Copper vs. Core

[lkmifisherman]

With the great amount of information that was garnered with the wireline thread I thought maybe a thread on copper vs. core might be in order...I have core rods that consist of 2,3,5 and 10 colors. I doubt I will ever run over a fullcore as they are a PITA to reel in and to keep other boats out of...I am thinking of adding copper to my arsenal as an addition or an alternative to leadcore..I am curious as to the what are the advantages and disadvantages of running copper over core? What rods and reels are used for this? What are the preferred lures to run behind them? I am also looking for honest opinions on whether it is worth the hassle and added expense. And should I be leaving an important question unasked, jump in and fill in the gaps...

Thanks for any and all responses,

LMF :fish:

[Midway97]

I started running a full copper a couple years ago. As for the equipment.. the same setup you use for core will work for copper, you don't need rollers or twilli tips. Copper will go about half again as deep as core. If a full core goes 35-40 feet, a full copper will go about 50-60 feet at the same speed, of course as usual there will be some discussion on this. :16suspect

Lures.... I've run the same stuff behind a copper that I have a core, I prefer to run a flasher/fly because letting the copper out is the hardest part of using it (IMHO) because its so soft it gets a memory on the spool and if there isn't some drag on it it will kink easily :sad: . flasher/fly will give enough drag to allow you to set the drag very lite and tend to other rods.

Does it work..?? :confused: It has produced results when other rods went silent, it isn't new by any means, just making the comeback again.

[NEMichsportsman]

you don't need rollers or twilli tips.


I have never used copper. I do run wire and lead core, had always assumed that as far as rigs go it would be more comparable to my wire than the core???

[STEINFISHSKI]

Core can be untangled, copper is usually balled and damaged if in a big tangle (like a spinny getting inoto it). What's the going rate for copper recycling anyway?:lol: Bigger reels with large levelwind guides and rod guides are needed to pass the knots through. They both accomplish the same thing, copper dives deeper and faster so you need to run less to get the same depths as core. Long copper rigs are heavy and planer board keel modifications are necessary to get them to track consistently with the other boards.

Copper comes in 30# and 45#, the 45# takes more reel space and dives deeper. I like the copper rigs for longer than 12 color lead core rigs. It's not the end all, but has it's days for sure when the fish are deeper.

[Midway97]

I have never used copper. I do run wire and lead core, had always assumed that as far as rigs go it would be more comparable to my wire than the core???

Wire (stainless) is very hard and abrasive causing the need for the rollers or twilli tip, prevents it from sawing through the tip guide.

Copper is soft and isn't as likely to saw into the guide material, obvously you dont want to hold your rod tip so hi that you cause a very sharp angle at the tip though.

[NEMichsportsman]

Thanks for the answer!
I thought I was going to have to shell out the bigger bucks for a specialized rod.

For those of you who use it how does it compare strength and durability wise to my wire???

[pikedevil]

Advantages leadcore:
1.) Cheaper, copper is expensive and you go through more due to tangles.
2.) Easier to work with, you don't have to be as careful while letting it out, its easier to untangle when you get it wrapped up in another rod. You can cut it in cases of tangles and tie it back together...there is really no copper-to-copper knot.

Advantages copper:

1.) the only real advantage to copper is it sinks must faster then leadcore, especially the 45 pound. 450 ft of 45 pound copper (a 15 colors length) can get down to 90 + feet. Needless to say these rigs can be deadly.

Bottom line is you need to utilize both, changing over to all copper because you can run shorter leads will lead to more headaches and more money spent as more tangles will be the result. I have 2,3,5,7,8,10,12,15 color cores on our boat then a handful of both 30 lb and 45 lb copper rods with 300-450 feet of copper. Heres the scenario. Fish are deep and you want to run 3 boards a side. you can run a 450 ft 45lb copper closest, a 400 ft 30 lb copper as the second rod, and a 12 color lead as the third rod. By utilizing lines with 3 different sink rates, setting lines is easy as the outside rods and easily swing over the inside ones, and your effectively running baits from 80-90 ft down (45 lb copper), 60-70 ft down (30 lb copper), and 45-55 ft down (12 color lead). A lead/copper presentation like this is deadly in a deep fish situation.

[lkmifisherman]

I have a couple of more questions....When tying copper to the backer or the leader what knot do you use? How big of a levelwind do you need? And is it really worth the hassle and expense or would that money be better invesed elsewhere?


LMF :fish:

[DonP]

When tying copper to the backer or the leader what knot do you use?
Check this thread out for your answer.... Copper Wire (http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146592&highlight=copper+knot)
How big of a levelwind do you need?
Click on this search link: Search on "Copper Reel" (http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1622074). Enough reading to keep you busy for awhile... and a number of reels will be mentioned. How big a level wind will depend on how much copper you want to put on the reel (in other words... how deep in the water column you want to target).And is it really worth the hassle and expense or would that money be better invesed elsewhere?

The answer is yes and no. Yes... it is definitely worth the hassle... but copper rigs would be my last form of presentation to acquire. I would be sure to have the other types of presentations ....downrigger, dipsey (mono/braid/wire), leadcore, flatlining w/ planer boards.... covered before investing into copper. If you don't have the other presentations... spend your money there 1st.... then move into copper. JMHO of course!! :)

[fishinmachine2]

is it really worth the hassle and expense or would that money be better invesed elsewhere?


LMF :fish:

In my oppinion, I dont think its worth it. When the fish are deep they are alot easier to catch on downriggers and divers. When the fish are shallow go to more leadcore. We refuse to run it on our boat and we still catch alot of fish and have faired well in quite a few tournaments. Like the others have said when its tangled kiss it good-by and when another line hits it, kiss that good-by...LOL!!! Just my 2 cents! Good Luck!!

Scott

[salmon_slayer06]

I was told that since copper core is very soft, damaged eyes will fray the wire very easliy. So I would make sure to use a twili tip and a roller rod would be better only because it would save the copper core from fraying and should last forever than. I never used it so I don't know from experience. Oh, I heard from guys who have used it and they say running smaller spoons on this stuff doesn't put enough tension on the line to make it uncoil in the water. Running short leads so you can fish a few feet down doesn't work too great either. It coils too easliy.

[AlanJ]

wow, 450 foot leads. the tightest turn i estimate would have a circumference of half a mile, woohoo,
you sure could not make tight turns or have ppl within a mile of you.
i am only skilled enough to run 4 riggers and possibly some dipsies off the side.

i am not looking to cause grief, or get ppl upset. but a man has to know his limitations, and running many hundreds of feet of copper or core is way past me and my son.
it is great some of you are so versatile, but i even gotta sit to chew gum or my brain is strained.

AlanJ

[pikedevil]

wow, 450 foot leads. the tightest turn i estimate would have a circumference of half a mile, woohoo,
you sure could not make tight turns or have ppl within a mile of you.
i am only skilled enough to run 4 riggers and possibly some dipsies off the side
AlanJ


Haha your quote got me thinking. There are many times I run 4 boards a side.....now stay with me.... if I run my 8 longest cores/coppers, which I do sometimes just those 8 rods means i'm dragging 3400 feet of line, well over 1/2 a mile. :dizzy:

Back to the question as to wether copper is worht it. If I wasnt in the business of trying to win tournaments I prolly wouldnt use it much. While it can be very effecive, Its not particularly fun to catch fish on and its certainly not very beginner friendly. I have to be careful who I hand the rod too when it comes time to let it out, a copper backlash is not very fun to deal with.

[lkmifisherman]

DonP,
It never occurred to me to use the search function....Thanks now I have reading material for work tomorrow LOL...As far as what I have for rods...2 each of 2, 3, 5, and 10 colors, 2 wire and 4 braided dipsies, 8 downrigger/board rods, and 2 lightline sliders. I'd like to add 2 more wire dipsies, 2-7 color cores, and 2 mono dipsies.


THINK SPRING!!!!!!

LMF :fish:

[EdB]

One of the best reasons to run copper is the have a core like presentation without as much line out. A half copper- 150ft of 45lb will get to the same depth as a core with half distance behind the boat. If would not be wise to run a full core on the bank off the gold coast or in some near shore conditions in the spring with lots of boats. A half copper works great for this. I ran them on the bank a lot last year, somtimes you need to crank them in a bit but I never had one cut off or had a conflict with another boat. If another boat get close, it easy to get them in some. When you have some room and fish are throughout the water column, you can really cover some water with a 1/2 core, full core and a full copper per side. The key to avoiding tangles is to keep your clicker on and your thumb on the reel and strip out the line by hand until you get enough in the water to put some drag on it. They are a more difficult rig to set but it's not hard if your careful. I agree that you should load up on all the other rigs before going to copper.

[Jason Adam]

I dont like it.... I tried. had nothing but problems. Will probably play again this year since I have 30+ trolling reels not currently used, but I've had tons of problems..