Question: 12 quage pump vs. semiauto

[DaveW731]

Looking to purchase either a pump or a semiauto (probably an 870 or an 1100) that I will use for small game and then get a slug barrel for deer. I have always used a double-barrel, and have deer hunted north of the gun line. Will be starting to hunt in the southern part of the state, which is why I want a slug gun.
With those factors in mind, and if price is not an issue, what are the advantages/disadvantages of both types of guns, for the type of hunting I will be doing?
Thanks,
Dave

[skipper34]

For deer hunting with a shotgun with a slug barrel or rifled barrel, the 870 has much more recoil. I have an 1100 with a cantilever rifled barrel and even though I only take 1 shot most of the time, the gun is a great shooter and depending on the slug used, it is very accurate out to 150 yards. I shoot the Remington Core-lokt ultra in 12 ga. Stay clear of 3 inch magnum, only difference is more recoil. Don't need 3 inch for deer hunting. There are many used 1100's out there. Try Williams in Davison, they have a good selection of used guns. Or try Guns Galore in Fenton. If you want to purchase new, for an autoloader, the 11-87 is great. I think Remington has dropped the 1100 in a deer hunting set-up.

[explodingvarmints]

I know that this is not part of the answer you looking for but, I would buy a dedicated slug gun that the scope NEVER comes off of. small game and everything else could be done with any pump or semi. I prefer semi's myself, and for that matter Benelli s.b.e.
I have not found a thing that will stop this gun. even when the action closed with a cattail in it (very windy that day) it kept functioning like normal.... I was not functioning normal since i was gagging on those little fluffy things forever. for a pump I would most likely go with the 870 pump. there are so many different barrels, stocks, finishes, chokes, and anything else you'd ever want for this model. My next pump choice would be the benelli nova. Best value and the most gun for the money in this category... god awefull ugly, but what the hay. For what it's worth, I would run the other direction from anyone trying to sell me their remmi 1100 or 1187! I have never had any luck with them. Just the other day I read on this site someone calling them 'jammingtons'! I laughed my **** off. I use a moss. 500 12 for my 'dedicated' slug gun (i'm working on my 2nd in 7years) and am okay with it. They are low-grade guns that will not stand up to a large amount of shooting, wood sucks, finish sucks, and the forearm slop sucks. The next slug gun will most likely be a dedicated slugger like the n.e.f. or a bolt action. You know you want that benelli, so go and buy it:evil: !

[TIMfromTroy]

I have an 870 with a cantilever and a fully rifled barrel. As with shooting a slug out of any pump, there is a lot of recoil. It has considerably more recoil than my 30-06. I have never shot a slug out of a semi-auto shotgun so I can't tell you how much less recoil that would have.

I also have an 870 express which I used as my all around small game/waterfowl and upland gun.

The reason I bought a dedicated slug gun was that a new slug barrel with a cantilever was about $200. I figured I may as well spend a little more and keep one dedicated slug gun. I also didn't want to sight-in the scope every time I changed barrels. But there is no reason you couldn't do this.

I think when comparing any pump to a semi-auto there is one obvious trade off; the semi-auto will give you a faster second shot but there is a greater chance of it jamming when compared to a pump; particulary in cold weather. But the chances of a clean, well maintained, semi-auto jamming are slim.

[goemado]

I have an 870 with a cantilever and a fully rifled barrel. As with shooting a slug out of any pump, there is a lot of recoil. It has considerably more recoil than my 30-06. I have never shot a slug out of a semi-auto shotgun so I can't tell you how much less recoil that would have.

I also have an 870 express which I used as my all around small game/waterfowl and upland gun.

The reason I bought a dedicated slug gun was that a new slug barrel with a cantilever was about $200. I figured I may as well spend a little more and keep one dedicated slug gun. I also didn't want to sight-in the scope every time I changed barrels. But there is no reason you couldn't do this.

I think when comparing any pump to a semi-auto there is one obvious trade off; the semi-auto will give you a faster second shot but there is a greater chance of it jamming when compared to a pump; particulary in cold weather. But the chances of a clean, well maintained, semi-auto jamming are slim.

I've shot slugs out of bolt action, pump, and semi-auto. If you're going to use the gun for deer hunting and use slugs, I would recommend a semi-auto. It's great with a smooth bore barrel for anything you'd want to shoot. With a separate, rifled deer barrel, you'll appreciate the recoil reduction that a semi-auto offers.

My setup is an 11-87 with separate barrels (smooth/rifled). It's done everything I've asked it to. Only problem I've had (and I seem to be in the minority) are numerous, fairly serious (one involving a new action fitted at Remington), defects with the gun. So, if I were in the market for a new shotgun, I'd get a Browning Gold in a heartbeat and would not select a Remington 11-87 -- again, most people have had great luck with their 11-87's from what I've read on the boards...so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Good luck.

[Brown duck]

At least for small game hunting, I would rather have the pump. I have both a pump and semi-auto Winchester, and while I cannot speak specifically for Remingtons, I wouldn't want to lug my semi-auto around while stalking the elusive grouse or bunny all day - the pump is much, much lighter. Of course, you say you have a double barrel - why not just use that for small game?

[KI Jim]

I have hunted with a 870 set up with a Mossberg barrel and a Bushnell wide view 1.75 x 4 scope for almost 20 years. It has served me very well. Yes, it does kick, but the gun is well balanced, reasonably light and a delight to shoot. Never had a problem with it.

As far the the kick "issue"-the only time it is really an issue is when you are shooting slugs. I use a Lightfield 1 oz rifled sabot and have never had a problem knocking down a deer with them. Now if you use a 1.25 oz Remington "Buckhammer" then yeah, the kick is heavy-but then again, it is heavy in a semi-auto also. This past year, I seperated my right shoulder and could not shoot full power loads, so I changed up to Lightfield managed recoil ("Litefield Lites"). Absolutely loved 'em. 2 shots...2 deer. First one was at 40 yards, second at 90. Both went right down.

my $.02

Jim

[Ferris_StateHunter]

If you like double barrels so much, stick to them for that. If for only you want a deer gun, Consider a muzzleloader. More than legal in the southern half, just as accurate as most rifles at farther distances than a slug. Also it extends your gun hunting season in mid december... Might be something to consider

[FREEPOP]

Dave, you're getting old and you won't like the recoil. :lol: Get a Remington 870 in 20 gauge and you can shoot most anything in the state with out shaking your teeth out.

[Brandon7]

yeah i have an 870.... like it a lot.. Dependable.. Any more questions.:D

[DaveW731]

Dave, you're getting old and you won't like the recoil. :lol: Get a Remington 870 in 20 gauge and you can shoot most anything in the state with out shaking your teeth out.

How DARE You, picking on your elders!!!:lol:
Actually, that thought crossed my mind...grew up shooting a 20 and had no problems with small game. Wasn't sure if a 20 guage slug was enough for deer, however....what are the performance differences between a 20 and 12 guage slug?
Also, the other reason I am considering a new gun is that my double is an old, heavy Stevens side-by-side dual trigger that I inherited from my father (now HE is old!!!!) that I don't want to lug around anymore.....dang! Guess I AM getting old:SHOCKED: . Figure I will get it reconditioned a bit then just keep it for sentimental reasons.

[Ole Spike]

My Rem. 870 12 gauge is now close to 20 years old and it has never failed me. The thing is indestructible and of very good quality. I highly recommend it. The gun has all kinds of wear but nothing has ever failed to function.

[bps10ga]

have a dedicated slug gun you'll be happier in the long run, use the double for everything else. I wouldn't trade my mossberg 695 for any other slug gun i've shot to date it's cheap, accurate and it'll take the elements and still keep going.

[john warren]

soot the one you like the looks and feel of. both are good.

[MuskyDan]

for the same money you can buy an 870 for birds and a H&R ultra slug gun. Buy the slug gun in a 20ga. and then you can buy extra barrels for it for 50 to 100 dollars. Example, 50 cal. muzzleloader, 243, 270, 30-06, 22-250,22mag, and a 17hmr. No you'll have a multitude of guns.

[jawbreaker]

The H&R is one hell of a slug gun, and the cost is around $200.00. If you can afford I would personally got for the bird gun you prefer and add the H&R to the mix.

Jawbreaker

[Bluegill]

I had a Rem 1100 in the late 70's and 80's. At first it started out as a pretty good gun. Then the jamming started. I also had a problem with the lever that pulls the bolt back falling out. I actually had to buy spares. The gun also cost more. Anyway that's why I now own a Rem. 870.

As for faster follow up shots. Once you get used to a pump shotgun, racking the next shell will become automatic. you won't really notice the difference.

For shooting slugs I have a Hastings rifled barrel with a cantilever scope mount. I just leave the scope mounted on the barrel when I change barrels.

To be honest I have shot as many deer with the 1100 as the 870 before it started to jam.

Bluegill

[vandermi]

For deer hunting with a shotgun with a slug barrel or rifled barrel, the 870 has much more recoil. I have an 1100 with a cantilever rifled barrel and even though I only take 1 shot most of the time, the gun is a great shooter and depending on the slug used, it is very accurate out to 150 yards. I shoot the Remington Core-lokt ultra in 12 ga. Stay clear of 3 inch magnum, only difference is more recoil. Don't need 3 inch for deer hunting. There are many used 1100's out there. Try Williams in Davison, they have a good selection of used guns. Or try Guns Galore in Fenton. If you want to purchase new, for an autoloader, the 11-87 is great. I think Remington has dropped the 1100 in a deer hunting set-up.

I agree with the less recoil! My wife bought me the 11- 87 cantelever rifeled scope with thumbhole stock for my Birthday in November :D "God I love her" and it is sweet. I have used single shots, pumps and for the last 8 years a Mossberg 595 bolt. Now I will tell you the bolt action is a tack driver, but this new 11-87 shoots tighter groups and recoil is easy on you. Dropped an eight opening morning at 110 yards ande that afternoon put a doe in the freezer at 160 yards. Both dropped where I shot them and with the neww SST slugs entrance wound was right where I aimed on both of them.

I loved the bolt action, but it is up for sale now!

[GoneHunting]

I have been shooting an 870 for 10 years and never had a bit of trouble out of it. And to be honest I don't take as good care of it as I should (not like my new t/c pro hunter), it should be cleaned a lot more frequently but I can be lazy. Pro - Takes all the abuse you can give it without fail. Con - Kick's like a stubborn mule. Pro - Great bang for the buck. Just my 2cents.

[FISH]

if i were you i'd use the double for small game and get a newer inline put a nice scope on it and you're ready to shoot, muzzelloaders are really simple to load but have someone that has a muzzelloader help you load and clean it properly the first time. inline muzzelloaders are easy to clean, more fun, accurate at long ranges with practice out to 150-200, and they have alot recoil then slug guns do. good luck
Goble

[DaveW731]

Lots of great ideas. I hope to take the old blunderbuss out this weekend and try to kick up some bunnies....see how this 50yo body feels about carrying it around after a few hours. If it goes OK, maybe I will just look for a dedicated slug gun or an inline muzzie. If not, sounds like the 11-87 12guage, or dropping down to a 20 guage in the 870 may work. Was suprised about the recoil in the 870....I assumed that it would be less than a .30-06, which is all the recoil I want to deal with, wimp that I am:) .

[KalamazooKid]

and if price is not an issue

Then I would definately go with an auto-loader ..... I love my Benelli Nova (pump) but man that thing lifts my feet off the gound when shooting those magnum turkey loads!:lol: (I DO happen to like the pain though:evil: )

[steelhead05]

Hope you don't mind I am steelheads father, My father has one of the first 870's out there and I would gladly give my arm for it.I have seen him take deer with it out to 2 hundred yards. I and my son own remmies him an 870 i gave him and myself an 11-87.They never miss, my eldest son has a single shot h&r and has had to have it rebuilt several times. Brownings and Bennelis are nice guns but they are like Harleys you have to baby them and you pay alot extra for the name. 1100's were fine but had problems jamming and now have since been replaced by the 11-87 and upgraded gas systems , 1100's would jam if too cold and moisture built up.Lot's of wd-40 then and sooner or later major cleaning when done hunting.Inlines are great try the CVA kodiak magnum, price is cheaper than the Encores and same performance for the money.Whatever you choose you still have to make the shot.........thanks

[Zarathustra]

Here is something I have noticed after deer hunting with both pump shotguns and autoloaders.

Often a deer that doesn't drop at the first shot will not know where the shot came from. I find often times the deer stop and try to locate the source. Sometimes it will even run to me.

When this would happen and I was hunting with a pump gun, the noise from pumping the gun would spook the deer and make my second shot more difficult. With the autoloader, this is not an issue. It makes second shots easier for me for this reason.

For those who always have deer drop dead after one shot, I guess this is not an issue.