Where are the deer?

[281 hunter]

After returning from another trip from the western up (porkies). We have all decided it will be the last.Have been going there every year for 12 years straight, and have seen our hunting party dwindle from 13 or 14 guys to the last loyal 4.We used to see numerous deer and alot of smaller bucks, with some large bucks taken also.After discussing with the local people and the DNR (stationed at the park),the park now has two wolf packs approx 20 wolves total.The officer told us tha each wolf kills about 20 deer per year.He also noted that they had 0 winter kill.
If the wolves are taking 400 deer per year, i am sure the deer that are not killed will move out of the area.We saw far fewer deer and deer sign than any other year to date.It always has been a great place to hunt ,but with the proposed license increases and constant deer herd mismanagement, it makes the decision to go to another state where the quality of the deer are far superior a no brainer.I have never missed an opener in Michigan for 30 years but next year will be the first. (just look at OHIO DNR, IOWA DNR ,Wisconson,Illinois,Missouri,Kentucky,etc.)We drive 11 hours anyways so we might as well try something new.Also, we did not kill (or see ) a single buck this year and had one of the best hunts ever.It is all in the people you hunt with (which is another reason we can huint elswhere).Good luck with the wolves and i just wonder how much revenue they are bringing to the UP.

[One Eye]

What is it that you would like the DNR to do about the wolves?? With all due respect, the Michigan DNR has no jurisdiction over them as they are federally protected and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

I have heard some really positive reports of a great season in many parts of the UP. Has your group ever thought about moving to another location. Obviously, the deer have no problems with moving.

Good luck with your travels. I hope you find what you are looking for in the other states.

Dan

[north_of_mackinaw]

"It is all in the people you hunt with" (original quote)

Sorry to hear about the decline of a favorite hunting area of yours, sounds like you had some great hunts in the past. I too have had some good hunting areas change over the years. Sometimes the people I hunted with moved on or the area itself changed for various reasons.
I agree about it all being in the people you hunt with,and wish you well as you look for another place to hunt.

[bigcountrysg]

the same place the ice is in my freezer:lol:

[ganzzer60]

If you try to hunt in many public places in the northern lower you will have the same experience. It has nothing to do with wolves just a mismanaged resource by our DNR. I too am considering taking my hunting dollars to another state. But, a word of caution - some of the people that read these posts really take offense if you question the DNR. I was blasted by a few of these "members" for questioning how our license dollars are spent. GOOD LUCK!!!!:smile-mad

[username]

thats right, not a deer left in the UP. Go out of state everyone, nothing up here but wolves:) .

[yoopertoo]

What is it that you would like the DNR to do about the wolves?? With all due respect, the Michigan DNR has no jurisdiction over them as they are federally protected and will remain so for the foreseeable future.


The DNR just published the Wolf Management Roundtable Report.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Final_Roundtable_Report_178862_7.pdf

If the wolf is delisted (which is expected from what I understand) and the DNR is allowed to manage them then I would like to see them set actual population targets for wolves in the UP. These population goals should not be set according to the wolf carrying capacity of the UP. They should be set with deer numbers in mind. The current report does not recommend this, but it is due to a political impasse. See the section on "Wolf Harvest For Reasons Other Than Managing Wolf-Related Conflicts". Where the DNR stood on this (they were members of the roundtable too) I'm not sure, but I will find out soon. Anybody know?

[uptracker]

Aside from the wolf issue, I know many people who grew up hunting the U.P. and did for 30+ years. Many haven't hunted here in more than five years and won't come back "until things are fixed." These are the old stump sitter type guys and they now hunt out of state or not at all. You talk to a lot of locals from the WUP, excluding the areas close to Menominee, and you'll hear the same thing. It's similar over here in the EUP too by the way. I'm still trying to figure out why it was so much better before bait and..........well, nevermind.

[uptracker]

One more thing, I went out of state this year and went with or saw a ton of U.P. hunters in the area I was hunting. I was amazed at the smaller bucks that they shot when all they had to do was wait another day or two to see a couple monster bucks...........I'm talking 160" deer. Maybe a little off topic, but a good, yet surprising, observation if you ask me.

[Trophy Specialist]

After discussing with the local people and the DNR (stationed at the park),the park now has two wolf packs approx 20 wolves total.The officer told us tha each wolf kills about 20 deer per year.He also noted that they had 0 winter kill.
Actually that number, acording to several wolf experts that I just interviewed for articles, is more like 30-50 deer per wolf per year.

There are no plans in MI wolf management plan to control wolf numbers to protect big game populations, including for deer. That is what Brian Roell, MI's wolf coordinator told me and also what I got from reading the plan. If anybody can show me where the plan says that wolves will be killed to benifit deer, then please share that with us.

[281 hunter]

thats right, not a deer left in the UP. Go out of state everyone, nothing up here but wolves:) ..

Obviously you are not a business owner in the UP, or work for someone that has anything to do with tourism. I know for a fact they do not have the same opinion as you do.

[tadmdad]

Aside from the wolf issue, I know many people who grew up hunting the U.P. and did for 30+ years. Many haven't hunted here in more than five years and won't come back "until things are fixed." These are the old stump sitter type guys and they now hunt out of state or not at all. You talk to a lot of locals from the WUP, excluding the areas close to Menominee, and you'll hear the same thing. It's similar over here in the EUP too by the way. I'm still trying to figure out why it was so much better before bait and..........well, nevermind.


Stump sitters!:yikes: And all this time I thought we were TROLLS:bonk:

[yoopertoo]

There are no plans in MI wolf management plan to control wolf numbers to protect big game populations, including for deer. That is what Brian Roell, MI's wolf coordinator told me and also what I got from reading the plan.

TS, Do you know what the DNR opinion is on this? Do they want to manage wolves in a way that would lessen their impact on deer numbers?

[Trophy Specialist]

TS, Do you know what the DNR opinion is on this? Do they want to manage wolves in a way that would lessen their impact on deer numbers?
The plan addresses livestock depredation, but not deer or other big game numbers. At this point, the DNR wants wolf numbers to be allowed to grow until prey numbers limit that growth. At the high rate that wolves are multiplying across the U.P. wolfs will be having more and more of an impact on deer numbers. There is no majic number of wolves where the proposed wolf plan will allow sport hunting, trapping or other means of reducing their numbers. To me it is unacceptable that big game populations, with their huge economic and cultural impact, are not a priority in any wolf management plan iin Michigan. To me the lack of leadership on that issue from the DNR is very disapointing. They are so afraid of lawsuits from wolf (bunny) huggers that the plan will do more harm to wolves than good. Hunters will not sit by and watch their deer hunting lifesyle get decimated by wolves. Wolves are being shot now at a high rate and if things don't improve, then you'll see an escalation of wolf killings tactics with poison and other frightful tactics. This is what's happening in certain areas out west where wolves have been wiped out once again.

[uptracker]

Stump sitters!:yikes: And all this time I thought we were TROLLS:bonk:

That's not what I meant.:lol: I meant these were the types of guys that sat on one stump for days on end all day long and always shot a good buck. They were the "original" type if you ask me........aside from the still hunters.

[RiverKat]

I've only hunted in the WUP once. It was back in 01. I'm not really sure where except that we were in the Porkies and somewhere along Canyon Creek. We had great hunt. Saw lots of deer a few bucks and lots of wildlife in general. Sorry to hear things arent going so well these days. Heard good things from the EUP this season.

Dan