Laminate Flooring

[skulldugary]

I am going to install 700sq.ft.of laminate flooring myself(Pergo,Shaw,Bruce).Just wondering if anyone else has installed it and if you had any tips on instalation,brands,pro's,cons ect...

[jpollman]

I've installed quite a bit of the stuff. (2500 s.f. on one job alone) About seven or eight years ago I had to install about 400 s.f. of Pergo for a customer. I followed the instructions to a T but couldn't get it to work. This was the glue together type. I ended up subbing out the install to someone else more experienced with the stuff. I watched them install it and they did it differently than the instructions called for and it came out fine. Luckily most of the laminate that they're selling today snaps together with no glue. :)

On that big 2500 s.f. job I kind of developed a technique that works very well and I've used it since and had no trouble. It's easy to do but kind of hard to explain here. When you get closer to the install if you're interested I can just PM you my phone number and we can talk. I can explain it to you much quicker and easier than it will be to type it out here.

One thing I can say is that I recommend getting the type that has the padding already attached to the back side of the flooring. It's much easier to deal with than having to lay down the padding and installing over the top of it. I've done it both ways and I greatly prefer the type with the backing already on the flooring.

Let me know and I'll send you my number.

Take care

John

[swampbuck]

I used kronotex which is the lowes brand. It ranked #3 on the consumer reports list I think. Check consumer reports. I am very satisfied.

I would recommend that you use a flooring that comes back apart easily. I had a peice get damaged shortly after I installed it. with the material I used I took up about 100+ sq. ft. replaced the damaged board and reinstalled it in a couple hours

[roger23]

my sister had it installed in her condo , Bruce nothing but problems chipping she now has solid wood no problems the contractor got tired of hearing from the law firm she works for . she had it replaced twice before the law firm got involved. at least she used a reputable contractor

[Bowslayer]

One thing I can say is that I recommend getting the type that has the padding already attached to the back side of the flooring. It's much easier to deal with than having to lay down the padding and installing over the top of it. I've done it both ways and I greatly prefer the type with the backing already on the flooring.
John
:yeahthat:Great reccomendation. Much easier!
I put Pergo in, about 600 sq. ft. and it was very easy. I've had it in for over a year and there is not a single scratch in it.(even with a 6 yr old kid) It took about 7 hours for three very inexperienced guys and about 18 beers. So, with a little understanding of how the stuff works and no beers you could probably get it done rather quickly. Make sure you have a high quality saw, with over 40 teeth, the more the better. The stuff can chip if the blade gets dull over time. Good luck.

[skulldugary]

Thanks for the replys guys.I'm going to check into it a little more and John thanks for the offer to call you,I may end up giving you a call..........Gary

[fishkram]

One tip i can provide. I installed the snap together stuff from Lowes. Once i snapped it, i had a hard time getting the ends of the board to slide together and had small gaps at the seams. I took it all apart again and started fresh. What i did this time was connect the ends of the board together first which makes a long run wall to wall. And then snap that whole section along the length side of the boards. Obviously, it is easier if you have a helper or 2 as it can be like working with a wet noodle. However, the seams were all tight and looked great.

I have now done 2 rooms in my house. The cheapest stuff is in my basement where it gets beat on by the kids. My initial thought is that the laminate is basically disposable and would be easier to replace than glued carpet. However, i have really impressed on on well it is holding up to the kids trucks/cars/toys/chair legs/etc. 3 yrs old and still looks great!!

I put some nicer looking stuff in a dinning room. Really changed the look of the room.

I purchased my padding from Ebay. I found it was cheaper than local pickup even with the extra cost for shipping. I would assume that the pad already installed on the flooring is ideal, but rolling out the pad was not a big deal for me.

Hope this helps.

[jpollman]

fishkram,

That problem is the one I solved in developing the technique I use when installing laminate. If you ever have to install it again and would like to know how I do it drop me a line an I'll explain it. It's easy and makes all of the seams nice and tight.

CYA

John

[FISHMANMARK]

If you take a piece of 3/4" thick oak, say 2 inches wide. Cut it the the same width as your laminate (I think mine was 5 inches). Place the block on the end of the laminate (make sure your holding it square, to keep from screwing up the end of your laminate), a few wacks with your hammer and you will have a snug joint.
It is alot easier to do, than it is to explain it.
Hope that helps.
Mark

[skulldugary]

Some good tips...thanks guys....

[jpollman]

If you take a piece of 3/4" thick oak, say 2 inches wide. Cut it the the same width as your laminate (I think mine was 5 inches). Place the block on the end of the laminate (make sure your holding it square, to keep from screwing up the end of your laminate), a few wacks with your hammer and you will have a snug joint.
It is alot easier to do, than it is to explain it.
Hope that helps.
Mark
OUCH!

Even with a tap block you've got a good chance of messing up either the piece that you're trying to install or the previous piece that you're trying to connect to. I've installed several different brands of the glueless locking type of laminate flooring. On all of them I did it the same way and it worked great. If you lock together the long side and try to snap together the short side (the end) you've got a good chance of breaking one or both of the pieces. Here's a brief overview of what I do.

Once you've got your first row down go to the right side end. (standing on the row you just laid and facing the portion of the floor still to be covered) Put the first piece in and lock it down. Then a couple inches from the left side of that piece (the part that is going to lock into the next piece you install) insert a flat bar. You know, one of those flat wrecking bars that are about a foot long and 1-1/2" wide with a nail puller on each end and the'yre slightly curved overall and a ninety degree bend on one end. Lay it down flat on the floor with the long gentle curve facing up and slide it under the piece you just installed. Raise it until it's about 2" above the floor. Then take the next piece and hold it up on an angle and connect the ends together. But hold the side closest to you about 3/8" away from making contact with the edge of the row you just laid. You will now see that the ends connect nice and clean and the joints will just about line up but be offset about 3/8" or so. Then lower the new board until it's about flat. Now the end sections will be tightly joined but the long joint will not be quite together yet. This is where you use a tapping block. I start near the right side of the new board and lay the tapping block on the lip of the piece and tap it with a rubber mallet. The piece will then click together fairly easily. Then move down about 1/3 to 1/2 way down the board and repeat. Usually at this point when you tap it the rest of the joint will seat tightly. Then just slide the flat bar out and repeat the process.

I know this seems a little complicated and it's tough to explain quickly. But once you've done it several times it works very easily and hasn't failed me yet. By doing it this way it makes it easy to join the end joints and because the previous piece is held up at a slight angle it helps line up the long side so you can tap it together. Yes you do need to use a tapping block but because the piece is up on an angle it snaps together much easier than if you try to drive them together when both pieces are laying flat on the floor. The angle allows them to lock together much more easily.

If anyone reading this is considering doing an install and would like more detailed information just send me a PM and I'll give you my phone number and you can give me a call. I can explain it on the phone much better and quicker than writing it out here.

Take care

John

[UNREEL]

Stay away from anything Lowes or Home Depot has. Pergo brand is absolute garbage, Bruce is right up there with them. And those are the more expensive brands. All flooring in those store are factory seconds, which mean quality is less than in a real flooring store. Stop by your nearest carpet/flooring place and see what they have. I strongly recommend the brand Alloc, above and beyond anything on the market. They have different price ranges. from $1.50 per sq. ft up to $6.00. However, their cheapest stuff is far better than the others. In fact, I use it exclusivley, and when a homeowner wants something else I amost always sell them on Alloc. This stuff goes together so fast and easy, almost no effort. Most other brands, Pergo, Armstrong, Bruce, and Mannington can be difficult to snap in place, and almost always have to be squared up with the tap block, as mentioned above. Since I started using it, I havent touched my tap block. Also, be sure and leave at least 1/4" gaps around the edges for expansion. I almost always go 3/8 to 1/2", then trim with quarter round, baseboard, or both.

[back2spool]

A GOOD pull bar goes along way in getting end-joints to come together, definitely worth the investment and make sure it has a pad on the underside to prevent scratching, I still put a thing rag under even though mine had one.

I also second the motion of buying the stuff with the padding on the underside.

Finally, have a little wood glue on hand for those closet corners that were such a b--ch.

Lastly, don't "fall in love" with the pull bar, the glue, or any other "secret," the stuff is supposed to go together by hand so try to do it that way before using tools/methods.

[Pork Chop]

You'll find you have pretty much prefected your technique as you install your last few pieces.

[outdooralex]

I'm getting ready to do my kitchen floor. I have already bought my flooring (from Sams Club) and I am ripping my linolium(sp) out now. My question is, is there a secret in offsetting the rows from one another. Or is it personal preference on how you want it to look. I have a couple cubby holes where my fridge goes and some closets. I'm just wondering how to go about doing those and getting the seams to look consistent over the whole floor. Or am I worring to much about it. Thanks!!

[FISHMANMARK]

If your like me and don't like alot of scrap or waste. Use the waste from the end of 1 row as your starter for the next. If you figured 10% waste when you bought your material, you will be able to return a couple of boxes. (depending on the size of your room) Good Luck, it is about the easiest home improvment project there is...

[jpollman]

That's the way I do it. When I finish a row, the piece that I cut off starts the next row unless it's very short. It eliminates a lot of waste.

I've installed several brands and they all worked pretty well. I have to disagree with one opinion here though. I installed 125 boxes of the Dupont Elite laminate flooring on one job alone. It worked very well and I had no complaints with it. The nice part about that stuff is it's size. It's about 12" wide and 48" long so you're installing almost four square feet with every full piece. This past winter I installed about 500 square feet of stuff that was bought at Sam's Club and it went down fine also and looked good when I was done.

John

[outdooralex]

I bought a blade for my jigsaw that said it was for hardwood flooring. Is this good or is there one for laminate flooring? I got from Home Depot.

[FISHMANMARK]

Jig saw blade??? I hope it is better than anything I've seen.... Chop saw with a good blade (60 tooth or better). Same for the table saw when cutting rips along the walls. Unless your a hell of a lot luckier than I, you will have rips the full length of the wall you finish with. You have to remember, you need to leave spacing along the walls for movement, depending on what type for baseboard your using you may not have much room for error (using a jigsaw), thats why I suggest a table saw if you have one available. Sure would suck to have to use 2X4's for baseboard to cover up any blade wandering with a jigsaw.

[jpollman]

I've installed quite a bit of laminate flooring and discovered early on that this stuff EATS even standard carbide blades. It will destroy a carbide circular saw blade in short order. The aluminum oxide that they use in the wear layer just dulls the heck out of a blade. Freud makes a blade specifically designed for cutting laminate flooring. I bought one and it works great but it's about $80. It's very fine toothed and has a special tooth grind or something that gives you a nice smooth chip-free cut. One other thing I've found that works very well is a Roto-Zip tool with the circular blade attachment. I did two rooms worth of flooring with one blade and it was about shot though.

John

[skulldugary]

I have a chop saw and a table saw,all set there...just wondering what kind of life you can expect out of some the flooring you guys have installed.On a complete remodel would you install kitchen cabneys first or go ahead and put the flooring down first.I have no plans on changing the flooring once it's down,what your opinion?

[jpollman]

I'm not positive but pretty sure that the Dupont Master Elite series that I installed on that big job carries a 25 year warranty. I ended up doing almost the entire first floor, the entire second floor, and two stairways with the stuff. I'd install the cabinets first and then do the flooring. There's a lot less chance of damaging the floor that way. If you install the flooring first you've got to be much more careful moving things around while installing the cabinets.

Just my preference but I'm sure you'll get other ideas.

John

[Rumajz]

If your flooring is really thick (real hardwood, tile over durock etc.) do the floor first. If you set the cabinets first you might end up having a really hard time getting the dishwasher in or out from under the countertop (again unless you set the cabinets on some plywood of similar thickness as your planned flooring).

If, however, your flooring is around 1/2" or less (which most laminates are) then I would definitely go with above mentioned advise. Everything will go a lot faster if you don't have to worry about damaging your flooring. Don't forget to acclimate your flooring (A/C running, dehumidifiers etc.).

Good luck

[outdoor junkie]

To install laminate flooring. The biggest key is to have the proper saw blades. If not you will chip corners and have some rough looking cuts. I would also recommend buying the stuff with the padding attached to the back of it. Don't be scared to install Bruce or Pergo as someone stated earlier. They both make a fine product, and the stuff they sell at Lowes and home depot are the same ones you'll find at a flooring store, probably a little cheaper too. I installed Pergo from Lowes in my mothers house three years ago, and she has three huge dogs and a few grandkids, and it still looks great. But if it were me, I would spend a few extra dollars and go with hardwood. I just didhalf of my house last week in Bamboo, and we love the look of it. Good luck, it will make a big difference in the look of your home.

[FISHMANMARK]

I have a chop saw and a table saw,all set there...just wondering what kind of life you can expect out of some the flooring you guys have installed.On a complete remodel would you install kitchen cabneys first or go ahead and put the flooring down first.I have no plans on changing the flooring once it's down,what your opinion?

I would say it is a lot easier to put the floor down then cabinets. Just tape cardboard to the "high traffic" areas until you are done. I'll throw out 1 thing for you to keep in mind. I first installed the floor (800 sq ft, rectangle), I built my bar in place, tapcon'ed it through the laminate into the concrete floor. The problem was that after the bar was solid, the flooring could only expand in 1 direction, which caused it to bind on the opposite wall causing a "hump" in the floor. Then I had to borrow an undercut saw, pull the base board, undercut the 3/4" tongue and groove pine, clean up, re-assemble. Pain in the a**. Keep that in mind, whichever way you decide to go...

[jpollman]

That is another good point that I hadn't even thought about. Basically now that Mark brought it up you should NOT install the flooring first. If you were doing hardwood I'd say that would be OK. But when doing laminate you should install the cabinets first and then the floor. The reason is that the laminate floor is a "floating floor" and doesn't physically attach to the sub floor. It floats on top and is allowed to expand and contract. You MUST leave an expansion gap on all sides of the floor. If you were to install the floor first, you would have the weight of all the cabinets on the floor which would interfere with the ability of the floor to expand and contract.

Do yourself a favor and do NOT install the flooring before you install the cabinets! Thanks for bringing up that point Mark.

John

[FISHMANMARK]

That is another good point that I hadn't even thought about. Basically now that Mark brought it up you should NOT install the flooring first. If you were doing hardwood I'd say that would be OK. But when doing laminate you should install the cabinets first and then the floor. The reason is that the laminate floor is a "floating floor" and doesn't physically attach to the sub floor. It floats on top and is allowed to expand and contract. You MUST leave an expansion gap on all sides of the floor. If you were to install the floor first, you would have the weight of all the cabinets on the floor which would interfere with the ability of the floor to expand and contract.

Do yourself a favor and do NOT install the flooring before you install the cabinets! Thanks for bringing up that point Mark.

John

I sure am glad my pain could help someone out... I always seem to learn the hard way!
Mark

[Reel_Screamer86]

Hey Skulldegary: PM me i do it for a living and have done it since Pergo came out with it... I might be able to help you out with the installation and what to purchase to get the most for your money.........:D

[skulldugary]

Thanks,Screamer and John for the offers for pointers on the flooring.When I get ready to do it I'll give ya a shout.......


Gary