cuts the dnr is one of the first things to get trimmed. unforunately, with the current economy it probally isnt going to change any time soon

[TrapperJohn]

The only way to really solve the budget issue is this state is that it is time for every tax paying citizen in this state to have a portion of their income tax that is earmarked to support the DNR. Not a "user pay" only system that only can earmark money bu raise license and user fees!

There are state that do this and have money to fund their states Natural Resource program properly!

[Shop Rat]

1. Those guys near Port Huron poaching 80+ deer and getting a slap on the wrist. They should have gotten way more, and prison time.

What does that have to do with the DNR?:dizzy:

2. Everyone knows how deer licenses and deer hunters put alot of money into the economy and deer are the most neglected of animals here. ( bears, elk, turkey, kirkland warblers) for deer the attitude seems to be "just shoot whatever"

Really? I disagree.

3. The r.a.p. "Hotline" should be only for reporting poachers with " A LIVE PERSON" answering the phone. I called because 2 guys and 2 kids were keeping undersized smallmouth bass and what I got was "If you would like to apply for a permit to keep a wild animal, press 1, If you would like to bla bla, press 2" I could hardly get a signal and they want me to leave a message. What is that?

It is suppose to be but you can't prevent idots from dialing that number. Because of all those idots dialing that number is why there is a menu like that. Also, it is answered by a real person but again, so many pnone calls (some of them from the idots) a person can only talk to one person at a time. Might it be better if you were just on hold until the dispatcher got to you? I doubt it, you would still hang up because you were on hold.:sad:

4. Some of the people in the dnr, even at the top, don't hunt or fish. They consulted some locals in the u.p. about the wolves. Those "Consultants" should be the ones working in the dnr or "Fish and Wildlife" division.:)

And those people that you know for a fact are?.....

6. One more. Michigan could have a deer herd that would be envied by the other states, something like Iowa, Ohio, but we just can't get it together. We do have possibly the best bear, good elk, turkey, why not deer?Maybe, but everyone has an opinion.

Many people should increase their knowledge of things, including sportsmen.
1. This has to do with our deer being de-valued. ( $3 and $7 antlerless tags were devalued the deer, too)
2. When everyone has a combo tag and an antlerless tag, it means shoot whatever, that is why so many button bucks are shot.
3. At first, I could not believe this was the "Report all poachers hotline", why can't there be a seperate number for this? :confused:
4. That was from an article on this site, I might have to find it now.
5. With too few c.o.'s, cheap tags, pathetic sentences for major poachers, a hotline where I have to leave messages, the "Shoot whatever" attitude,

I would like to add a couple of things. I am not a biologist, politician, or pretend to be. I have fished and hunted since 1982. I have never accused our C.O.'s of not working hard, there aren't enough of them. (someone I know works with alot of them up north), I could not believe that there are only 2 c.o.'s for the 3 counties where I hunt and fish. There isn't even one c.o. for each county from what I was told. I will check to be sure, though.

[bigsablemike]

i understand that the dnr are real cops,when you get pulled over by them before you can get a truck length out of your driveway ,and have your truck searched .you know there real cops. my point being this,the reason we were stopped,there have been breakins around here.this is 3 miles out of rosscommon on stephen bridge road.should the sherriff not be dealing with this stuff.it was in june,the same time of year guys like my dad would be down at keystone landing fishing a night crawler.its 10 miles away.where should DNR money be spent?when i go to my property in mason county and see DNR officers waiting by snowmobile trail crossings with breathalyzer in hand i think should the sherriff handle this.while in mason county some douche bag kills 10 bobcats.where should OUR DNR money be spent? why should dnr officers chase down litter bugs?just because its dumped on state land?seems like its usually dumped from a county road. well ive lost my roll,DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES take this as a dnr bashing i completly understand and appreciate the huge task they have to perform and have nothing but complete respect for them.i just feel our money could be spent more on hunting,fishing,and non game wildlife.rather than making someone pay for a 3 dollar campsite,although i understand the need for that also. later,mike

[chriswaterford2]

If I might address some of the topics you bring up...

Ref getting pulled over just outside of your driveway in June when COs have something better to do. Who do you think backs up COs when they are in trouble? Its police officers, sheriffs deputies and state troopers. Do you think that COs have an obligation to support them if they have something going on? If COs don't support their sister agencies, who helps COs when they need help?

As for your statement about PBTs and snowmobiles. You state that Sheriff deputies should be sitting at the snowmobile trail head doing PBTs. Here is what you need to know. When a snowmobile trail sticker is bought, the money goes to the DNR. In some counties, the Sheriff's Office applies for a grant for snowmobile enforcement. But not all counties want this additional money to fund a snowmobile patrol. When a CO is doing snowmobile enforcement, their efforts are paid by trail stickers and snowmobile licenses, not hunting and fishing licenses. Same is true for ORV enforcement. Under Michigan law, the Sheriff Department only has to provide a jail and a water recovery capability.

As for your statement about COs enforcing State Forest Campground fees. Who do you think is responsible for this enforcement? Do you think the Sheriff's Office cares if a State Forest Campground fee is paid? Do you think the State Police care? It is a law enforcement problem and a violation of law if a State Forest Campground site is not registered. So by default, COs become responsible for enforcing the law. And once again, when they are working State Forest Campground enforcement, their wages are paid by State Forest Campground funding, not from hunting and fishing license fees.

You obviously have no clue what the responsibilities of a CO are or how they are funded. For your information, a CO has to document by the hour how they spend their time. How their break down their hours dictates what funds are used to pay the law division. If a CO works 40 hours on the water, the money comes from marine funds. If ORV or snowmobile money runs out, there isn't any ORV or snowmobile enforcement.


Once again, Sheriff Offices by law are only required to provide a jail and water recovery. They are not the end all be all. They do more if counties fund them to do more. They do more if they ask the state for money to do more. If a county or townships decide not to fund the Sheriff Office to provide a road patrol, the State Police provides.

Finally, let me ask you a question. If a Conservation Officer is on patrol and observes an obvious drunk driving in front of them, do you think the Conservation Officer should turn a blind eye? What if the CO is on patrol and is the closest "police officer" to an in progress domestic violence? Do you think they should respond? What if a fellow state trooper, sheriff's deputy or a city police officer requests assistance, do you think the CO should respond?

Many people (not all) who live in SE Michigan do not understand what the true role of the Sheriff's Office or the State Police are. If you ask the average joe in SE Michigan what they think the role of State Police are or should be, they would say "highway patrol". If you ask the same to someone who lives in Luce County or Alger County, they respond that the State Police are who responded when I needed help last night. You ask a similar question about a CO, they might respond that the CO is the person who caught the local snagger but the CO is also the person who responded to a local bar fight because a State Trooper was not on duty and a Sheriff Deputy was 30 minutes away.

[thebellman]

In 1995, Governor John Engler issued Executive Order 1995-18, which separated environmental and natural resources functions into two departments, elevating environmental protection to Cabinet status for the first time in history, and allowing the DNR to return to its original conservation mission.

The Department of Environmental Quality now focuses on environmental regulatory, permitting and related enforcement functions.

The DNR focuses on promoting diverse outdoor recreational opportunities, wildlife and fisheries management, forest management, state lands and minerals, state parks and recreation areas, and conservation and law enforcement.

The DNR has primary responsibilities for managing more public lands than any agency east of the Mississippi River.

The DNR manages and protects 400 species of game and nongame birds, mammals and their habitats, along with over 70 state game and wildlife areas. Wildlife biologists make recommendations on hunting regulations, habitat management, public hunting access, and protect more than 340 threatened and endangered plant and animal species.

Michigan offers a wealth of fishing opportunities with more than 11,000 inland lakes and 36,000 miles of rivers and streams, including 1,000 miles of the finest blue ribbon trout mainstreams in the country. We have 3,000 miles of freshwater shoreline (more than any other state) - and more total shoreline than any other state, except Alaska. Our two peninsulas touch four of the five Great Lakes, which contain 80% of the nation's fresh water and 14% of the world's fresh water. In Michigan you're never more than six miles from a river or stream, and never more than 85 miles from one of the Great Lakes.

The DNR works to preserve and enhance Michigan's fish populations, as well as other forms of aquatic life. Fish are monitored and studied by biologists who strive to keep Michigan fishing among the nation's best. More than 20 fish species are reared and hatched at six state hatcheries, and then planted into designated waters to maintain or improve fish populations.

Spanning 3.9 million acres, Michigan has the largest dedicated state forest system in the nation--three forests in the Upper Peninsula and three forests in the Lower Peninsula. Forests are popular spots for wildlife viewing, hunting, fishing, hiking, cross country skiing, backpacking and horseback riding. A DNR-established network of 6,100 miles of groomed snowmobile trails is the reason that we register more snowmobiles than any other state. And 150 rustic campgrounds provide valuable recreational opportunities.

The Parks and Recreation Division manages 97 state parks and recreation areas, 829 developed boating access sites, 10 lighthouses, 16 harbors and six scenic sites. Together these facilities provide recreation opportunities for more than 22 million state park visitors each year and Michigan's nearly one million registered boaters

Michigan Conservation Officers primarily enforce laws related to hunting, fishing and trapping, as well as laws governing the operation of boats, snowmobiles and recreational vehicles. COs also work with other state, federal and local law-enforcement agencies to enforce a wide range of statutes and assist in undercover investigations, fire prevention and emergency search, rescue and recovery operations.

Conservation Officers help locate lost hunters, provide emergency medical assistance and play an integral role in the department's educational public outreach efforts with conservation organizations and clubs, community groups and schools. Conservation Officers frequently help establish and serve as instructors of recreational safety programs for hunters, boaters and operators of recreational vehicles.

Please look at the following to understand the State of the DNR, and what the people there are up against in trying to accomplish the above.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/licensepackagefactsheet1-12-07_184245_7.pdf

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/licensepackageprogramreductions8-07_205910_7.pdf