good or bad ice

[sharphooks]

Can anyone tell me the signs of weak or bad ice? I know bad ice is when you go in. Beside that, How does bad ice look, feel, color etc. Also good ice, what are the characteristics? I'm mainly interested in Saginaw Bay.

I always let my buddy lead. I may miss him some year, but what the heck are buddies for!!!:fish: :lol:

[bigsid]

Bad ice will have a cloudy or "spongy" look to it as it is full of air. Good ice is solid with little or no bubbles in it. AKA 'black ice".

If you're new to this thing, make sure you go with someone who can point these things out for you. Trial and error is not the way to go with icefishing!

Hope this helps...Sid

[hoffie1]

BigSid is right,if the ice is discolored stay clear or if the ice just does not look like the surrounding ice go around it.The bay has pockets that just don't freeze well so when heading out or in keep that in mind and you should be allright.Also pay attention to the wind when past the cracks.Good luck out there.

[sharphooks]

thanks for the advice guys. I'll try not to go in the drink.

[MrBluegill]

thanks for the advice guys. I'll try not to go in the drink.

yeah watch what ice you going to me fishn on I had to learn the hardway:help:

[sea nympho]

...took the plunge myself once. I really like my spud bar now:chillin:

[sea nympho]

Got myself out with that spud because i was holding it. Personallly i dont go out on less than 3 good (solid, clear) inches or 4-5+ shady inches of ice. I hold the spud while walking out if unsure, tapping the ice as i go. I break test holes every 50 yds or so to check, until i feel ok about it.

[fishonbb]

I never go by how it looks, if i'm by myself i check with my spud every step or so just for the simple fact one time the ice looked good and i checked the ice out 10 feet and it was thick and solid but i kept walking out thinking i was ok and checked the ice again and the spud went right through so i never go out when i'm alone, it was a very scary feeling. Needless to say i crept back and went home.

[hardwaterfan]

theres a lot to look for..... seems like near shore areas are always the most hazardous. definitely avoid areas where ice has been broken up, blown back to shore, and refroze. you could hit a weak spot.

always better to follow fresh footprints to get away from shore.

either drill and inspect the ice or use a spud bar.

ice goes from crystal clear ("black") to white, to dark again from melting and sucking up water. if the ice seems dark and wet thats not good. also watch if water is coming up in the hole then the ice is bending due to your weight.

if the ice is making noise thats almost always good. silent ice is not increasing in strength.

lots and lots to watch for. be careful.

[Ralph Smith]

Can anyone tell me the signs of weak or bad ice? I know bad ice is when you go in. Beside that, How does bad ice look, feel, color etc. Also good ice, what are the characteristics? I'm mainly interested in Saginaw Bay.

I always let my buddy lead. I may miss him some year, but what the heck are buddies for!!!:fish: :lol:

The big thing to watch out for on bay is being the ice moves in and out with wind opening cracks, you may go out one day when there was a 1/4 mile gap that refroze overnight when wind calmed. There could be 8" on either side of this area, but only 2" in that section. If your not familiar, go where others have gone and fallow a well used trail out, then go off to side and pick a spot. Always use a spud if unsure, especially when there's snow covering an area you or no one has been on. Watch the wind, and only go on bay if calm or wind blowing twards shore your heading out from. If the ice does shift when your out there, you may not know it until you head in and see a gap of open water. In this case try to see which direction its breaking away from. Usually it breaks and pivots from on direction or other, and you can find a way across one way or the other if you hurry. Ask people familiar to area (locals) if ice has blown out and came back in recently. Most will give advice that will give you some idea of recent ice conditions. I think it would be a good idea if there was a sticky or something on the icefishing section for bad ice areas to watch out for on the larger bodies of water, where fisherman can post updates on spots to watch out for. That would be helpful to many new comers to the sport and places new to them when fishing. Just remember to consider all ice unsafe, and have a plan in case the unforseen happens. Carry a rope with you, some change of clothes, and some type of spikes to pull yourself out if you need to. I carry my old boat flares that are out of date in my ice fishing stuff. Don't meet the C.G. standards for the boat anymore, but will still work probobly if I need help in winter.

[Skeeter]

Great bunch of posts on the subject. GOOD guide lines for all fisherman. The bay can be unforgiving at times. I sure love it out there though. At night it can be scarey at times summer or winter, never know what the bay is going to offer you at time. BRING on the ice! Skeeter:D

[icefishermanmark]

Water heats up fast by shore. Just because you could get out inthe morning doesn't mean you'll have ice by shore in the afternoon. Rocks and boat ramps heat up nicely and melt the ice. Try exiting away from these areas.

First ice is generally stronger than last ice. 10 inches of ice in March does not mean it's safe. It could be incredibly weak. While 3 inches at the beginning of the yeay COULD be safe.

And always carry a spud over new ice. Give it a good hit too. Nothing whimpy. Sometimes you'll get a thin layer of ice, a thin layer of water and then more ice. This can be a dangerous situation.

[ifish4eyes]

If unsure walk in the foot prints of another angler. At least you know he didn't go through if he was in front of you. any kind of ice I think is questionable I spud each step.

[The Whale]

That's a really good tip with the outdated flares Ralph Smith. ;) Never can be too safe when playing out on the ice.

[walleyeman2006]

looking at the color is fine if you have been fishing the area since the ice formed but.. white ice may simply mean it was snowing when the ice formed
and black ice may just meant it was calm and the clear nature of the ice makes it look black....... but the bad black ice is almost an eary blue color to me that happens during thaws

safest way is to check it with a sharp spud and learn how far your spud will go with one whack.......like ralph says the dangers are the the ice moving and the presure cracks

one thing people miss a lot if theres snow on the ice for one it doesnt make much ice after you get 6 inches of snow and for another if that snow melts it literally goes down through the ice thats there causing air pockets and eventually honey combed ice

[sharphooks]

sounds like the guys that walk out on the ice can test as they walk with a spud. But when you have a quad, well that's a different situation.

We follow the tracks out and back but it would be nice to have some general rules to apply to the ice even if thre are exception. So far black ice is saver than ice that looks like pop corn on top.

Ice with 6 inches of snow or more will not make new ice???
Ice may be weaker around pushes and cracks.

watch if the wind is blowing onshore or offshore.
Is there anything else that a ATVer should look for, other than the lead guy
going thru.

[MiketheElder]

Black or dark ice causes me to hesitate. It could be 5 inches of good ice or it could be 1/2 inch of new ice. I used to fish Metropolitan Beach a lot years ago. I was walking out in a familiar area but as is my habit I always (almost always) throw my spud a few feet ahead of me when I'm walking. I have a rope on the handle about a foot and a half long. Anyway I was chugging along throwing the spud hearing a nice solid thunk every throw and then suddenly it went right through a half inch of ice. I froze in midstep like a statue waiting for the collapse. Nothing happened and I backpedaled a few feet. After walking around the area it seems that that spot had melted for some reason and then refroze. It was too big for a spearing hole. Best advice. Build up those arm muscles throwing as heavy a spud as you can handle.

[fishcrazy]

on Fletchers there seems to always be a crack in the ice quite long running along the shore there. Normally there is water getting up through it there and some slush as a result from snow on the surface. This always makes me knid of antsy to cross this area but we never have a problem with it. We of coarse check it carefully before just venturing across, but it still makes me nervous. Its always there too in that general location. Anyone know what would cause this? Im assuming a stress relief crack from the shape of the lake causes it but I dont really know.

[ifish4eyes]

A couple things I read were, water still evaporates in winter, also its still draining from its outlet with less water coming in from the inlet ( lack of rain fall ). This causes the ice to settle all winter, thus causing the ice to fall and crack ( that's the boom you here on the ice ). Also have you ever been in a area of many fisherman of not so thick of ice and water is coming up through the hole, they are weighing down the ice? I don't know how dangerous that is, but I figure its time to move.:lol: :lol:

[lmoore]

Yes ice with 6" of snow on it will not make much ice even in 15deg weather. Put a thermometer under 6" of snow in 15degs and it will read 26-29deg. happens all the time with the term out the door of the tent when it snows. The biggest problem I see on the ice is when it is new ice, guys check the ice its 4-6 inches and off they go and don't check again for along distance. Watch 2 guys 2yrs ago walk out on a snow covered patch and and went to spud their holes well the spud went thru 1st hit and they scattered and then fished they on the edge of the snow for 1/2hr then got up and started walking across the ice and right onto snow again without checking it crazy I tell ya. I never saw them fall thru but they werent far from it. Can't wait for ice to go out. Thinking tomro somewhere.

ps for the lakes that don't freeze all the way across when the wind blows the water level rises on the one side of the lake and if it is half covered with ice the water will rise above the ice. Alot of the booms you here on the lake is the ice making and expanding so it cracks when there is no place for the ice to expand. That is music to my ears. Love to hear the ice howling.

[Ralph Smith]

on Fletchers there seems to always be a crack in the ice quite long running along the shore there. Normally there is water getting up through it there and some slush as a result from snow on the surface. This always makes me knid of antsy to cross this area but we never have a problem with it. We of coarse check it carefully before just venturing across, but it still makes me nervous. Its always there too in that general location. Anyone know what would cause this? Im assuming a stress relief crack from the shape of the lake causes it but I dont really know.

I'd have to say the shoreline crack is due to fletchers being a resevoir with changing waterlevels, thus causing it to never stay tight to shore all the time. I know on the bay the ice when forming cracks and breaking off isn't due to the wind blowing the ice, but blowing the water either out from under ice thus causing the weight to crack off a a weak point, or forcing water under and lifting ice to break it off. Thats what the pressure is forming the pressure cracks. The cracks themselves are fine, just a seperation in which could be even 2' thick ice. I remember once setting up off state park with shanty on angle right over crack that was about 10" wide and fishing through it so we didn't have to hand auger through 1 1/2 foot thick ice on either side. Wind was blowing in of course. Its nice to pick out an object on bottom or put something there to watch also, since if the ice moves far from you, you may not notice, but the bottom don't move and if the object is going in a direction, time to go!!:SHOCKED:

[Ed Michrina]

any vehicle on the ice will weigh down the ice, that said you want to keep your speed down. Walking speed is good. two reasons. a fast moving vehicle can cause a under water wave in front of the veh. this can push up the ice and crack it. ice gets it strength by floating on water. its week when pushed from bottom up. Second If your traveling fast there is a good chance you will drive way out on thin ice, slow down and go through. Its far better to drop a front wheel through or drop the whole machine in, next to ice you can get out and stand on.. In a new area its still a good idea to have a buddy walk and spud in front of the atv. take turns. The atv is doing all the work pulling equipment so even if its a mile walk it's not exhausting.

Those new LED lights are bad for judging ice at dark. They light great but it lacks depth perception and doesn't' show shades of ice color. A regular light is far better.

Its not a bad idea to walk with a long rope tied to the front person dragging on the ice. It makes it easy for others to pull you out. you can also attach one to your atv and drag it.

you will see snow patches on the ice. these are to be avoided or checked carefully. the ice can be a foot thick and 2" under the snow.

pressure cracks open up, sometimes a few feet and freeze over only a few inches , also gas pockets will freeze and open up at times in the winter esp. in the cold cold times. These will be holes as large as a room in your house. both reasons to spud.

I to carry flares on my person. I also keep my cell phone in a zip lock bag. you can talk through it and call from inside the water if needed. if nothing else you will drop your cell in a drilled hole. it will float and save you phone. A little ball compass will save the day in a snow squall. GPS will work but batteries can get cold and die. When on site set up . point your spud the way you want to walk back, this way you can take a compass reading the way the spud is pointing.

Also put a pair of gloves in a zip lock bag. even if you don't fall through and your gloves get wet IE bottom of the shanty or fall into the hole. It can be very dangerous to drive 3 miles back home with wet gloves.

A spud will go through 3" of ice with one hit. that is why you use it with a hard hit. I'm not a big fan of the straps tied to the wrist. yes is may save your spud but its a heavy item to keep above water and hard to get off your wrist with a wet glove.

Ice spikes worn around you neck are necessary. They can be made by cutting an old hammer handle in half, pound a heavy nail in the end and tie a thin line between the two grind off the head of the nail to a point . the line should be easy to break. like phone line. This way you can keep them short and out of the way but still be able to break them and use them. Wood floats and can be thrown to someone already in the ice. How to use. you hit the ice edge, get a grip with the spikes and attempt to float your body. Kick like your swimming as you attempt to pull your self on to the ice. keep using them or roll until you know the ice is thick enough to stand on. No spikes and no one around --can't get out.. get your self as far out of the water as possible. At this point you will be exhausted and would be close to going under. Keep your body, coat , arms , gloves and hood on the ice. it will freeze to the ice and keep you breathing air. There is a chance if someone finds you, They will heat you up in the hospital and you'll live to fish another day.

life jacket are good. They can be worn under your coat. don't use the big red ones. these could hinder you getting out of the ice the regular vest types will keep you warm in and out of the water and wont' bulk you up.

If you or your buddy go through, something like a pressure crack find good ice quick. set up your shanty and start the heater. Most ice fisherman wear two layer of clothing the wet person strips down and the dry person gives the warmest layer to the buddy. You'll be fine in the shanty with long-under ware with a heater. Hang the wet clothing to dry and unzip or ventilate so the steam will exit. A few hrs and you'll be dry enough to fish or head home.

sorry about the long post .. trust me I could go on and on when it comes to ice safety. all of the ideas have been unfortunately used and works. Be safe and enjoy the ice.

[fishcrazy]

Ed that was a heck of a great post there. Lot of useful information in there for everyone. Thanks for taking the time to make such a thorough post. You may have saved a life of two there.