Variances between Lots

[QuakrTrakr]

I know the powder manufacturers say to start with a minimum load when using a different lot of powder, even if it's the same powder, and work up to a load. BUT, has anyone seen differences between Lots? How unsafe is it to just jump in and cook up a batch of your favorite load with a new lot?

[7MM Magnum]

I normally purchase my powders in large canisters (5-8 lbs) in most instances. But,.. even so in doing the lot numbers have changed and so far I haven't noticed any major differences in performance from one to the other. Granted there are some changes but in my cases they were barely negligible in chrony FPS or deviation rates.

I still however from a safety standpoint start at a lesser rate of powder and work up to my existing recipe formulas.

It to me just isn't worth the risk to shortcut a few extra simple steps to guarantee safety for both myself and my firearms. Besides I get to shoot more this way! ;) :D :lol:

[QuakrTrakr]

Good point. The extra few rounds it takes, isn't worth the risk.

[Huntsman27]

and youre good to go. I also buy the larger quantities [8lb jugs] once Ive found a load. Especially Prairie dog ammunition that Ill load in volume. I ve never expirienced any problems, but safety is a concern.

[QuakrTrakr]

and youre good to go. I also buy the larger quantities [8lb jugs] once Ive found a load. Especially Prairie dog ammunition that Ill load in volume. I ve never expirienced any problems, but safety is a concern.

Just like the saying goes, "Better safe than sorry". Man, metals are going up. I paid $15/100 for Sierra BK's a couple months ago, and now they're almost $18/100. :eek:

[beartooth]

There can be as much as a 10% variance in different lots of the same powder. My friends and I have loaded many rounds for different cartridges over the years and found there is a difference in powder by as much as 10%. For example: In my Mark V 300WBY, I load a 180gr TSX in front of 84.5grs of RL-22. Now before anybody panics please read the rest before responding. Yes, this load is 4.5grs over book. Now I just did not jump up and say ok I will load 4.5grs over book and put my face and possibly my life on the line! I worked up to this load. When I got close to max load for the book I began to go up a half grain at a time checking my pressures by measuring the base of my brass after I fired each round knowing I would stop when the base expanded .0005". As I worked up a half grain at a time there was little to no expansion and primers looked fine and no shinny spots on the base of my brass. I began at 83grs to get expansion and that let me know I was getting close. At 84.5 I had expanded .0004 and decided to stop. Now why did I stop and not go up until the base expanded to .0005? Well, I had already reached outstanding velocities of 3287fps on the average and excellent accuracy and saw no need to continue. This was a very cool lot of RL-22 and here are two targets shot with this load to illusrate why I stop and did not need to push any further. The first one is a group size of .334" and the second one is a group size of .1005"

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u245/mhsp68/IMG_5532.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u245/mhsp68/IMG_5607.jpg

Now to make my point, I tried a different lot of RL-22 and could only reach 81.3grs when the base of the brass had expanded .0004. This was a hotter lot of powder and did not have as good accracy as the other lot at the same pressures as seen in the following target which was a grooup size of .452"
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u245/mhsp68/IMG_5530.jpg

I would advise anyone who is reloading to work up. Have you ever wondered why at times your favorite pet load when you bought a new lot of the same powder did not give you the same results. Well it is possible that your new lot is hotter or cooler than the last lot you used. Please do not use any of my load data stated above with out working up because your lot could be as much as 10% hotter than mine was. Now I know some will think this is just anecdotal experience:D:D Please work up to max and start over with every lot of powder, just a suggestion but it might be worth consideration. My gunsmith said he fixes or throws away a lot of rifles and pistols that were destroyed or ruined by hand loaders. :)

[QuakrTrakr]

10% variance is a lot. Especially in my .204 where .2 grains makes a big accuracy difference.

[Huntsman27]

Always found a happy medium between velocity and accuracy. Id take an accurate cartridge over the high speed spray and pray anytime.:lol:

On an interesting note...B/T? just how is it youve come to the conclusion your powder is "cooler"??? as we all know it couldve been the day you tested was different than the last batch you tested on a different day?
It does seem like you enjoy going beyond the manufacturers recommendations with all of your loading.
That quote about your gunsmith....none of those guns were yours now were they????

[QuakrTrakr]

I found this-
"Extruded powders are usually manufactured in batches of around 5,000 to 15,000 pounds at a time. When done they are tested against a reference lot. If a particular batch does not fall within the specifications for a specific powder name or number the manufacturers are able to blend with lots that may be a little slower or faster to get a lot of powder that falls within specifications. When the powder gets to Hodgdon they check it again against the same reference lot. Both reference and new powders are shot with the same components and at the same conditions of temperature and humidity. A number of 10-shot strings are fired in SAAMI standard test equipment and both pressure and velocity are measured. If the new powder is within +/- 3 percent of the reference lot it is accepted and packaged."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_12_51/ai_n15736803

[rzdrmh]

anecdotal evidence or not, lot to lot variation is real, though 10% seems high. i'd seek a different powder if i found such a variance. the hodgdon extreme powders are reputed to have minimal variance.

kind of difficult to say that accuracy was lacking on the lesser charge, when you're talking about .1 - .4" . three tenths of an inch could well be the shooter.

[Huntsman27]

anecdotal evidence or not, lot to lot variation is real, though 10% seems high. i'd seek a different powder if i found such a variance. the hodgdon extreme powders are reputed to have minimal variance.

kind of difficult to say that accuracy was lacking on the lesser charge, when you're talking about .1 - .4" . three tenths of an inch could well be the shooter.
powders for the PD loading. Temps can vary from 50s-90s and some powders velocity spreads are unbelieveable. One pal loaded H-414 and a few other Ball powders he had all kinds of trouble at the 90 degree days even though they were not max loads....my stick powders were trouble free and thinned the PD numbers...whilst said friend was having troubles with extracting cases and so forth.
Id agree with RZ that if a powder was giving 10% variance Id find something else to work with.

[beartooth]

Always found a happy medium between velocity and accuracy. Id take an accurate cartridge over the high speed spray and pray anytime.:lol:

On an interesting note...B/T? just how is it youve come to the conclusion your powder is "cooler"??? as we all know it couldve been the day you tested was different than the last batch you tested on a different day?
It does seem like you enjoy going beyond the manufacturers recommendations with all of your loading.
That quote about your gunsmith....none of those guns were yours now were they????

Good questions? First, no, none were my rifles or pistols. Second, when compared other lots of RL-22 and velocities achived on the average the Lot that produce the good accuracy and High velocity had a 10% spread in load difference than one of the other lots of RL-22 I just mention, but they had the same velocity. Pressure was reached quicker with one than the other. The test days were under the same basic conditions, both mornings were at 85 degrees and Humidity was between 90-95%. What I enjoy beyond manufactures recommendations is enjoyed by many who know that since there is lot variations we start 10% below book max and work up from there and sometimes we don't reach book before stopping and sometimes we are able to go beyond book. But you would have to do a lot of reloading to know that and of course that takes time, money and attention which many are not willing to give it. Of course as some have said on this thread, nothing replaces experience. :)

[beartooth]

anecdotal evidence or not, lot to lot variation is real, though 10% seems high. i'd seek a different powder if i found such a variance. the hodgdon extreme powders are reputed to have minimal variance.

kind of difficult to say that accuracy was lacking on the lesser charge, when you're talking about .1 - .4" . three tenths of an inch could well be the shooter.

Yes, hodgdon has less variation but I have not been able in my 300WBY to produce the velocities and at the same time accuracy I want except with RL-22. Your point is well made. Also you are right in that the accuracy in the lesser load was not lacking much at all. I just try to get as small a group and high velocity under safe pressure conditions to give me as much advantage as I can. That is why I bought a fast cartridge. But you are right I could have done the job in the field with either load and you could have not known the difference. I just like to see what the best is I can get out of my load and stay within safe pressures. :)

[Huntsman27]

Good questions? First, no, none were my rifles or pistols. Second, when compared other lots of RL-22 and velocities achived on the average the Lot that produce the good accuracy and High velocity had a 10% spread in load difference than one of the other lots of RL-22 I just mention, but they had the same velocity. Pressure was reached quicker with one than the other. The test days were under the same basic conditions, both mornings were at 85 degrees and Humidity was between 90-95%. What I enjoy beyond manufactures recommendations is enjoyed by many who know that since there is lot variations we start 10% below book max and work up from there and sometimes we don't reach book before stopping and sometimes we are able to go beyond book. But you would have to do a lot of reloading to know that and of course that takes time, money and attention which many are not willing to give it. Of course as some have said on this thread, nothing replaces experience. :)
the "WE" you reference?

[beartooth]

the "WE" you reference?

There are friends of mine who shoot at the range with me and belong to the same shooting club who have reloaded through the years and we have traded data and results. If you tell me what you are looking for with your battery of questions maybe I can be even more specific.

[Huntsman27]

There are friends of mine who shoot at the range with me and belong to the same shooting club who have reloaded through the years and we have traded data and results. If you tell me what you are looking for with your battery of questions maybe I can be even more specific.
maybe you had a production line going.....wife, kids, grandkids reloading. My Grand daughter helps along with my youngest daughter [Veteran PD shooter]. Likes to load her own loads for her 22-250 and 243.

[QuakrTrakr]

maybe you had a production line going.....wife, kids, grandkids reloading. My Grand daughter helps along with my youngest daughter [Veteran PD shooter]. Likes to load her own loads for her 22-250 and 243.

My youngest wants to help, but she's a little young yet. She'll sit there and point out flaws in the cases!

[Huntsman27]

My youngest wants to help, but she's a little young yet. She'll sit there and point out flaws in the cases!
with shotshells for my trapshooting, then graduated to varmint ammo. Then we had the "Dad, I want to go" So, I bought her a 22-250 and 22 mag and 223 for her first PD trip, at age 9.
Consistently making 300-400 yard shots she figured it out quite easily. The kid borders a genius IQ [got that from the milkman I am sure] and has had all A grades since day one [all advanced classes....not some slacker in basket weaving]. Soooo, Dad hasnt had to explain much to the kid.
Now she uses the 22-250 and doesnt miss very often......cracks me up when people thing 300 yards is far....just nod at the daughter....she knows what to do.:lol:

[QuakrTrakr]

My youngest turns 6 in 2 weeks and she's getting a Daisy Red Ryder bb-gun. She already has one of those foam-ball shotguns and a Bear starter bow. I've already had her shooting my 17HMR. Hopefully she'll be a better shot than dad!

[beartooth]

My youngest turns 6 in 2 weeks and she's getting a Daisy Red Ryder bb-gun. She already has one of those foam-ball shotguns and a Bear starter bow. I've already had her shooting my 17HMR. Hopefully she'll be a better shot than dad!

I really like that. My daughter before she found boys, got married and had children would hunt with me in the dead of winter. I would tell her she could not talk until we went to lunch. Man when we got down from the tree she would not stop talking for a solid hour. She said one day when we got down,"Dad, where are the deer." She thought that just because we were in a tree stand the deer were just going to come out for us to shoot them. It sure was fun hunting with her. Now Jodan my grandson has taken her place and he really is a fine hunter. Killed his first deer last year and made a great shot using his 22-250 that I loaded with a 53gr TSX and he hit the deer in the heart lung area and the deer took three step and fell down. Man I love hunting and with Jordan it is even better. :D

[QuakrTrakr]

BT-Yup, kids are definately fun. Mine loves sitting in the tower blind watching for deer. And who say's kids can't sit still and be quiet for hours. Mine does. :)

[Enigma]

I'm looking forward to taking my son on the youth hunt this will be his first in fact im taking sisters two son's to it will we nice to see them all get there first bucks.with a weatherby of course.