What grasses work best for bedding?

[Tibbs]

I am getting ready to plant native grasses on my property for bedding purposes. The ground is pretty much heavy clay and is currently farmed. I am doing this through the Shiawassee Conservation District and I can choose from swich grass or Big Blue stem. I have noticed big bluestem fields in the area that are really thick in August but as winter approaches it seems to thin out considerably. Any advice? What has worked well for you?

[farmlegend]

How's this for an answer? - it depends.

Depends on what else is around you. It is true that switchgrass will stand up better in the winter. However, no warm season grass is ideal winter/thermal cover for late December through spring. If you have good winter/thermal cover available, I'd ditch the switchgrass, and plant a mix of Big Blue and Indiangrass (a MUST, and I'd probably have more injungrass in the mix than BB). BB and Indiangrass make for a prairie landscape that deer not only will bed in, but will feel more comfortable moving around in. Switchgrass is thicker, to the point where deer practically have to "bound" to move through it. I have 4 plots of NWSG's, and have found greater all-around deer use in my BB/Indiangrass/Little Blue stands than in pure switchgrass. Curiously, it seems that deer like to bed near the edges of my switchgrass field, while they use the entire field of the "other" grasses.

Here's a shot of a food plot surrounded by BigBlue/Indiangrass/LittleBlue, taken 11/07/2004. Believe me, when those deer stepped into the grasses, they became invisible.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/539/medium/420BottomPkFawns.JPG

You may wish to do a stand of each sort of grass. Be advised that a grass mix containing switchgrass will eventually become a switchgrass monoculture.

[lyndon43]

I like the big blue (turkeys foot) & Indian grass comb.
If worried about the thermal, do some pockets or strips of conifers & shrubs

[stick bow]

I had about 12 acres cut a couple years ago hoping for thick poplar regrowth but did not have as many poplars as I once thought or just didn't get the regeneration. I am getting new growth from the maple stumps that the deer love. The area can get slightly wet in the spring and holds some water in the ruts caused by the cutting equipment, I have even seen a few cat tails. Can this area be planted in warm weather grasses or will something else be of more benefit? Do you just broadcast seed to get these grasses to grow.

[bishs]

Switch grass can be broadcast on tilled grond. Then cover and pack. Indian grass and Big Bluestem have to be drilled in with a special no-till grass drill. That can be rented from your county ag extension or Pheasants forever branches. The seeds have "fluff" attached to the seed. The seed hopper has an agitator that swirls around to keep the grasses from clumping up. These seeds are planted very shallow, 1/4 inch or so. You better see 50% of your seed exposed after planting to ensure its done right. The planter creates a tiny furrow that the seed falls in. After the first rain the bare seed is covered.

Weed control is critical... Grasses can take 2-3 years to get established

[Swamp Ghost]

You can "de-beard" the fluffy WSG seeds by tumbling them with cracked corn or pot ash in a cement mixer. You can also (depending on location and amount you are going to plant) take your bags of seed and have your co-op tumble it with the fertilizer for your site in the load blender and then spread it with the use of one of their spreader carts.

Or you can buy a Truax Seed Slinger for $400. :confused:
http://www.truaxcomp.com/images/slinger-tall.jpg

Don't see how they can justify the price of this thing.

[thetreestandguy]

I'm in a few programs and our extension agents (Eaton Co.) are using this guy to plant grasses. He's the largest grass planting operation in the country. We're in our second year and the grasses came in much better than I expected this summer. While pheasant hunting I could barely keep track of the dog with grasses 6'+ and kicked deer out almost everytime I went out. Once the deer get a few feet in they just disappear! Before anyone says it, I know...I kicked deer out. I also love to pheasant hunt and my dog's long in the tooth, probably her last year chasing around her favorite game species!

They spray, plant several varieties of grasses at once, same for native flowers, and put borders of cool season grasses around the perimeter for fire breaks. Watched some deer munching on the clover borders last night in fact.

If memory serves it cost about $2,400 for 14 acres...I only had to pay for the spraying ($600?), the program paid the difference. They come to Michigan often and have top notch equipment for planting.
FDC Enterprises Inc.
614-286-8988

[SIZE-MATTERS]

We have 18 acres of switch grass and 28 acres of WSG mix. I love them both but as for holding deer the switch grass by far holds more deer. We kick more deer out of it while pheasant hunting then any other area on the 152 acres of CRP. We burn 50+/- acres every year. FL you hunted their a couple years ago let me asure you it has only gotten better.

[koz bow]

Ok, first time post ever. I am officially now no longer a virgin!

I have an area that is currently fertilized, sprayed and was planted in soy beans this past season that I want to plant about 2-3 acres of grass in. Right along side it I am planning on a 2 acre plot of Ed Spinazzola's two seed mixes, one in brassicas and one in perennials. I also plan on planting evergreens around this area to provide some additional cover.

I have quite a few pheasants in the area (if I can keep my neighbors from shooting them) and in total I have 100 acres. I am looking for some cover primarily for deer to keep them from getting shot on the neighbors, through the gun season and once the snow falls, I have plenty of other areas for them to hang out on my 100 acres.

This section is part of a 20 acre crop section that I want to eventually turn into cover. As an example, 3 years ago I took a 6 acre section and planted 3500 trees and shrubs for deer cover and within the next two years it is going to be awesome. (the local Boy Scout troop is a great resource for the hard work part of this by the way)

The ground is relatively clay like and this area will be dry during the peak of the summer. I have access to a farmer that will help me plant whatever I want.

Any suggestions on the mix. I am seeing good comments on switch grass, big blue and Indian grass.....I am looking for something that will last for the long term and with all the other projects I have going on, (especially after I attend Tony LaPratt's boot camp in March) I will not have too much time for maintenance.

A little help here would be appreciated.

[Tibbs]

Interesting... Every time I bring this subject up with hunters I get mixed responses. Some seem to like the big blue stem over switch and others vice versa. That tells me it probably doesn't matter weather I plant switch grass or the blue stem mixture.. I never thought of the thermal aspect of the grasses. Thanks to all who responded.
Also from what I hear many peolpe plant these grasses and give up after the first year not realizing that it takes a couple years minimum to establish a nice stand of grass. In all I have 12 acres that will be planted to grasses, 2 acres into spruce, 2 acres into shrubs and a 1 acre food plot. I also have 12 acres of river bottom for bedding as well as 3 acres of mature red oaks.

[billya]

I am not sure regarding the switchgrass but the Warm Season Grasses go flat on the first heavy snow fall. So there is no cover from now 12 - 4- 06 until the birthing season. I have CREP planted and will now go with other grasses that keep or stay upright all winter. I am starting to think the non-native grasses that grow along the highways is the best. I do not know the name of it but I hear that it is not quality for anything, but it is everywhere and creates good cover all winter.

[SIZE-MATTERS]

I can asure you even after the ice and snow my switch is still at least 3 feet off the ground it did not go flat, deer and pheasants are still in it.

koz bow, I'm sorry I must total disagree with you. If you dont shoot those ROOSTERS then most wont live to see their first birthday. As long as you do not shoot hens and you have nestig cover you will have pheasants. Too many roosters is not a good thing, ask Mike Parker, Regional bologist for PF.

[Grouse Hunter]

FL did you have any trouble establishing those stands of BB and IG?

[farmlegend]

FL did you have any trouble establishing those stands of BB and IG?

No. In fact, the BB/IG established more quickly, I believe, due to the fact that I was able to spray the plot with Plateau herbicide in both the first and second seasons. Plateau will kill switchgrass.

[koz bow]

Ok, first of all Size Matters - thanks for the rooster comment. Incidently, I have lots of roosters and very few hens. I occassionally see them in the fall and sometimes a couple in the spring, but I have seen as many as 12 roosters and only one hen a group. I don't feel so bad now about them getting harvested.

On the grass side of things - I am hearing for speed and ability to control weeds, BB and IG are the best mixture. If you could control weeds where planted in advance and have good soil to establish the grass quickly, before the weeds come in, a combination of the two plus some switch grass might be the ticket.

Finally, Farm Legend - YES - I am sick of traditional deer management...I am appalled by the actions of my neighbors this past season. I have joined QDMA and with the help of Lindsay Thomas I am working on a cooperative plan that could take a lifetime to establish in my area based on the "slaughter" mentality in play with the little bucks who seem to be much less intelligent than the mature does and certainly the mature bucks.

If I can pull it off "if" it will be a text book case of making a deer cooperative in the most uncooperative place in the country.

[bishs]

Location is probably more key than the grass type. There is one distinct difference later in the winter. When a heavy snow falls, my grasses lay down. As soon as the snows melts a bit, the switch grass pops right back. It's really amazing. It looks good in early spring, hard to tell it was ever flat. My mixture of Big Bluestem, and Indian grass stays flat. But it looks like there are different varieties that may behave differently. My brother planted Bluestem and Indian grass, his Indian Grass dominated the stand. This grass grew 6-7 feet tall and has a very large diameter stalk. Much larger than any of my grasses. I will keep an eye on it, see how it behaves after heavy snow fall.

[bishs]

Tibbs this forum is Whitetail deer habitat, you can go to the front page and go to the bottom to Wildlife Habitat also, good stuff

[4x4_Hunter]

What about soil conditions to grow SG, BB, or IG? Do any of the 3 grow better or worse in less than perfect soil conditions (low pH levels, swampy wet ground, etc.)? What about sunny-vs-shaddy areas? Can any of these grasses grow just fine in mostly shadded areas, or do they need mostly sunny?

[bishs]

These grasses can grow in less than favorable soil. Switch grass can handle dry or areas with seasonal wet spots. I would say its the most versatile. Big Bluestem will drop its seeds, and these seedlings will grow up through the grass to fill in open spaces. But typicaly all these grasses are considered to be "not shade tolerant."

If you are unable to plant these grasses through a program you may want to grow switch grass. Its much cheaper to buy, and many people get there seed free from pheasants forever. Just join a local chapter. That is where I got my seed.