Speed=Distance?

[michigandeerslayer]

With these faster bows out there, will you gain more distance with more speed ? Im picking up that Pse carerra and they are a fast bow, I have a parker ultra lite and it is fast but not that fast and im good to about 30 yards and the arrow's start droping. I want to get my range to about 50 yards +. Im very confident with my bow and i want the challenge

thanks

Rich

[archerjustin]

If your new bow is faster than yes it will shoot the same arrow farther and faster. Arrow drop is somewhat exponential though so your drop from 40 to 50 for example will always be greater than your drop from 10 to 20 or any other shorter distance.

[GVDocHoliday]

No matter if you're shooting 280 or 350...you hit that 45 yard mark and your arrow will drop like a rock.

[TnRidge]

Speed won't extend your effective range any farther than your archery skills . Unlike a bullet , a faster arrow doesn't translate into a more accurate arrow . Speed will amplify any shooter errors , and planing issues with broadheads .
If you lack range estimating skills , speed will help you a little . I have said this before and I'll say it again . Archery is seeing how far away you can hit the bullseye , bowhunting is seeing how close you can get to it .

[BUCKWIZZARD]

With these faster bows out there, will you gain more distance with more speed ? Im picking up that Pse carerra and they are a fast bow, I have a parker ultra lite and it is fast but not that fast and im good to about 30 yards and the arrow's start droping. I want to get my range to about 50 yards +. Im very confident with my bow and i want the challenge

thanks

Rich Yes,faster is flater, flater is better!!!!!

[TnRidge]

Yes,faster is flater, flater is better!!!!!

Only if you DON'T SACRIFICE accuracy to gain speed . A fast miss is still a miss or worse ...a wounded deer , especially when a bowhunter tries to shoot beyond their effective range .
So are you guys promoting 50+ yard shots that are beyond a bowhunter's effective range with the current setup , and that gaining speed is the deciding factor in extending that range ? Good bowhunters that shoot out past that range can do so with any setup because they are good archers and have good range estimating skills .

[deerslayer#1]

Speed won't extend your effective range any farther than your archery skills . Unlike a bullet , a faster arrow doesn't translate into a more accurate arrow . Speed will amplify any shooter errors , and planing issues with broadheads .
If you lack range estimating skills , speed will help you a little . I have said this before and I'll say it again . Archery is seeing how far away you can hit the bullseye , bowhunting is seeing how close you can get to it .

Quick question?.....What is the closest distance from point A to point B?.........All together now............a straight line!

I would like to know how speed is going to amplify any shooter errors? What errors can you make with a slower arrow speed and have it less amplified? Does that mean that you would hit closer to the intended target with a slower arrow speed vs. faster arrow speed with the same flaw in the same shot?

Lacking range estimating skills............tell you the truth, most of us do lack that skill to some degree, some more than others. I cant think of one thing to compensate for this other than practice and speed (flatter arrow flight). You can only buy one and that is speed, and that equals flatter arrow flight at greater distances. Most hunting bows that shoot over 310 could have one pin out to 35 yards easily....try that with a bow shooting 275 and you can use one pin but certainly will hold over/under the target. That by itself, says it all for the bowhunter.

Seeing how close you can get............ that doesnt make any one a better bowhunter. Just because your 10 yards away doesnt mean a thing. You can miss/wound from 10 yards just as easy as 30. A bowhunter needs Archer skills before he ever tries bowhunting. A good bowhunter has Archery skills and can cleanly kill from farther than, "as close as he can get".

Over the last 20 years, are there any bow companies that are trying to make hunting equipment SLOWER........year after year?.........or faster...... year after year?

To answer the original post...........yes your faster arrow will get you more distance before the arrow hits the ground, vs the slower arrow. When physics take over the arrow will have traveled farther when traveling faster. With all things being equal.

[walleyeman2006]

faster will make it shoot flatter sure but i shoot..225 fps and kill deer...i shoot 50 yards ...would i shoot at a deer at that range NO...my eye sight isnt that good for me to see a twig or fern ect.

Tnridge is absolutely right...i watched a relative of mine shoot apples at 45 yards with a darton SL 50 and put five arrows in it

too add to that as a general rule a fast bow will only amplify any problems in form .....slower bows are more forgiving..this is why target bows are te way the are

another thing i see all the time that bothers me is the statement..if you can hit a paper plate at a given distance your fine to shoot a deer at that distance......personally i think it should be narrowed down to a 3 inch dia circle...just for confidence...


why does a faster bow mean its less forgiving....simple physics...a small mistake at 180fps is a huge mistake at 300fps...the volume of air that touches the arrow in a given amount of time is almost double ...so the amount of force exerted in given direction is almost doubled too....think of the rear spoiler on a car...more down force at 100mph or at 200mph? lol

thats why longer viens or feathers are used too it puts more drag on the arrow and keeps it on a straight line....shorter veins are fine if your form is great...so is a screaming fast bow but speed isnt everything..... a set up that comfortable is allways going to be more accurate

[TnRidge]

Walleyeman ,Here is a great article on speed that backs up those facts you mentioned .

http://www.skookumarchers.com/Archery%20Library/arrow_speed.htm

And another ..
http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/TimberLine1.shtml

[Yarcher]

So let me get this straight. TnRidge, you said, "Unlike a bullet , a faster arrow doesn't translate into a more accurate arrow ."

So a faster bullet equals a more accurate bullet? I'd bed to differ. Try playing with the amount of powder in your muzzleloader or with some reloads and see if that holds true. By your reasoning, lighter bullets would be more accurate in any given gun, since they will be traveling faster.

For the record, accuracy and trajectory are two different things. You could have a trajectory that looks like a rollercoaster's hill and still be accurate, provided you have practiced with this weapon.

[TnRidge]

So let me get this straight. TnRidge, you said, "Unlike a bullet , a faster arrow doesn't translate into a more accurate arrow ."

So a faster bullet equals a more accurate bullet? I'd bed to differ. Try playing with the amount of powder in your muzzleloader or with some reloads and see if that holds true. By your reasoning, lighter bullets would be more accurate in any given gun, since they will be traveling faster.

For the record, accuracy and trajectory are two different things. You could have a trajectory that looks like a rollercoaster's hill and still be accurate, provided you have practiced with this weapon.

I agree , I probably shouldn't have used bullets as an example , maybe comparing a .270 with a 30/30 at 300 yards would have been a better example ? I was just trying to make a point that "flatter shooting isn't allways more accurate " . I think you got the point I was trying to make .;)

One example I have read regarding excessive arrow speeds effect on accuracy is holding your arm out the window at 30 mph and changing the angle of your arm . The resistance isn't nearly as great as it is at 55 mph .
Now relate that to an arrow that is launched with a broadhead attached to the end ,and it has the same increased wind deflection at higher speeds .

[walleyeman2006]

ive seen this argument too many times facts are facts .....physics laws cant be broken...

and at 50 yards a gust of wind can make a shot end up 1 foot off....especially with light weight arrows

if your comfortable and good at that range more power to you..but speed wont get you any more accuracy...no bow ever will unless your shooting something that doesnt fit at all then it can lol

i killed my first deer at 20 yards with a 35 lb draw compound it ran about 50 yards...lol i had 3 pins to shoot to 25 yards

well at least i got the bow out tonight do to this thread,,,and looked over the carp slayer.....about time to go shoot some fertilizer for the garden:chillin:

[Kelly Johnson]

I would like to know how speed is going to amplify any shooter errors?
Not the speed in itself but the things it takes to get speed.
A. Pulling extra draw weight
B. Draw length just a hair too long to squeek out more speed
C. Shorter brace
D. Wind Planing broadhead
E. exacerbated wind drift due to ligheter arrow.

You can miss/wound from 10 yards just as easy as 30.
Now that's simply incorrect. Why not shoot them at 50 than? 80? 100?

Simple geometry states you can have an arrow angle and trajectory thats a clean miss at 30 yards that's a vital hit at 10.

[deerslayer#1]

Not the speed in itself but the things it takes to get speed.
A. Pulling extra draw weight
B. Draw length just a hair too long to squeek out more speed
C. Shorter brace
D. Wind Planing broadhead
E. exacerbated wind drift due to ligheter arrow.


Now that's simply incorrect. Why not shoot them at 50 than? 80? 100?

Simple geometry states you can have an arrow angle and trajectory thats a clean miss at 30 yards that's a vital hit at 10.

A, You dont need extra draw weight to get more fps. Todays 60 lb draw equipment far exceed 70-80 lb draw from 10 years ago.
B, no need for too much draw length I agree, I also see a lot of that.
C, brace height is not makeing a difference at hunting distances
D, Many many broadheads that fly straight at 330 fps, thats a fact
E, Wind drift at 30 yards.....how much would that be?

Simple geometry?..trajectory is the key word in your statement.........Any bow shooting 320 fps or more will still hit the vitals at 30 yards, the same as it does at 10 yards, with the same pin and no hold over. Remember you said vitals, not a "DOT" on a target. Now that trajectory is going to be a problem with slower bows with the same situation. Slower speeds like 260 fps will definately miss the vitals with the same situation, in fact miss completly.

Why not 50, 80 or 100 yards?...........with todays equipment 80, 100 is a bit far. 50 yards.......leave the state of Michigan and you will see the potential todays equipment has to offer!

[Kelly Johnson]

trajectory is the key word in your statement
True but we dont shoot in one dimension. The shorter braces tend to emphasise the left right misses...was my point.

Everything else you said is simply conjecture and opinion;)

And I have left the state. And I regularly (well...ok....Ive been out of it this year but:D ) I USED to regularly shoot out to 70-80-100 yards.

And I actually found that my slower target rig with heavy arrows were more accurate for me than my BK2 shooting 317?

[Drop Tine]

With these faster bows out there, will you gain more distance with more speed ?

Yes, you will be able gain distance with more speed. Everything on earth drops at a constant velocity of 32 ft/s squared. Of course, wind/air resisitance of an object can change it. For instance, dropping a bb and a piece of paper of the same weight, the bb will of course land first. Rifling, and spin caused by fletching will affect this as well.
If you drop a lead ball at the same exact time you shoot an equal size/weight lead ball perfectly horizontally, they will land at exactly the same time (of course the lead ball will be about 100 yards further away).
Likewise, if you add speed to an arrow, it will travel further before it drops to the ground.

[BUCKWIZZARD]

Only if you DON'T SACRIFICE accuracy to gain speed . A fast miss is still a miss or worse ...a wounded deer , especially when a bowhunter tries to shoot beyond their effective range .
So are you guys promoting 50+ yard shots that are beyond a bowhunter's effective range with the current setup , and that gaining speed is the deciding factor in extending that range ? Good bowhunters that shoot out past that range can do so with any setup because they are good archers and have good range estimating skills . Not promoting anything like shooting 50 yards at a deer. Its very simple to understand if your not stuck on a faster bow shoots bad. Its proven that a bow shooting 260 sighted at 70 yards will shoot just fine at 70 yards. Now take a newer bow say Bowtech Allegeince at 58 lbs 29 inch draw over 7 inch BH and Carbon express arrow at 320 and its shooting well over 300fps. Shoot at a TARGET at 50 yards with both bows and you will without a doubt choose the faster one as being the nicer bow for hunting. Why is a bow shooting faster going to sacrifice accuracy? Go to the bow shop and try a new bow, you will be impressed at how well they shoot. I hear you say its getting close that matters, let me tell you something, I dont want a buck at 10 yards i want him at 30. You also say you shot bows for a company but havent shot an arrow through a chrono for 25 years, let me tell you the bows have become much better since you were into it!!!!

[HoytKimberShimano]

It should be compltely obvious here that while speed may help with up/down performance, it doesn't make a hill-a-beans difference for left/right. As far as distance goes, plain and VERY SIMPLE trigonometry will prove that distance DOES aggravate any errors at the bow end of things. Sorry, but speed WILL NOT help you there. The only way that it may make any difference is if it affects your mind's ability to anticipate the shot, but seeing as how that's an issue that experienced rifleman deal with, it's not all that likely when shooting an arrow.

The primary question here was does "speed=distance"? Well, I would have failed any one of my classes for writing that equation. Speed = distance/time

You spend all day arguing about this. In the end, as has been written in these forums many times, you should only ever take a shot at a deer that you're confident and comfortable with. Your ability is the limiting factor, not the bow.

Sure, the bow can help. We haven't even gotten into momentum here, which isn't surprising with the ridiculous hangups on speed, but that is probably the reason that those slower/heavier target bows perform better....

[deerslayer#1]

Sure, the bow can help. We haven't even gotten into momentum here, which isn't surprising with the ridiculous hangups on speed, but that is probably the reason that those slower/heavier target bows perform better....


target bows do shoot more consistant............try sitting in a tree with a 44 in bow with a 4 ft stabilizer sticking out, and a 3x scope............hunting bows have thier place...........in a tree.
Are you going to convince me that if your off 2 inches to the right or left at 30 yards, you would be farther off with a faster arrow?

I "KNOW" that if your arrow flies 250 fps at 40 yards the drop/arc is 3.6 ft compared to 310 fps the drop/arc is 2.3 ft..........that definately makes a difference in up and down flight......the faster bow will be closer if the shooter is off a few yards on range estimation........now how is the faster arrow going to be farther off left or right just because the arrow is faster...Please explain?

Simple physics tells me that the less time an arrow is in flight, thats less time gravity has to pull it down.....thats why bows are getting faster......and arrows are getting lighter.....simple physics!

[TnRidge]

Not promoting anything like shooting 50 yards at a deer. Its very simple to understand if your not stuck on a faster bow shoots bad. Its proven that a bow shooting 260 sighted at 70 yards will shoot just fine at 70 yards. Now take a newer bow say Bowtech Allegeince at 58 lbs 29 inch draw over 7 inch BH and Carbon express arrow at 320 and its shooting well over 300fps. Shoot at a TARGET at 50 yards with both bows and you will without a doubt choose the faster one as being the nicer bow for hunting. Why is a bow shooting faster going to sacrifice accuracy? Go to the bow shop and try a new bow, you will be impressed at how well they shoot. I hear you say its getting close that matters, let me tell you something, I dont want a buck at 10 yards i want him at 30. You also say you shot bows for a company but havent shot an arrow through a chrono for 25 years, let me tell you the bows have become much better since you were into it!!!!

I just hate to see guys use speed as a crutch to try to gain effective shooting range ,when the focus should be on developing accuracy with good shooting form , and using good bowhunting skills to place them within their effective range .
Instead of worrying about losing 3 fps here and there , focus on getting the most accuracy out of the bow and quieting the bow down as much as possible . A deer's reaction time to shot noise is much quicker than the fastest bow ,and lighter arrows increase shot noise .
I have 3 bows , 2006 Kodiak Outdoors Titan 34 , a 2006 Whisper Creek Innovator , and a Mathews FX .
All of the bows are rated around 315 fps . I haven't shot them through a chrono , because my focus is a quiet bow with a medium weight carbon arrow to obtain the most accuracy with fixed blade heads that WILL wind plane at higher speeds . My effective range is 35 yards in the woods ,and my average shot distance is 25-30 yards with any bow .
And yes I did work for Andy Andrews last year - the founder and designer of Whisper Creek Archery .
He left the company ,and I so did I . My primary job was to test bows and give feedback regarding performance , durability and help resolve any quality issues .
Andy designed and tested the speed at the shop , and they sent me the bows to put through the rigors . I had to shoot over 100 arrows a day . He used to be an engineer for HCA before he started his own company , we became good friends and hope to work together again when he starts a new company .
Once again , his primary focus will be on sound reduction and producing quiet bows for hunters .

[TnRidge]

Sure, the bow can help. We haven't even gotten into momentum here, which isn't surprising with the ridiculous hangups on speed, but that is probably the reason that those slower/heavier target bows perform better....


target bows do shoot more consistant............try sitting in a tree with a 44 in bow with a 4 ft stabilizer sticking out, and a 3x scope............hunting bows have thier place...........in a tree.
Are you going to convince me that if your off 2 inches to the right or left at 30 yards, you would be farther off with a faster arrow?

I "KNOW" that if your arrow flies 250 fps at 40 yards the drop/arc is 3.6 ft compared to 310 fps the drop/arc is 2.3 ft..........that definately makes a difference in up and down flight......the faster bow will be closer if the shooter is off a few yards on range estimation........now how is the faster arrow going to be farther off left or right just because the arrow is faster...Please explain?

Simple physics tells me that the less time an arrow is in flight, thats less time gravity has to pull it down.....thats why bows are getting faster......and arrows are getting lighter.....simple physics!

Again , I'll try to explain it using simple logic . Going back to the arm out the window example . Your hand is the broadhead and your arm is the arrow . Or if you are brave , just hold an arrow out the window . Now drive down the road at 20 mph and move your hand to the left or right . Not much wind resistance ,and it's easy to correct .
Now increase the speed to 45 mph ,and move your hand slighty . It doesn't take much deviation left , right , up or down to create allot of wild movement and is harder to correct and stabilize .
Now take this example and imagine a fixed blade broadhead on the end of an arrow . Same thing happens . It's called wind planing ! Simple physics .

[deerslayer#1]

Again , I'll try to explain it using simple logic . Going back to the arm out the window example . Your hand is the broadhead and your arm is the arrow . Or if you are brave , just hold an arrow out the window . Now drive down the road at 20 mph and move your hand to the left or right . Not much wind resistance ,and it's easy to correct .
Now increase the speed to 45 mph ,and move your hand slighty . It doesn't take much deviation left , right , up or down to create allot of wild movement and is harder to correct and stabilize .
Now take this example and imagine a fixed blade broadhead on the end of an arrow . Same thing happens . It's called wind planing ! Simple physics .

simple logic tells me to take off the fixed blade broadhead that is planing and get one of the many..... many..... expandables on the market, that fly straight..........so simple!!
Why would I hold an arrow out the window at 45mph to see what happens, when I can shoot it at over 200 mph and see it fly?

70lb draw 350 grain arrow 300 fps=69.9 ke
70lb draw 350 grain arrow 290 fps=65.3 ke
70lb draw 350 grain arrow 280 fps=60.9

Now check this out........60lb draw 300 grain arrow 325 fps=70.3 ke

speed equals flatter arrow flight and more ke energy...........enough said!!

[walleyeman2006]

broad head aside it the same logic still holds true at the back end of the arrow...its the fletching comes off the bow wrong do to a mistake...the faster the arrow is moving the more wildly the arrow will fly


if you can watch your arrow flex comming off the bow with out a camera lol your doing well...a small deviation in that flex aka a mistake is what we are talking about.........any way you slice this a faster bow is less forgiving...its fact ....its on the easton site along with many others....we are talking about human error...that is simply amplified by a fast bow and reduced by longer veins and wheels instead of cams..

most hunting bows are shooting to be between 240-and 300+ fps these days i think all a few of us are saying is they are all fast enough and to find the right speed combination to shoot comfortably and accurite and not worry about flat out speed

[Kelly Johnson]

simple logic tells me to take off the fixed blade broadhead that is planing and get one of the many..... many..... expandables on the market, that fly straight..........so simple!!

Crutch again. Band aid after band aid.

"Get out of this state"....and see how the outfitters that do it for a living feel about mechanicals;)

Now don't get me wrong. I've had hot bows. Not all but most. Turbotec, Patriot Dually, BK2, My 2003 cougar 3 was a barn burner and I had it up to 324 playing around, and many MANY more....but I'd NEVER hunt with a setup that fast.

I heavy the arrow up to put me in the 275-280fps range and have ferocious momentum.

And please....no more "try the new latest greatest bows! You'll be suprised!"

I have. I do. And I'm not:p

We can argue till we're blue. Simply don't agree.

But to insinuate that you'll be more accurate at farther distances with a faster bow is a farce gents. Way to many variables to account for.

Still can't buy practice.

[BUCKWIZZARD]

Crutch again. Band aid after band aid.

"Get out of this state"....and see how the outfitters that do it for a living feel about mechanicals;)

Now don't get me wrong. I've had hot bows. Not all but most. Turbotec, Patriot Dually, BK2, My 2003 cougar 3 was a barn burner and I had it up to 324 playing around, and many MANY more....but I'd NEVER hunt with a setup that fast.

I heavy the arrow up to put me in the 275-280fps range and have ferocious momentum.

And please....no more "try the new latest greatest bows! You'll be suprised!"

I have. I do. And I'm not:p

We can argue till we're blue. Simply don't agree.

But to insinuate that you'll be more accurate at farther distances with a faster bow is a farce gents. Way to many variables to account for.

Still can't buy practice. Man I thought the bow companies knew what they were talking about, they must be wrong!!!!! They had me believing that a flater faster arrow would make it easier for hunting. So should I sell my Allegience and buy a slower bow or just shoot a heavier arrow? It allready shoots straight through a deer at 65 yards but I suppose a little more weight for penitration wouldnt hurt. Im currently shooting nitrons because it shoots them so well at 312fps,what would be a better choice, something with a 2 inch blade or something? A bigger blade might make a bigger hole in the lungs so im wondering what head to use. I wish I still had my SQ2 it felt like a toy, compared the Allegeince that feels like a gun going off. And to think I thought that they new what they were saying!!! I actually thought if I just practiced with my bow that I would be able to shoot it well at any speed. They must really be good salesmen because I really thought all the new bows that I tried( pretty much all of them) were impressive compared to anything i shot 4 years ago and so much faster. So I cant wait til a bow shoots a 55o grain arrow at 290 that will be better right.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[gunner87]

"too add to that as a general rule a fast bow will only amplify any problems in form .....slower bows are more forgiving..this is why target bows are te way the are" wallyman2006

Sorry Man target bows are slow because they are long axle to axle with large brace heights if they could get a bow 40 inches long with 8.5 inches of brace height shooting 320 they all would be shooting them. But I think his question is answered SPEED=DISTANCE

[Kelly Johnson]

But I think his question is answered SPEED=DISTANCE
I'll agree there. You'll certainly have to walk a lot farther to fetch that arrow you missed him with:p


Man I thought the bow companies knew what they were talking about, they must be wrong!!!!! They had me believing that a flater faster arrow would make it easier for hunting.

No...what they had you believing is that you can't shoot worth a darn and a new bow will cure what ails ya. And guess what....It worked! :D

I've had the honor of meeting a few of the designers in the archery world. One in particular laughed wholeheartedly at the "speed craze" saying " I made them more efficient...that's what I strive for. They wanna launch a toothpick at a wallhanger that's fine but don't blame the bow when he don't fall right over":yikes:

[Michihunter]

Kelly- You know I respect the hell out of you but when you start saying using a mechanical is a crutch, well you really are going out on a limb. The same could be true of your contention of using a slower bow. Faster is definitely going to increase your range, but only if you are good enough to enjoy that benefit. Not all shooters are competent enough to shoot 300+fps but that does NOT mean that it can't be done effectively. The major benefit of shooting a faster bow for me is that I can get a lot more weight (ie: momentum) out of the same setup withoyut sacrificing a lot of speed. In my instance, 292fps with a 455gr arrow for a blistering 86 ft lbs of KE. And by the way, I use a Montec allthough I wouldn't hesitate to put a Spitfire on the end of my arrow.;)

[michigandeerslayer]

Man i opened a can of worms here. I appears every one has there opinion and i have mine. Thanks for the help guys

[Kelly Johnson]

Michi.....Shhhh....I shoot mechanicals:D

The expandables themselves aren't and issue. But the criteria and circumstamces for the decision to use them ( as was described in the post I replied to) should NOT be " I can't get a fixed blade head to fly right".

Therein lies the "crutch"

I do contend that a faster bow will not increase your effective range though.

If you can't hit the DOT at 50 yards with a slow, 40" ata 8.5" brace target rig you aint gonna get any closer with a 6.25"brace 33"ata screamer doin 315.

Will you have less drop? Yes.
Will you have a slighlty flatter trajectory? Yes.
Not all shooters are competent enough to shoot 300+fps but that does NOT mean that it can't be done effectively

Tue, true and true.;)


Come on man...it's the off season and I aint shot since Dec with this dang new house and renovations:dizzy: . Let me be argumentative:lol:

[HoytKimberShimano]

My left/right comment was made because the primary argument being used here to support a faster bow making your effective range further is trajectory - which is a valid point to a certain extent. However, that flatter trajectory will not help your be more "EFFECTIVE" from a left/right standpoint at further distances. If you're increasing poundage, etc then you're probably going to be even worse off.....

Just because bow companies push speed doesn't mean they're "right" or know something that we don't. What they do know is marketing and that SPEED is probably the single BIGGEST selling spec on any bow out there right now. There is no other spec out there for bows that garners as much hype as speed and every company out there knows it and exploits it. Speed sells bows, it's that simple....

PERSONALLY, speed isn't a factor to me. I shoot lower poundage because it's comfortable to me (and extremely quiet, and easy to pull). Ironically, my effective range increased. Really, COMFORT = DISTANCE or increased effective range in my book. But that is me.

The first deer I ever killed with an old PSE Laser-something I think. It was a big bow, I believe with laminated wood limbs. It worked just fine....and I was 14.

Get a bow that fits you, is comfortable to YOU and your effective range will increase. Simple as that.

[HoytKimberShimano]

Just because I see it coming..... Since "Speed sells bows" there must be something to it..... Maybe there is, but I believe that it is more hype than anything. Again my opinion.....

[fulldraw]

Just because your bow is faster and yes it will make the arrow travel farther, What I would watch out for is your kentic energy at a farther distance decreases and this is what makes penetration and the less penetration you get. Makes for bad shot placement and makes the animal suffer longer.

Persnally give me a bow that travels about 260 and really high kenetic energy and you will have a bow that you will kill anything is the world.

[FREEPOP]

I agree with what Fulldraw eluded to. Shoot 50+ yards with a mechanical broadhead and light arrow combination is a recipe for disappointment.

Another speed hype thread. I've seen some very good archers shoot 50+ with long bows, instinctive, with fingers and "telephone pole arrows" and I was very impressed. They got that way by work, plain and simple. Everyone wants to get that good but they don't want to work at it, so they think they can buy it.

I should come up with a "snake oil" that'll make you a better archer. Rub on daily and you'll be a master in a week, only $19.95. :lol:

[kingfishcam]

A bow shooting lite arrows, say 325 grains, with a 320 fps rating, will still be shooting 300-310 at 40 yards. So I do not think the drop in KE at 40 yards will prevent a pass through.

[Joe Archer]

In the best immitation of the "Miller High Life Driver"...
Shooting deer with a bow at 50 yards???
You must be crazy!
<----<<<

[FREEPOP]

I would never consider a 50 yard shot on a MIchigan deer.

Mule deer and Elk in Colorado, are different and the reason I practice at extended ranges. 40 to 50 yard shots there are almost a daily occurance, but it's rare to be able to salk in closer.

[michigandeerslayer]

I shot a doe 3 years ago, with my mathews mq1 and it was a pass thru and i measured it out after the shot and it was 41 yards. So long shot are possaible

[fulldraw]

I don't think anybody is saying that it is not possible, if you practice at that distance and are really comfortable that you can make that shot accuratly.

Personnly I have chosen that I would never shoot a deer past 30 yrds. and longest shot that I have ever taken at a deer was 28 yrds.

All I can say is if you have practice at that distance and are very comfortable about how your gear reacts at that distance and are accurate, go for it.

[john warren]

ok,,, first yes to a given point you will be able to shoot farther with better accurosy.

will this help you in situations other then target shooting?
probably not.
unless your bow is absolutly silent , the sound from your bow will still alert the deer in the same time as as a slower bow .
ask any archer if he has ever had a deer duck an arrow or jump the string as they say.
now as you extend the range you give a greater time span from the release of the arrow until it impacts. some of this is made up by the increase in speed.... lets say 20 feet per second? the sound is still traveling at the same speed. if you increase the yardage by 20 yards . and it takes ,for the sake of argument , your arrow 1 second to cover 20 yard, the deer will have heard your sound well before your arrow has passed the additional 20 feet per second that you gained in speed. will it matter? i don't know , but i won't risk wounding a deer to find out.

[TnRidge]

I don't think anybody is saying that it is not possible, if you practice at that distance and are really comfortable that you can make that shot accuratly.

Personnly I have chosen that I would never shoot a deer past 30 yrds. and longest shot that I have ever taken at a deer was 28 yrds.

All I can say is if you have practice at that distance and are very comfortable about how your gear reacts at that distance and are accurate, go for it.

It's all about knowing your effective accuarcy range . I have shot deer out to 40 yards , but I'll take a 25 yard slam dunk anyday . Most of my stand sites are placed within my effective range in a terrain bottleneck . I walk deer trails in the offseason and look up for THE BEST TREE to place my stand in relation to several deer trails within the tightest bottleneck and with the prevailing wind in mind for the season I will be using that stand .
I would rather use my bowhunting and woodsmanship skills to place me in the best spot to make an ethical , clean , slam dunk shot . That should be everyone's goal .
Don't get me wrong about speed , just don't use it as a crutch like Kelly said . Work on accuracy and shot placement , know your effective range ,and place yourself within that range .

[FREEPOP]

Speed will allow you to shoot farther.

Speed will not make you more accurate, actually the opposite will happen.

[deerslayer#1]

It's all about knowing your effective accuarcy range . I have shot deer out to 40 yards , but I'll take a 25 yard slam dunk anyday . Most of my stand sites are placed within my effective range in a terrain bottleneck . I walk deer trails in the offseason and look up for THE BEST TREE to place my stand in relation to several deer trails within the tightest bottleneck and with the prevailing wind in mind for the season I will be using that stand .
I would rather use my bowhunting and woodsmanship skills to place me in the best spot to make an ethical , clean , slam dunk shot . That should be everyone's goal .
Don't get me wrong about speed , just don't use it as a crutch like Kelly said . Work on accuracy and shot placement , know your effective range ,and place yourself within that range .

I dont think anybody has suggested that practice, accuracy, and shot placement should be avoided because of faster arrow flight.........certainly faster arrow flight is not going to be a crutch as you and others are claiming it to be. Nothing is going to make up for a bad shot!
When you hear about deer jumping the string, and arrows hitting branches, and arrows passing just under the deer, these are the things that flatter arrow flight, and faster speed reduce in hunting situations.
Think about this....an arrow speed of 330 and 270........at 50 yards the slower arrow is roughly 30 ft behind. Considering a deers reaction time of 1/10 of a second, that 30 ft is significant.
I hate to break it to you folks.........deer and elk are consistantly taken at 50 yards all over the US....Believe it or not, some states if you climb up in a tree stand, you may never get a shot in years. You stalk them, and when you get a shot you might not have time to get that range finder out, or have the deer standing at your 20 yard bait pile.
No such thing as a slam dunk in bowhunting............I used to think like that.......?

[TnRidge]

There is NO BOW MADE THAT IS FASTER THAN A DEER'S REACTION TO SOUND!
I shot 6 deer last year , all slam dunk shots . Speed was never a factor ! I could have shot a dozen more that I passed up .... all slam dunk shots . I quit hunting on November 17th because I had a freezer full of venison . We can take 3 does a day here in Tn. ,and I shot three in one day from the same stand . All 25 yard slam dunk shots . I ended up with 2 bucks and 4 does . One buck was a nice 10 point hanging on the wall .
I'm not trying to brag , I'm just showing that using good bowhunting skills is more important than using speed to increase my distance and risk losing a deer . I don't care how fast my bow is , I will not take shots farther than 40 yards .
I think those who are obsessed with speed and faster is better in all situations are just egomanics that have to prove they have something they perceive as better in their opinion . My bow is faster than yours . It's childish . In fact I have seen young kids understand the importance of a forgiving bow over speed than some of the guys on this forum .

[TnRidge]

Speed will allow you to shoot farther.

Speed will not make you more accurate, actually the opposite will happen.

Exactly !

[BUCKWIZZARD]

Speed will allow you to shoot farther.

Speed will not make you more accurate, actually the opposite will happen. Not for me it didnt. I used to get a little up and down shot groups at 40-70 yards. I got a faster bow and now my groups are quite a bit tighter at long range. I hunt from the ground a lot and its harder to judge distance when they come running by, now I dont have to be exact on the yardage. I can actually be off by 10 yards(i wont be) and still make a good shot. With my older bows it would be complete miss or worse. I consider it better and it has nothing to do with anything, but speed. Tune your bow, tune your arrows and practice, fast bows shoot real good!!!! I still never seen anyone go buy a new bow for hunting and get a slower one,wonder why.

[Kelly Johnson]

With my older bows it would be complete miss or worse.fast bows shoot real good!!!!

Well I, for one, am glad you got a faster bow that shoots real good than:p

[deerslayer#1]

There is NO BOW MADE THAT IS FASTER THAN A DEER'S REACTION TO SOUND!
I shot 6 deer last year , all slam dunk shots . Speed was never a factor ! I could have shot a dozen more that I passed up .... all slam dunk shots . I quit hunting on November 17th because I had a freezer full of venison . We can take 3 does a day here in Tn. ,and I shot three in one day from the same stand . All 25 yard slam dunk shots . I ended up with 2 bucks and 4 does . One buck was a nice 10 point hanging on the wall .
I'm not trying to brag , I'm just showing that using good bowhunting skills is more important than using speed to increase my distance and risk losing a deer . I don't care how fast my bow is , I will not take shots farther than 40 yards .
I think those who are obsessed with speed and faster is better in all situations are just egomanics that have to prove they have something they perceive as better in their opinion . My bow is faster than yours . It's childish . In fact I have seen young kids understand the importance of a forgiving bow over speed than some of the guys on this forum .



Seriously........its good you know your limitations........and another thing........your either shooting deer that are deaf, or your arrow is faster than the deers reaction to sound...............oh I forgot YOU have the quietest bow on the market.........

[Michihunter]

I think those who are obsessed with speed and faster is better in all situations are just egomanics that have to prove they have something they perceive as better in their opinion . My bow is faster than yours . It's childish . In fact I have seen young kids understand the importance of a forgiving bow over speed than some of the guys on this forum .TNRidge- Why does a fast bow have to be a crutch in your perception? Do you honestly have a clue as to what forgiveness is? Todays bows are all forgiving. BH, Ata, DW, DL, Reflex riser, Deflex Riser, all come into play and there is no magic number or spec that can determine what is more forgiving. It is subjective to the shooter. Period. Are you saying that people that own fast bows are not as good of hunters as you and your slower bow? Or that because someone owns a fast bow they somehow don't have good bowhunting skills or woodsmanship? Is there a reason that you feel there is some kind of stigma to owning a fast bow? I got some news for ya my friend, there are plenty of hunters that are not only as good as you, shooting fast bows, but I'd wager there are even BETTER hunters out there than you shooting faster bows. Your way is ONE way. There are MANY other ways to accomplish the same goal. Lighten up already. Speed will increase distance period. That was the question. If you don't think it will, then you are sadly mistaking. If you prefer slower then so be it. But don't get on your high horse and start calling people egomaniacs because they enjoy a faster bow. That is what I would consider childish.

[FREEPOP]

Tnridge and I agree (correct me if I'm wrong) that some people try to shortcut the time involved to get intimate with your bow by buying a fast one so errors in distance judgement and impact are minimised. Sure that is a bonus of shooting a fast bow, but there are many more factors involved and some trade offs. Torque, wind planning, brace height, proper form, etc. etc all become much more critical with increased speeds.

What you personally shoot is your choice and I wish you the best with it. The reason I respond to these threads is not because I want to argue with you guys, it's because I don't want people new to the sport thinking that they must have the fastest bow out there. They should understand all the factors and tools involved with becoming the best archer possible.

[TnRidge]

Tnridge and I agree (correct me if I'm wrong) that some people try to shortcut the time involved to get intimate with your bow by buying a fast one so errors in distance judgement and impact are minimised. Sure that is a bonus of shooting a fast bow, but there are many more factors involved and some trade offs. Torque, wind planning, brace height, proper form, etc. etc all become much more critical with increased speeds.

What you personally shoot is your choice and I wish you the best with it. The reason I respond to these threads is not because I want to argue with you guys, it's because I don't want people new to the sport thinking that they must have the fastest bow out there. They should understand all the factors and tools involved with becoming the best archer possible.

Good post !

[Big50blaster]

rasin your peep higher on the string makes it shoot flatter. same as a scope on a rifle makes it shoot flatter over a farthar distance:)

[deerslayer#1]

rasin your peep higher on the string makes it shoot flatter. same as a scope on a rifle makes it shoot flatter over a farthar distance:)

peep sights slow your arrow, why would you use one of those ? ;)

nothings going to make an arrow, or bullet from a rifle shoot flatter than speed.

[Big50blaster]

peep sights slow your arrow, why would you use one of those ? ;)

nothings going to make an arrow, or bullet from a rifle shoot flatter than speed.

take a iron sight rifle and put a scope on it

use the same shells

it will have a flatter trajectory

same thing is true of a peep sight

ever seen a picture of that bow maker that anchors under his chin? this is why he does it, flatter trajectory;)

[FREEPOP]

Trajectory is always the same, nothing but more powder will change that. Moving the sight up just causes you to shoot really low at close ranges as you are shooting up to the "line of sight".

[deerslayer#1]

take a iron sight rifle and put a scope on it

use the same shells

it will have a flatter trajectory

same thing is true of a peep sight

ever seen a picture of that bow maker that anchors under his chin? this is why he does it, flatter trajectory;)

Big 50.........you might be confusing FLATTER.......with FARTHER:dizzy: ...........

[Big50blaster]

Trajectory is always the same, nothing but more powder will change that. Moving the sight up just causes you to shoot really low at close ranges as you are shooting up to the "line of sight".

if i shoot federal premiums in my 7 mag with iron sights I have a maximum distance of about 280 yards with a 3" max drop from line of sight

if i shoot federal premiums in my 7 mag with a scope I have a maximum distance of about 323 yards with a 3" max drop from line of sight

no more powder needed

[FREEPOP]

Shoot them both at 10 yards and see what you find.

The trajectory is fixed by the powder, bullet and barrel, etc, only temp. wind etc. will vary. The trajectory is a parabolic curve, rasing the sighting plane only changes where on the curve the line of sight is.

Hell why not get some rings for your scope that put it 5" above your barrel and you could shoot half a mile with only 3" drop?

[deerslayer#1]

if i shoot federal premiums in my 7 mag with iron sights I have a maximum distance of about 280 yards with a 3" max drop from line of sight

if i shoot federal premiums in my 7 mag with a scope I have a maximum distance of about 323 yards with a 3" max drop from line of sight

no more powder needed

Do you really think the bullet shoots flatter with the scope attached.....really? You may want to go to Federal's ballistics charts and read them..........or some basic rifle marksmanship literature at the library......

[Big50blaster]

Shoot them both at 10 yards and see what you find.

The trajectory is fixed by the powder, bullet and barrel, etc, only temp. wind etc. will vary. The trajectory is a parabolic curve, rasing the sighting plane only changes where on the curve the line of sight is.

Hell why not get some rings for your scope that put it 5" above your barrel and you could shoot half a mile with only 3" drop?

yeah, but then you wouldn't be within 3" on the close ranges:lol:
most guys dont have a clue bout this, you do

if you are shootin x's at a given exact range it is useless info

if you are hunting it can make a difference(utalize your best trajectory for one aimpoint, especially out west)

IMO it aint a good idea for bow accuracy cause you have to change your anchor point when movin your peep

most guys also don't realize that you can shoot the most powerful gun in the world(pick your favrite gun) perfectly horizontal to the ground and drop a rock from the same height and they will both hit the ground at the same time

[Big50blaster]

Do you really think the bullet shoots flatter with the scope attached.....really? You may want to go to Federal's ballistics charts and read them..........or some basic rifle marksmanship literature at the library......

the stats I quoted is from their max 3" site in charts...same ammo...same test barrel....it is the paraballic curve that does it

[deerslayer#1]

yeah, but then you wouldn't be within 3" on the close ranges:lol:
most guys dont have a clue bout this, you do

if you are shootin x's at a given exact range it is useless info

if you are hunting it can make a difference(utalize your best trajectory for one aimpoint, especially out west)

IMO it aint a good idea for bow accuracy cause you have to change your anchor point when movin your peep

most guys also don't realize that you can shoot the most powerful gun in the world(pick your favrite gun) perfectly horizontal to the ground and drop a rock from the same height and they will both hit the ground at the same time

But most realize that the bullet that was fired is alot farther away, in the same amount of time, than the one next your foot........(To stay on the topic of the original post) I guess speed has a lot to do with distance!SPEED=DISTANCE ;)

[michigandeerslayer]

But i would perfer to shoot them at 10-15 yards, so it doesnt matter as long has i hit the pump staion and have super sharp broadhead's:D

[Big50blaster]

http://www.eastonarchery.com/articles/aluminumaremyfav.asp

speed may equal greater horizontal distance but when it comes down to arrow placement at long distances on live animals probably doesnt matter much

[FREEPOP]

Truely amaxing that one of the greatest bow hunters agree with Tnridge and I :p

Thanks Blaster :)

[Michihunter]

Freepop- What exactly is it that he agrees with you guys about? You shoot aluminums too? Because that was what he's promoting in that article. In fact, he said that he chooses to shoot the aluminums BECAUSE they are straighter and less prone to touchiness than lighter carbon shafts. And he likes the fact that they can absorb more of the bows energy. Which wouild also mean that the faster the bow, the heavier the arrow he would be able to shoot. Nowhere does he say he prefers a slower bow. Not sure I follow your line of thinking here. And guess what, he even goes on to say something I said in an earlier post on this thread-"There is almost always more than one right way to do anything". So I hope whatever it is you read into that article makes ya smile cuz I just don't see it.:sad:

[HoytKimberShimano]

Last time I checked, any physics book or introductory dynamics books says that speed = distance/time I don't want any current students out there getting confused. :dizzy:

I'm confused why this thread still has any life. I can guarantee you that there are people out there who can shoot an arrow with greater precision and accuracy with bows that shoot 250 fps than they could with a bow shooting 310 fps. It all comes down to confidence and comfort.

Clearly we can argue all day long about whether or not speed could help someone who may not know their comfort and confidence within archery yet.