waterfowl regulation's?

[goose hunter]

Any thing new in the news recently about the proposed rule changes for the coming season? I wonder about the season's for the early goose hunting. Have heard lots of talk in the past but nothing recent. Anyone have anything to report?

[Linda G.]

nothing's set in stone yet, won't be for awhile...but what I'm hearing is that we'll have the same early goose season as last year...

duck season is expected to either be shorter in length or with a smaller bag limit. Hopefully we'll get at least a 45 day season, because the proposed start dates are about the same as last year.

Linda

[goose hunter]

I was hoping to have a later start date for the ducks and increase the goose hunting. I wish we would have a little longer second season for the geese and maybe a little hunting around thanksgiving as we had when I was younger. It was a good time to go duck hunting out in the islands in the Lake Erie with my father and his friends. And we had a chance to take a "christmas goose", as they were called back then. It was a traditional hunt. Something the people in charge of setting our regulations most likely know nothing about,tradition that is. Well enough of my whining for now.:rolleyes:

[Linda G.]

From what Greg Soulliere said at the CWAC meeting in March, I can foresee another two day late duck/goose hunt in southern lower...hunters were apparently very pleased with that, but there were some remarks about a lack of law enforcement...I can also foresee another December and of course, a late goose season for all of you lucky cusses down there...us northerners are probably going to get hung out to dry again...despite the fact that we are drowning in geese right through January most winters these days...but, who knows, there's lots of meetings between that CWAC meeting in March and the decision in August...and the feds have final say on the time span and bag limits...

Linda

[goose hunter]

We come north to hunt the deer. Come down state and try our waterfowl hunting. You may get spoiled in that december season. It was a blast day after day at my places. ;) Thanks for the info.

[Linda G.]

I'd like to...I've tried to do the January season several times, and have only made it once, the day after a huge snowstorm, and all the geese were out on the lakes when we got there...too much snow in the field.

This year, I tried for a week, and got told that all the geese were on the golf courses...

Linda

[goose hunter]

Linda, do you write for the M.U.C.C. tv show?

[Dead Bird]

Linda,

[Dead Bird]

Linda,

What is CWAC?? I know who Greg Soulliere, is he part of your club??? As a side note "Goose Hunter" had some great days from what I remember from his post last year... If you are looking for someone to put you on some birds he might be a good start... I don't know how far North you are but Saginaw was smoking hot for the late two day season last year....

[boehr]

but there were some remarks about a lack of law enforcement

What remarks were there about this?

[Linda G.]

I haven't been able to get into the forums, it said the server was busy...

I'm a freelance outdoor writer who sells an occasional article to MUCC for their Michigan Out Of Doors magazine. I also am the northern regional field reporter for the MOOD TV show. I've written for the magazine on and off since 92 and done the TV show since 95.

CWAC is the Citizens Waterfowl Advisory Committee, set up by Howard Tanner of DNR fame in 1980. It consists of various Michigan waterfowl interests from all over the state from all of the various waterfowl organizations. They meet twice a year, with the intent of making recommendations and offering citizen's input to the DNR for the upcoming year's waterfowl regs. You must be appointed to this committee to be a part of it, and I haven't quite yet gotten the same story twice on how that happens.

I don't belong to any waterfowl clubs, per say, I hunt with friends all over the state, and am a member of DU, as of this past spring. Attended a banquet, so I guess that makes me a member. I'm a huge supporter of MIDHA and Delta Waterfowl, but not a member of either, yet.

Boehr-those remarks were primarily from the guys hunting the islands on Lake St. Clair during the late January two day season....they said that most regular waterfowlers in the area seemed to be familiar with the fact that the local CO's had put their boats up for the season....so there was bait, and other violations going on. I remember one guy who claimed he saw a guy with a boat full of corn heading out there the day before the season opened...

A DNR sargeant was present at the meeting, he took notes on that and talked to the guys that mentioned it later, a Sgt. Marble or Varble?? From the Shiawassee area...nice man...

Linda

[Dead Bird]

Linda,

When I was big into Warefowl I worked with Delta out of Minn. Does anyone from Delta sit on this committe. These guys and gals really knew ther stuff... By the way welcome to the site, looking forward to getting your view point....

[boehr]

Thanks Linda, just curious. That would have been Lt. Alan Marble, District Law Supervisor in Bay City. He is also a big waterfowl hunter in Michigan and I know he goes to the Dakotas too.

[goose hunter]

Linda, I would like to welcome you and to thank you for more info than I would have guessed I would have recieved.WOW. Seems like you know you stuff. Cant wait to read more. Thank you again.

[Firetiger]

Linda,, can't say what was going on "North", but the MiDNR were busy down on erie, I got checked at the launch and at the blind and back at the launch "Both Days"...even got checked once when I didn't have a gun or dekes! Welcome to the site

Hey Goose, dreaming about the flights yet? are you going to hit the spring snow goose hunt with us next year or what??

[goose hunter]

Tiger, you know how many days I'm out hunting geese. I really dont have much left at that time of the year. I may do it to try it. I get invited every time some guides from this side of the state go but have yet to make it. I get invited to Arkansas, Missouri and a couple other spots. I get burned out hunting and holding my full time job. Thanks will keep it in mind though. I cant drive to work without looking over the new fields and ponds I have to hunt this year. All the geese have hatched and the ponds are full of ducks and geese. Looking like a great year for us waterfowlers. I'm getting ready for the fall seasons soon. Hope we get a break on the reg's this year. I wish we could remove the plugs in our shotguns for the early season. I've taken 4 out of a flock but have yet to get that fifth shell in the gun fast enough. They are nuisance geese not migrants. Thats why I feel we should be able to pull the plugs.:) Oh! almost forgot. Lack of enforcement, Ha, just hunt or fish with me and you will get checked. I am Michigans most checked outdoorsman. Fishing,hunting or just scouting and I see the local officers. Just follow the rules and it's no problem.

[Firetiger]

Wa Wa WAAA,,,LOL .. if I told you that all the geese you see ALL year wouldn't add up to what one good field holds in the central flyway, would that change your mind,, I mean you will see Ross's greater and lesser snows in full plumage and in the "Blue" color phase, spec's and so many canada's you will think your in Jame's Bay,,, I think that seeing all the waterfowl in spring Plumage is worth the trip alone, I saw so many Pintails and cans and bluebill and redheads and .. and .. well everything but Old Squaws and Hariquins,,, It's worth a trip

[goose hunter]

You guy's just keep talking. I might get the bug and go. I see the big flights every year at the refuge at my home. The Todd Farm. Not the one that I hunt. I know it's not that many but when you start talking in the thousands whats a few hundred less. I have hunted ducks and geese since I was 12 years old. And have had the chance to hunt many fine spots over the years. I guess I just dont get that thrilled about more hunting than I already do. I would love to have my blind full of youngsters and never even take my shotgun. I only get excited when it is someone that has never been before. Dont get me wrong I love waterfowling but I have had my share over the years. It is time to give something back to the sport.;)

[thebellman]

Goose hunter,

Pretty much everything Linda gave ya was true, as she sat in on the last CWAC meeting.

I hope I can shed some light on a few things, regarding our state seasons.

I currently sit on CWAC, as the State Vice President for the Michigan Duck Hunters Association.

I can honestly say that having joined this Association about five years ago, has opened my eyes as to how things get done or undone depending on your views.

This years goose seasons should mirror those of last years, the reasoning for the regular goose season framework providing limited opportunities is an attempt to maintain a relatively low harvest rate on interior geese (MVP & SJBP) that fall stage in Michigan. So again expect the regular season to open Sept. 16th..

As for the Duck season, here is where we stand.

There is the strong possibility for a season framework extension, meaning that the season could start as early as Sept. 24th and run till the last Sunday in January. This has been suggested by the Lower Mississippi Flyway Region Regulations Committe at the February Flyway Technical Section Meeting. Some of the northern states belonging to the Upper Region have expressed some interest in opening sooner to avoid freeze ups.

Outside of this, we have to deal with the Adaptive Harvest Management Strategy which uses a matrix which counts mid-continent ponds and mallard populations as a guide to season length and bag limits.

The latest reports I've heard are that the prairie pothole numbers are down, and the spring mallard survey is also expected to be down.

Last year, based on this matrix we fell within a liberal season (60 days). The expectation now is that we will more than likely have a conservative season (45 days) with the same bag limits. Should the prairie pothole numbers be really bad or mallard numbers return greatly less than expected we might see a restrictive season (30 days) with a 3-bird bag.

I can tell you that depending on the frameworks offered by the USFWS, the Wildlife Division of the DNR has developed three options for the duck season based on production information and hunter input collected by biologists, hunter opion survey (last conducted in 1998-1999), and CWAC.

Last year CWAC recommendation to the Wildlife division was for three separate openers, North zone opening Sept. 29th, Middle Zone opening Oct 6th, and the South zone opening Oct 13th..

However the Division stated that they had received a strong interest by many waterfowlers to overlap a portion of the duck & goose season. Hence we opened the North & Middle zones on Sept. 29th and the South zone on Oct 6th..

Now here is were views get thrown in the mix, like mine. I think that Goose hunters and Duck hunters are two separate fellows. I like to do both, but when it's duck season, it's duck season. If I can bag a goose, great otherwise I'm duck hunting. So why make one suffer for the possibility of shooting geese.

I can tell you that MDHA is in the process of publicly releasing a position statement on our recommendations to CWAC and the Wildlife Division for the upcoming 2002-2003 seasons.

I would suggest watching our website at www.midha.org for that.

A little insight is that we will again ask for three separate openers, and if a conservative season (45 days) is bestowed upon us by the USFWS we would like to see a split to encompass the Thanksgiving weekend in the south zone.

I hope this brings to light how things happen,

Roland

[Firetiger]

I hope they go for the three zone opener, I think that a 45 day season would hurt.. Badly... And as for me I would rather see a season that started later and ran later,, as opposed to a early season that might run out before the freeze up. In the south zone we won't see the big flights till the north wind pushes the birds down and freezes the lake up north,,I know our group and others as well were still getting Woodies almost till the end of the regular season,,and the big flights are at least a month behind the last of the teal and woodies migration.
The bellman,, any word on the season and bag limits on CanvasBacks?? I mean, I think I'am correct in assuming that the late season was set up for the Hunters in the south zone to take advantage of the "late Flights",,I was very upset they took the Can's off the list during the late January season last year,,Thanks in advance,,,
GooseHunter,,, might have to come and hunt with us and hunter across the crick,,,

[Firetiger]

Just got off the phone, The MiDNR are going to meet in Mid-july and then offer seasons and bag limit to the Feds, we will probably get a response and firm set seasons by August.

[thebellman]

Fire Tiger,

In regards to the Canvasback season, at the Mississippi Flyway Technical Section meetings in February the Harvest Management strategy was reviewed, and the triggering threshold (the estimated population) was lowered to 400,000 (from 500,000).

Arguement is that if the threshols falls below 400,000 birds, close the season. If the threshold is above we will have a full season. This was done to eliminate the 20 day Can season within a season.

What the person at the DNR should have told you was that Michigan's representatives on the Flyway Council (Greg Soulliere and Dave Luukkonen) will attend the Technical Section meeting, scheduled for July 25-30,2002. At the Tech meeting season framework will be establihed by the USFWS.

Greg and Dave will then return to Mich and make their reports to the Wildlife Division.
The Division will come up with some suggestions for the seasons and bag limits, based on Tech meeting reports.

The Division will then meet with CWAC on August 3, 2002.

CWAC will have discussion on the Tech Mtg info, and make recommendations to the Division on seasons and bag limits.

The Division will then take this information, its own recommendations, and any other biological findings to the NRC on August 8 and 9, 2002. It will be the NRC who make the finally say on Michigan season dates and bag limits.

Remember CWAC is only a Citizens Waterfowl Advisory Committee, and its mission is to provide feedback to the DNR-Wildlife Div on exsisting and proposed waterfowl regs and management issues. CWAC memebrs must present views and concerns which represent stakeholders from their areasof the state and disseminate information learned at CWAc back to those stakeholders.

CWAc consists of 8 groups (Michigan Duck Hunters Assoc., Ducks Unlimited, Wildlife Unlimited, Michigan Waterfowl Assoc., Waterfowl USA, Shiawassee Flats Citizens & Hunters Assoc., Harsens Island Waterfowl Hunters Assoc., and MUCC (seat currently vacant)). and 11 inividuals, who are appointed byu the DNR for a 3 yr term.

I hope this explains any questions you had. God its was just so much simpler to just buy a license and go hunting:(

[Firetiger]

The bellman,, I understand the chain of command when it comes to waterfowl Regs, what I don't understand is the reasoning behind the disparity between Canadian and U.S. bag limits and seasons,,I've said it before and I'll say it again, Placating Michigan waterfowlers with a golf course goose shoot and preventing us from enjoying the late season flights specifically designed to harvest birds that fill the skys in January.. Thanks for the update and I can't wait to hear the results from all the meeting going on... Sounds to me like they have already made up there minds and it looks like a short season and smaller bag, and I'll bet the southeren states gets the Lions share of of the flight birds, while we have a greater number of Hunters chasing a smaller number of local birds,, And thanks again for such a detailed update

[Dead Bird]

Firetiger,
I think you hit the nail on the head, the problem is there currently is not a lobby group which supports your thoughts. The only saving grace we have is that we have options to hunt Canada which gives us waterfowlers something to look forward to.

[Canadian Hunter]

Come on over! plenty of room in the later part of the season. Hunted the river the last 3 days of the season last year, only 2 other groups out, and the flights were just coming down!!!

Lakes are busier, but Ive got some private access for st.clair. Actually, I'll yell when breakfast is ready, you can walk in from the layout boat!

[Butch]

Thebellman-

In your post above, you summarized the Adaptive Harvest Management Strategy matrix. You mentioned that even with a 45 day season, "limits will be the same". I was under the impression that a 'conservative' 45 day season would be accompanied by a reduction from the 6-bird limit to 5 or 4. If I understood your post, a 45 day season would be accompanied by a 6-bird limit. Can you (or anyone else that knows) confirm that?

Also, has there been any formal discussion of changes to the bluebill limit?

Thanks for your help.

Butch

[goose hunter]

Here we go again. Another season with silly reg's. Tiger get me a good seat in the boat. Looks like we have to go to the other country to get some hunting in real duck weather. If they open it earlier that will be a shame. I would rather they moved duck season back a couple weeks. Fowl weather not shirt sleeve weather for me,please. We can take woodies at my place right up till the last day again this year. Then season will close and the flight ducks will come on down. Could do Fletchers or Houghton lake,Tiger. I have a place at both those lakes.

[michiduck]

Here ya go Butch

Here are the existing frameworks by flyway

Atlantic Flyway

Liberal:

Days, 60
Daily Bag, 6
Possession Limit, 12
Bag, 4 Mallards, (2 Hens), 1 Black, 2 Redheads, 2 Wood Ducks, 1 Whistling Duck, 1 Mottled Duck, **

Moderate:

Days, 45
Daily Bag, 6
Possession Limit, 12
Bag, 4 Mallards, (2 Hens), 1 Black, 2 Redheads, 2 Wood Ducks, 1 Whistling Duck, 1 Mottled Duck, **

Restrictive:

Days, 30
Daily Bag, 3
Possession Limit, 6
Bag, 3 Mallards, (1 Hen), 1 Black, 2 Redheads, 2 Wood Ducks, 1 Whistling Duck, 1 Mottled Duck **

Very Restrictive:

Days, 20
Daily Bag, 3
Possession Limit, 6
Bag, 3 Mallards, (1 Hen), 1 Black, 2 Redheads, 2 Wood Ducks, 1 Whistling Duck, 1 Mottled Duck **


MS Flyway:

Liberal:

Days, 60
Daily Bag, 6
Possession Limit, 12
Bag, 4 Mallards, (2 Hens), 1 Black, 2 Redheads, 2 Wood Ducks, 3 Mottled Ducks **

Moderate:

Days, 45
Daily Bag, 6
Possession Limit, 12
Bag, 4 Mallards, (1 Hen), 1 Black, 2 Redheads, 2 Wood Ducks, 3 Mottled Ducks **

Restrictive:

Days, 30
Daily Bag, 3
Possession Limit, 6
Bag, 2 Mallards, (1 Hen), 1 Black, 1 Redhead, 2 Wood Ducks, 3 Mottled Ducks **

Very Restrictive:

Days, 20
Daily Bag, 3
Possession Limit, 6
Bag, 2 Mallards, (1 Hen), 1 Black, 1 Redhead, 2 Wood Ducks, 3 Mottled Ducks **


Central Flyway:

Liberal:

Days, 74
Daily Bag, 6
Possession Limit, 12
Bag, 5 Mallards, (2 Hens), 2 Redheads, 2 Wood Ducks, 1 Mottled Duck **

Moderate:

Days, 60
Daily Bag, 6
Possession Limit, 12
Bag, 5 Mallards, (1 Hen), 2 Redheads, 2 Wood Ducks, 1 Mottled Duck **

Restrictive:

Days, 39
Daily Bag, 3
Possession Limit, 6
Bag, 3 Mallards, (1 Hen), 1 Redhead, 2 Wood Ducks, 1 Mottled Duck **

Very Restrictive:

Days, 25
Daily Bag, 3
Possession Limit, 6
Bag, 3 Mallards, (1 Hen), 1 Redhead, 2 Wood Ducks, 1 Mottled Duck **


Pacific Flyway:

Liberal:

Days, 107
Daily Bag, 7
Possession Limit, 14
Bag, 7 Mallards, (2 Hens), 2 Redheads **

Moderate:

Days, 86
Daily Bag, 7
Possession Limit, 14
Bag, 5 Mallards, (2 Hens), 2 Redheads **

Restrictive:

Days, 60
Daily Bag, 4
Possession Limit, 8
Bag, 3 Mallards, (1 Hen), 2 Redheads **

Very Restrictive:

Days, 38
Daily Bag, 4
Possession Limit, 8
Bag, 3 Mallards, (1 Hen), 2 Redheads **


Notes:

** Pintail and Canvasback limits will be determined based on Harvest Strategy, while Scaup limits will be based on Current Scaup Status Information.

1. In the High Plains Mallard Management Unit, all regulations would be the same as the remainder on the Central Flyway, with the exception of season length. Additional days would be allowed under the various alternatives as follows: very restrictive - 8 restrictive - 12, moderate and liberal - 23. Under all alternatives, additional days must be on or after the Saturday nearest December 10.

2. In the Columbia Basin Mallard Management Unit, all regulations would be the same as the remainder of the Pacific Flyway, with the exception of season length. Under all alternatives except the liberal alternative, an additional 7 days would be allowed.

3. In Alaska, framework dates, bag limits, and season length would be different than the remainder of the Pacific Flyway. The bag limit would be 5-7 under the very restrictive, and restrictive alternatives, and 8-10 under the moderate and liberal alternatives. There would be no restrictions on pintails, and canvasback limits would follow those for the remainder of the Pacific Flyway. Under all alternatives, season length would be 107 days and framework dates would be Sep 1 - Jan 26.

[Butch]

Thanks Michiduck

Butch

[thebellman]

Butch,

What Michiduck posted is correct for the Mississippi Flyway.

Just for the record I would like to see the southern zone open on Oct. 19th, as history shows that the "normal" migration peak slides through typically the last week of October and the first week of November.

Also, having the Northern zone open September 21st, and the Middle zone open October 5th. Two weeks between each zones opener.

The opposition that I would see coming from Greg Souillere (DNR Biologist), I believe his position and recommendation to the NRC will be that it is not sound biologically management. As southern zone hunters will not harvest Wood Duck's and Teal.

Now, don't kill the messenger!

I also saw Woodies the last day of the regular season.

If we go to a 45-day season, we will lose those two days in January. I hunted the first, having had to sleep in the car at one of the only accesses with open water.

Scaup limits look like they we stay put at 3/day, I think we will have a full season (whatever that is) for cans since the decision was made to lower the trigger threshold on their numbers. I saw tons and tons wintering this year on Lake St. Clair.

Pintails seem to be a concern, but all we can do is wait for the survey results.

[Butch]

Thanks, thebellman.

Butch

[Firetiger]

Trade you the last two weeks in Oct. for two full weeks in January,
I would be more then happy to Migrate North to catch the teal and woodie's for a decent shot at late season flights of diver's. Besides i have enough trouble making up mind to hunt whitetails during the beginning of the rut the end of Oct. or competing with all the other waterfowlers on the river for the few remaining local puddlers.. I have to disagree with Soltries peak migration data, seems the middle of November the big flights started to come down.

[goose hunter]

I could do for another week in December. Really hope they back off the opener till the middle of October. If they do the 2 week opener that would make for a good change. Many hunters venture north for a couple days of gunning. This would give more a chance to do so. I'm with you Tiger, fight the crowd or hunt the rut. We have so many tough choices to make here in Michigan. Dont forget the fall salmon/steelhead run. Looks like we have some knowledgeable members here. I would like to thank you for the info,one and all of you. Lets keep our fingers crossed for a great season with full game bags for all. Good luck and keep it safe. Goose.

[Linda G.]

Very interesting thread...I've been lost in the turkey woods for the past 6 weeks...hi Roland.

Recently, there was a letter to the editor of Michigan Outdoor News refuting everyone's interest in a later season...from a gentleman in the UP who is a former member of CWAC. He stated, in that letter, that, if anything, waterfowlers want an EARLIER season.

He also took to task the folks I got honest statements from regarding CWAC, and I can tell you, they weren't alone. I've talked to a LOT of people about this committee, but in the interest of brevity there simply wasn't room to put all their comments in...this gentleman inferred that the two people I talked to were the only people in the state who believe CWAC has problems...

That letter is in the current issue of MON...I can tell you that the DNR will take this letter all the way to the bank, and this sort of public comment is what the NRC follows VERY closely.

SO-if you think we need a LATER season, and would like to know more about CWAC, its duties, its members, or have NEVER heard of it before now, (I've been waterfowling for about 10 years now seriously, and although I'd seen that little blurb on the waterfowl regs, I didn't know what it was all about...and I'm an outdoor writer...I KNOW I'm not alone), then PLEASE drop a line to the editor of MON at: bpoutdoors@aol.com and let him know what you think about the proposed 03 season...you MUST include your name and address to have your letter printed.

LET THE FEDS, THE NRC, AND THE DNR KNOW WHAT YOU THINK

As for canvasbacks (someone mentioned them somewhere), there was something said at the meeting about a concern that people are shooting cans thinking they are redheads...so be prepared for a cutback there, I think.

Linda

[Firetiger]

Linda, can't speak for anyone else but I let everyone know what I think. I really don't know anyone who wants an earlier season, the weather and zones not withstanding. The Feds and the NRC have already reduced the canvasback harvest down to the bone, one a day and a short and I mean short twenty day season, how much can they cut it futher ? If you think about it, most people can only hunt the weekends, and a 20 day season is only three to four weekend , thats 6 to 8 days for one bird a day, are these people kidding or what, seems like a cruel joke to finally get a late season only to hack the heart out of it by further restriction the season by removing canvasbacks from the menu, all the while our waterfowling brethern across the crick are pounding them 4 a day forever,,,,,Thanks for the heads up on the advisory committee, I may have to look into that,,,

[Dead Bird]

Firetiger,
I dug out a report from last year which gave a go ahead for "liberal" restrictions for the 2001 season. An interesting quote from the US Fish & Wildlife acoording to Mr Smith (advisory for USF&W Dept) "This one was right on the cusp" refering to the breeding survey from last June. Also stated was "If we see firgures like this next year, hunters can expect a more restrictive season in 2002." This survey takes into account the Mich, Minn and Wisc. for the mallard count survey.
The USFW will publish there finds in the July time frame for the public to review. The season startegy will also be released, ie liberal, moderate, restrictive, etc.
The breeding survey biologists do there survey normally the first two weeks in June, and publish there findings and results within two weeks.

[Linda G.]

Do they count nests and eggs, I wonder...or just chicks. In northern Michigan, and I would bet, in many areas of Canada, Wisconsin, Minnesota and the Dakotas we're going to have an extremely late hatch, due to the extended cold weather. We have a few goslings, but we also still have a lot of nesting geese, and they're usually all hatched out by June 1. I have yet to see any ducklings at all up here....

Linda

[Firetiger]

DeadBird,, I have been busy checking around, and I have come to the conclusion that we will get screwed bigtime this year, I'am betting that a short season and a reduced bag limit are in our future, guess I better stock up on walleye's, or learn the Canadian Regs...

Linda, have you noticed any hatched out geese with only 5 chicks, I'am thinkin that those egg shaking SOB's have been very busy depleting the resourse " their way "...

[Linda G.]

So far, about 5 chicks or even fewer is what I'm seeing, Firetiger, most of them are about 2 weeks old that I'm seeing. I'm not in a big flyway area, and I don't think there's ANY egg shaking going on around here-unless private land owners are doing it to birds nesting in the parks and on lawns up here. We NEVER see anyone who would have the authority to do that. But I think we get a lot of nesting birds, and most of them nest out on the islands of the lakes, where no one should bother them at all. I think the hatch is just small up here because of the cold weather we had.

But, come to think of it, 5-7 is what I NORMALLY see...I'm sure predation is a huge factor up here.

Linda

[Firetiger]

Usually, if the nest is raided the predator will get them all, and the nesting pair will lay another brood, I've read a study where a Hen mallard was raided three times before successfully hatching out a clutch. Down here in the southern zone, Its common to see ten to 12 chicks . And I have been doing my Pre-season scouting and theres a lot that have only five, if it was due to a cold snap( rain hurts them worse) or predation, you would expect and uneven amount of chicks , say 2 chicks in one clutch or 8 in another, I have an E-mail out there trying to determine the procedure for reducing the nesting rate with out "Shaking all the eggs", since the adults will re-nest if a brood fails, most of my recorded observations were in and around Golf courses and private locations...

[Linda G.]

I'm wondering how much predation goose poults get up here from northern critters like muskies, northern pike, eagles, not to mention house cats...and the occasional fox that can grab them on the shore.

I'll keep an eye on the poults I see and keep you posted.

Linda

[Firetiger]

Coons and possums, we could dramatically increase the nesting rate by all waterfowl if we all wore fur hats...

[lwingwatcher]

I think part of the problem with devising equitable seasons and bag limits (if there is even such a thing) is the fact that puddle duck hunters prefer an earlier season and diver hunters benefit from a later season (barring an early freeze).

Couple that with the variation in weather from the UP to southern Michigan and you have duck hunters that cannot possibly agree on all aspects of anything that is proposed.

Then you go and look at what occurs across the water to the east and the whole, "for the ducks" thing gets really idiotic.

Throw in goose hunters and what do we have?

Nesting mallard surveys don't much matter to me cuz I primarily hunt divers. Problem is, they impact seasonal regulations. Teal, I go south in hopes of timing their arrival.

The only way we are gonna be happy hunting migratory game birds is to become migratory hunters. Sad but true...

[Canadian Hunter]

Iwingwatcher do you want to elaborate on what happens over the water to the east?

I'm really curious too hear what you mean by that. I can take it, so dont hold back! Take shots at anything you want!!!

[lwingwatcher]

Well, it has been said that I am a lousy shot but, the way I see it, until such a time when migratory waterfowl regulations are on the same page every where, they leave considerable room for improvement.

You guys have opportunities available that we do not. I am not saying Canada is wrong and the USA isn't, it is just the other side of the water thing.

Kinda like having two boat registrations and two fishing licenses on Erie in case you stray too far out of yur home state. That is a poor example but, we are cryin when we can't shoot the same ducks you can cuz of our regs.

That is one of the reasons that waterfowl hunters have been forced to become migratory as well, to maximize hunting opportunities.

[goose hunter]

I getting everyone's 2 cents worth on this simple question. Sure got a dog gone good one going now. This post will keep going till we get the reg's in print, I'm willing to guess. Lot's of input. Thank you everyone. International also. Oh boy!

[lwingwatcher]

That is the great thing about a waterfowling forum, folks are not afraid to call it like they see it and, as a result, it can be a learning process for those involved. The different perspectives are often enlightening.

[goose hunter]

Well said. I just love it. Alot to look foward to. I know many havent posted yet either. This is going to only get better as the year goes on. I will gain a lot of knowledge from this site, I'm sure. I may even be able to add a little, hopefully.;)

[lwingwatcher]

GH--your post came at 8:20PM what are you doin sittin in front of this screen instead of the TV watchin the Red Wings??????????

[Canadian Hunter]

I understand the other side of the crick theory ALL TOO WELL!!!

Our duck season is pretty liberal, but same could be said of your goose seasons!

Also a major consideration I believe that is taken into account and very honstly I feel is justified, is the number of hunter's participating in that state/province. I'll bet just the guy's that hunt Lk. St.clair to the Ohio boarder in Michigan, equal's Ontario's total waterfowl hunter's, and probably surpasses it! I'll have too look up the number's but I believe there were a total of 14-15000 waterfowl stamps sold in Ontario 2 years ago.

[multibeard]

Hey you guys don't look to Canada as the only ones having liberal goose seasons. Look south. I have copy of Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee waterfowl regulations for 2001/2002. There regular goose seasons ran from 50 to 70 days and it wasn't in September, they hunted in Dec. and Jan. Can still hear the Dnr guy on MOOD tv saying that we had the short season as we had to share the low goose population with the southern states. Doesn't look to me that we are sharing with them but giving them all the flight geese. Doesn't look as if any one is sticking up for our SHARE of the flight geese.

[lwingwatcher]

Waterfowl are waterfowl, right? Well, there have to be duck regs and goose regs, and puddle duck and diver duck, then local geese and migrant geese and.....

These are for the most part migratory birds. Where I was going was the fact that we would all be better served (as would the birds) if all the regulatory powers to be were on the same page.

Now I am not, by virtue of my location, claimin that we deserve an exception for the local goose overpopulation. We do however, have a big time problem that needs to be resolved by whatever means are effective, preferably harvesting. If our neighbors across the river have the same local problem, address it in a similar fashion. We still need to maintain regulations that protect the SJB flock.

The flight duck issue is a little different though. They are not local ducks for either one of us, it just happens to matter which side of the water your blind is on. That just doesn't make sense in my book as an effective means to regulate the harvest.

I dunno about any theories so, clue me in as to the error of my thought processes...

[Big Frank 25]

Speaking of same pages,
The majority of states in the Mississippi Flyway allowed two hen mallards. Michigan allowed only one.
The big money being spent on hunting rights "across the water" most likely doesn't hurt either!;)
I think the simple thing to do is to cross the water and buy a Migratory Bird Permit and have at it!

[lwingwatcher]

Like I said before, to be a migratory game bird hunter, it looks like ya gotta be migratory to get a decent crack at 'em.

Oh well...

[Canadian Hunter]

Big Frank you got it, come on over!!!

I'd even be happy to show you guy's a couple local spots(30 minutes from Windsor) that are public and have very little pressure in the late season. You wont get my honeyhole's, but you'll get shooting in the late season!

And if you guy's are in the Port Huron area, I also know of a real nice marsh that is in that area, there is even some flooded timber in it!

[Big Frank 25]

Originally posted by lwingwatcher
Like I said before, to be a migratory game bird hunter, it looks like ya gotta be migratory to get a decent crack at 'em.

Oh well...

Yep! If you want to get the one you missed! :D

[Big Frank 25]

Thanks CH! I might just take you up that. I once enjoyed the hopitality of a house blind that was built on a gravel bar in the middle of the Detroit River on the down river end. The owners would go out and spend the weekends out there. I would protect it for them on the off days.;)

[lwingwatcher]

Don't ya just love interactive forums? :D

[HeavyChevy]

Hey Goose hunter just wanted to say hey. And am looking forward to hunting with ya on the 14th of september.

[goose hunter]

Iwingwatcher, you caught me at the office on the puter at work. I have a nice big picture window to watch the game as I type. That is your tax dollars at work. I was watching the red wings and on the puter about the other wings. It's a tough job this Psych nursing for the state of Michigan. Heavy, we are going to bust up a bunch of geese and get to know a bunch of club members as we do it. I too cant wait. I enjoy the puter stuff, but face to face is my kind of thing. I am going to show you guy's a good time. I will work hard to do so. Matt had a great idea to have the meet and greet hunt. I posted some thing on hunt with info you might want to look at.

[Firetiger]

Goose Hunter,, Meat and Greet sounds good, as long as everyone shows up early to put out all those Goose dekes you have, LOL and have a lottery to see who cleans birds..LOL

[goose hunter]

I will have them set-up and be drinking coffee with a doughnut before anyone gets there. Somethings never change. Remember the guides day starts at least one hour before everyone else. After the hunt I always get suckered into the cleaning. They always think the guy with the most experience cleaning should do it.HAHA. I wish I would get to shoot a few once in awhile. Then I might be able to learn to shoot. Like I tell everyone "I dont call very well and sure cant shoot, all I do is kill geese." The meet and greet should be good fun,eh? I'm going to tape the hunt. Anyone make a good shot they will be able to prove it, but let them miss and everyone will get to see it. The tape doesnt lie. I will have fun anyway it turns out. I'm hoping for rain during the night and windy at first light and of course cool air. Fowl weather. Hope it's not in the 90's and clear sky. We need to cull a few of these nuisance geese. I looked over the birds this weekend. Looks like I have more than last year. We had a good hatch around my area. Someone must have taken a few coyotes and coon's. I hope we get good season dates. I will keep the fingers crossed.

[lwingwatcher]

Video eh? I wanna know how you plan on taping the bird and the shooter at the same time. Good shot, everybody claims to have made it. Video the hunter and he always claims to have hit the mark.

You may have to get creative (or real cuddly) to get the shooter and the target in the same frame.;)

[goose hunter]

Hope to be able to have the birds right in their face. I will take a lay-down blind and set-up behind the pit. I put the birds in the decoy's or I dont let them shoot. No pass shooting at my hunts. I was able to put over 1000 birds in the blocks last year. The gunners took 396. I instruct the hunters to shoot into the flock the same as they sit in the blind. Left side takes the left birds and so on. Seems easy but almost never works that way. Everyone throws the lids and they all want to shoot the same bird. And most empty the gun faster than they ever have in their life. 3 seconds of panic is what I call it.HEHEHE. I will have the video to show them how fast they shoot. Might even hit something.HAHA I'm ready to go now,Is it September yet?:rolleyes:

[lwingwatcher]

Sounds like you have a pretty good plan. That should be a blast, whether the gunners are any good or not. You could sell them the tapes if they are good, and do a little extorting if they are not.;) Either way, good for you, good for the hunters.

We tried to video in turkey season, birds didn't cooperate. The camera guy was the one who shot the booker, and we didn't even get it on film.

[goose hunter]

I'm going to practice on the waterfowl with the idea to have a good plan for my deer hunters. Bow hunters all seem to want me to shoot video. The customer is always right ya know. Bought a bunch of tree stands so I can get several good set-ups. I'm new at this video hunting stuff. By no means a pro. I just hope I can get some good footage. I will learn on the job so to speak. Anyone got some helpfull ideas, I'm open to listening. I guess I should make another post and ask for help from others that have done it. Have to call me Greenhorn Productions at this time. HAHA;)

[lwingwatcher]

Yep, bowhunting out of a tree stand is a piece of cake, especially if you can get good stand placement. We have one huge stand 8 miles high that two guys can get in. They shot some decent video out of it last year except you can't get the hunter in the frame that way.

Good luck.

[goose hunter]

Being a rookie greenhorn I think I will have many things to think over. I'm just going to give it a good try and hope for fair results. If I dont expect too much I wont be dissapointed. I have been watching others videos to try and get tips on camera placement and the likes. I have ideas that I need to look over at the sites before the season. I hope to talk with a couple pro's that I know. They may be able to give me some pointers. I can see me now, shoot a little video then throw it aside and try to shoot my shotgun.HEHE. I better only carry the camera.;)

[Firetiger]

Hey goose hunter, rent a hunting tape and get a pad of paper and write down all the camera angles, or just call me I have a Pro who dying to get some Kills on tape,

[Dead Bird]

After the birds I saw last weekend I'm willing to help any way I can. Luge dekes, fetch fresh doughnuts, what ever needs to get done I'm willing to help. Not that great with a call or gun but I can miss with the best of them. If there is room I would love a crack at some of those birds... Nothing is as sweat as the echo of Dead Bird....hunt em up...

[Firetiger]

Hey I have even a better Idea, use the blind you have for shooting all those greenheads to flim dropping all those geese, cut a hole in the back of the blind and your all set, Oh yeah ,, I seen you shoot, maybe your should learn how to run the camera...Ha Ha....

[goose hunter]

Good thinking Tiger. Would you like to be the one sitting infront of the blind to film? Only plywood no steel on those duck houses. You forgot to mention that I call worse than I shoot. HAHAHA. I just kill geese, nothing fancy to my rig. I can get him plenty of shot's Tiger have him give me a call. I get a good laugh every time I see the waterfowlers on the tv goose hunting. I just love the look of panic on the hunters face when the shooting starts. I dont want to be the one that misses the easy one on film. Bet I can get some volunteers.;)

[Firetiger]

Ha ha ha ...well I didn't want to say anything about your shooting and calling skills in the same sentence,,,LOL I'll get ahold of him and contact you,, hey why don't you come on down and hit the river, real good chance of getting some wallygators and maybe a husky musky,, and we will discuss the demise of numerous waterfowl species ....

[goose hunter]

let the shooting begin