Fox / Coyote Flat set ~ basic principal ?

[magnumhntr]

Ok, I understand the concept of the basic dirthole set. Lure on the backing, hole with or without bait, trap in front of hole. Target animal steps on trap while investigating the hole.

Now onto the flat set. I see there is also a backing, but no hole. So is the backing getting the lure? Where is the trap bed? What is the concept with this type of set? What's the difference between the flat set and a post set? How do you get the animal to approach the correct side of the backing? Would like to ad d this set to my arsenal this year as I am going to be k9 trapping pretty hard, and would like to know the hows and whys of this set.

Thanks!

Chris

[Dave Lyons]

Mag,

The Flat and Post set are nothing more then a dirthole above ground.

Dave

[magnumhntr]

Ok...lol... but how does it work ?

Example A...

Say I use a stick 4-6 inches in diameter 2 ft long as my backing. The trap is bed about 4 inches in front of it. Lure on the stick. How do I get the fox or coyote to approach the set from the correct side? Do I need another 'backing', guiding, or will they circle it checking both sides. I'm envisioning a set out in say a cut crop field where they could approach the set from any direction. So how do I get them to step on the trap?

Also, what is the difference between a post set and a flat set?

Thanks!

Chris

[David G Duncan]

magnumhntr,

Flat sets are a great change up set to have in your back pocket.

I like to mix up my sets and use dirtholes, flat and urine/scent post sets on any given property or location I am setting up for canines.

Here is a version of a flat set that I have had good success with over the years.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Flat_Set.jpg

I use a rerod stake to make the two scent holes and then cover the scent hole with some grass or a leaf.

By having two different lures, the fox or coyote will have a tendancy move back and forth between them and increase the change of stepping on the trap pan. I use a very small twig or stone as a guide on one side of the trap for the canine to step over.

Flat sets can throw a real curve to the canine that has become wise to the dirthole set.

Here is photo of a remade Flat Set, after a nice coyote found it too tempting to pass by. Hind foot catches are fairly common at a flat set for obvious reasons.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Fork_in_the_Road_Coyote_Flat_Set.jpg

[griffondog]

Magnumhntr

I don't have a pic of a true flat set but this is going to have to be close enough. This is a mound set after a skunk catch but it will show you the basic principle of a flat set. You can use a piece of bone for a backing and some eye appeal. I like to use a piece of skunk tail also. On a true flat set you blend in the dirt pattern better.



Griff


http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/3043/medium/100_0878.JPG (http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=64008&size=big&cat=3043)

[magnumhntr]

I think I understand it now ~ so if I were to lure the backing, I'm assuming I just put the lure on the same side as the trap, vs on top of the backing? I see where David is trying to get them to check out both lures hoping to get them to step on the pan while going back and forth. But with Griffondogs' example, the lure would be placed on the same side of the backing , correct? Or will they circle the set regardless of where the lure is placed. I guess I'm trying to understand how an animal will approach and work a flat set, seeing as there isn't a hole on one side for them to focus on and in doing so, will know how to get them to step on my pan :D

Secondly, is the post set nothing more than a flat set with urine instead of lure? Or is there more to it than that?

Thanks for the direction!

CHris

[David G Duncan]

Chris,

"so if I were to lure the backing, I'm assuming I just put the lure on the same side as the trap, vs on top of the backing?"

I would suggest, if you are only going to be using a single type of lure or scent at your flat set, to place it on the downwind side near the base or even slightly under your backing. Rather than simply on top. This will help in getting the canine to work the side of the backing where you have you trap set.

"I see where David is trying to get them to check out both lures hoping to get them to step on the pan while going back and forth. But with Griffondogs' example, the lure would be placed on the same side of the backing , correct?"

By using two different types of attractors at the flat set it will increase the canines curiosity. You can use a food lure in combination with gland scent, but I would not recommend using any really loud call lure at this type of set. A call lure could be placed some distance 20 or 25' up wind from the set several feet above the ground, if you are trying to draw the canine to your set from their normal travel route.

"Or will they circle the set regardless of where the lure is placed. I guess I'm trying to understand how an animal will approach and work a flat set, seeing as there isn't a hole on one side for them to focus on and in doing so, will know how to get them to step on my pan "

As you gain experience in reading sign, you will develop a sixth sense regarding where to place you trap to maximize your potential for success. By this I mean you will come to visualize where the coyote or fox will travel as they pass through any particular terrain. It is a good idea to spend as much time as you can tracking fox and coyote in the snow, so you can see how they travel in relationship to various types of landscapes they encounter.

But by always making your set and placement of your set with the prevailing wind direction in mind you will definitely increase your chances of making your catch. A canine will invaribly work a set from the downwind side!

"Secondly, is the post set nothing more than a flat set with urine instead of lure? Or is there more to it than that?"

A scent post set, also can have many variations. This type of set is basically imitation of where a fox or coyote has marked its territory. So when you are doing your snow tracking of your fox or coyote pay special attention to how they approach a location they have marked with urine. Especially to where they place their feet in relationship to the point of aim.

A tuff of grass scent post set is one of my favorites and with a fresh fox or coyote dropping place on top it makes it even better.

It is fun to set sand blows for fox or coyotes using a leading scent post set. The fact that scent post is leading will insure that they work the scent post of the side you want them to come into it from.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Urine_Post_Set.jpg

[magnumhntr]

Thank you for your help and patience David. I know I ask alot of questions, probably some foolish ones, but I do appreciate the help. I never knew anyone that trapped when I was younger, so at 34 I am way behind the 8 ball per se, and any help/info I can get will help shorten my learning curve. If I meet up with ya at the convention this weekend, I'll spring for the first round :D

Thanks again!

Chris

[David G Duncan]

Chris,

You are most welcome!

All of us benefit when you ask questions. So keep them coming.

Hope to see you at the convention this weekend.

[mhodnettjr]

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Fork_in_the_Road_Coyote_Flat_Set.jpg

I love this set, I use it just like Dave describes. I also will use it with no backing at all. Simply two holes with a trap in the middle and a different lure in each hole. I also make the holes point towards the trap (angle the hole goes down) so the animal has to be on the trap side to get his best sniff at it. I believe i caught 2 coyotes and 3 bobcats in this manner last year. (bobcats must use their noses sometimes too:))

edit: the droppings really do work well. Its funny driving around and stopping to pic up coyote poop laying on the roads. :)

[David G Duncan]

Mike,

I thought I was the only one picking up coyote scat! :D

We trappers are pretty funny. Hard telling what you might find in a zip lock bag on our freezer. :corkysm55

[Nealbopper]

Hi all,

I have been reading all the posts and trap set variations and taking into account all that i have already learned, i feel confident that i can outsmart
the K9. I just have a few questions from a guy who hasn't bought or set his first trap. (I am looking to buy a few traps real soon for the fall season. any suggestions?):help:

Do you double stake a trap in an "X" pattern to prevent pull out?

What do i do with the length of chain i have on my trap?

How do i disperce not target quarry? Say a skunk? Mad dog or Racoon.?

Will latex gloves out of the box be a good choice for scent control.?

Can someone post hints on scent cotrol methods prior to getting out.?

That should take care of my most pressing questions. Thanks in advance - i have learned so much already from all you well seasoned trappers and i haven't been out yet. Awesome threads!

[Nealbopper]

While i was thinking of it i checked Craigslist.com and found 13 #3 traps already modified for a reasonable price.

I read more Basic trapping posts and know about double staking.

I found out about where the extra chain goes. I now have an idea about a catch pole but still wonder about skunks.

I am still wondering about scents and scent control.

I read about keeping your scents seperate from your traps.

Do i need a CCW to carry a small .22 for my successful traps?

How do i manage my euthanising technique so minimal damage occures?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[FMann]

Do i need a CCW to carry a small .22 for my successful traps? If your going to use a pistol then I would have one, if your using a rifle then no.

How do i manage my euthanising technique so minimal damage occures? Use 22 shorts/CB's

I am still wondering about scents and scent control.

I read about keeping your scents seperate from your traps.
I use just a clean/new pair of jersy gloves (I only caught 1 fox last year) I keep my sents/lures in a pouch on the side of my bucket (it was a tool pouch that I tied to the 5gal pal I put my traps in) holds them real nice. Another idea is to use a choke tube pouch for shotguns.

[griffondog]

Nealbopper

Sounds like you going to give Mr coyote a run for his money next year. I would suggest you head up to the Mta convention in Evart on Aug. 22 and 23. You can watch some k-9 demos from some of the best trappers in the state. I would also hold off on buying your traps now and get them up there. 3 size traps may not be what you want to start off with if your going to be trapping in Oakland County.

Griff

[Nealbopper]

I backed out of that purchase. Actually they were #2 Victors and i havent been reading anything good about them. I know i will pay a premium for new traps and i am not sure if waiting untill August 23 would give me enough time to get the traps ready. You think i could prep them in time?

Why wouldn't a #3 be good for Oakland Co.? Would a #2 be beter if it was a 4 spring? I ordered my dye and wax last night. Looked arounf for comparative wax and it was all about the same price. We have allot of Yotes and Fox around here and not many trappers. I know there are not going to be trappers on the 3 miles of property i have to trap on. At least it's what the land owner told me. Meanwhile i have been cutting my rebar and welding washers to them for my stakes. I am also looking for the little things to add to my bucket. I like the idea of using coffee filters for pan covers. Sounds real cheep and effective but hey, i may like wax paper better.

The Evart show sounds like a very real likelyhood. I think it would be cool to meet some of you guys that i have been talking to on the site here. :D

[griffondog]

Neal

Glad your going to come up to the convention you'll have a good time. Watch out for trappers offering drinks out of mason jars.

Some good traps to start off with would be MB 550's, montgomery 2's, Sleepy Creek 1.75's and Victor 1.75 pro traps. When the montana 2 trap hits the market it should be a good trap.

Your going to catch a lot of grinners,coons, and skunks in Oakland county early in the season and 3 traps are to large of a trap to catch them in. I start using my 3's in Jan and Feb when the deep snow starts.

I would check out cable stakes instead of rebar. I also use poly fill instead of pan covers.

It only takes a couple days to get you traps ready to go so you have lots of time.


Griff

[Nealbopper]

Damn i'm tired and still pumped at the same time. GO WINGS, 08 CHAMPIONS:grouphug::woohoo1::woohoo1::woohoo1:

Sorry about the Smiles, i had to....

Got your suggestions noted. Are cables a pain in the winter. I just figured i would be pounding anyhow so i cut a bunch of rebar for "X" anchors. Some love em some dont. Tell you what, they are inexpensive so i will try a few.

[FREEPOP]

The thing about rebar stakes is the weight. Some people are lucky enough to be able to drive to their sets, not me and cable stake weigh next to nothing and are disposable but I usually dig mine up and reuse them a couple times.

Extra chain is in the trap bed usually under the loose jaw.

At the convention ask about dispatching animals or through PMs, a catch pole is a real handy thing to release a dog or cat and is helpful for traget animals too.

As far as scent control, I have a clip on my bucket that I put a pair of rubber gloves on and wear rubber boots. Keeping your odor to a minimum is the goal, eliminating it is impossible. I use a different pair of rubber gloves for applying lures as my last step. The very last thing you want is a trap with any scent on it.

Racoons, possums, muskrats and skunks will get you gas money and brownie points from farmers/landowners.

Look in the archives here for lots of info from trap preparation to land and water trapping. Hours and hours of good reading info http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/cfrm


Oh and one last thing, you'll quickly find out that trapping is a lot of work. It's a great obsession though :)

[Jonathan64]

David, Thank you for providing that most articulate, detailed lesson on the Flat Set. You are an excellent teacher. I am glad I sat in on this class - learned alot, as I have only used something only remotely similar to the formal "flat set" you described over 55 years of red fox trapping with dirt hole and scent posts.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Nealbopper]

Good morning Freepop and Griff, David.

I am an early riser in the morning because i usually start work at 6:00 AM.
I can adjust my start time for work but i know that i will be checking my trap lines prior to heading off to work. The sun will not be up when i get out
to check lines. I have a .22 short pistol, following all the rules and regulations, will i be breaking the law if i shoot a trapped animal before sun up? Have any of you guys been approached for poaching by someone calling the MAN because a gun wen't off before sun up? Thanks, Neal

[HunterHawk]

neal its a rimfire.... you are fine.... your just not supposed to have it loaded until you shoot the animal... correct me if im wrong guys...

[Nealbopper]

HunterHawk,
Thank you, Neal

[FREEPOP]

Yep, you're good to go Neal

Here's another something you're gonna want to read

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=744733#Post744733

[FREEPOP]

David, Thank you for providing that most articulate, detailed lesson on the Flat Set. You are an excellent teacher. I am glad I sat in on this class - learned alot, as I have only used something only remotely similar to the formal "flat set" you described over 55 years of red fox trapping with dirt hole and scent posts.

Regards,

Jonathan

Hi Johnathon, nice to see you over in our neck of the woods. Ever get that 22 magnum?

John

[Jonathan64]

Hi John, Not quite. I opted for the Henry H001T, non-magnum, because I wanted the octagon barrel not offered with H001TM magnum. It is as close to the older Marlin we talked about with the octagon barell that I could possibly ever imagine. It is a keeper.

Jonathan

[Nealbopper]

Hi guys,

I don't want to get too far of the subject here and start talking guns. I got the idea and will be looking for a .22 to carry afiels real soon. I may even buy a used one. Thanks for all you help. I am in the process of making a copper catch pole because i'm afraid the PVC on just isnt strong enough. My Jack Russell could tear it up and she weighs only 12 lbs. Wish i could post, i would show you guys what she looks like.

[FREEPOP]

I got your PM Johnathon, nice looking gun :)


Neal, F & T has catch pole for about 20 bucks, I was going to make my own but thought for that price, heck I'd just buy one. I got the longer one as I really don't want to be too close to the animals.