Ordonez

[ckhanna]

Ordonez SUCKS!!! Why can't we get a right fielder that can make a decision to actually catch a ball and not let it drop in. How many errors in 2 games for him???

[Little Roober]

I don't care if he only has 1 error, he still sucks. :rant:

[Pinefarm]

Nice pickup from Inge/Casey.

[ckhanna]

Inge is a rock, Awsome 3rd baseman

[ckhanna]

I say put Sheffield on Right!!!

[Little Roober]

I say put Sheffield on Right!!!

What a concept. :idea:

[ckhanna]

Just call me Leland!!!

[Pinefarm]

They don't want that big bat getting hurt in right. IMHO

[Little Roober]

But if he actually caught the ball 1 outta 10 times think of all the runs he'd save right there!!:yikes:

[ckhanna]

Anyone except Ordonez, I think his bat is better than his fielding

[wild bill]

after watching this last inning i came here to post my rant about him and it looks like i was to slow.:lol:

[Little Roober]

He doesnt have that much of a bat either...

[mparks]

He doesnt have that much of a bat either...

...except for the homer to win the ALCS.

He looks like the Michellen Man out there. It's a wonder that he can see out there let alone field with that ski mask.

[ckhanna]

That's my point, I know it won't happen but It wouldn't bother me at all if he were to be traded somewhere

[Little Roober]

...except for the homer to win the ALCS.

He looks like the Michellen Man out there. It's a wonder that he can see out there let alone field with that ski mask.

FLUKE!!!!!

and can you say BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ cut!

[ckhanna]

...except for the homer to win the ALCS.

He looks like the Michellen Man out there. It's a wonder that he can see out there let alone field with that ski mask.

Even the sun shines on a dog's ass sometimes

[Little Roober]

Yup, that about wraps it up right there.

[ckhanna]

Nice Pitching Verlander!!!

[thousandcasts]

Lemme guess, did the Tigers fall back to earth or something?

[ckhanna]

I don't think it is a matter of falling back to earth. It is more of trying to live up to the expectations now

[Little Roober]

Just Ordonez. Well, he never really left.....

Yea, that too ^^^

[ckhanna]

I think like that have already stated, teams are going to play them alot tougher this year. They realize that they are not a easy win now

[Little Roober]

They probably figured that out a little earlier than this year....

[ckhanna]

They figured it out last year mid season when they started falling apart

[Pinefarm]

No. It's called game 3 in 30 degree temps. If they play .500 for April AND nobody else is hurt, the Tigers are in good shape.

[Little Roober]

None of any of my sports have ever been cancelled due to 30 degrees. That's just pathetic. If fingers arent falling off and lightning zappin trees, theres no need to worry.

[ckhanna]

Speaking of crappy Ordonez, nice job. Once again chasing the ball around the field and letting in runs:rant: :rant: :rant:

[Little Roober]

My brother took the TV what happened/score? thx.

[bucko12pt]

Bottom of the 7th. Better ship out Monroe too, he just misplayed one.


Ordonez redeems himself and Casey screws up.

Sounds like the whole team needs to go!!

[ckhanna]

Everyone just fell apart. EXUSE!!! Wind!! lol, come on, those were easy pop ups

[Little Roober]

Whacks bro in back of head and takes clicker...

[Pinefarm]

The game isn't cancelled, they're playing. :confused: If any of you guys played outfield in freezing weather, legs get a little stiff standing there. Look at the crap play Monroe just made, and Monroe is great. He let a very easy ball drop infront of him.
If the Tigers are doing this on May 1, then type away.
But it's a long, long season. It's like going out bowhunting the morning of Oct 1 for 2 hours, seeing nothing and deciding the whole section stinks. :lol:

[EdB]

Huh??? Third game of the season, 06 American league champs, one of the worst nights ever for baseball and some of you of you are picking them apart already. :dizzy:I agree with Pinefarm that .500 in April is a good start

[Little Roober]

1. That's why when I played outfield i was always bouncin around a little bit.
2. Who hasn't said that about opening day...:lol: jk of course...

[ESOX]

Tough crowd here.LOL

[Beave]

Magglio is a total Jake. I've been complaining about him since last year. The guy never gives full effort out in the field, and it's disgusting. It makes me sick when he pulls up on balls instead of diving for them. If he had better instincts and wasn't on the chubby side he'd easily be able to get to those balls. Instead he pulls up and takes them on the bounce. I don't care if it's the first game of the season and it was cold. We let a guy like Nook Logan go in free agency who gave a ton of effort in the outfield. We have one of the top prospects in the entire minor league system who could be playing RF and who'd also give a real effort defensively. For a guy making that kind of money, to give the effort that Magglio does on a regular basis in the field, that's inexcusable.

I don't care if he's a 25-30HR and 0.300 hitter, his poor defense alone cost us at least 5 games last year.

[erodrig4]

funny, the guy is a hero last fall, and now, after one bad game, everyone says he stinks. for as bad as some of you guys think he is, look at the stats, in the 10 season before this one he has only had 33 errors...(thats 3.3 per season for some of you that need the help with the math) and a fielding percentage for RF of .986...i'm guessing those of you that are ripping him apart for wednesdays game also jumped on the bandwagon about midseason when you realized they were going to be pretty good....and as for hitting, he is a career .300 hitter....but hey...when he and the rest of the tigers get back on track (even though they have only played a WHOPPING 3 games some of you seem to think the season is over) yolu can go ahead and jump back on the bandwagon,we are accepting passengers up until the all-star break, after that, you're on your own.

[fish eater]

I'll say this. I'm not a huge Magglio fan. His best days (White Sox) clearly look to be behind him. I felt this way last season as well. His legs have just never looked as healthy to me as they were in his South Side days. The only real thing that I'm not thrilled about with Maggs is his contract. He's in the what? 15 to 16 million a year area? That's to much money based on his production IMO. He's a good ballplayer, a real good player on some days, but just not 15 million good. Nowone is. Now, if he was making in like the, say 8 to 12 million range, then I would consider him a fairer deal. Considering the other average salaries throughout the MLB. We had to overpay him at the time. Next year, that contract needs to be re-evaluated. Just my take.:)

[William H Bonney]

Fielding percentages for OF's is a "tad skewed" anyway,,,,,, Mags "should" get to a number of balls that he just doesn't,,, that's why his errors aren't up there with the league leaders. Kinda reminds me of little league,,, put the fat, goofey looking kid that can't catch in rightfield,,:lol: .

[Salmonous Maximus]

If he drives in runs, then I can handle his HORRIBLE fielding. I am a Maggs fan and I agree he might be the worst fielder in the league. Maybe try to DH him and put Sheff in the field, It couldn't be any worse, could it?:confused:

Speaking of Sheffield, the guy is not exactly knocking the cover off the ball yet is he? I know it's just 3 games.

[ckhanna]

You know, I am no jumping on any band wagon here.For those who know me also know that I couldn't stand him last year. He is to indecisive. I would much rather watch someone layout for a ball then to constantly pull up short. As for band wagon jumping when they looked good last year !!! Every year I have hope. If the Tigers were not on my TV I had AM 590 going on the radio. The whole point of these chat rooms are to vent right!!!

[ckhanna]

If he drives in runs, then I can handle his HORRIBLE fielding. I am a Maggs fan and I agree he might be the worst fielder in the league. Maybe try to DH him and put Sheff in the field, It couldn't be any worse, could it?:confused:

Speaking of Sheffield, the guy is not exactly knocking the cover off the ball yet is he? I know it's just 3 games.


This has been my point since I heard that they aquired Sheffield!!

[y2ba]

Sheffields days in the outfield are just about over. maybe a handful of games this yr, provided no injuries. Im a fan of magglio and i was at the second game, and all i could say was WOW. The 2 balls he lets drop in front of him were bloopers to right center..the kind of ball you can make a diving attempt for. THEN the ball he dives for..or slides whatever you call it..was a rope to his left...away from any backup from Granderson AND THE BASES WERE LOADED...the one thing you cant do is let that ball get by you. Whats he do? he slides doesnt knock it down..ball goes to the wall and clears the bases. What has Van Slyke been working on with this guy? I can deal with mags being a bad outfielder, but , with the lack of ability , he absolutely HAS to know the sitiuation and decide "ok, this ball isnt hit hard....theres nobody on base..i can layout for it" . Its all about decision...he could be adequate if he made the right choices.

[Salmonous Maximus]

Speaking of Sheffield, the guy is not exactly knocking the cover off the ball yet is he? I know it's just 3 games.


:lol: What do ya know- he goes yard his first time up today. Me and my big mouth.

[PITBULL]

Magglio is a total Jake. I've been complaining about him since last year. The guy never gives full effort out in the field, and it's disgusting. It makes me sick when he pulls up on balls instead of diving for them. If he had better instincts and wasn't on the chubby side he'd easily be able to get to those balls. Instead he pulls up and takes them on the bounce. I don't care if it's the first game of the season and it was cold. We let a guy like Nook Logan go in free agency who gave a ton of effort in the outfield. We have one of the top prospects in the entire minor league system who could be playing RF and who'd also give a real effort defensively. For a guy making that kind of money, to give the effort that Magglio does on a regular basis in the field, that's inexcusable.

I don't care if he's a 25-30HR and 0.300 hitter, his poor defense alone cost us at least 5 games last year.


Id like to see you out there trying to catch a ball, Its realy easy sitting on the couch and ******** Do you realy think that Maggs dont give 110% ???

[fish eater]

Id like to see your fatass out there trying to catch a ball, Its realy easy sitting on the couch and bitching. Do you realy think that Maggs dont give 110% ???


Whoa whoa bro, take it easy. No need to call someone fat. Chill dude it's all good.:)

[Beave]

I watched or listened to the better part of 100+ Tigers games last year, and I absolutely feel Magglio doesn't give full effort in the field. The guy has an extra gear for base running you hardly ever see him use in the field. He seems to have no problem finding his top speed when he's trying to stretch a base hit into the gap into a double, but hHe'll pull up short on a ball 9/10 times rather than running through it and trying to make the tough catch. Fielding percentage never shows that because jogging up on a ball and taking it out the bounce doesn't count against a guy. Even if 90% of the other starting outfielders in the league would've run like he!! and caught the ball on their shoe laces or dove. Maggs just plays them safe, which kills the team when that results in runs getting in or base runners getting on. He's in the same group when it comes to fielding as Manny Ramirez and Barry Bonds right now, talented hitters who're liabilities to their team in the field. As a Tigers' fan I'm not willing to accept that. I'd rather have a RF hitting .240 and making those catches.

And the condition of my fat @$$ has little to do with the condition of Ordonez's. No one is paying me an 8-figure salary as an athlete, and the Illitch family isn't trying to get anyone to pay $50 a ticket to come see me do my job.

[PITBULL]

Whoa whoa bro, take it easy. No need to call someone fat. Chill dude it's all good.:)


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Your right He kinda hit a sore spot. How soon do we all forget???

[William H Bonney]

I think Shef still might be a little embarassed from that 1st. base debacle last year that pratically won the series for the Tigers. He might be a lil' gun shy to put the glove back on:lol: I wouldn't worry about his numbers though,, he'll probably lead the Tigs' in every offensive category this year.

[WILDCATWICK]

I've put on my waders to post in this thread....

I suppose we should have just held on to Bobby Higginson?:idea:

Mag's was a great sign at the time and he helps the lineup more than hurts it. So until his contract is up embrace him because he's your Tiger until that time.

[MiketheElder]

Id like to see you out there trying to catch a ball, Its realy easy sitting on the couch and ******** Do you realy think that Maggs dont give 110% ???

I was a lousy outfielder. So is Mags. I know one when I see one.

[Bwana]

I've put on my waders to post in this thread....
I suppose we should have just held on to Bobby Higginson?:idea:


I am a Maggs fan, he is great behind the plate, but it is obvious he doesn't give 100% in the field anymore. :lol:

[erodrig4]

LMBO...just thought i'd bring this post back up for all of you who were ripping into Magglio at the begining of the season :lol:

can you say...MVP!?!

[augustus0603]

LMBO...just thought i'd bring this post back up for all of you who were ripping into Magglio at the begining of the season :lol:

can you say...MVP!?!

Yeah.....AROD.

I don't even think there should be an argument there. 30 HR's and 81 RBI's at the Break.

[mparks]

LMBO...just thought i'd bring this post back up for all of you who were ripping into Magglio at the begining of the season :lol:

can you say...MVP!?!

Good idea! Everyone can post their public apologies to Mags right here.:lol:

[kbkrause]

just thought i'd bring this post back up for all of you who were ripping into Magglio at the begining of the season :lol:


lol. That's kinda the fun part of these forums. It a "year" or two we can also go back and see who was right about Jenny. ;)

[D-Fresh]

Yeah.....AROD.

I don't even think there should be an argument there. 30 HR's and 81 RBI's at the Break.

Magg's is batting 50 points higher, half as many K's, more hits, 14 more doubles, higher OBP, AND he is on the BEST TEAM in the league, seriously the list goes on....he is not that far behind in RBI's.....HR's alone will not win a MVP! If Magg's continues to do what he does and the Tig's end up in the playoffs, he will be the MVP, hands down. Hell, even most of the "experts" think he is the MVP of the first half!

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/league_leaders.jsp?c_id=mlb&section1=1&statSet1=1&sortByStat=AVG&statType=1&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2007&baseballScope=mlb&prevPage1=1&readBoxes=true&box1=XXXX120044detO&box24=XXXX121347nya5&compare.x=29&compare.y=6

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/john_donovan/07/09/power.rankings/index.html

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/powerRankings

I use the term "experts" loosely, but these are the people that count because some of them vote and if they don't vote, they have a huge influence on those that do vote.

waiting for the rebuttal...

[Brown duck]

Yeah.....AROD.

I don't even think there should be an argument there. 30 HR's and 81 RBI's at the Break.

The numbers are great, but of course there will be an argument. Just some numbers/comparisons to make an argument for Maggs: of course there is a big difference in homers, but Ordonez is only 16 RBI back - that isn't too many, given that A-Rod has more than twice as many dingers. Ordonez also has the edge in BA - by about 50 points - that's about as big as the difference in numbers of homers. A-Rod has the edge in runs, but only by 9, which means Maggs is in scoring position more often for his teammates to drive him in. Walks are just about even: 46-47, but A-Rod strikes out wayyyy more often (71 - 37) - meaning, even if average were comparable, which it isn't, he probably makes fewer "productive outs" (i.e. sac flies, moving the runner over, etc.). Maggs has a higher OBP, but a lower SLG, and you can factor those in however you like (I'm not a big fan of SLG, but I understand the importance of being on base).

Finally, look at the words "Most Valuable Player" - that is, try to imagine the respective teams without these players - the Tigs are in 1st place, 52-34; the Yanks are in 3rd place, 42-43 (10 games back). Lets assume the Red Sox hold onto the East, winning the division, and the other teams keep their pace (Angels, Tigs, and Indians). In order for the Yanks to get the Wild Card, they would have to finish at 96-66, and at the Indians current pace, that would tie them. Anyhow, the Yanks would have to mount a monumental turn-around, finishing 54-23 - are they incapable of doing it? No. But what have we seen to make us think they can? If A-Rod were to go down, no, the Yanks wouldn't have much chance of doing it. But even with him, they don't have a great chance. If Maggs goes down, the Tigs would certainly slip and would likely have to battle for the WC (which may happen anyhow - it did last year under similar circumstances).

Last year's AL MVP, Morneau, barely finished in the top-10 in HR leaders, behind even A-Rod, but the voters realized that without him, the Twinkies would've never recovered from the first two months of their season. I understand a team doesn't have to win to have the MVP - Howard did it last year on a team that didn't make the playoffs, but they still finished 8 games over .500 and in 2nd place. Nor would I be surprised if A-Rod won another MVP, especially if the Yanks make it interesting in the second half, say by winning 50 games- but I don't think its quite as cut and dried as some might think.

In fact, I think Vlad Guerrero might be more deserving than A-Rod. Are there any other hitters on the Angels?

(I realize that seems a bit long-winded, but I like arguing)

[Brown duck]

Hell, even most of the "experts" think he is the MVP of the first half!

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/league_leaders.jsp?c_id=mlb&section1=1&statSet1=1&sortByStat=AVG&statType=1&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2007&baseballScope=mlb&prevPage1=1&readBoxes=true&box1=XXXX120044detO&box24=XXXX121347nya5&compare.x=29&compare.y=6

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/john_donovan/07/09/power.rankings/index.html

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/powerRankings

I use the term "experts" loosely, but these are the people that count because some of them vote and if they don't vote, they have a huge influence on those that do vote.



Here's another:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2928073

[augustus0603]

Here's another:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2928073

Gammons says it all:



• For what it's worth, MVPs at midseason:
AL: A-Rod over Magglio Ordonez, not only because of the sheer numbers, but he has lifted the Yankees out of dreadful falls and has knocked in nearly 20 percent of their runs. NL: Prince Fielder barely over Chase Utley, Russell Martin and Matt Holliday.

• Cy Youngs at midseason:

AL: Dan Haren's ERA is 2.30; the only other contender under 3.00 is Johan Santana, at 2.75. Haren's 17 quality starts are four more than anyone else. Jake Peavy picks Josh Beckett to win it, in the end.
NL: Peavy over Brad Penny, but barely. Peavy has a better ERA, Penny has one more win, and they lead the league with 15 quality starts apiece. Wake me up when September ends.


Gammons word is god. This guy is the consumate baseball fan. Probably the most respected journalist among players, managers, and GMs.

I love Magglio to death. He's been one of my favorite players since his call up to the White Sox. I don't think the Yankees would be anywhere near their current record without him. I'm interested to see how they finish. That's obviously going to be the deciding factor in this race.

[Brown duck]

Yeah - my dying wish would be to drink a beer with Gammons and talk baseball, that is, if I were dying.

I meant to look at % of runs accounted for, but must have gotten on something else. I still believe MVP should come from a contender, unless there is no other worthy candidate.

[augustus0603]

Oh, I agree. I think the Yankees will be a contender before the year is over. AROD is the best player in baseball, hands down (IMO). He's also playing for the biggest contract in history and his second half track record is pretty good barring last year.

But at the same time, I just don't think Magglio keeps up his first half pace. I would love to be wrong, but I know he's a streaky guy. And aside from batting average, Sheffield and Guillen's numbers are just as impressive.

Talking baseball with Gammons would be like shooting a 200 class buck.

[Brown duck]

Fortunately, we have another 3 whole months to get this straightened out.