Charter boats

[A_Outdoorsman]

my friend steelymike was wondering how much you make owning a charter buisness, how much do you make, he thinks its a get rich quick scheme? true?

[walleyeman2006]

not really ...weather is good you can make a buck but if its not....if you own your boat out right or if you make payments....theres a lot of ifs and buts ....any one making a living chartering is worken there a*& off

[RyGuy525]

The captain doesn't make much at all but the first mate makes a killing. Luckily I'm a first mate:D :D :D

[salmonfishinnut]

I agree with Ryan...I am a mate on charterboats and you do make a killing.

Tight Lines, Heavey Fish Boxes

Steve

[Mitch]

If it were a "get rich quick" proposition, everyone would be doing it.

If one were to really start looking into it and all the costs involved, crunching rough numbers the dollars get stretched pretty thin, very fast.

Good luck,

Mitch

[salmon_slayer06]

Running a charter boat is a job. Running a charter boat to get rich will be the hardest thing he will ever have to do. I know, trust me.

You have a morning crew of guys. You are at the boat at 3am to get boat started, gassed up, lines tied, etc..... your crew is there at 5am. You head out and fish till noon. You go back clean fish, clean boat, reset up rods for next afternoon crew.

Afternoon crew shows up at 2. You head out at 3 and fish till just after dark. Its 9pm and you are just pulling the rods out of the water. You go back clean fish, clean boat, eat dinner, check plans for next trip and you are in bed by midnight. You are up again at 2am to go back down to the boat. Get the picture?

Having a boat and chartering on the weekends only will just make break even on costs for you on gas, tackle, food etc. on the weekend.

[Gone Fishing]

If you want to have a million dollars as a charter captain……………………….start with 2 million! ;)

[pikedevil]

my friend steelymike was wondering how much you make owning a charter buisness, how much do you make, he thinks its a get rich quick scheme? true?

Chartering and big lake salmon fishing in general is at best a "get poor quick scheme". I'd say less then 25% of the charters out there are actually making decent money and by that I mean 20-40K a summer. And you have to run 100+ trips a year to make much and thats hard to do untill you have a reputation and a good client base built. A few make more, but a very few. Most just do it because they enjoy it and it pays the slip fee. The vast majority of charter captains are wealthy from a past career. I agree that mates can make a lot but when you consider that during peak season you may litterally be working 100+ hours a week in the end it usually comes down to 8-12 dollars an hour which sorry to say is far from a "killing".

[salmon_slayer06]

Those guys with the 30 foot Tiaras all decked out with Radar, autopilot, electric riggers, all matching rods with triple setups for backups and a private slip didn't buy that stuff with the money they made from chartering. They made it from a past career or they are Best Chance Too and are sponsored and win most of the tourneys. Its the Michigan Dream to become a salmon charter and not have to work when you don't want, and have all the money. Stick with getting a decent boat and fish the weekends and you'll maybe get a crew of guys to go out and pay for gas....nudge, nudge.

[Jason Adam]

I think in 2004, the average charterboat in Michigan reported a profit of like UNDER $1000. Now I'm sure some of these guys arent reporting all thier income, but regardless, your friend steelymike couldnt be more wrong. I'm not giving up my fishing days and dealing with all the headaches that come with for a grand a year.... Its great if you are retired with a pension, your boat and all your bills are paid, and you just want to be on the water and help people catch fish. Other than that, 10% of the effort you need to put in will net youbetter returns in 100's of other fields...

[salmon_slayer06]

Theres lots of divorces and break ups in the charter boat business. Businesses fold, and lives are ruined.

[SalmonBum]

Ok…. Here’s a scenario.
You own a Charter boat. Let’s say u own something with twin inboards. You take a Group out for a 6 hr trip and Charge $450-500. You can’t charge much more cause there is a “newbie” that trailered in his 24’ Single Screw, and he is charging $350. The time is early June early and you have to run 13 miles to find fish. You burn 70 gallons to run in, fish, and run back in. That’s would be roughly $250 by last yrs prices. I don’t know what the going rate is for a 1st mate, but let’s say you give him $50. You still haven’t paid for your boat slip and insurance for that day, but let’s round that to $75. That is leaves u a $125 profit. But wait…… Your client lost a dipsey rig with a Fish catcher/fly combo. $12 for the diver, $11 for the Spinnie, $3 for the fly and say $3 worth of “good quality” Swivels. Bang…… Just under a Benni in your pocket. Now to that 6 hr trip and 2 hrs for prep\cleanup and fish cleaning. You made a whole $12 an hr, but that is before Uncle Sam says hello. You put $72 in your pocket.

I sure hope the boat is paid for, and you only live a block away from the dock. I know it costs me about $82 to get there and back.

[Bob's Outdoors]

If you want to charter because you love it, do it. You won't get rich but you might be good at it.

If you want to charter "to get rich", forget it, you will stink at it and will lose your money.

3 things left out of previous posts - all municpal marina fees are doubled for charters, any tournament you enter you must enter as a pro, and last, but certainly not least, is DRUNKS.

Mopping puke at 6 am and having to smile because the charter is not paid yet...priceless!!!!

[fishinmachine2]

Theres no way in hell i would want to be a charter captain. I give those guys alot of credit for doing what they do, its alot of work and there isnt much pay in the end. I enjoy fishing to much , I wouldnt want to have to deal with the customers . Tell your buddy good luck!!

Scott

[Duckman1]

Not to add more fuel to the fire but bob and salmon bum left out the monthly premium for insurance on a commercial operation. By the other figures, I would guess the captain made about 50 dollars that day.

[fishin'magician']

tell your friend steelymike to buy that 3600 open and you'll be the mate. shoot I'll be the mate the mates always make more than the capts. but honestly it is far tougher than you would think.

[Arrow]

Don't forget the membership to an association which provides mandatory (random) drug testing. This is required by the Coast Guard as part of your licensure. So $$ for your association membership, and, when your name is drawn for the test, you pay for the cost of the test. The DNR gets a crack at your wallet too. Those stickers you see on charter boats from the DNR aren't free. Last inspection we had was $250.

Save your money, fish for yourself with your buddies. Don't look back.

[RyGuy525]

The hours are very long the work is tough the people can really suck at times and like stated before most people actually end up losing money. The captain i work for just put a lot of money in to re building his engines. Running the boat that often also causes a lot of wear and tear wich means things break and you have to not only pay for the repairs but most people do it them selves. Tell your buddy to forget about being a captain. If he wants to charter fish badly he should find a first mate job. THere is less responsibilty and he can actualy make a little bit of money doing it.

[SalmonBum]

Oh yeah, I had buddy that wanted to start a charter Business. He bought a Used Baha Cruisers (tod him not too) that passed a survey. Well, the guy that did the survey was in Ka-hoots with the selling dealer. The boat was bad when he got his DNR inspection. Transom was shot. Cost him $7000 to fix. He only chartered part time, so there went his profits for a few yrs.

[Spoon Fed]

One of my charter buddies told me it cost him $250 a day before he turns the key on the boat, you have slip fees, gas, insurance, boat up keep, etc. The list goes on and on

[BFG]

Correct me if I'm wrong...but are not expenses such as fuel, tackle, boat loan interest, etc. "business expenses"..a portion of which can be written off come tax time?

If it is so bad, why are so many doing it?? I mean c'mon...

You do what you do in life because you want to, not because you are forced to...from the sounds of some of these posts you would think that these captains have no other choice..

Are not captains who enter tournaments often sponsored by tackle companies...having a portion of their entries paid...either given tackle or sold tackle at greatly reduced rates?

You should have to fish Pro. You are a Pro!!


BFG

[Jason Adam]

If it is so bad, why are so many doing it?? I mean c'mon...

You do what you do in life because you want to, not because you are forced to...from the sounds of some of these posts you would think that these captains have no other choice..

You are right on, they are doing it because they want to, or love to, NOT because they have no other choice(i.e. HAVE to to make a living). Because you want to, is the only sensable reason to become a captain...


Are not captains who enter tournaments often sponsored by tackle companies...having a portion of their entries paid...either given tackle or sold tackle at greatly reduced rates?

You should have to fish Pro. You are a Pro!!

BFG

There arent sponsorships just floating around. Many of the guys are tackle manufatcures themselves, and thats who their "sponsor" is. There are a few guys that are "sponsored", but its not Bassmasters....

[BFG]

I guess they have a right to complain just like the rest of us....

Just seems off-kilter a bit to complain about the slip and insurance costs of a 36' Tiara. Then again, not all charters run that level of vessel, so maybe that point is off-base. I just find it hard to believe that the average slip and insurance cost for a charter boat per day is $75.00. There is a post on another site that discusses the cost of charter insurance, and one guy posted "$1500 for two boats for the season." That is about what I pay for full coverage on my Ram per year..give or take a couple hundo..

Can someone explain to me why marinas charge double the slip fees for charter boats? It's the same slip as the non-charter next to you, right? Do they do it because "they can?" Tell me why guys agree to such practices.

It obviously takes a special kind of person to do such a thing. Customer Service is your #1 priority. I see now why some captains are reluctant to share techniques and tactics. Every Rec fisherman that they educate is one more (plus all of his friends) that they'll never have as clientele on their boat. Doesn't make them bad guys at all...they are just protecting themselves.

[CAPT HEAVY]

Ive been in the business for 5 yrs. now and Im doing it for two reasons. 1. There is no better feeling than putting the "bug" into and young person, I love hearing "thats the biggest fish ive ever caught." 2. Its something that Ive wanted to do.
There may be some guys over on the west side of the state that are making a good profit, but where im at things were very slow, The bottom line is that you do it for the Love of it. A charter capt. thats in the business for the money is really easy to spot, its the guy whos boat never leaves the slip.
Bottom line is do it because you love people and love to fish, any other motive is a lost cause.

[Jason Adam]

I guess they have a right to complain just like the rest of us....

Just seems off-kilter a bit to complain about the slip and insurance costs of a 36' Tiara. Then again, not all charters run that level of vessel, so maybe that point is off-base.
Its still an expense, whether they have a $10,000 boat or a $1,000,000 boat. And I dont think most are "complaining", they are just staing facts as to what it costs.

I just find it hard to believe that the average slip and insurance cost for a charter boat per day is $75.00. There is a post on another site that discusses the cost of charter insurance, and one guy posted "$1500 for two boats for the season." That is about what I pay for full coverage on my Ram per year..give or take a couple hundo..
I can gaurnetee you his costs are atleast that. I pay $500 for coverage on a relativily inexpensive 26' a year. Charter insurance is double, so $1500 a year is not out of line for ONE boat..


Can someone explain to me why marinas charge double the slip fees for charter boats? It's the same slip as the non-charter next to you, right? Do they do it because "they can?" Tell me why guys agree to such practices.

They could probably give you some crap like customers taking up parking everyday, extensive use of the fish cleaning station, etc.. but the answer is "cause they can"...

It obviously takes a special kind of person to do such a thing. Customer Service is your #1 priority. I see now why some captains are reluctant to share techniques and tactics. Every Rec fisherman that they educate is one more (plus all of his friends) that they'll never have as clientele on their boat. Doesn't make them bad guys at all...they are just protecting themselves.
Not really true. I know plenty of guys who take charters out. Hell, it'd be WAY cheaper for me to take two charter trips out every weekend if the cost were split between 4 guys, as opposed to me funding my boat every weekend....

[CarpKing]

Any charters looking to get out of the business send me a private message and let me know....

[STEINFISHSKI]

If I could make it work on paper I'd charter in a second just to be out there every day doing what I love to do. Problem is is unless you are retired or independently wealthy, it would be hard to earn a living for a family doing so. Much less spending quality time with them during peak times and running 2 trips a day. Obviously the best of the best probably could, but even they had to start somewhere. I respect and admire most of them, and I believe that the good ones who share information get this back two fold from recommendations and long lasting relations, friendships, and repeat buisness.

I talked about this with my wife, and for what an average guy shells out for boats, motors, electronics, gear, and tackle, he could take many, many charter trips before he ever even fills the truck and boat with gas for a day. LOL, she told me "then sell the boat" :lol:. IMO charters are one of the best deals out there, but it will never replace the romance of rigging and catching these fish on your own.

[Jason Adam]

If I could make it work on paper I'd charter in a second just to be out there every day doing what I love to do. Problem is is unless you are retired or independently wealthy, it would be hard to earn a living for a family doing so. Much less spending quality time with them during peak times and running 2 trips a day. Obviously the best of the best probably could, but even they had to start somewhere. I respect and admire most of them, and I believe that the good ones who share information get this back two fold from recommendations and long lasting relations, friendships, and repeat buisness.

I talked about this with my wife, and for what an average guy shells out for boats, motors, electronics, gear, and tackle, he could take many, many charter trips before he ever even fills the truck and boat with gas for a day. LOL, she told me "then sell the boat" :lol:. IMO charters are one of the best deals out there, but it will never replace the romance of rigging and catching these fish on your own.

That about sums it up right there... NONE of it, running a charter or running your own boat, makes financial sense. The only way it adds up is because you love doing it. I said I could go on a charter every week through the summer, never have to take care of a boat, and spend HALF of what I do to run my own rig, but I love it. I love having people who dont even get out on the water get man-handled by the biggest fish they will ever catch in their lives. The smile on peoples face is priceless.

[halfcore]

Something that no one else has mentioned, you also need to know how to catch fish. Not talking about throwing a couple of lures in the water off Ludington in August....I'm talking about catching them when fishing is tough.

It's funny so many guys these days think they can just start a charter business because they whacked them a few times over the past couple years when the fishing has been bonkers.....but yet they "prefer" not to because it sounds like such a hassle, etc.

I have a buddy who tried the same thing last year. He thought he was a world beater out there because he (and the rest of the world) had been catching alot of fish the past few years, but came to find out he was a nobody in the local charter fleet. He couldn't get any information or help from other boats once he started running trips, struggled catching fish when other charters where whacking them a few times.....and then just gave up. Couldn't handle the pressure and dock politics that go along with the job.. I told him he should've trailered instead so he could sneak off without his customers seeing the other boats catches when he bombed. Or at least move to a private marina where he had no competition. Instead it was the dissappointed looks on his customers faces when they stood in line at the cleaning station with 3 fish while the rest of the fleet averaged 12-15...A couple of those stints are what did him in.. He is a really nice guy too, and a decent fisherman....but just couldnt produce consistently and couldn't deal with the pressure.

It probably didnt help that he had no existing customer base either....I still give him crap about it to this day :)

[catchabunch]

I agree with you on the $75.00 a day that is way high in my opinion. As this would equate to about $10,500 for a 5 month season which is a bit pricey for insurance and a slip.:D At that rate everybody would'nt want to start charter fishing they would want to start buying marinas or insuring boats.;) Not sure who posted on the double slip rates but in a state marina they are required to charge you double for slip rental from what I understood which is why it was pricey when I left Alpena because we slipped in Presque Isle. But any of the marinas I know of in Muskegon are the same for everyone except we pay a little bit more for a key to the fish station because they figure we use it more. I believe their are people doing this that are making money but they didn't just start doing it either. Granted you have to start somewhere but with the economy and stuff you have to have some decent conections to insure trips coming in. Overall a fun business and hopefully won't stop anytime soon. Although I have been looking for some doughball recipes and bodyarmor for when we start running asian carp trips.:yikes:

[double trouble]

in the whole fresh water fishing industry.its a declining business. a couple guys i know run charters. they work hard and make a living. it barely pays the bills. If you devote your life to something and are good doing it , you will will be happy and make a good enough living.thats all we can ask for.thats why we are seeing the same old guys ,year after year at the fishing shows. there is not much incentive to get in the industry when times are rough.
if your buddy wants to get in, start small. i have one friend who charters walleye out of a 20 foot boat.makes barely enough to pay his expenses for the year. makes a lot of friends.works full time too.
you don't need a 36 foot tiara to start.take some classes .get a license. work as a mate. sharpen your interpersonal skills. then take the plunge .

[Bob's Outdoors]

BTW - to the previous question about charging double, in the case of municpal marina's its because it is the LAW, not "because they can".

I think the origional post talked about "getting rich", not why do they do it. To argue that "there are so many they must be making money", well good luck on that. Yeah, they are just swimming in free tackle and stuff. Sure.

BTW - What tournament out there does not require charter captains to fish pro?

Most of the "complaining" I hear is just that they get a steady stream of part timers who sell charters cheap, often less than what it costs to run, give the customers a crappy experience and slink off into the night, leaving the legitimate charters with one less customer, or more than one because they go back to Chicago and tell everyone that the charters in Ludington are a ripoff. The only other complaining I hear is about gas prices, but who doesn't complain about that.

I am not "crying for the poor charters", hey they are doing what they want to do. I just think its naive to think its a get rich quick idea.

Personally they can have it. The fishing I would love, the customers would make me NUTS.

Now anyone who thinks they are making a ton of money can head down to the boat show and buy that Tiara, sign up for a class and start raking it in! All it takes is a business plan where you show the bank how much you will make.

[Trophy Specialist]

I don't know of one persn that makes their entire living from charter fishing in MI. The season is too short here. I can say that with the poor economy in MI, and the sharply rising operating expenses, and the problems with some fisheries, that it's a heck of a lot harder to run a charter business now than it was here in the past. I would not want to be trying to start a new charter business here now as it probably would be a tough proposition.

[salmonhead]

I started chartering last year. I am part time. I ran 23 trips last year and most of them were discounts through donations or gave out more time for free to keep the customer happy type thing. I made enough to pay for my fuel, boat payment, insurance for the year. not covered were the inspections, tackle, tackle, lures, tackle, gear, safety upgrades, and obtaining my USCG license etc. I was happy with the income. I am a contractor and charter on days that I don't have a real job to be at. For me, it pays for a habit that I already have. This year, I hope to offset the other costs that were initiated last year as well as paying for fuel, insurance and boat payment. I estimate for my operating costs I need to do about 30 trips per season to break even. However, take into account, that break even for me is paying for a boat that I already had, so to me, that is coming out ahead. I work 7 days a week in summer, so this helps to keep me busy. I am not the cheap charter. I wish I could charge more. I am as expensive as anyone in the ports that I fish, but still get enough charters. If your boat is paid for, that would help immensely in the profit area. I also do not slip the boat, I trailer and only slip if I have charters two days in a row. But slips are a couple or few grand a season as well. If you are going to have the boat anyway, then the incremental costs of doing business are not too terrible. My insurance doubled, slip fees double in state facilities, ramp access is hindered as well as the inspections and fees and crap like that, but that can be paid for with a couple trips.
It works for me at this time. Time will tell how it works in the future.

[Cap'n Jeff]

OK, I'll add my 2 cents worth. I have run Salmon charters since 1995 and I think that the Walleye or the Laketrout up in Grindstone boys run more . In 2001 and 2002 I ran charters "full time" and I ran the most charters that I have ever run - around 60 trips each year was all I could muster. By the time I paid all of my true expenses it amounted to $4.00 / Hr. and that is the honest to God's truth. On a "good week" or I should say my "best week" I ran 11 charters in 7 days. I was so tired I didn't know if I was coming or going. The following week I didnt have a charter until the weekend and I fretted over "no work". The good news was that I was really onto the fish, I checked my log and we took over 100 fish that week. I still run some charters but only part time because I have a "real job that pays the bills" but it has been my experience that the only way to make a living at it is to be connected well enough to consistantly run 100 trips a year and if you do, you had better learn how to get by on 4 hours sleep a night. The only reason that I still run charters part time is that I like to fish. One last comment - with today's economy, the number of people who have the extra money to charter a boat are far less than what it used to be and many of the 100 trip guys ran far less the last few years.