Law Enforcement Boarding Documented Vessels

[SabikiRig]

Since this thread has been closed: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193764

Here is a question I have as this came up in a conversation with some friends a few months back:

You have a Documented Vessel and a Conservation Officer, County Sheriff or Local PD Marine Patrol stop you on the Great Lakes (not inland lakes) and ask to board your boat can you decline the boarding and request the USCG to board instead?

(Documented Vessel: Federal Registration of Boat longer than 26 Foot weighing at least five net tons wholly owned by a citizen of the United States)

[roger23]

I don't know what the law says but I always let them I had nothing to hide,I was treated fine they would not say what they were looking for I do know all the information was put in a computer.I guess I could have made them call the coast guard but who knows how long that would have taken

[wally-eye]

If you're in Michigan waters they can board at their whim...................

Never bothered me before and I have been boarded several times. I don't have anything to hide........

[alex-v]

But, the question deals with a boat 26 feet or longer and not any boat shorter.

By my way of thinking the Coast Guard is not going to get involved in a scenario like you are describing "SabikiRig" as they would try to argue that it is inland waters and not part of the coastal waters that they have control over.

They might be more than willing to help on a Search & Rescue on an inland lake or river but would probably come up with a reason to refuse to do the boarding.

[jakeo]

And this continues???????
HMMMMMMMMM
I Would have sworn this was a CLOSED subject!!!!

[puttputt]

Actually, I learned quite a bit from the closed thread and this one.

And, as far as I am concerned, the CG, Sheriff, FBI, CIA, and whoever else can board my boat anytime... as long as they don't exceed the weight limit. :)


These folks are looking for drug traffickers and terrorists (primarily), I do believe. If you're fishing and not doing anything illegal, you should welcome them aboard. They are protecting us.

[Lucky Dog]

can you decline the boarding and request the USCG to board instead?

No.

[SabikiRig]

No.

Lucky Dog,

I had wanted to ask this question in the other thread but did not have the opportunity since it was closed.

Just like Roger and Wall-eye, I have no problems with a Law Enforcement Official boarding my boat.

That is what I needed to know and confirms my answer which was correct. Obviously my friend has misconceptions in regards to a Federally Documented of a Vessel.


JakeO,

Actually my question is much different when compared to the other one that was closed.

What is different? The vessel in question is larger than 26 foot, heavier than 5 net tons and is Federally Registered.

[boehr]

No, can't refuse. A documented vessel is still required by state law to be registered in the state and follow state laws. CO's, deputies (enforce state law) as USCG (enforce federal law) are all law enforcement on the lakes and all have "same" authority to check vessels. The only type of vessel that you might see the USCG messing with and not a deputiy or CO is a commercial vessel like that of a freighter involved in interstate commerce.

[malainse]

;) More info here....


http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/vdoc/faq.htm

[SabikiRig]

The only type of vessel that you might see the USCG messing with and not a deputiy or CO is a commercial vessel like that of a freighter involved in interstate commerce.


Thanks Boehr,

Maybe that is where my friend got the idea....

[Ferg]

Ray is obsolutly correct - you can not refuse or differ to the CG a boarding in which that state as concurrent jurisdictions -

ferg....

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

of course you can REFUSE! but all thats going to do is make them tear the dog snot out of your VESSEL. have you ever seen a pissed off LEO do a search? I LOVE IT, they will take every nut and bolt apart for you and then you can play a game called PUT IT ALL BACK TOGETHER AGAIN, and they don't PLAY THAT PART, just you. if you told me NO and i was on the force not only would i do a search on the water (if thats where you told me no) but i would have that vessel back at dock, brought out of the water and pro ceed to have a drug/bomb dog sniff it out and if he hit ON ANYTHING that boat would become unreconizable in a complete dismantle and search.

[boehr]

We are not talking about a search, we are talking about an inspection. If there was probable cause to search a vessel, like a car, it does fall into the search warrant exceptions but again this discussion is about inspections which mainly deal with safety of the people using that particular boat. Two different topics.

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

MAYBE I'AM WRONG, but what i read is permission to board that vessel, not anything about inspection???? any denial for a LEO to board would turn into a very interesting situation for the captain of that vessel in about 10 nano seconds i would think. once again i read nothing about a vessel inspection just the ability to refuse a LEO to board that vessel. A DENIAL in it self would send up all kinds of RED FLARES TO ME besides being a very stupid thing to do ( if you have nothing to hide).

[boehr]

Well Dan, try reading the link in the first post and you will find out what we are talking about.:)

As I stated above, to search a vessel probable cause would be needed. An LEO can not board a vessel just because they want to for a search. Anyway this is getting off track because we are not talking about search.

[roger23]

having had a documented boat a 28 ft Baha used as a charter part time.the inspection is not a search... BUT the things they inspect amounts to what is almost a search ,,,fire system .bilge & blowers ,head and discharge. If some one would have some thing to hide this is not the boat to hide it on . also we saw the coast guard inspect a charter the boat was ok . a customer got nasty with them they were good about it ,and the captain was able to keep it under control by telling the others to keep him shut up or it is back to the dock. a few minutes the DNR showed up for a license check . a few minutes later a Sheriff boat showed up one of the guys had wants and warrants. don't know the end results but they removed the guy from the boat.I don't know how they knew this guy was wanted but they did .I guess it was domestic?

[boehr]

An inspection is looking for items on a vessel that you are required to have.

A search is looking for items that are illegal to have.

Can an inspection turn into a search, yes it can if while checking for requirements needed on a vessel illegal items are seen in plain view like a bag of marijuana on the drivers seat for example. Then you might get to experience first hand the difference between a inspection and a search.

As for the guy that had wants and warrants, that is why it isn't good when one decides to ignore traffic/hunting/fishing/other tickets/charges when they get into trouble.:lol:

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

you are correct the first post that was CLOSED was about inpections and how many times it can be done. the second post as i alluded to, made the statement of JUST BOARDING. HOWEVER, the poster may have meant inspection,BUT he only stated BOARD which are 2 totally different lines of thought. on the one hand we have a specific intent (inspection). then on the second line of thought, there is complete refusal of being allowed to BOARD. THAT is where i came in with the extremely P.O. LEO'S who will board and then do an inspection per say which will without a shadow of dought do an extremely thorough inspection with all eyes paying even closer attention to everything. not to mention a quick wants and warrant search. which one can assume may lead to reasonable belief and/or probable cause, which in turn will go to a magistrate or judge for issue of paperless search warrant at that time.
as i don't know the protocol of civilian law, i do know the protocol of the UCMJ AND ITS 132 ARTICLES OF JUSTICE which i practiced in years gone by and that is what you will recieve from my brothers in arms the US COAST GUARD. thanks for your patience

[SabikiRig]

MAYBE I'AM WRONG, but what i read is permission to board that vessel, not anything about inspection???? any denial for a LEO to board would turn into a very interesting situation for the captain of that vessel in about 10 nano seconds i would think. once again i read nothing about a vessel inspection just the ability to refuse a LEO to board that vessel. A DENIAL in it self would send up all kinds of RED FLARES TO ME besides being a very stupid thing to do ( if you have nothing to hide).

Daniel,

I think we all know what the repercussions would be from declining such a "search". Please take a look at the Subject Line of this post, it clearly states the word "Boarding" not "search".

Like I said, this topic came up between myself and a couple of friends a few months ago. Since this board was started I finally had an opportunity to ask it in hopes of not being slammed......

Here is an interesting read about this on another site. Maybe I should have spared everyone the drama and not posted my question.

http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=104059&whichpage=1

PLease read the last reply on page 1:

"One of the benifits to having a documented vessel...... only a federal agency can board your vessel without you permission.

You would probably be up the creek though if you didn't give the local people permission to board your boat. What the locals would do is call the feds have them board you and then board you themselves when the feds oked them. Because you know they would find something that is a violation. Anyone have a sheen in their bilge?"

[SabikiRig]

Here is also a PDF document published by the USCG regarding boarding and boarding protocol:

http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/NavInfo/navinfo/documents/Enforcement.PDF

If I am not mistaken the USCG officer will present you a Boarding Report after each boarding. A Yellow Copy of the report will be issued to you if there are NO warnings or violations. A white copy of the report will be issued to you should there be a warning or violation

[BGB]

In both cases where I have been boarded, I was issued a white copy of the report that resembled a cash register receipt. I was not cited for anything either time. (thanks to a thread I read here about expired flares a week before the first boarding)

This week end when they hailed me over for the third time this season, they waived me on when I showed them my last inspection report.

[Ferg]

This week end when they hailed me over for the third time this season, they waived me on when I showed them my last inspection report.

As I would expect, and likely will continue the rest of the season -

ferg....

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

SABIKIRIG, just exactly how do you think searchs become searchs? lets see, hmmm 1. an inspection 2. a boarding 3. or a flat out ongoing investigation on a individual, and on and on. like i said ONE THING LEADS TO ANOTHER. someone smells some weed, someone sees something (a bunch off empty beer cans ,a joint, some rolling papers and a couple of seeds on the deck or even some empty brass), someone over hears someone say somethng (get rid of the weed or bag or even the word hide the), or even someone tells an officer something all of these things and more can come out of number 1&2. just to make it SIMPLE there are numerous situations which i won't even begin to go into that can make a simple inspection or boarding turn into a search, it would take 100 pages to start with and that isn't going to happen.
USE YOUR IMAGINATION!

[boehr]

This has become off topic and the question ask has been answered.