Shotgun suggestions?

[Linda G.]

Just sold one of my O/U's that only shot 2 3/4 inch shells...time to get a real waterfowling gun...up til now have been using my Winchester 1300 12, but it will only shoot 3 inch and 2 and 3/4 inch shells, I want something I can load 3 and 1/2's in...

recoil is not a particularly huge issue, but I will put a good recoil pad on it...

price IS an issue, I'm just a starving outdoor writer.

What does everyone think would be a good gun for me...weight is not as important when waterfowling as it is when upland bird hunting or turkey hunting, but it's still an issue. I handle them better, get them up to my shoulder faster, etc., if they're lighter...

what do you all think of the Benelli Nova pump model?

and how much do they run...

Linda

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Recoil might not be a factor now, but it might once you start running a 3 1/2" shell through your gun. Some of the best deals in 3 1/2 " chambered guns are in the pumps: Remington 870, Mossberg 835, Browning BPS. I love my Remington 870....I have two of them. The Browning has some nice features: top tang saftey and bottom ejection (both nice if you are a southpaw); personally, I just don't like the way they swing....feels like I'm swinging a fence post, for some reason.
If money is an issue (and for most of us it is!), don't overlook the used gun market....sometimes you can find some good deals and get more gun than you originally thought you could afford. The last 5 guns I bought were all used, and I have had no regrets; check out the pawn shops and newspaper adds in your area. If semiautos are an option (and they will help cut down on recoil), I beleive Remington has introduced it's 11-87 in 3 1/2", and the Berretta 391 gets high ratings from a lot of waterfowlers.

As for prices, check out this site: www.gunsamerica.com
it will give you an idea as to prices for various firearms.

Personally, I have never seen the need for anything bigger than an 3" shell for waterfowling.....I've always felt that if you needed more, you would be better served with a 10 gauge...just MHO. Good luck with your quest....new guns are always fun!

[michiduck]

Another option in the mid price range for a semi-auto would be the Winchester Super X 2... Made in the same factory as the Browning Gold and is the same gun without the extra features which make a gun a "Browning" (speed load, magazine cut off etc) but the internal workings are the exact same, and the price tag is $100 or more less (although Browning is running a rebate on the Golds now). I know I wouldn't trade mine for any gun out there But to each their own and you gotta go with what fits you personally.

Good luck in your search for the perfect Fowl swattin stick... and let us know what you decide on :)

[Shoveler]

Linda

A Nova runs about $350.00 for the black synthetic to around $450.00 for a camo version, prices do very. On another waterfowl site people like them with a few negative comments. The nova has an optional recoil reducer that can be added. I am not sure of the price and do not know how well it works.

Been seeing good postings on a Baikal (Russian) 12 ga 3 1/2 inch semi auto. However the steel shot rating is my question on the gun. Prices are in the $390.00 range.

If the thought is 3 1/2 for geese, Hevi shot does a number on them in a 3" hull.

Good Luck

Shoveler

[Linda G.]

I've found traditionally have been much heavier firearms...until I tried out the Browning Gold my buddy owns. Beautiful piece of work, and not that heavy. But I had all kinds of trouble racking the shells out of it when unloading, and it seemed to jam easily, something you can't tolerate when the ducks are flying. Perhaps it was because the gun was almost new, and not really broken in, I don't know, but I don't like fighting with a gun. He didn't like it, either, owned it less than a year, now he wants to sell it because he won a Benelli Super Black Eagle at a DU banquet...

I read about that recoil reducer option with the Nova...my Winchester does fine on ducks and geese, but I had thought that the 3 and 1/2 inch option might help me to reach out and touch some of those birds at borderline range...45-50 yards...particularly for hard-flying divers.

Linda

[Big Frank 25]

Does the 3.5" reach further than a 2.75"? I don't think so. More pellets? Yes.
How many more than a 3"? Not many. After the initial investment of the gun you still have to pay for the shells.

I've been using a 2.75" for a bunch of years over dekes and I'm pleased with the results.
Like Trout says let them come close. Holds for all of us, no matter what shell size we shoot. Those 50 yard shots at birds that don't make it into range, only helps to reinforce the education they been have given.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

The remington 1187 in 3 1/2 inch is a good buy with out the recoil of a pump or o/u. I've never seen a problem with the new 1187's. Easy to unload break down and clean and if you get black synthetic it won't be pretty but if it ever rusts you just wipe the surface rust rite off.
If there ever is one remington is very customer service orientated.
I agree with some of the opinons about the advantage of 3 1/2 being minimal but there is an advantage. If you do the home work and get the rite chock/load combo you want that gun will reach out and touch them..

[Shoveler]

Going with Big Frank 25 and Trout. Velocity is velocity. Best to let the ducks work in close.

Shoveler

[Canadian Hunter]

If you want the 3.5" just too extend your range on diver's, forget it!!! There is just too much kick in those shell's to be letting fly on divers all day long!

I use an 3" 870, 2 buddies use 3.5" 870's the only time they load theyre guns with 3.5's is when we are goose hunting. I load mine with tungsten matrix for geese, no difference in range and the T-M hits alot harder!

If I were to buy a new duckgun, I think I'd be looking for a good used 1187. If you are like me it would be foolish to buy a fancy duckgun, I want something that will take the abuse and will function properly!

[FREEPOP]

Linda, I'm not positive about this but I think it's worth investigating. The difference between the 2 & 3/4 and the 3" is minimal because the maximum chamber pressures are about the same. You get more pellets in the three inch but the velocity will be slower than the 2 & 3/4. This is because the same amount of powder is pushing a heavier load, thus the heavier push on the shooter (ie. for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction). I don't know if the chamber pressures on the 3 & 1/2 are capable of being higher but I thought you might want to investigate.

[Big Frank 25]

This may help. http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/shotshell/steelbal.htm

[Linda G.]

Thanks, guys, I really appreciate the helpful thoughts and advice...oddly enough, I've never had any trouble knocking down field geese, course, they're always about 2 feet away when I shoot, too...;

I just thought that a 3 and 1/2 inch chambered shotgun might improve my shooting on 500 mph divers that are pretty spooky by mid-November...I can remember a canvasback or two last November that was pretty spooky, too.;)

And that redhead...arrgggh

I may take another look at the 870's and 1187's...

thanks!

Linda

[TSS Caddis]

Linda, I think the most important thing is the fit of the gun, weight and functionality.

Over the last 20 years of duck hunting on Sag. Bay I've used every thing from a Winchester pump, Browning Upland Light A6(not very light as the name would imply) and a 870. For the past 5 years I've been using a Benelli Super 90. I had originally started looking into the S.B.E. but the Super 90 felt a lot better to me. That Super 90 is extremely light and easy to handle not to mention it can be stripped down to the firing pin in under 30 seconds. Since it is so easy to break down it is easier to keep cleaned unlike the Brownings and is a lot more reliable then the other semi auto's on the market

I hate to say it but when buying a gun you should never skimp. Most people use the heck out of their waterfowl guns so you have to think of it as an investment. I guess I'd rather hunt with a gun that I am not happy with for 3 years while I save up then settle for one I have the money for and not be truely happy.

To save money give Gun's Galore in Fenton a call and check prices with them. I think I saved around $170 on my Super 90 over Jay's and just saved $200 on my Weatherby over the local Gander Mountain.

As far as 2 3/4's vs. 3.5's? You won't find a tougher duck in North America then Eider's and on a couple trips to Maine where some of my buddies were shooting 3.5's, I had just as much luck shooting 2 3/4's. I think if you can't bring them down with 2 3/4's that 3.5's are not going to give you much more of an edge.

Gun's are all personal preference. Do as much research as possible on what is important to you in a gun and worry about the price later.

[FREEPOP]

TSScaddis is right. A wise man once told me, that if you're going to make an investment make sure it is exactly what you want. Otherwise you're just wasting your money. Maybe at the gun range you could borrow a friends or aquitences gun, you supply the shells, for a round of clays. Seek and yea shall find.

[Big Frank 25]

By all means get what you want. Just get something that allows you to get out in front of them divers! :D

[goosewa]

Linda,

I retired my 15 year old 870 to a backup gun at the end of the 1999-2000 season. (It is now the only gun that I take to hunt Canada.) I bought two new shotguns at the beginning of last season. One was Beretta Pintail ES100 SemiAuto and the other one was a Benelli Nova Pump. Think I paid $350 for the Nova and $529 for the Pintail.

I shot over 8 cases through the Pintail and I think 2 or 3 through the Nova. Both are extremely nice shotguns. Benelli sells the recoil compensator for the Nova pump but to be quite honest you really do not need to spend the $50 for it. Recoil is not bad even shooting 3.5's. You will like the magazine cutoff which allows you change the shells in the magazine without totally unloading the gun. VERY NICE FOR CHANGING SHELLS WHEN THE DUCKS START FLYING......

No need to purchase sling mounts like you would with an 870 or 1100. The Nova already has the mounts on the gun. And not to mention that it also has one of those Hi-Vis Neon Sights with a nice thick vent rib to disappate the heat from the barrel. (If you like them.) This is a working gun that was designed to be punished. Wether it be in a layout boat on Lake Erie or shooting Honkers in a muddy corn field.

If your interested in a nice automatic try taking a look at the Pintail ES100. It is Interia Operated rather than gas and is chambered to shoot 2.75" and 3" shells. I believe that the Browning Golds, Rem 11xx's are gas operated. This gun has the same action as the Benelli Super 90/M1 and the SBE. I favor the Interia Recoil rather than Gas because there are no seals to go bad and cause ejection problems.

I would say go a store/shop and shoulder each of the guns that your interested in. Buy the one that feels comfortable. I will tell you once you shoulder a NOVA compared to an 870. You will buy the 870. The Heel and Comb on the Nova feel much more comfortable (at least for me).

For layout shooting I prefer my automatic. Especially if your in a 2 man boat. There are not alot of left handed shooters around that I hunt with. It always seems like I am hitting elbows with who ever I am sitting a rotation with in the layout.

By the way, if your interested in an excellent handloaded shell. I would be more than happy to give you the number to Palm's Sporting Ammo. He loads a very nice shell. We ended up buying 12 cases of 3" #3's and 3" #4's. They really do a number on Bills and Redhead's that land just outside the last main line of decoys. This will be almost 2 years that I have not shot a factory loaded shell. There is a night and day difference.

God........ talking about layout shooting in June. Reminds me about talking about Handlining the Trenton Channel when I am duck hunting. Now I can hardly wait for this upcoming duck season.

-Goosewa

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Linda;
If you haven't read it already, I highly reccomend the book SHOTGUNING: THE ART & THE SCIENCE, by Bob Brister(Winchester press). Even though this book was published in 1976, it is still a treasure trove of information, esp. where long range shooting is concerned. It has convinced me (along with other information) that we should NOT be taking 50 yard shots at waterfowl.....the chances of a miss (or worse, a cripple) go up exponentially after 35-40 yards (thats for a MEASURED yardage).

As some have stated, let the birds work close....a 3 1/2" gun will not get you any more distance; what it may get you is more shot (i.e. a denser pattern) or higher velocity for the shot charge you wish over a 3" shell (but the trade off is more recoil).

As for more shot....I did a little math: lets say you chose #2 shot for ducks (a reasonable choice). If you went with a 3 1/2" shell with 1 9/16oz of #2 shot, you would get a whopping 23 more pellets than a 3" shell with a 1 3/8oz load of the same size shot. Go to BB shot for geese, and you only get 14 more pellets with the bigger shell.
As for velocity, if you pick the high velocity loading (with a smaller shot charge) over the standard loading, the 3 1/2" has some merit (1450 fps) as opposed to 1265 fps in the 3". However, if you went with a 1 9/16 charge in the 3 1/2, your velocity drops to 1265 fps. And the Remington catalog, where I got some of this data, shows only BB listed for shot sizes for the higher velocity 3 1/2 load.

I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much for you.....good luck with your choice (buying new guns is always fun:) )

..........or, you can just do what I do: get a plain old 16 gauge and load it up with some tungsten matrix or bismuth handloads.:D

[Blackeagle]

I'd recomend the Nova to you as a good gun for waterfowling. A friend of mine has one and does quite well with it. As to the 3.5" shell I think you'll find that the high speed loading will serve you the best. I have had no problems getting them in BB, 1, 2 sizes. And with the Nova if you find the recoil is a problem for you it is made to take a recoil reducer. Best of luck to you.

[Old Hunter]

Linda, I have been using the Browning Gold Stalker for 5 years now and have never had it jam, but I do keep it clean,maybe that could be trouble if not clean and not to much oil on the ejector and the gas piston.

[Camo Man]

I would go with the Nova or if you decide on an auto with the SBE. I think they are both the finest guns in their class. I use the SBE with the mercury recoil reducer and a gel pad. The recoil is very insignificant even with 3 1/2" Winchester Supremes. :)

[Lunker]

I own a used Mossberg 500A I got it for 200 with 3 chokes a sling , highrise scope, and a box of slugs. So far its taken 2 deer Lots of rabbits, Lots of bird, and lots of clay pigeons. . I can shoot 3" . My buddy shot and dropped 2 big bucks with his Remington 870 auto and they both got up and ran away. The year before that his jammed up. His Dad has a Mossberg and took 2 bucks in 2 shots. I dropped my 6 point at 80 plus,yards on the run up hill, with a remington premium slug. I d spend more money on premium ammo than anything.
If I did want another gun it would be a Browning ,I wouldnt turn down a good used one at a great price but cheapo Mossbergs will get you by just fine. I have a Bearpaw recoil pad that slips on got for 6 bucks, my shoulder and the 2 deer didnt seem to mind if it was stock with the gun or not.
Have fun

Lunker

[Firetiger]

Hey linda, good post, right on time for the waterfowl season, Remember you get what you pay for, I have shot about everything out there and I have been using the M-1 field benelli in 3 inch for years, I shoot 2's at geese and 4's at ducks, I have bad days like most, but generally I don't have any trouble taking my share, the Buffer spring in the Benelli reduces recoil to nothing. Three inch shells don't have much "Kick" but the recoil reduction system allows for a slightly quicker second and third shot.. I have hunted with a lot of fellow hunters who hunt 3.5 inch w/hevi shot and have to admit that they can knock down birds and extended ranges, but I think the increased crip rate negates any advantage and I know I can get three, 3 inch 4's out quicker than anyone shooting 3.5 's,, And I wouldn't recommend a pump for divers for the same reason.

[lwingwatcher]

Ton of good info in this thread.

Now my two cents...

Hunted with my A-5 Mag for 35 years, still kills them. I prefer an auto for ducks but, I am gonna try my new O/U with 20" tubes in a layout this fall. Should be fast to get on target.

On the shell thing, 3.5's seem like a waste. I have two and the only thing I would think of buying shells for is turkey blastin and maybe late season geese.

Maybe you can get the opportunity somehow to shoot a bunch of waterfowling pieces. Last year at a Fuge get together, there were a ton of guns and that is exactly what everybody did--shot them.
It was more of, hey, lemme shoot that than bust clays. It was a great opportunity to get the real feel. Promises to be the same thing this year.

[goose hunter]

Linda, I have had the 1400 Winchester 2 3/4" since I was a youngster. I recently recieved a 1187 Remington 3 1/2". It handles good and I have had good shooting with it. I hunt with many other hunters over the year. The Remingtons have shown me a lot. The SBE shooters have had many complaints and the Nova shooters few. With the new Hevi-shot there is no need to go over the 2 3/4". With the steel [what I shoot] it has benifits. I would go to a good gun dealer and hold all of them. It could be the last shotgun you will ever need. Make an educated decission try them all. The 3 1/2" 870 has many fans also. Sold cheap, but holds up well to the pounding of the magnums. You have alot of choices. Hope you make the right one. I'm sure you will notice a difference the first flock of geese that come in. The recoil is only noticed when you are target shooting. Hardly ever when the birds are the target. Good luck and good hunting.

[hibrass]

First timer here so go easy on me.

Linda,
Shotguns are like good dogs, you usually only own one really good one in your lifetime. I've shot pumps, O/U, and autos for waterfowl. I used to think a pump was the only way to go given the harsh conditions during the late season. I did find however that I lost time on second and third shots. If your usually killing birds close in I guess its not a factor. But the conditions vary based on hunting pressure, weather, and time of season. The O/U is nice because nothing mounts and swings like one. The third shot can be an issue though. Then theres the autos. I've owned both gas and mechanical.

I currently own a Benelli S.B.E. and an M190. I love them both especially the S.B.E. because it swings similar to my O/U and it cycles anything I want it to all of the time. I've owned it for 6 years now and it finally broke last summer shooting skeet. Simple fix, broken ejector pin. Given what I put that gun through I did not blame it for breaking. It cycled allot of rounds before going down. As far as cold weather goes, its not a factor for this gun. I've even dunked in the bay and never had to head to the dock. I agree with those who feel you should never skimp on a firearm purchase. I've tried it and found myself dissapointed in the end.

The most important factor (regardless of brand) is you should allow yourself the option of shooting the load needed given your hunting situation. I hunt the open waters of Saginaw Bay and usually go 3" early on puddlers and close working divers. Once the migration kicks I usually go with (2) 3" followed by a 3 1/2. The birds are tougher and wiser. I cant tell you how many times that last 3 1/2 has taken a bird for me. I do think (as with any gun) choke tube selection is critical as well as settling on a brand and load of ammo. Briley makes a nice Light-Modified tube that fits me perfect. I use it for everything. Again, I think its the option of the 3 1/2 thats nice.

My recommendation: Benelli S.B.E. with 26" barrel - synthetic all the way. Not much to look at but comes out of the box swinging.