Square Back Canoe

[uptracker]

I'm thinking about buying a square back canoe this year and need some options. I need some info too:

What's the pros and cons of a aluminum vs. a fiberglass?
What size motor can they handle? I know some guys use gas engines with them?
Any suggestions?

[Scott Sullivant]

I used to have a 17ft, alum with a 5 hp. gas motor. the motor gave it a bit more stability. And the 5 hp motor would make it fast. the only thing i had a problem with was, if i didn't have a front passenger i had to put some weight up there to keep the bow down.:fish:

[Duckman1]

uptracker,

Here are somethings you need to consider.

What do you plan to use it for? Hunting, fishing, paddling, trapping?

Do you want or need a motor on it? Will you paddle it only?

Weight. Will it go on a car or in a truck bed or on a trailer?

The wider you can get it the better stability it will have.
Aluminum would be my choice. A little better durability and I think you will find more options available in this material. Ratings for a motor will depend on the size and type of craft.

give some answers to the ? and we can guide you to some good options

[uptracker]

Alright...

1. Using it for deer hunting way back in...I use a 12 alum. boat right now, but it's a little big sometimes.

2. I have a 5 hp motor to put on it.

3. Probably just throw it in a truck.

I was sort of thinking aluminum too. Why do you lean towards alum.?

Thanks

[WinMag]

I'm thinking about buying a square back canoe this year and need some options. I need some info too:

What's the pros and cons of a aluminum vs. a fiberglass?
What size motor can they handle? I know some guys use gas engines with them?
Any suggestions?

I bought a Sportspal canoe http://www.castlecraft.us/sportspal_square-stern.htm a few years ago after an extensive search and I wouldn't trade it for any other canoe. It is very stable and I can fish standing up with no problems. It is deeper than most and has a capacity of 625 lbs and can withstand a 3 hp motor.

What's pros and cons of a aluminum vs. a fiberglass?

If you are storing the canoe outdoors, aluminum is the way to go. The sun's UV rays will kill a fiberglass canoe over time.
If you plan to do rough water or rocky boating, alumininum will dent but not shatter like fiberglass.
The big benefit to fiberglass is that it is lighter to portage if you travel alone. My sportspal weighs 57 lbs and I can handle it fine. Still, none of us are getting any younger.What size motor can they handle?
Mine can handle 3 Hp but the heavier ones can handle up to 5 Hp. You don't want a powerful engine on a light boat. The vibrations will render the canoe unstable and it could be dangerous when the centroid or balance point of the canoe is altered by the motor. Personally, I bought the 13 ft square stern for the day when I might want to use a small motor, but I haven't used one yet. I consider the canoe an opportunity to get exercise and I like to paddle. Besides, paddles weigh a lot less than a motor and I don't like to carry a lot of gear.

Good luck in your search.

[WinMag]

Alright...

1. Using it for deer hunting way back in...I use a 12 alum. boat right now, but it's a little big sometimes.

...
If you're going to use it for deer hunting, you need a wide boat with plenty of stability. The Sportspals were designed for hunting and fishing. Maybe an electric trolling motor is the way to go. If I was going way back for deer, I would want to go quietly and electric would be my choice. If 12 ft is too big, go for the 11 ft but it can only take a 2 hp motor and I would use electric.

You don't want to flip your boat over into ice cold water and lose all your gear and possibly your life because you used a motor that was too powerful. Steady as she goes...

Your other option is an inflatable boat. I personally don't like them, but others say the good ones are as reliable as a canoe and some of them can take a motor.

[uptracker]

I hear ya on the electric motor. How long will a battery last though in really cold temps.....say...I want to stay in there for a few days.

[smi_uaw4]

I'm thinking about buying a square back canoe this year and need some options. I need some info too:

What's the pros and cons of a aluminum vs. a fiberglass?
What size motor can they handle? I know some guys use gas engines with them?
Any suggestions?

For the money a sportspal usa ...meyer boat not the sportspal radisson made in canada is your best bet.. AT 68 lbs for a 15 foot they are durable and light. I had a grumman fiberglass at 95 lbs squareback and it went through the water nice but was to heavy to handle. At .32 hull aircraft aluminum they are strong and with a great transom shape they are exceptionally stable. I have 2 12 footers a `14 and a 15...one 12 foot is for sale...

If you plan on two people and gear.. buy a 14 or 15 foot .. a side transom works ok in pointed canoe and you can run a 2.5/3/5 tohatsu/nissan gas motor or electric trolling. You will have a problem finding a 15 foot square back used and the 13 foot square can acomodate two people but is tight if you add much gear.. I live in 3 hours south of you middle of michigan..

buy a meyer ... gandermountain or direct from meyer on internet price is best way to go if buy new.. it is very difficult to find a 14 pointed or 15 square used... that is why my first two sportspals were 12 foot.
thanks rick jones smi_uaw4@yahoo.com 9899482689

type meyer boat company to find parent company to contact for direct pricing

[smi_uaw4]

I hear ya on the electric motor. How long will a battery last though in really cold temps.....say...I want to stay in there for a few days.

If you have a charger at night it will last long time..

also gas are expensive.. i bought a new used twice 3.5 gas for $350 try to find one less than $500..
take two batteries one charge one in use....

[Ogre]

I have one of those square back canoes and have several things to say about them. First, I run mine almost exclusively with my electric trolling motor and it works great with one exception. The exception is the other thing that I have to say and that is the fact that the canoe has no keel. It is flat bottomed and it's virtually impossible to keep it in a straight line with any wind. The canoe has an equal chance of going sideways as it does going straight with a motor. The square back is nice but make sure there is a keel (no completely flat bottom).

[SA ULTRA MAG]

uptracker,

I have an Old Town canoe, stabilizers, motor mount, anchor outrigger and electric trolling motor. All in excellent condition with very little use, see below:

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/huntingFishing/osprey_155.html

http://www.sailboatstogo.com/v_page.php?content=stabilizer_length

https://crab.secure-host.com/extrasport/oldtowncanoe/catalog.php?fr_sw=0&section_id=4

Would this fit your needs ? PM me if your interested.

[uptracker]

Little worried about the stabilizers being in the way on some streams. Plus, I'd really like a square back. Thanks though.

Thanks to all that have posted so far.....you're helping me a lot.

Still worries me about going with a battery too. I'd really like to know it's gonna start when I need it too come mid to late November and sitting in the elements for a few days.

[WinMag]

For the money a sportspal usa ...meyer boat not the sportspal radisson made in canada is your best bet.. ...
type meyer boat company to find parent company to contact for direct pricing

...Still worries me about going with a battery too. I'd really like to know it's gonna start when I need it too come mid to late November and sitting in the elements for a few days.

Like smi said, the USA made Sportspal is the way to go. It is made from heavier gauge aluminum than the Canadian Radisson Sportspal. I put the right Sportspal link in my first post above.

Castle Craft (link in earlier post) is the USA Sportspal parent company and distributor. I bought my Sportspal at Wilson Marine. Gander Mountain also sells them or you can order direct from Castle Craft, have it shipped to you or pick it up at their warehouse in Illinois.

Batteries are usually not a problem for a few days. Buy a solar charger to trickle charge it while you're hunting. I know guys who prefer to fish with electric motors and they go a long way on one charge. I don't use motors but a lot of people do and they are very reliable. Leave with two fully charged batteries if you are worried about it. Besides, you always have the paddles.

When you find out how easy the Sportspal is to paddle, I'll bet you won't want the motor. By the way, how far do you plan to go with the canoe?

[just ducky]

Little worried about the stabilizers being in the way on some streams. Plus, I'd really like a square back. Thanks though.

Thanks to all that have posted so far.....you're helping me a lot.

Still worries me about going with a battery too. I'd really like to know it's gonna start when I need it too come mid to late November and sitting in the elements for a few days.

Okay my two cents...I have two square back canoes, and I mostly use them for duck hunting. I have a trolling motor, which works okay, but two issues with it...the charge only lasts an hour or so when carrying lots of weight, so if you're going "way back in" like you say, DON'T DO IT! The second time my trolling motor died halfway back to the truck was the last time I used it this way. I now have a trusty little 4hp evinrude, which is the way to go. And someone talked about gas being expensive...C'MON GUYS...a little motor like this can go all day on a quart of gas. NOT AN ISSUE...trust me. The other issue about a trolling motor is the weight of the $#%@ battery. If you are going to do any portaging up and over any obstacles at all, that battery adds a ton of weight. A little outboard is pretty light, and can be easily removed and put back on if you need to.

So the small outboard is the way to go. ;)

[uptracker]

When you find out how easy the Sportspal is to paddle, I'll bet you won't want the motor. By the way, how far do you plan to go with the canoe?

Couple miles and I wouldn't want to paddle back...it'd be a pain. If I went further down stream past my hunting locale, I'd eventually be futher in the woods at a spring bubbling out of the ground.

And Thanks justducky!

[WinMag]

Just ducky makes a good case for the gas motor. Sounds like he has been there and done that. I would probably take his word for the gas motor being less trouble in the long run. I decided to dispense with the motor altogether. I have enough engines to winterize at my house and I don't need any more maintenance jobs. But I could change my mind if I decide to hunt deer in some remote location that is only accessible by canoe.:D

For deer hunting, I would cut off the motor before reaching my hunting spot to avoid announcing myself. If anyone else has done this I would be interested in knowing what effect the sound of an outboard would have on deer. Probably not good. Maybe after you cut the motor off the deer will settle down and ignore it.

Sounds like you're going off the beaten path into big buck territory. I got my canoe mainly for fishing, duck hunting and taking the kids out on the water, but maybe I should do what you're doing...

[just ducky]

I've hunted using canoes that were glass, aircraft aluminum like Radissons/Sportspals, and true aluminum Grummans. By far the most durable is the Grumman, albeit a bit heavier. The lighter weight Radissons/Sportspals are great, but the lightweight aluminum is a bit more delicate, thus we have one that has developed a leak due to dragging over some rough cover/rocks one too many times while duck hunting, and fixing a leak in them is not easy. The glass one works well in mud, sand, etc., but you have to be real careful if you're using it in rocky or stumpy areas. My advice for your needs (deer hunting), try to find a used WIDE square back Grumman aluminum canoe. That's by far the most durable canoe I've ever used, and the wide Grummans can take a ton of weight and are very stable.

[uptracker]

WinMag: It says on that link tht a 13'2" Sportspal could only handle a 3 hp. You think it'd matter much if you put a 5 hp on it?

I don't really understand they're reasoning on the engine capcity.

[WinMag]

WinMag: It says on that link tht a 13'2" Sportspal could only handle a 3 hp. You think it'd matter much if you put a 5 hp on it?

I don't really understand they're reasoning on the engine capcity.

The horsepower rating is based on several factors: the weight of the boat, rigidity and thickness of the hull and the torque that can be applied to the transom without making the boat unstable. A heavier boat will be able to handle a more powerful motor and you trade off the motor rating to get a lighter boat.

I think you could put a 5 hp motor on the boat without any problems as long as you accelerate gradually and don't apply full torque. The ratings are based on an empty boat but with you and your gear loaded, I think a 5 hp would be alright. You will have to distribute the weight towards the front to trim the boat and make it set level in the water.

When you check the specs of the 13'2" Sportspal, you will find that it is wider than any other canoe of the same length. The sponsons (foam runners) and flat bottom make the boat very stable and it's true when they say that the boat won't tip if a dog or a swimmer climbs over the side. That's another reason why I think 5 hp would work. It's not your typical canoe and it handles more like a boat than a canoe.

I think there might only be a few pounds difference in weight between a 5 hp motor and a 3 hp. It's the torque that makes more difference than the weight. Just don't rev too hard and it will be fine. Since you already have the 5 hp motor, might as well use it.

[WinMag]

I just remembered that the Detroit Boat Show is in town at Cobo until Sunday and you will be able to do some hands-on shopping down there. It's not just yachts and big boats. There are a lot of vendors that sell small boats, canoes and other stuff.

http://www.2007boatshows.com/Detroit/

I bought my wife's paddle boat at the 2003 boat show.
__________________

[uptracker]

Thanks a lot!

[hornet007]

uptracker

If you're going to be heading back into a remote area with your canoe for deer hunting, presumably you'll be taking a bit of gear as well.

I have an Old Town Discovery Canoe 17 ft., flat back that can handle a 5hp motor. They don't make these anymore (their newest iteration is called the Predator, same thing more or less, different name).

I've been running it with a 5hp motor, and it sounds like it would be great for your desired application. It could certainly get you and your gear to your spot. The 5hp motor pushes the canoe great.

I might be selling mine (to upgrade to a boat) in the coming weeks. If you're interested, let me know, I have some pictures I could send.

Hornet

[Rupestris]

. By far the most durable is the Grumman, albeit a bit heavier.

try to find a used WIDE square back Grumman aluminum canoe. That's by far the most durable canoe I've ever used, and the wide Grummans can take a ton of weight and are very stable.

I'll second jd's post.

Check my gallery for pics of my Grumman SportBoat. Its 15' and can handle a 7hp. You can paddle it like a canoe, or use the oar locks to row.

Weighing in at just over 100 lbs empty and being 15' in length, its not the most car/truck-top friendly for one person to load or unload. I picked up the trailer from Harbor Freight for $300.

Bad part about the Grummans is the fact that, 1, people that have 'em don't want to part with them. And, 2 they aren't cheap. I think they fetch about $1500 MSRP.

HTH,

Chris

[just ducky]

...Bad part about the Grummans is the fact that, 1, people that have 'em don't want to part with them. And, 2 they aren't cheap. I think they fetch about $1500 MSRP.

HTH,

Chris


...And the weight...don't know the specifics, but I know they're a lot heavier than a Radisson/Sportspal. But as I said before, more durable (or beatable as I like to say :evilsmile ).

[Rupestris]

...And the weight...don't know the specifics, but I know they're a lot heavier than a Radisson/Sportspal. But as I said before, more durable (or beatable as I like to say :evilsmile ).

Just checked the Marathon Boats website. The 15' Sportboat weighs in at 112# but the 16' square stearn (without the middle seat, foam filled gunnels, bow, and rear seat) only weighs 64# and is made of the same .040 aluminum.
Definately lighter and almost as tough as the SportBoat (5 ribs compared to 10 in the SB).

Man I wish it would warm up! This thread has got me jonesing to get the ol' boat back in the water.:cool: :fish:

[hornet007]

WinMag

I tried to send you a pm but your inbox is full....



Hornet

[john warren]

ogre, two ways to fix that. first you can put a keel on it. takes some skill.
the second, the cheapest and easiest is to put dager boards on the gunnel. a clamp on board that sticks down into the water . placed midway in the canoe. id make it out of plywood and grind a foil shape like a rudder would have make it maybe 10 inches wide, have it stick into the water about a foot. this will act much as a centerboard in a sailboat and help you hold a straight course.I have one of those square back canoes and have several things to say about them. First, I run mine almost exclusively with my electric trolling motor and it works great with one exception. The exception is the other thing that I have to say and that is the fact that the canoe has no keel. It is flat bottomed and it's virtually impossible to keep it in a straight line with any wind. The canoe has an equal chance of going sideways as it does going straight with a motor. The square back is nice but make sure there is a keel (no completely flat bottom).