why we fight ourselves??

[jeffthedj]

My brother and i were talking today about why we (sportsman)fight against each other!i see alot of it on here.we as sportsman have to unite together to save what we love to do!there are alot of people out there just waiting for the right moment to attack us..this has to stop!!just because i use a bow and a flyrod doesnt mean that im better than the guy using a gun and a spincast reel.if we all got together and thought this way we would have a dove season right now!
i dont trap, but you bet id fight to keep trapping around!all i want is to make sure that all 3 of my boys and daughter get a chance to enjoy the outdoors like me(which they do)for many years!

i hope everyone else feels the same!

[axisgear]

Here Here! Let's see a show of hands brothers and sisters!I have three boys too and I would like to think their right to the outdoors was as protected as mine!

[lookin for the gills]

I agree. We need to stick together.

[eddiejohn4]

It matters not how you take your meat gentlemen and women but that you participated in nature. I agree with you 100 percent.:)

[walleyeman2006]

yep...its a shame....every extra hunting season we can get is one more buffer to help keep what we allready have........the amount of fox and coyote around my area are allready starting to score me..coons opposum all getting way out of hand.....when we get a disease out break and people start getting attacked its to late ...but the sad thing is its going to take something like that to get peoples attention

[hunterrep]

Amen fellow brothers of the outdoors. We do need to stick together as well as cough up some hard earned money. I know that won't be a popular thing to say but it is a fact that it is going to take $$$$ to fight the antis. They are very well funded and dedicated.
Not trying to start a debate here but:
Any ideas where to best spend our money?
I'll start by endorsing the NRA for protecting our gun rights. Without gun rights, hunting will get real tough.
I'm looking for an organization that has outdoorsman interests at heart>

[Briar Field]

We need to stand together on all outdoor sports and give encouragement not knock people down or if a posting is not full of details, do not assume the worse and critisize.

We need to keep strong.

Based on many postings, everyone thinks we are in great danger of loosing hunting and the anti's have a strong hold now since we lost the dove hunting. But taking a look at it, it was a new season which has not existed before, many think the dove is a symbol of peace, and people enjoy seeing them at their bird feeders. Many of my none hunting relatives voted it down because of those reasons, but they have no problems with any of our current hunting (deer, rabbits, raccoons, etc...). If the anti's think they have a strong hold they are wrong, I think it is just smoke and mirrors and they will waste a lot of there resources here in Michigan. We still need to stand together and fight them but it is not as bad as it seems. I know of at least 10 voters that said no to doves ( based on what was said above) but will say yes to anything we currently have to keep hunting and fishing as is.

[SgtSlaughter]

Any ideas where to best spend our money?

That is an excellent question. Which organization in Michigan is our spearhead? I assume it's the MUCC.

[Foreveryoung001]

I couldn't disagree more!!!!!:mad:

Who do you think you are?????



Just kidding!

I'm with you, brother.

[DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI]

well, lets see here, it's in our genes to debate with one another about the same issue. that's what we do. we are human beings. threw this process of argument comes a happy medium usually. as sportsmen and women i dare say that our differences of opinion is what makes us what we are, just that sportsman. you don't see us going out blowing up buildings or burning them down like peta when we dissagree, we just debate it.
our founding fathers of this great nation had 11 years of in house fighting or arguing what ever you want to call it before they all could agree on the
*******constitution of the united states of america!***********
and i dare say that we are no different than those great men!
so as long as we don't start burning, blowing up things and killing each other over the issues. i say argue all you want and get it out of your systems, it's part of a healthy life ( it also shows one more important thing---you care!)

[CL-Lewiston]

Very interesting question!!

It is hard to get concensus on much of anything expcept more deer, ducks, pheasants and rats. LESS licenses fees, possums, gun regs etc.

To put it another way-how many posters here-all greatly interested in traps, guns and clean rivers-are members of at least one trapping assn, the NRA AND the local sportsmen/conservation club?? Go on any gun site and check posters IDs and much less than HALF support 2A organizations.

Costs too much, they waste my money and all I get are mailings for mopre money etc etc etc../.

Out of all the posters here I suspect 1/3 (++) voted against doves and FOR Stabenow (great anti-gunner) not to mention Jenny.

[john warren]

yes sir you are right on. we have to stop bickering and band together to defete the common enemy. as to why we bicker? i think some of it is ego driven. my type of hunting is better then yours sort of a thing. bird dog people are beter then squirrel dog people are better then coon hound people..... deer hunters are more important then rabbit or squirrel hunters. waterfoulers are classier then carp fishermen. we need to all realise that others favorite game is just as criticle to this battle as ours is. we lost doves,,, now they will be after trappers,,, the next easy target. then bear hunters, or maybe coyote hunters. any hunting with dogs will be next in line.. and so on .
if we don't respect one another and join the fight, we will all lose in the end. those animal rights whackos will just keep comming. those of you who have yet to get your hands dirty in this fight need to step up to the plate. put your lansing representitives in your email address book and all you have to do is click on it to let them know how you feel.
it is critical that you always stay respectfull and never threaten or talk tuff with these folks. act like a gentleman but get your voice heard. one representitive said to a a fellow from a hunting dog group,"i never get email from hunters, andrarely from dog people, so when i do it really stands out."
don't use sudo science with them, get facts and teach them the truth. the few minutes of our time this takes will protect years of enjoyment in the field.
lol sorry,,,,end of rant.My brother and i were talking today about why we (sportsman)fight against each other!i see alot of it on here.we as sportsman have to unite together to save what we love to do!there are alot of people out there just waiting for the right moment to attack us..this has to stop!!just because i use a bow and a flyrod doesnt mean that im better than the guy using a gun and a spincast reel.if we all got together and thought this way we would have a dove season right now!
i dont trap, but you bet id fight to keep trapping around!all i want is to make sure that all 3 of my boys and daughter get a chance to enjoy the outdoors like me(which they do)for many years!

i hope everyone else feels the same!

[MI_Bowhunter]

I don't disagree that is for sure but this is much easier to say than to implement, but it should be tried.

Is MUCC the answer? Used to be a member but let is lapse.

Is it the NRA? Again, was a member but let it lapse.

Next step for me is to rejoin MUCC and NRA as well as RGS to give it a shot.

I love to bowhunt so maybe Michigan Bowhunters?

Crippers, I am going to need a second job to pay for all this:evil:

[walleyeguy22]

The reason we fight with each other is becuase noone else is dumb enough to fight with us.

[jeffthedj]

The reason we fight with each other is becuase noone else is dumb enough to fight with us.

see!! now that was funny!!as for what to join,ted nugent summed it up "if your not part of hunting or shooting organization..that for nothing"..just join something that suits you in what you love and enjoy!

thanks for all the great postguys!

[boehr]

Because no matter what, there will always be a difference of opinion. That is what makes the human race what it is.

[LarryA]

It is true that it is human nature to bicker over differences of opinion. Bickering with respect for one another is completely different than out right attacks.

I truly believe that most of the issues that really get people emotional are when they see someone who is a poor representative of sportsmen. The thing is if we are honest with our selves, these type individuals aren't sportsmen at all. In most cases they are poachers and law breakers.

Today we live in a time that information is available at the blink of an eye. As sportsmen, it is no longer good enough for us just to follow the laws. Each and every individual needs to think about the consequences of each and every action. Then whether good, bad, ugly, or indifferent we need to accept responsibilty for that consequence.

The answer lies in mutual respect and cleaning up our own ranks.

[TNL]

I think fighting is too strong a word, even bickering. It's more about spirited debate. As mentioned before, our country was founded on it. What if we didn't have a government "for the people, by the people"? We wouldn't be allowed to disagree at all.

Just like the Democrats and Republicans we are going to have our disagreements. And just like the Dems and GOP, if someone attacks our country (hunting) we will band together. Witness Pearl Harbor or 9/11 or the bear hunting proposal of 1996.

We banded together for the dove bill, albeit too late with too little funding. But that loss is just one battle lost and that's all. It still stings...and that's good because we won't forget it for a long time. Sort of like a "remember the Alamo", it will be "remember the dove vote". I believe we won that war and the State of Texas.

Just my $.02

[garyb]

yes sir you are right on. we have to stop bickering and band together to defete the common enemy. as to why we bicker? i think some of it is ego driven. my type of hunting is better then yours sort of a thing. bird dog people are beter then squirrel dog people are better then coon hound people..... deer hunters are more important then rabbit or squirrel hunters. waterfoulers are classier then carp fishermen. we need to all realise that others favorite game is just as criticle to this battle as ours is. we lost doves,,, now they will be after trappers,,, the next easy target. then bear hunters, or maybe coyote hunters. any hunting with dogs will be next in line.. and so on .
if we don't respect one another and join the fight, we will all lose in the end. those animal rights whackos will just keep comming. those of you who have yet to get your hands dirty in this fight need to step up to the plate. put your lansing representitives in your email address book and all you have to do is click on it to let them know how you feel.
it is critical that you always stay respectfull and never threaten or talk tuff with these folks. act like a gentleman but get your voice heard. one representitive said to a a fellow from a hunting dog group,"i never get email from hunters, andrarely from dog people, so when i do it really stands out."
don't use sudo science with them, get facts and teach them the truth. the few minutes of our time this takes will protect years of enjoyment in the field.
lol sorry,,,,end of rant. no where in there did u mention commercial fishermen, aren't they not sportsmen also like the trappers ?

[jeffthedj]

alot of people keep talking about debating...thats fine, what im talking about is one sportsman looking down on another one because of the equipment or hunting style he or she uses..i'll take my flyrod to some rivers and guys look at me like i dont belong there..and then go out to a lake in a fishing boat and some guy in a 50,000 bass boat looks at you like you cant catch fish!i love a good debate anyday against a anti!:evil:

[lang49]

I blame fighting on unequal access to the resource...

I'd like to know how much money MBHA wasted suing the NRC/DNR over the last two years. Better yet, I'd like to know what impact they would've had on the Dove referendum if they had donated it instead...

[anon3292009]

Some sportsmen choose their battles carefully. More than a few reject a belief in the "all or nothing" mentality, which in reality is usually an unjustified expression of anger and fear. That said, some folks will fight with all of their resources for what is important to them but remain in the background on what is not. Why do some people insist that choices are either simply "for or against" when they were never that way, are not that way now, and never will be that way?:sad:

[john warren]

there was many i didn't speak of. none that i leave out.no where in there did u mention commercial fishermen, aren't they not sportsmen also like the trappers ?

[SgtSlaughter]

I'd like to know how much money MBHA wasted suing the NRC/DNR over the last two years. Better yet, I'd like to know what impact they would've had on the Dove referendum if they had donated it instead...

Excellent post. That was my first thought as soon as I read the title of this thread.

[john warren]

in the end,,, join some organisation, musc, nra, dog club ,waterfoul club gun club. find one you like and enjoy. thats the point of outdoor sports anyway. then invite other cubs to enjoy time with yours, and visit other clubs. talk with them, learn from them. and fight along side them.
for example while i don't have much intrest in trapping , with the current flap about leghold traps going on. i joined the michigan trappers association website. to learn what i can so i can speak through knowledge in concert with them. to invite them to hunt squirrels with us. to ask them to teach us about their traps and methods. we don't have to want to trap,,, just want to support each other.
lets continue to debate, and question one another,,, but lets not bicker and fight. to paraphrase a wise man, "down that path awaits damnation."

[bigdaddypife]

whether it is over QDM, catch and release, dogs on bears, etc. We all have the right to opinion and the breath enough to support that opinion. It might not end well everytime, but we get through it. Now, the sportsman are losing the fight because of $$$$$. Organzations like greenpeace, PETA, and others are global. Michigan sportsman are local, and hell, we can't ever agree on anything:lol: , but seriously, lobbying takes its toll on the legislature and they are winning the small battles. Right now, we are fortunate enought to enjoy the outdoors without too many restrictions, but that could change in the future. I think Dove season died because of lack of state interest. It only affected the southern part of the SLP and I kinda felt it should be a county by county thing, not a proposal voted statewide. Isabella county, where I live, was not affected either way, but I did vote for the season, not because I felt there "needed" to be season, but that my southern brothers and sisters wanted to hunt doves. Now this bings me to the point of the "Proposal". Can anybody tell me how and why it got on the ballot? By answering this question, you will begin to see how sportsman can make change for the sportsman. I posted in an earlier thread about how tireless we can debate and come up with great ideas, but it means nothing in Lansing. If QDMers want change, better take out your checkbooks and find a lobbyist and tell him not to stop until it gets on a ballot. It takes $$ and "we" need an organization to go to bat for us, agree???

[boehr]

Can anybody tell me how and why it got on the ballot? I'll try to answer the question as easy as I can. In the current law, doves were not listed as a game animal therfore requiring the state legislature to approve the dove as a game bird before the NRC could approve a season. If you remember it went through the legislature pretty easy but as in any bill, the governor must also sign (approve) it. She said she wasn't and a deal was made for just the counties along the south border to have a season for, I believe, 3 years and during that time do a study and report the findings. Because of that deal she approved it. The people against dove hunting thought is was not for the legislature/governor to make that decision and went out and obtained signatures in a petition drive to put it on the ballot. They got enough signatures and it went to a vote.