can you explain this to me

[jstfish48162]

i have been shooting for the past 3 weeks or so, and after 200 to 300 shots at 20 yards, i decided to cut the distance in 1/2 and see what my arrow did at 10 steps......it dropped about 5 inches!!!!!

i shoot a diamond rapture, whisker biscuit rest, 29 inch draw, release, easton 340 carbon arrows with blazer vanes and 125 grain head.

any clues as to why the arrow would shoot lower at a closer distance, rather than higher?

thanks.....:fish:

[Target3]

Arrows don't exactly fly straight. Arrow flex when they are shot. In your case shooting a release the arrow will flex up and down. Shooting fingers the arrow will flex left to right.

So what you saw is that at 10 steps the arrow hit the target on a downward flex. So in order to correct that, you might want to try your 30, 35, or 40 yard pin. One of those pins should have the right flex combination to make the 10 step shot more accurate.

Archery is just phyics...:)

[jstfish48162]

thanks...will do that tomorrow while practicing.:fish:

[grandblanc]

jstfish48162,

i shoot a bowtech Might Mite setup with a dropzone rest, and scott release. using my 20-yard pin, my arrows hit dead on at 10-yards. is your bow paper tuned? if not you might want to. your arrow could be kicking off the rest when you shoot.

[Kelly Johnson]

Target hit it on the head.

When I shoot from point blank to 6 feet or so I need to use my 50 yard pin.

[Michihunter]

Think of an arch as the trajectory of an arrow.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/Michihunter/Archery%20Hunting/arch.jpg

[jstfish48162]

Michihunter....my issue is just the opposite of your diagram. my arrow starts low and planes out at 20 yards and hits where my pin is set. i'm going to have it paper tuned today, and then go from there.

my biggest issue with this is most of my shots are 20 yards or less....ALOT of them are within 15 yards. so, when i am properly tuned, i am going to re-sight my bow starting at 10 yards and gradually move back in 3 to 5 yard increments to fine tune my set-up.

gotta go....i have some shooting to do!!!!!!

thanks alot for all of the tips....:fish:

[Michihunter]

Michihunter....my issue is just the opposite of your diagram. my arrow starts low and planes out at 20 yards and hits where my pin is set. i'm going to have it paper tuned today, and then go from there.

my biggest issue with this is most of my shots are 20 yards or less....ALOT of them are within 15 yards. so, when i am properly tuned, i am going to re-sight my bow starting at 10 yards and gradually move back in 3 to 5 yard increments to fine tune my set-up.

gotta go....i have some shooting to do!!!!!!

thanks alot for all of the tips....:fish:

I musta misread it. I was under the impression that your arrow was low at 10steps. Being low is normal at closer yardages due to your arrow being on the upward swing of the arch.;)

[No.4shot]

Michihunter is right it is called ARCHery for a reason.

[Joe Archer]

Yes, paper tune. Most likely your arrow is coming off "knock-high" At 20 yards with a field point the front of the arrow is raised up to where the feathers are. The shorter distance doesn’t allow as much time for the feathers to raise the front of your arrow.
If you are using a broad head, this will be exaggerated even more.
<----<<<

[kerby1]

My buddy and I were talking about this one. Is it possible that your arrow's are too light and do not have enough backbone for the set ups your are shooting. I understand that you will have flex, but is this more than what it should be. Just a comment, this one made my eyes cross, if I thought to hard about it.

[TnRidge]

How high is your nock point or string loop set above square ?

[torokfam]

Michihunter is right. Look at his arch picture. If you put the bull at 20 yards on the arch then back it up keeping it at the same level you will see your arrow is going to hit lower due to the fact it is still climbing in the arch. Each bow is defferant as they have differand arches. Dont put the bull on the line at 10 keep it at the same level it was at 20

[grandblanc]

your arrow is going to hit lower due to the fact it is still climbing in the arch.


How can your arrow hit LOWER if your arrow is still climbing in the arch? The solution is very easy. Paper tune your bow first and then sight it in. I assure you that this will solve all of his problems. Also, think about this...let's assume you have a 10-yard pin and a 20-yard pin. They both are sighted in for their respected yardage. If you move back to 20-yard and hold your 10-yard pin dead center, you will notice your 20-yard pin is lower than the 10-yard pin. Move the bow up so your 20-yard pin is dead center. Walk forwad to 10-yards and holding your 20-yard pin dead center. Where is your 10-yard pin? It's higher on the target. If he is to shoot with his 20-yard pin from 10-yards there is no way his arrow will hit low.

[bigbucksstop]

Truefully you definately need to papertune your bow, but also shoot your bow from a treestand. Thats the only way I like to practice, I know not everyone has that option but you need to. Thats how you find out all your flaws, and trust me you'll find them. Shooting out of a stand with broadheads is the only way to really tune your bow in. Good Luck.

[Michihunter]

How can your arrow hit LOWER if your arrow is still climbing in the arch? The solution is very easy. Paper tune your bow first and then sight it in. I assure you that this will solve all of his problems. Also, think about this...let's assume you have a 10-yard pin and a 20-yard pin. They both are sighted in for their respected yardage. If you move back to 20-yard and hold your 10-yard pin dead center, you will notice your 20-yard pin is lower than the 10-yard pin. Move the bow up so your 20-yard pin is dead center. Walk forwad to 10-yards and holding your 20-yard pin dead center. Where is your 10-yard pin? It's higher on the target. If he is to shoot with his 20-yard pin from 10-yards there is no way his arrow will hit low.
You obviously have it all figured out so I won't go any further to explain archery ballistics to ya. But if you are using both a 10 and a 20 yard pin, you must have a very SLOW bow.;) BTW- Here's the projected trajectory for my setup that shoots at 292fps. It's from Pinwheel software and you might notice that at 10 yards my arrow is some 5" below where it is at 20. Bottom is in yards and side is in inches.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/Michihunter/Trajectory.jpg

[grandblanc]

You obviously have it all figured out so I won't go any further to explain archery ballistics to ya. But if you are using both a 10 and a 20 yard pin, you must have a very SLOW bow.;) BTW- Here's the projected trajectory for my setup that shoots at 292fps. It's from Pinwheel software and you might notice that at 10 yards my arrow is some 5" below where it is at 20. Bottom is in yards and side is in inches.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v462/Michihunter/Trajectory.jpg

That is because everyone is using a 20-yard target for calculations. Dude, I've shot all my life and know what I'm talking about. After all if someone happens to have a 10-yeard pin, then why is is always on the top of the 20-yard pin? Also, if you read my first reply, you'll notice the bow I shoot is not slow. I'm shooting 292 fps with my hunting arrows. Anyhow just so you know, I don't have a 10-yard pin. I was using that as an illustration.

[Michihunter]

Those calculations are based on 50 yards.;) The reson that someones 10 yqard pin is on top is because their bow is slow and they are on the downward curve already at 20 yards.

[wildcoy73]

tthe graph is off for the shooting this guy is doing yes at 50 yards and a 50 yard pin would produce the lower 10 than 20 but 10 to 20 hitting that far apart when sighted in at 20 tells me we have a bow set up wrong. i have never had to adjust my sight for 10yards and 20 yards and with it set at 20 i am in the kill zone at 35+ have the bow tuned or watch your arrow fly and see how it is flying. i bet you will see a tail high arrow.

[Michihunter]

He says low 5" at 10 steps. Are we assuming that this is 10 yards? The closer he is to the target, the lower the arrow will shoot. 5" isn't that much when you consider he may be closer than 10 yards. Anyone that has shot 3D before and has had one of those up close and friendly targets they like throwing at you will know what I say is true. As Kelly said earlier, he uses a 50 yard pin at 6 ft to hit dead on. ;)

[grandblanc]

Visualize this for me. For bow and arrow sight adjustment you move your pin in the direction your arrows are hitting.

Your argument for the reason someones 10-yard pin is on top of their 20-yard pin is due to the fact that their bow is slow holds no water. So what your saying is that if your 20-yard pin hit low at 10-yards, then you would move your pin lower to get your arrow to hit dead on? Your telling me that the top most pin on your sight is your farthest distance pin? Your 50-yard pin is on top of your 20-yard pin?

Every sight with muliple pins is set up to have the top pin be the pin for the closest distance that person will shoot. The bottom pin is for the longest distance that person will shoot. This is because using, let's say your 20-yard pin at 10-yards, your arrow will hit high. You would need to move that pin up to correct an arrow that will always hit high.

[walleyeman2006]

very simple paper tune it.....i bet it is coming off the rest and kicking up..........if you ever play with rest adjustment you can make arrows do wild things......paper tune at 5 ft.....10ft and 15 yards min......old news paper and a square frame is all i use

[Ninja]

For the Love of Mary......quit bickering.

Bring yourself and your bow in to my shop....I'll get you shooting properly inside of 15 minutes!!!

[grandblanc]

jstfish48162,
If I were you I would take Ken up on his offer. He has a great shop and people on staff who know what they are talking about. I had Dave tune my stuff up last year. It only took him like 2 minutes and I was shooting bullets.

[Ninja]

jstfish48162,
If I were you I would take Ken up on his offer. He has a great shop and people on staff who know what they are talking about. I had Dave tune my stuff up last year. It only took him like 2 minutes and I was shooting bullets.


Thank you......'nuff said. ;)

[fasthunter]

Visualize this for me. For bow and arrow sight adjustment you move your pin in the direction your arrows are hitting.

Your argument for the reason someones 10-yard pin is on top of their 20-yard pin is due to the fact that their bow is slow holds no water. So what your saying is that if your 20-yard pin hit low at 10-yards, then you would move your pin lower to get your arrow to hit dead on? Your telling me that the top most pin on your sight is your farthest distance pin? Your 50-yard pin is on top of your 20-yard pin?

Every sight with muliple pins is set up to have the top pin be the pin for the closest distance that person will shoot. The bottom pin is for the longest distance that person will shoot. This is because using, let's say your 20-yard pin at 10-yards, your arrow will hit high. You would need to move that pin up to correct an arrow that will always hit high.
I am by no means an expert whatsoever. My 10 yard pin has always been the highest followed by my 20 and 30 moving down. I don't know how fast my bow shoots, but it's set at 70lbs with 26.5 inch 300 carbon arrows and a 125 grain point. It can't be shooting that slow either.;):) Not trying to start an argument with anyone else on here. Just stating that my bow shoots quick and my top pin is 10 yards and is dead on.

[GVDocHoliday]

I know that my 20 yard pin hits the dead on at 20 as well as at 8 yards. At 5 yards I need to use my 45 yard pin. I've had setups that 11 and 20 yards shared the mirror apex of the ballistic curve.

If you need a 10 yard pin then there's something wrong with your setup. There's really no reason to have a pin lower than 18 yards.

[fasthunter]

I know that my 20 yard pin hits the dead on at 20 as well as at 8 yards. At 5 yards I need to use my 45 yard pin. I've had setups that 11 and 20 yards shared the mirror apex of the ballistic curve.

If you need a 10 yard pin then there's something wrong with your setup. There's really no reason to have a pin lower than 18 yards.
Your probably right, I do feel comfortable with it and it hits it's mark everytime. The difference isn't much and I probably don't need it. I just like using it for those deer right under my stand.:) I think it's just more of a mental confidence thing for me.:coolgleam

[Joe Archer]

As stated repeatedly, you need to paper tune. The problem that people are having with trajectory can be straightened out pretty easily. Everyone seems to understand that there is a curve involved. However, the point that seems to be misunderstood is that the highest point of the curve is near center between point of release and point of impact. So... if someone has a pin set for 20 yards and they move up to ten yards and use the same pin, they will in effect be measuring the height of their trajectory curve. In other words, they should shoot high. If they now move to five yards and use the same pin, the arrow will impact before it reaches it's maximum height.
In any case, you will be pretty close if you estimate your arrow's maximum height at about the mid point between you and your target.
If you want to take this to another level set a pin for 30 yards and measure how high your arrow hits at 15 yards. If you desire a one-pin set up, you can easily see how high to hold at various yardage. If you hit two inches high at fifteen yards (with a 30 yard pin), you will hold two iches low with the one pin for a 15 yard shot, and about one inch low at 22.5 yards. In this example, you should be about one inch high at 7.5 yards with a 30 yard pin.
<----<<<

[grandblanc]

As stated repeatedly, you need to paper tune. The problem that people are having with trajectory can be straightened out pretty easily. Everyone seems to understand that there is a curve involved. However, the point that seems to be misunderstood is that the highest point of the curve is near center between point of release and point of impact. So... if someone has a pin set for 20 yards and they move up to ten yards and use the same pin, they will in effect be measuring the height of their trajectory curve. In other words, they should shoot high. If they now move to five yards and use the same pin, the arrow will impact before it reaches it's maximum height.
In any case, you will be pretty close if you estimate your arrow's maximum height at about the mid point between you and your target.
If you want to take this to another level set a pin for 30 yards and measure how high your arrow hits at 15 yards. If you desire a one-pin set up, you can easily see how high to hold at various yardage. If you hit two inches high at fifteen yards (with a 30 yard pin), you will hold two iches low with the one pin for a 15 yard shot, and about one inch low at 22.5 yards. In this example, you should be about one inch high at 7.5 yards with a 30 yard pin.
<----<<<
Thank God someone else is sane and understands what the poroblem is. As I and Joe Archer had stated you should get your bow paper tuned. It should be the fist thing you do after you have finished setting up your bow. After paper tuning then sight it in. Once you do this and you get your 20-yard pin sighted in at 20-yards, you will no longer shoot low if you happen to shoot from 10-yards using your 20-yard pin.;)

[fasthunter]

As stated repeatedly, you need to paper tune. The problem that people are having with trajectory can be straightened out pretty easily. Everyone seems to understand that there is a curve involved. However, the point that seems to be misunderstood is that the highest point of the curve is near center between point of release and point of impact. So... if someone has a pin set for 20 yards and they move up to ten yards and use the same pin, they will in effect be measuring the height of their trajectory curve. In other words, they should shoot high. If they now move to five yards and use the same pin, the arrow will impact before it reaches it's maximum height.
In any case, you will be pretty close if you estimate your arrow's maximum height at about the mid point between you and your target.
If you want to take this to another level set a pin for 30 yards and measure how high your arrow hits at 15 yards. If you desire a one-pin set up, you can easily see how high to hold at various yardage. If you hit two inches high at fifteen yards (with a 30 yard pin), you will hold two iches low with the one pin for a 15 yard shot, and about one inch low at 22.5 yards. In this example, you should be about one inch high at 7.5 yards with a 30 yard pin.
<----<<<
That makes sense.:)

[Michihunter]

I'll respectfully disagree. What Joe has posted does make sense but only to a degree. I won't argue that a bow should be tuned. That is ABSOLUTELY necessary. But POI's change in regard to a ballistic curve depending on too many variables. Speed, weight, FOC, and fletch resistance being the greatest of those. Easy enough to find out by shooting your rig at the distances he quoted. But the faster the bow, the flatter the trajectory. The greater the FOC, the greater gravity has an effect on your setup. Just too many variables to give a standard approach to ballistics. I would like to mention one thing that seems to have been forgotten by the "sane" ones though. The original poster said 10 STEPS. Can anyone tell me how far that is?:lol:

[jstfish48162]

10 STEPS is my version of 10 YARDS. that is how i measure my distance in the field from my tree to various objects in my immediate area when i get ready to set up for the hunt, that way i can mark my "yardage" the same way i mark my "yardage" when i am practicing.. it isn't a measured 10 yards, or 20 yards...it is what i am sighting in by. it isn't scientific, but i have had very good success over the years filling my freezer with my "STEP" method....:D:fish:

[D.Barnes]

5 inch low is not flex it is bend.