Another call for help with hand-driven well...

[Liv4Huntin']

We have decided we need water 'at the property' for tree watering. Is there anyone with experience hand driving a shallow well (we think 20-25 feet max) in the Battle Creek/Nashville area that would be willing to hire out or 'trade' ? We only want a hand pump, like at the primitive camping areas, and we're 'totally green' with this.

Thanks.
~ m ~

[sjhawkeye]

We have decided we need water 'at the property' for tree watering. Is there anyone with experience hand driving a shallow well (we think 20-25 feet max) in the Battle Creek/Nashville area that would be willing to hire out or 'trade' ? We only want a hand pump, like at the primitive camping areas, and we're 'totally green' with this.

Thanks.
~ m ~

Liv4huntin, I put a well in on my property 3 years ago and didn't know anything about it either. However, after doing it myself, there isn't really any way to screw up.

I would suggest the metal point and pipe vs the pvc.

Just pick a low spot, dig your starting hole about 3-4 feet, put your point in the hole and pound for a few minutes, drink a beer, pound for a few minutes, beer.....

Do you have a tractor with a front loader? Makes things a little easier.

I live in the Hastings area and have a home made tool that I used to put mine in. I could let you borrow it if you would like and maybe even give you a hand. PM me if you would like to borrow it.

sjhawkeye

[slowpoke]

I have a tractor with a front loader, this home made tool that you used to put yours in, is that for a tractor? Can you add a picture to this post? Maybe I could make one for my tractor.

[Liv4Huntin']

Many thanks, sjhawkeye..... will be in touch. Oh..... and no, we don't have a front loader... although there may be someone in the 'neighborhood' that does, we'll check.
~ m ~

[sjhawkeye]

I have a tractor with a front loader, this home made tool that you used to put yours in, is that for a tractor? Can you add a picture to this post? Maybe I could make one for my tractor.

No, it's not really not for the tractor, but we did use it in conjunction with hydraulics of the loader the last 5-8 feet.

It is just a heavy cylinder shaft or gear that has a t-handle welded towards the top. The shaft is hollow and should fit over the well pipe, like a poast driver fits over a t-poast. 2 people lift it up and slamm it down on the well pipe. the sucker is real heavy. unfortunately, the pipe i used was a little bigger than the shaft, (we didn't know this until we got up north and we had no way of modifying the shaft to fit over the well pipe) so we used it like a sledge hammer.

I did try the "washing" out method with PVC before this and it didn't work well for me. My steel point and pipe drove pretty easy, but ii was in pure sand.

i have a small honda water pump (tsc for about $350) and about 300 feet of hose to water trees and food plots after seeding. All you have to do is hook up the pump to the well (hose clamp) and start the pump. The pump prime's itself and you have water within 30-60 seconds. Simple and easy, just the way i like it.

good luck,

sjhawkeye

[sjhawkeye]

Many thanks, sjhawkeye..... will be in touch. Oh..... and no, we don't have a front loader... although there may be someone in the 'neighborhood' that does, we'll check.
~ m ~

Your welcome.

I am going up north to my property on Friday. If you think you might use it, let me know and i will throw it on my trailer and bring it back.

scott

[Liv4Huntin']

sjhawkeye.......

Again, thanks, sjhawkeye. How very generous an offer!!! I read your message too late to respond before you went North. Since then, we MAY have found some Amish to help with the project..... still working on the contact.

Your setup sounds great. Do you have a hand pump on your well? This hauling water is getting real old REAL fast~! Thanks for the suggestions and your offer. If it doesn't work out with the Amish, we'll get back with you again.
~ m ~

[sjhawkeye]

No, I hook it up to a portable, gas powered pump that I bought from TSC. I will take a picture of the set up next time I am up there.

Basically, I have about 2 feet of pipe coming out of the ground. At the end of the pipe, there is a T. The top of the T is capped, the bottom of the T is attached to the ground pipe, and the side of the T has a hose barb screwed into it (I think it's about 11/2 or 2" barb).

At the barb, I connect about a 2' pvc tube with a hose clamp. At the end of the hose, another hose clamp connects the end of the hose to my pump. The out source of the pump is fitted with a regular garden hose fitting that you hook your hose up to.

The pump self primes and I am pumping water in less than 30 seconds. When I am done, I disconnect the garden hose and unclamp the hose clamp that attaches the larger, 2' pvc to the pump and take the pump home with me. I leave the large 2' pvc connected to the T and pipe and you don't have to do anything special to it in the winter.

It really is a sweet set up. It has awesome water pressure, even with several hundred feet of hose attached.

Let me know if you have any quesions and good luck.

scott

[lenray]

I have put in a lot of wells 1 1/4 and 2 inch. I use my Ford tractor with the pulley and use my Backhoe as a tripod--you could use a real tripod instead of a backhoe.
Have a heavy weight with a stem that goes down into the pipe about 3 ft. with a rope around the pulley on the Ford we can hit this pipe about 60- 80 times per minute--makes driving the pipe a very easy matter.
When driving a 2 inch we drive about 15 ft. of pipe then use a pump hooked up to a tank or any other water source to wash out the dirt in the pipe and then go another 10-15 ft. and repeat.
On the pulley on the Ford--took off the regular round pulley and bolted a small car rim to the pulley to keep the rope from coming off.
My dad used the rim off of his 54 Chevy to act as the pulley system many years ago-take tire off and use the rim on rear axle.
A lot of satisfaction in putting down your own well.

[Liv4Huntin']

Pretty cool!!! The Amish came out to the property and 'found' a 6ft. wide 'vein' in a fairly convenient place to put down a well and the man that did the 'witching' said it was 30 feet down. (We'd hoped for 20' or so!! oh well.) Pretty amazing to watch him 'in action'!!!! (had to make some for myself! ... AND THEY WORKED!!!). They gave a list of 5-ft. lengths of pipe, check valve, connectors, nipples, etc. for us to get .... sounds 'fairly expensive' (I realize everything is relative). It looks more complicated with all the stuff they said we need, but we sure need the water, so I guess we've got to go with it. We started a 'pre-driving' shovel-dug (and post-hole digger) hole, got down 4' or so and hit sand, dumped lots of water in to 'soften' the ground for driving...this will be by hand! (like with a post driver.) Also, they suggested a 'well pit' instead of top of the ground hook up. Thoughts???? (The 'neighbors' put down a 27' hand-driven well a few years ago with a simple elbow going to the gas pump.... simple enough looking.)

We begin early next week. Wish us luck!! Hopefully we can hook up a 'shallow well type pump' to the generator and power it from that.... Any thoughts???? Might we be better off to just get a more expensive gas-powered pump (this set up will be close to our 'lodging', so moving the gen. will not be much of a problem.)

Thanks for all the suggestions and help! We really appreciate all the input. :)
~ m ~

[eddiejohn4]

Lenray is right I used a tripod with a guide and used a weight to drive. went smooth. alot of work but hey that is why they call it work.

Good luck.

[Backwoods-Savage]

Also, they suggested a 'well pit' instead of top of the ground hook up. Thoughts???? (The 'neighbors' put down a 27' hand-driven well a few years ago with a simple elbow going to the gas pump.... simple enough looking.)

We begin early next week. Wish us luck!! Hopefully we can hook up a 'shallow well type pump' to the generator and power it from that.... Any thoughts???? Might we be better off to just get a more expensive gas-powered pump (this set up will be close to our 'lodging', so moving the gen. will not be much of a problem.)

Thanks for all the suggestions and help! We really appreciate all the input. :)
~ m ~

No doubt the reason they suggested a well pit is for freeze protection during the winter. We did the same with ours but had a minor problem. When we cut the pipe, we found we couldn't stop the water! It just kept on flowing. Actually it helped clear up the water fast. We quickly threaded the pipe and put a check valve on and then were okay. Good luck.

[Liv4Huntin']

This is getting more complicated all the time! Someone told us today that a pitcher pump (hand pump) will NOT pull water from over 25' down! The 'water witcher' said our water (the vein) is 30' down, and said there was no way to tell how deep the vein was.

I sure hope the folks at the 'well supplies' store can answer some of these questions, cause I don't want to spend a bunch then find out it won't work.

Thanks, all, for your assistance. It SURE helps!!
~ m ~

[lenray]

You could drive your pipe and point down 500 ft. and if the water pressure from the vein was to bring the water up 475 ft--ever heard of a flowing well--then you could pump it with a hand pump.
You could drive your point down 40 ft. and if the water pressure from down below only brought the water 10 ft. up you pipe--you couldn't pump it with a hand pump.
27 ft. is the limit with a shallow well hand pump system.
It is very rare to hit a real vein that doesn't have some HEAD pressure in the pipe.
500 ft. deep could be a shallow well system while 30 ft. deep could be a deep well system. It is all about the static water level in the driven pipe not the length of the pipe.

[HemlockNailer]

lenray, how do you know when you have found water ? Is it possible to drive the point right through a vein ?

[lenray]

Hello Hemlock Nailer
A little more to the story----I put a bar of soap on the screen rub it into the fine screen holes to keep out any fine sand when it hits water it will go away. You need to keep adding water to your pipe. When you hit a vein the water will go down--for a well to give water it has to take water.
Here is what I HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS OR SO. I auger the wells. Go to a sale or a tractor place like Buckley where there are hundreds of stands with guys selling stuff--old engine shows etc. and buy one of those 1 1/5 or 1 1/4 dia. wood drills that the ole guys used to bore out the holes for the pegs in the old barns.

Weld that to a piece of 1/2 inch and start augering down. Here where I live we have 45 ft. of solid clay. Keep adding pieces of pipe and work your way down. You can pull about 5-6 inches of clay per auger---just do it when you want to go down a few feet some evenings. When you go thru the clay into water sand with small rocks--that is where you want to be. Your drill will come up empty and you can also hear and feel the auger in the gravel bed where the water is.
With the augered hole it is very easy to drop you pipe down and know exactly where you need to be.
The wells here in the clay tend to be what is called a deep well system water table down farther than 25 ft. so I use a 2 inch. casing and use a deep well pump. With the well being 45 ft. deep and water coming up the casing about 15 ft. that puts me just below a shallow well pumping system. A guy could put in a pit for the well and get down another 5-6 ft. to be a shallow well slystem.
I took an 1 1/4 pipe and put it into a five gallon pail of water and climbed a windmill and was able to pull the water 27 ft. with a hand pump.

[HemlockNailer]

Thanks for the reply lenray. I have all sand and a very high water table, very near to Lake Huron. I am thinking of driving or augering in a point for a shallow well just for use on the lawn and trees.

[Liv4Huntin']

.... that's SOME clarification!!! Thank you very much! (from all of us) So, I guess we'll just have to drive it and see what we get, eh?

THIS SITE IS WONDERFUL! Where else can we all gain from those in the know? !!! Thanks Steve, and all, for this place of GREAT information and possibilities!

We're keeping our fingers crossed that we hit good water with lesser problems and efforts! (yeah, I know.... 'murphy' !!)
~ m ~

[Liv4Huntin']

After going down 38' and back up to various levels, we struck out, with nothing but lots of kick-back on the pitcher pump and not much water. So we pulled it all back out.

We moved the location, ( this water-witching actually worked for us!) went down 13', hit water (pretty good), went down to 18', got good water, no kick back, and the pitcher pump works well. Now for the questions.........

The well is down 18', including the 3' point, the water comes up 8' in the pipe. The food plot we'll be watering is at the level of the top of the pipe (1' above ground), the trees are uphill somewhat.... maybe 8' above the top of the well power pump future location. Perhaps total 18' above the top of the level of the water in the pipe to the trees. WILL A TRANSFER pump (gas powered) do the job we need ? The folks at the pump sales places say no, that we need a shallow-well pump.... but we're not finding any gas-powered pumps to do this without going to a belt-driven with separate motor set up (not willing to go the extra $800-900 for that set up if we don't have to.) We've had three people tell us they are pulling water up well pipes and have good pressure using these transfer pumps (5 hs. Honda).

lenray.... and anyone else ...... ANY INFO YOU CAN ADD will be most helpful. We're getting there! AT LEAST NOW WE HAVE WATER!!! (if not oil !! ;) )

THANKS MUCHLY!!
~ m ~

[slowpoke]

After going down 38' and back up to various levels, we struck out, with nothing but lots of kick-back on the pitcher pump and not much water. So we pulled it all back out.

We moved the location, ( this water-witching actually worked for us!) went down 13', hit water (pretty good), went down to 18', got good water, no kick back, and the pitcher pump works well. Now for the questions.........

The well is down 18', including the 3' point, the water comes up 8' in the pipe. The food plot we'll be watering is at the level of the top of the pipe (1' above ground), the trees are uphill somewhat.... maybe 8' above the top of the well power pump future location. Perhaps total 18' above the top of the level of the water in the pipe to the trees. WILL A TRANSFER pump (gas powered) do the job we need ? The folks at the pump sales places say no, that we need a shallow-well pump.... but we're not finding any gas-powered pumps to do this without going to a belt-driven with separate motor set up (not willing to go the extra $800-900 for that set up if we don't have to.) We've had three people tell us they are pulling water up well pipes and have good pressure using these transfer pumps (5 hs. Honda).

lenray.... and anyone else ...... ANY INFO YOU CAN ADD will be most helpful. We're getting there! AT LEAST NOW WE HAVE WATER!!! (if not oil !! ;) )

THANKS MUCHLY!!
~ m ~

I had a hole dug in a low spot on my land with a back hoe. It filled up and then I got a 2" trash pump and pumped water over 400 feet away + 25' up. It worked ,but that cost a lot. I also used it to water my garden up north. I had an old fire hose and hooked it up to the 2" hose drilled a few holes in the old fire hose and made me a big soaker hose, boy did that work good. I still have all of that and might sell it but not give it away if anyone is interested.

[walleyeman2006]

After going down 38' and back up to various levels, we struck out, with nothing but lots of kick-back on the pitcher pump and not much water. So we pulled it all back out.

We moved the location, ( this water-witching actually worked for us!) went down 13', hit water (pretty good), went down to 18', got good water, no kick back, and the pitcher pump works well. Now for the questions.........

The well is down 18', including the 3' point, the water comes up 8' in the pipe. The food plot we'll be watering is at the level of the top of the pipe (1' above ground), the trees are uphill somewhat.... maybe 8' above the top of the well power pump future location. Perhaps total 18' above the top of the level of the water in the pipe to the trees. WILL A TRANSFER pump (gas powered) do the job we need ? The folks at the pump sales places say no, that we need a shallow-well pump.... but we're not finding any gas-powered pumps to do this without going to a belt-driven with separate motor set up (not willing to go the extra $800-900 for that set up if we don't have to.) We've had three people tell us they are pulling water up well pipes and have good pressure using these transfer pumps (5 hs. Honda).

lenray.... and anyone else ...... ANY INFO YOU CAN ADD will be most helpful. We're getting there! AT LEAST NOW WE HAVE WATER!!! (if not oil !! ;) )

THANKS MUCHLY!!
~ m ~
i use a 5 horse to pull water 30 ft or more up ditch banks every day sometimes even straight up off bridges...make sure you prime the pump and you wont have a problem as long as your well can produce water fast enough...we can fill 1200 gal in about 20 min