Arrow flight: Broadheads v target points

[Drop Tine]

I missed 3 does last night. :rant: All were at 35-40 yards. Shooting at a target all summer, I have been sticking them in a paper plate at 40 yards about 80% of the time. I never practice with broadheads (I use mechanical) because I don't want to dull them. I'm wondering if both are the same weight, will the mechanical broadheads shoot differently that target points? Otherwise, I can't explain the misses.

[chris_kreiner]

Doe Fever you are probably center shooting the deer instead of concentrating on a particular spot on the deer. Don't rush the shot. Also hitting a paper plate at 40 yrds is ok however you should try to tighten up your groups to more the size of a softball at that distance. I have heard the mechnicals fly like field tips however I would still take at least one broadhead and shoot it for practice. I shoot fixed blade thunderheads and they do shoot different than my field tips. I was hitting low and right with these broadheads but dead on with my field tips. I had to resight my bow for these broadheads and now they are dead on I have not missed a deer yet this year. I shot a small 10 opening day and a young doe that someone else wounded yesterday. So the thing here that I would stress most is practice, practice, practice. I shoot my bow so much that all my shots come natural I almost don't even need to use my pins cause I practice so much everything just flows.

[GVDocHoliday]

40 yards, 80% of your shots in a paper plate is nothing to sneeze at...You just simply missed because you're way outside your effective range. The distance that you can hit maybe 80% of your shots at a baseball sized target is your max distance...because that'll open up on a live animal.

Look at it this way though...you got three dull mechanical heads now to practice with.

[NorthJeff]

Although most fly exactly like field points, some mechanicals will fly differently...maybe 10-20%, I'd always use one for practice and keep it for future practice sessions during the year, or next year. It's not a 100% given they fly the same, especially with fast bows and light arrows.

[lumpy]

sorry about this but this is a rant I always have.

Always , always take one of the braodheads you plan to use, I don't care if it is mechanical or fixed blade and use it as a target arrow. I don't care what anyone says, it will always fly a bit different than your field tips.

I think that all the $ one spends on hunting why leave this one little bit to "chance". If they do fly the same as your field tip then you are very lucky to have a properly tuned bow(most guys don't). Properly tuned bows will throw most broadheads within inches of field points.

At least you will have the knowledge that you are tuned in with your choice of weapons.

One does not change loads or ammunition with a gun without fine tuning it so why would a bow be any different.

You (along with others) spend a ton of time and $ so make sure you are hitting the mark.

Off the soapbox, sorry to hear about the misfortune, one learns from mistakes and the wise hunter corrects them so not to repeat them. Good luck in the field

Lumpy

[2PawsRiver]

I know most may disagree, but your first problem is you shouldn't be shooting deer at 35 and 40 yards. 34 years of bow seasons and I have taken deer every year at less then 20 yards.

2ndly, 80 percent during target practice is not near enough.

The question is not just can you hit a target at 40 yards, but what is going to happen in the time your arrow leaves the bow and reaches it's mark at 40 yards.

20 yards is a good distance. Truthfully if you want to shoot deer at 35 and 40 yards, wait till gun season;)

[outdoor addict]

Always practice with broad heads before hunting. Not just one time either. You can put in a excellent shot with field tips but almost all broad heads will fly a little different. I mess with some buddys of mine saying that I could shoot a deer at 55 yards. And on the target could keep a 6 or 7 inch group with my field tips. But with broad heads its more like an 11 or 12 inch group. Even with being pretty consistant at that range I still look for shots around 20 to 25 yards, 35 yards being the max to take a shot. So take some shots with your broad heads and you might be suprised at the difference. Good luck and don't get discouraged a little more practice with your broad heads and you might be eating some tasty venison.

[William H Bonney]

I threw all my field points away,, I don't even bother. I only practice with arrow and broadheads I'll be shooting in the field. I was at a buddies house last weekend,, he was practicing at 40yrds,, all I can say is OMG:yikes: ,, that is a LOOOOONG ways. He was hitting the vitals with almost every shot, I was impressed. Personally, I know I can't do it,, so I don't even try "anymore"( I did once, and lost a couple of garage windows). Still finding schards of glass in there. BTW, does anyone have any old windows their trying to get rid of?:lol: (seriously)

[Backwoods-Savage]

One point nobody has yet made is the question: Have you practiced since season began? I've seen guys fall into this easy trap, but it is better if you practice some at least every other day.

Yes, every time I go out I shoot at least one arrow and also many times before leaving a stand I will shoot one, but that is not like shooting several times to keep those muscles tuned to shooting. Perhaps that is one of the problems.

[SHANK]

I too notice a big difference in accuracy when shooting field points as opposed to broadheads. They just fly differently. I use fieldpoints to "practice shooting" and broadheads to "practice accuracy". I don't pull the old broadheads out 'till the season is about to start. Only hunt with unused broadheads to keep them razor sharp.

One question for you...do you "index" your broadheads to your fletching or vanes? In other words, do you line up the blades with your fletching? If you don't, both broadhead and fletching will be competing to steer the arrow.

[2PawsRiver]

I have been using mechanicals since 1992, however when I shot fixed blades I indexed my arrows, I also shot large fletchings. The only difference I had in arrow flight was they would group 4-6 inches lower then a field tip with smaller fletchings.

Just my opinion, if your getting left to right variances, more then likly it is a tuning issue. Broadheads have a larger surface area and bad tuning will be more evident with them.

[skipper34]

Sorry, but I have to agree that 40 yards in a rediculous range in a hunting situation. My advice is to narrow your shooting range to a more manageable distance, probably 25 yards tops. Too much can happen when shooting at a live animal at that distance. When and only when you can group ALL of your arrows in a 3 or 4 inch circle at 25 yds are you ready to shoot at a deer.

[Joe Archer]

.... your first problem is you shouldn't be shooting deer at 35 and 40 yards....
20 yards is a good distance. Truthfully if you want to shoot deer at 35 and 40 yards, wait till gun season;)

That about sums it up. It is the proverbial statement; "bow hunting isn't about how far you can shoot it is about how close you can get". I have never taken a deer over 20 yards. For fun in the back yard I will hit a plate at 60 yards 80% of the time with a broadhead.

And YES.... always test the type of blade you will hunt with!

<----<<<

[Thunderhead]

You just simply missed because you're way outside your effective range. The distance that you can hit maybe 80% of your shots at a baseball sized target is your max distance

Look at it this way though...you got three dull mechanical heads now to practice with.

Bingo. On both accounts.

[NorthJeff]

It always cracks me up when I see guys saying 40 yards is a terrible shot, when there are plenty of guys more proficient at 50, than most at 20, it's all relative. No different than driving a car, for example my wife in here little mini-van in the snow is probably less safe driving 50 mph, than me in my 4x4 with truck with snow tires driving 60...it's all relative. Keep in mind that a deer is MUCH more likely to jump the string between 10 and 30 yards...before that it's too close to typically move out of the way of the arrow, after 30 the noise doesn't startle them as much. No different than you going around a corner and someone saying "boo" 2' away and you jump. They do that at 20' and you won't jump because although you hear the noise, it doesn't startle you. I would challenge that if you don't know how proficient you are at 20 yards compared to someone else at 40 yards, you really shouldn't have much to say in the matter.

Show me a guy that only ever shoots 20 yards for practice....and I'll show you a guy that isn't nearly the best he can be, not even close. Again though, along the thought of the thread....ALWAYS shoot with any type of broadheads you are going to hunt with, mechanical or not (although mechanicals at least 80% of the time will hit EXACTLY where your field points do).

[Drop Tine]

I know most may disagree, but your first problem is you shouldn't be shooting deer at 35 and 40 yards.
yeah, i think you're right. i guess i just got caught up in the fact that I can target shoot fine at 40 yrds, but the real live deer hunting does not translate. I'll just be more patient next time.

[skipper34]

Sorry to disagree here Jeff, but I still maintain that no matter how good you are at 40 yards with a SHORT RANGE WEAPON such as a bow, I don't care how fast the bow is, taking these shots at live animals is a very low percentage shot IN MY OPINION. Like I said, too much can happen while the arrow is in flight. It has little to do with jumping the string. The wind can blow an arrow off target at that range, the deer only has to take a half-step while in flight and the arrow is no longer on target. Every year I hear of those who take these long shots at deer and end up wounding the animal with a poor hit. Like Joe Archer stated, this is not how far you can shoot, but how close you can get.

[lumpy]

I really don't think that 40 and in yardage is a problem if one is schooled in that thought. We practice all the way out to 40 all the time. and yes I do this with my broadhead. bottom line is most shots that are presented are in the 15-25 yard range. that just means that if you are schooled out to 40 yards and are confident then the choice is yours. I have taken deer all the way out to 38 yards but only when the situation was waranted, clear shot, no wind, broadside, confident.
Know your limits and play within them. Just because the speed limit is 70 does not mean in some conditions it warants the speed.

[2PawsRiver]

yeah, i think you're right. i guess i just got caught up in the fact that I can target shoot fine at 40 yrds, but the real live deer hunting does not translate. I'll just be more patient next time.

I think it's a wise decision. You may be better then me, but even to this day when a deer comes in I have to take a minute to settle the heart down, calm the nerves and get ready to do something that has some serious consequences.............trying to kill a deer as quick and effeciently as possible.

Also during target practice your generally warm, have been moving around and have been shooting for a bit.

Sitting in the stand for a couple hours, add in some cold weather, the excitement of the hunt, trying to get ready for a shot without spooking your deer, drawing as quietly as possible..........so on and so on.......you get my point.:)

It is a good idea to practice out to 40 and 50 yards......the increased distance will amplify any technique flaws.

I am generally 25 feet up in a tree and 20 yards has always been a really good distance for me. It presents a good angle and will usually put my arrow in midway up the ribcage and out low on the other side. Gets me a double lung with pretty quick blood for good tracking if necessary.


Good luck with your hunt............and remember a miss is always better then a bad hit;)

[aquanator]

sorry about this but this is a rant I always have.

Always , always take one of the braodheads you plan to use, I don't care if it is mechanical or fixed blade and use it as a target arrow. I don't care what anyone says, it will always fly a bit different than your field tips.

I think that all the $ one spends on hunting why leave this one little bit to "chance". If they do fly the same as your field tip then you are very lucky to have a properly tuned bow(most guys don't). Properly tuned bows will throw most broadheads within inches of field points.

At least you will have the knowledge that you are tuned in with your choice of weapons.

One does not change loads or ammunition with a gun without fine tuning it so why would a bow be any different.

You (along with others) spend a ton of time and $ so make sure you are hitting the mark.

Off the soapbox, sorry to hear about the misfortune, one learns from mistakes and the wise hunter corrects them so not to repeat them. Good luck in the field

Lumpy

Gotta agree. I always dedicate a few broadheads (I shoot mechanicals too) just to make sure they truly fly the same as my field points. And, you're shooting quite a ways. Maybe try shooting only 25 yards, where you can hit 100% of the time when practicing.

[Joe Archer]

Didn't anyone else see the video of the Olympic gold medal archer who went hunting for the first time? If not to make a long story short, he completely missed a broad side deer at 20 yards.
The bottom line is "Sheet happens"... and it has a greater liklihood of happening when you increase distance. All of us have a better chance of a humane kill at 20 yards than we do at 40.
In any case, the original poster of this thread, as has been stated repeatedly was most likely a tad over his range.

<----<<<

[willy05]

I feel good out to about 25-30 yds, with practice and alot of it if you can group your arrows ina 6 inch circle you can take deer out to 50 or even further. I know all my practice is from 0 to 25 yds so that is my comfort zone. If we lived out west in the plains no one would even second guess taking a 40 yard shot. The archers out west must be better shots than us.

[eddiejohn4]

I have never had a problem with mechanicals hitting their target. But I also shoot a few before going out to hunt. I practice with field points and just before season I shoot some mechs.

I like to have as tight a grouping as I can, at forty yards you should still be packing them in there next to each other.

[Chuck]

A general rule for finding your limit is to shoot well out past that yardage. In other words if you want to make 40 yard shots practice at 50. When you group well at 50 then you will know you can make 40 yard shots. Then 40 would be your limit.

I practice out to 60 yards. I can keep them in a 5" circle at this yardage with broadheads. When you practice at longer yardages you perfect your form. It also makes a 40 yard shot seem easy.

50 yards is my limit but everything would have to be perfect for me to take this shot. Even at 40 yards everything would have to be perfect. There would have to be very light wind, the deer would have to have its head down and feeding and quarting slightly away. So far my farthest shot has been 33 yards. It was right at the crease of the shoulder, a perfect double lunger.

A deer can dodge an arrow at any yardage and from any bow out there. When I first started I shot at a doe from 15 yards and she was high strung and tense. She was looking right at me. When the arrow started to fly she layed down flat on the ground and then jumped up and took off. The arrow went right over and missed completely. I have also seen video of deer and elk that have turned completely around and out of the way of arrow with a comlete miss being made.

Always practice with what your going to hunt with, the clothes your going to wear, and in the weather conditions you will be hunting in. Also practice during season as much as you can. Even if its only a 10 yard shot in the house.

[tommy-n]

Why do some people always have to judge other people:mad: Some guys are more than capable of making 40 and 50yd shots all day long. Everyone should know there comfort range however. Just because some guys are confident in 20yd shots or closer does not apply to everyone and is only your opinion.My comfort range is 30yds with a broadside shot only.

[TnRidge]

Archery is seeing how far away you can hit your intended target , Bowhunting is seeing how close you can get to it .:)
A good bowhunter will put themselves in a position to take deer within their effective range . That range may vary for different hunters , but effective range means placing 100% of your broadhead tipped arrows within the kill zone .
Practice with what you are going to shoot . If you are shooting mechanicals , tie them shut with dental floss .
Also practice bending at the waist from a treestand , so you keep the same anchor point when shooting downward . Practice at unknown distances and various angles , shooting one arrow groups .

[Ack]

While most guys are hung up on the "distance" thing, I am going to bring up the point that it sounds like your bow is not completely tuned for your broadheads. Many guys think that they can shoot field points all summer long, and then once hunting season comes that they can just slap a mechanical head on that claims to "fly like a field point" and everything will be good to go......wrong.

Always shoot your broadheads whether they are mechanical or fixed. On mechanicals I do the same as TnRidge...tie them closed with dental floss. If you are not getting the same point of impact as your field points your bow needs a little tweaking...not just your sight. Small adjustments to your rest and nocking point will bring the broadheads POI to the same as the field points, you just have to take the time to do it...it's called fine tuning.

[eddiejohn4]

I could not agree more Ack. know your weapon ,and where its poi is with evey thing you shoot.:) and fine tune untill its right.

[FullQuiver]

[quote=2PawsRiver]I know most may disagree, but your first problem is you shouldn't be shooting deer at 35 and 40 yards. 34 years of bow seasons and I have taken deer every year at less then 20 yards.
:yeahthat:

I don't care how well you shoot on paper...... Shooting that far at a living animal is just plain unwise. Even with the fastest bows there is an awful lot of flight time going on there, and too much can happen. As hunter's we owe it to the game we pursue not just to take high percentage shots we must not shoot unless we are sure.

Also you must always shoot your broadheads to see how they shoot vs. your field points...

[deerslayer#1]

It's a good thing most of you grew up in Michigan hunting whitetails with a bow, not somewhere out west. I can assure you 20 yard shots are not very common in the west. Try sitting in a tree stand waiting for a deer with no bait pile, or crop, waiting for the 20 yard shot. Sure it's a different style of hunting than we have in Michigan, but your new updated archery equipment is capable of much longer shots than 20 yards. If your skill puts you at 20 yards, then thats where you should hunt. If you have the skills for 50 yard shots, then do it. I've been shooting archery for a long time, and belonged to several well know clubs in the U.S., as well as placed in severel state shoots in a couple different states. I'm telling you the shoots Iv'e been to in Mi. are not much of a challenge, because it seems most targets are between 15-30 yards. In the west most targets are double the distance than most are here, some going out to 80-90 yards. (I'm not saying shoot deer at that distance) With any of the newer archery equipment available today, your first pin goes to about 30 yards. Thats with 60 pound bows, not the old 80-90 pound Martin Onza's, or Mega Bows. (any one remember those) Stretch those targets out and practice at a lot more than 25 yards, you will soon see with some practice and the right conditions you can take deer at much farther distance than 20 yards.
Sure things can happen, but we all know they happen at 20 yards too. I know for a fact an arrow with a spitfire will pass through Blacktail, and Mule deer larger than most whitetail at 60 yards. Joe Archer is right, " its about how close you can get". I say its about making the shot when you are as close as you can get! What every "YOUR" distance is.

[Ack]

It's a good thing most of you grew up in Michigan hunting whitetails with a bow, not somewhere out west. I can assure you 20 yard shots are not very common in the west. Try sitting in a tree stand waiting for a deer with no bait pile, or crop, waiting for the 20 yard shot. Sure it's a different style of hunting than we have in Michigan, but your new updated archery equipment is capable of much longer shots than 20 yards. If your skill puts you at 20 yards, then thats where you should hunt. If you have the skills for 50 yard shots, then do it. I've been shooting archery for a long time, and belonged to several well know clubs in the U.S., as well as placed in severel state shoots in a couple different states. I'm telling you the shoots Iv'e been to in Mi. are not much of a challenge, because it seems most targets are between 15-30 yards. In the west most targets are double the distance than most are here, some going out to 80-90 yards. (I'm not saying shoot deer at that distance) With any of the newer archery equipment available today, your first pin goes to about 30 yards. Thats with 60 pound bows, not the old 80-90 pound Martin Onza's, or Mega Bows. (any one remember those) Stretch those targets out and practice at a lot more than 25 yards, you will soon see with some practice and the right conditions you can take deer at much farther distance than 20 yards.
Sure things can happen, but we all know they happen at 20 yards too. I know for a fact an arrow with a spitfire will pass through Blacktail, and Mule deer larger than most whitetail at 60 yards. Joe Archer is right, " its about how close you can get". I say its about making the shot when you are as close as you can get! What every "YOUR" distance is.

Very well said Deerslayer! ;)

[DavidH]

Hi folks. I almost never post but read a lot here. Just wanted to help ram home a couple of points...
If you are hitting 80% at 40 yards in a pie-plate size target then with no insult intended, you are not ready to shoot a deer at 40 yards. 20% of the time you are not hitting. 40 yards is too easy to get good at. 100% in 40 and that should be your farthest pin in Michigan.
I am a California native now living in Michigan and when I first moved east it was to Tennessee and my fellow volunteer firefighters down there thought I was BS'ing them our first archery practice together. My old Hoyt 80# compound was set for 20, 40 and 60 yards for blacktail back home. I thought a 20 yard shot was a gimme. Moving to Tennessee taught me a new respect for archery in heavy woods and you don't want to take a long shot unless you absolutely know your lane is clear of little branches and twigs etc. A 20 or 30 yard shot in Tennessee and Michigan is a very good opportunity and one you will get very often if you are managing yourself and your hunt well. I get plenty of 10 and 15 yard shots from my tree stand in Tennessee every Thanksgiving when I go back down to hunt with my friends. Bout' the same here too.
Gotta' repeat what a lot of others are saying too. ALWAYS sacrifice at least one of your expandables or broadheads for target practice. I always buy an extra pack knowing I will sacrifice them to the target gods so I know what my arrows are going to do in a controlled environment.
I still can't get used to you Michigan guys using bait though... Kills me every time.:)
Thanks for all the great posts. This is a excellent web-site.
David.

[walleyechaser]

I have to disagree!
No offense to anyone and no bashing intended but 80 percent accuracy on a pie plate size target is not accurate at all.
If my 40 some years of hunting has taught me anything at all its that there's no such thing as too accurate.
I certainly subscibe to practicing at distances double your hunting shots since it will greatly improve your groupings at shorter hunting distances. But to be satisfied with 80 percent accuracy on a pie plate size target is ludicrous.
I personally find my shooting acceptable with broadheads when I'm consistently placing my shots in a 3 - 4 inch circle.(Remember the old saying, "Aim small, miss small"!) Granted, there'll be an occasional stray but if we shoot enough, we know what caused it. If you limit your shots to the distance at which you're consistently placing your arrow in a baseball size target then you should have no problems.
Purchasing an extra pack of broadheads to practice with is a small price to pay when we consider the price of an ill-placed shot on a whitetail.
Can todays bows kill at 40 and 50 yards? Absolutely and out West its done as regularly as 20 yard shots are made in Michigan but the terrain and habitat is completely different not to mention that those hunters probably shoot more arrows at 50 and 60 yards during a practice session than the average Midwest bowhunter shoots at 30 yards.
I'd also venture to say that most of us would be sorely embarrased if we shot against a few Western bow hunters.
IMO there's no such thing as too much practice and Good Enough is hardly ever good enough.

[NorthJeff]

"No offense to anyone and no bashing intended but 80 percent accuracy on a pie plate size target is not accurate at all."

I couldn't agree more...that's to me a pretty poor level of shooting to be (again, nothing personal at all!!) to be taking to the field. I say 100% on a pie plate, but for me personally it's got to be at least a 3-4" group.

"It's a good thing most of you grew up in Michigan hunting whitetails with a bow, not somewhere out west. I can assure you 20 yard shots are not very common in the west. Try sitting in a tree stand waiting for a deer with no bait pile, or crop, waiting for the 20 yard shot. Sure it's a different style of hunting than we have in Michigan, but your new updated archery equipment is capable of much longer shots than 20 yards. If your skill puts you at 20 yards, then thats where you should hunt. If you have the skills for 50 yard shots, then do it. I've been shooting archery for a long time, and belonged to several well know clubs in the U.S., as well as placed in severel state shoots in a couple different states. I'm telling you the shoots Iv'e been to in Mi. are not much of a challenge, because it seems most targets are between 15-30 yards. In the west most targets are double the distance than most are here, some going out to 80-90 yards. (I'm not saying shoot deer at that distance) With any of the newer archery equipment available today, your first pin goes to about 30 yards. Thats with 60 pound bows, not the old 80-90 pound Martin Onza's, or Mega Bows. (any one remember those) Stretch those targets out and practice at a lot more than 25 yards, you will soon see with some practice and the right conditions you can take deer at much farther distance than 20 yards.
Sure things can happen, but we all know they happen at 20 yards too. I know for a fact an arrow with a spitfire will pass through Blacktail, and Mule deer larger than most whitetail at 60 yards. Joe Archer is right, " its about how close you can get". I say its about making the shot when you are as close as you can get! What every "YOUR" distance is."

Great post!!

[2PawsRiver]

"It's a good thing most of you grew up in Michigan hunting whitetails with a bow, not somewhere out west. I can assure you 20 yard shots are not very common in the west. Try sitting in a tree stand waiting for a deer with no bait pile, or crop, waiting for the 20 yard shot.

We can agree on that........am glad I grew up in Michigan hunting whitetails.:), though I have taken them in CA, GA, OK and IN, but prefer to hunt Michigan.

I would also agree that 20 yard shots are not commom........but are achieved with patience, planning and a degree of luck.;) and I don't hunt over bait or crops..........that would be a whole different discussion;)

The truth is with the advances in archery, the easy part of bowhunting is arrow placement. When I started I used a Bear Recurve I bought at a garage sale for 15 dollars and hunted off the ground and took deer. Hunted with a recurve until the early 80s....without sights until the mid 80s, without high perf cams until the early 90's.........mid 90's found myself hunting with an over 1000 dollar rig, still taking 20 yard shots............toned things back down to a moderate speed, easy shooting, forgiving Hoyt for the past 6 years and honestly don't have to pull it back beforfe opening day..........but I do.:) In the early days I spent more time shooting then scouting.

With todays equipment, accuracy to 50 yards is relativly easy to achieve, but target shooting and hunting are only cousins, in the same family but not directly realted. Did the IBO thing for a few years, shot in the world championship in 1997, am confident that I can hit deer 100 percent at 50 yards, but would never take a 50 yard shot.

Somebody mentioned those out west archers being better shots..........check your IBO standing in the various classes and I think you will find Michigan is well represented, as is the Northeast.:D

While we disagree, I do want to make it very clear that I respect those opinions different then mine and only wish you success this deer season..............and hope you have many 20 yard shots.:)

[NorthJeff]

"With todays equipment, accuracy to 50 yards is relativly easy to achieve, but target shooting and hunting are only cousins"

Here are some thoughts that most fail to understand about shooting long distance in hunting relative to 3D tournaments and such.

1. Pressure. There is never more pressure to make a shot when you have a crowd of people around you hoping you miss. Believe me, I've actually made shots that I knew a national tournament was on the line, simply with that 1 shot including hundreds, even a couple thousand dollars or more. There is nothing like that pressure, and I have not experienced that same level of intensity with any mature buck. Now after the shot...that's a different story. The rush of adrenilen following a shot at a mature buck is 2nd to none, but I'll take the relaxation of a hunting shot over a tournament pressure shot anyday.

2. The exact distance to the target. Part of the anxiety of the shot in a 3D tournament is you do not know the yardage. You can't pace it off, think about how far a certain tree is for 2 hours, or certainly use a laser range finder, and it's very well evident within your brain that if you are shooting at a 50 yard target and are off by 5 yards...that's typically a clean miss by 8 inches or more. Shoot at a smaller target and you can have a clean miss by being off by only 3 yards, let alone 4 or 5.

In hunting that anxiety is thrown out the window. No competent long-distance hunter would be without his laser rangefinder, or at the very least paced-off reference points. Is it easier to make a 45 yard shot on an animal when you know the distance to within a yard?...you betcha!

Knowing the distance and a more relaxing setting are two reasons those long shots are much easier on animals, than on a foam target. We aren't talking a second longer, two seconds, etc., we are talking a fraction of a second longer for impact on an animal that is less likely to jump the string at a longer distance, than short. All things being equal, my money is on the competent archer at 40 yards, over the above average hunter at 25, with of course sharp broadheads that have been sited in and tested....mechanicals or not!

[TnRidge]

Shooting stationary deer targets in lightweight clothing using perfect stance on a 3-D course is a different ballgame than shooting at deer from a treestand wearing heavy clothing .
I have taken deer out to 40 yards ,but 90% of my shots are less than 30 yards .
I did a poll on this site a while back on the average kill distance . It was 17 yards !
Most successfull bowhunters use their bowhunting and scouting skills to put them in postition to take shots within their 100% effective range .

[fasthunter]

I practice all the way out to 60 yards with broadheads and I feel very comfortable shooting at 40 yards if I know the distance. For me though 30 yards is the max for my comfortable shooting zone shooting at a live deer, because of the adrenaline messing up my shot a little sometimes. I seriously can't judge a guy for being very talented and being able to shoot a deer at long ranges either. I have a friend that's a very, very talented archer and takes deer routinely at distances of 40 plus yards. I know of a couple deer off hand that he's taken at 45 or 50 yards and I know of a bear he's taken a over 50 yards. It's not the shot for most hunters including me, but if you are really good and comfortable with it and shoot year round you know you're limits. Just make sure you are well within them. That's why I won't shoot over 30.

[tree dweller]

I know most may disagree, but your first problem is you shouldn't be shooting deer at 35 and 40 yards. 34 years of bow seasons and I have taken deer every year at less then 20 yards.

No disagreement here. Practice more and wait for a better shot.

[Chasin]

I truley dont understand you guys. what makes a 40 yard shot out west ok but a 40yd here gets a person slammed?? I've been bow hunting for a long time but so have many on this site. I dont want to even tell you guys how far I've shot deer with my bow.... I will tell you I can hit my Glendale buck in the ribs all day long at 70 yards.

Its all about what you can do and knowing your yardage. To pigeonhole any bow hunter into a set yardage instead of skill level is very narrow minded indeed.

Here is one I took this year at 45 yards.. It was in North Dakota though so hopefully it was far enough west to be ok....
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/3-WEB.JPG

I did take a buck at 38yds here in Michigan this year too. If I get the oppertunity to take another in MI or OH at ranges of 40+ yards I will take those shots as well.

Just because some of you guys have confidance levels of 25 yards dosent mean you can assume everyone else should use your level.

What tics me off most are all the guys saying I'm not a "GOOD" bowhunter because I didnt let them get to within that magical 20 yards.

I'll put my bowhunting abilities up against anyone...

Sorry but this thread just ruffled my feathers alittle.

[Ack]

Here is one I took this year at 45 yards.. It was in North Dakota though so hopefully it was far enough west to be ok....
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/3-WEB.JPG


Nice buck Chasin, way to put the smackdown on him!

[fasthunter]

I truley dont understand you guys. what makes a 40 yard shot out west ok but a 40yd here gets a person slammed?? I've been bow hunting for a long time but so have many on this site. I dont want to even tell you guys how far I've shot deer with my bow.... I will tell you I can hit my Glendale buck in the ribs all day long at 70 yards.

Its all about what you can do and knowing your yardage. To pigeonhole any bow hunter into a set yardage instead of skill level is very narrow minded indeed.

Here is one I took this year at 45 yards.. It was in North Dakota though so hopefully it was far enough west to be ok....
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/3-WEB.JPG

I did take a buck at 38yds here in Michigan this year too. If I get the oppertunity to take another in MI or OH at ranges of 40+ yards I will take those shots as well.

Just because some of you guys have confidance levels of 25 yards dosent mean you can assume everyone else should use your level.

What tics me off most are all the guys saying I'm not a "GOOD" bowhunter because I didnt let them get to within that magical 20 yards.

I'll put my bowhunting abilities up against anyone...

Sorry but this thread just ruffled my feathers alittle.
Nice Deer!!

[2PawsRiver]

Is a very nice buck.

You either need to re-read the thread, or we just interpreted it differently.

I don't think anybody has slammed anybody or knocked anybody for taking long shots at deer.

I don't think anybody has said they stay with 20 yard shots because they feel they can only accurately shoot at that range.

I don't think anybody said anybody, including you, though I think this is your first post on this thread so I'm not sure what your point is....but none the less, nobody said anybody was a bad bowhunter because they don't wait for deer to get in the magical 20 yard range....I don't think anybody used the term magical:)

and lastly, nobody who supports the concept that a shot should take place at 20 yards said anything about it being OK out west.

What everybody agreed on though, was that every hunter should shoot their broadheads to make sure they fly right, and should practice and only shoot deer at the range they are accurate.

As for

I'll put my bowhunting abilities up against anyone...

it's still early in the season, don't wrench your arm out of place patting yourself on the back:D

[Ack]

Is a very nice buck.

You either need to re-read the thread, or we just interpreted it differently.

I don't think anybody has slammed anybody or knocked anybody for taking long shots at deer.

I don't think anybody has said they stay with 20 yard shots because they feel they can only accurately shoot at that range.


2Paws, how can you say that the guy wasn't slammed for taking the long shot....it seems that you were the first one to "slam" him by saying that "he" shouldn't be taking 35 to 40 yard shots in the first place.....sounds like a slam to me! For some odd reason I don't think this thread is going to last much longer....:rolleyes:

I know most may disagree, but your first problem is you shouldn't be shooting deer at 35 and 40 yards. 34 years of bow seasons and I have taken deer every year at less then 20 yards.

2ndly, 80 percent during target practice is not near enough.

The question is not just can you hit a target at 40 yards, but what is going to happen in the time your arrow leaves the bow and reaches it's mark at 40 yards.

20 yards is a good distance. Truthfully if you want to shoot deer at 35 and 40 yards, wait till gun season;)

[2PawsRiver]

You call that a slam.....you young guys are awful sensitive.:)

It wasn't a shot, it was three shots, at a distance he is 80 percent accurate at. I shared an opinion with him, and offered up my advice. He is free to take the advice, ignore it, heck he's free to tell me to pound sand.

He wasn't offended, nor did he feel slammed, at least I don't think so based on.

yeah, i think you're right. i guess i just got caught up in the fact that I can target shoot fine at 40 yrds, but the real live deer hunting does not translate. I'll just be more patient next time.


If instead he would have said he feels that he wants to take 40 and 50 yard shots, I would still have disagreed, but would have offered input to try and help make those shots more successful.

This thread should last just fine. I don't know why so many times just because opinions may differ, somebody throws in that a thread should be closed.........as I said in an earlier post in this thread, I disagree with long shots on deer with a bow, but respect that others think different.

Now take a minute and find an actual SLAM anywhere in this thread, where somebody says something derogatory. I have read it again and see nothing but shared opinions and advice............something we can all use.

[fasthunter]

Ok now everyone calm down. Disagreeing is good just keep in civil.:D BREATH!!!!! :)

[Chasin]

I don't care how well you shoot on paper...... Shooting that far at a living animal is just plain unwise. Even with the fastest bows there is an awful lot of flight time going on there, and too much can happen. As hunter's we owe it to the game we pursue not just to take high percentage shots we must not shoot unless we are sure.

I guess things like this is what I was referring to.

I know most may disagree, but your first problem is you shouldn't be shooting deer at 35 and 40 yards. 34 years of bow seasons and I have taken deer every year at less then 20 yards.

20 yards is a good distance. Truthfully if you want to shoot deer at 35 and 40 yards, wait till gun season;)

I'm not trying to state I'm any better than anyone else for taking a shot further than it seems many here wouldnt. But it doesent make me any worse either.
You state that in 34 years of bow hunting you have never taken a shot over 20 yrds. With your degree of experance your telling a less experanced hunter he shouldnt take a longer shot either.
Then state if someone wants to shoot one at 35 and 40 yards to wait till gun season.

Skipper 34
Sorry, but I have to agree that 40 yards in a rediculous range in a hunting situation.

Then Archer Joe say your 20yard and under shot should be a proverb???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2PawsRiver
.... your first problem is you shouldn't be shooting deer at 35 and 40 yards....
20 yards is a good distance. Truthfully if you want to shoot deer at 35 and 40 yards, wait till gun season


That about sums it up. It is the proverbial statement;

Give me a break...

Dont get me wrong 20 yards is a very good distance and I also strive to get as close for the shot as possible. But hunting doesent always work out that way. If I need meat in the freezer from a big fat doe, or the buck of a lifetime is standing 50 yards out with no chance of me getting closer I'm going to take the shot with the same degree of confidance at 50 yrds that I have at 15. :evil:

And everyone needs to pat themshelves on the back every once in awhile. If you dont who will?? :lol: :lol:



Everyone is right on the money with the recomendations to DropTine.

You gotta shoot with your broadheads during practice. Any high quality broadhead should fly just like your field tips whether fixed blades or expandables. If they dont it can only be two things, your bow is not tuned proberly or your arrows are not spined correctly. I've done alot of testing with different broadheads and shot with alot of guys. I have found that properly spined arrows are probably the biggest mistake hunters make with thier shooting equipment.

Once everything is tuned and shooting correctly PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Shoot 20 yards farther than you plan on taking your longest shot while hunting. you will be amazed at how far you can shoot acurately with practise. Shoot with someone else if possible. Competition always makes you a better shooter. When those does are standing in front of you next time at 35 yrds and you become proficent out to 50 that 35 yarder will seem like a chip shot. :D good luck and good hunting.

[skipper34]

Sorry to say it, but 50 yard shots are just irresponsible, I don't care how good you may think you are. Practice getting closer to the game, you already have your shooting down pat. This is why it is called hunting. You owe it to the game animal to close the distance. Sorry if I just don't agree with you on this. I guess I am from the old school where the hunt was more important than shooting skill at long ranges.

[walleyeman2006]

i know a lot of bow hunters and i know of only one whos proficient over 50 yards hes taken deer at 60 or more yards but this guy works at a bow shop and that kind of a discount makes it a little easier to keep up with the technology...after reading this post i went over 30 yards for the first time in a long time and found i was really safe out to 40 yards but most of my blinds only allow shots of 30 yards or less

[Eagle00708]

Be carfull, when you set a standard of "you should be able to shoot a 5" groupe at so many yards before you should hunt" Younger hunters cannot always do this but they should still be in the woods for the experience I do agree that if you are a seasoned hunter you should have enough practice in to hold a good groupe but telling your kid if he/she can't hold thier group then too bad dad goes without you, that isn't right ....a paper plate at 20 yards will kill a deer.

[Ninja]

Be carfull, when you set a standard of "you should be able to shoot a 5" groupe at so many yards before you should hunt" Younger hunters cannot always do this but they should still be in the woods for the experience I do agree that if you are a seasoned hunter you should have enough practice in to hold a good groupe but telling your kid if he/she can't hold thier group then too bad dad goes without you, that isn't right ....a paper plate at 20 yards will kill a deer.

Not with 20-30lbs in the front part of that plate. :sad:

[SPH]

A deers time to react to a 40 yard shot has always been my concern, not my ability to shoot that far. On a quiet morning I have found that alot of deer will react to the sound of my bow when I shoot and you can't prepare for that at 40-50yards.

[NorthJeff]

SPH, Look at it a few different ways...

First, if a deer DOES react at 40 yards, it won't be there when the arrow gets there, unlike a shot at 15 yards when you are more likely to hit the deer somewhere. I had a shot at a 25 yard deer in which the deer had enough time to turn a complete 180 and my shot aimed at the chest, hit the deer on the opposite side in the rear-end...a killing shot nonetheless and the deer only went 30 yards. If that deer was at 40...the deer would have been long gone.

2nd, a deer is reacting to the shot because they are startled. Think about it, when you round a corner and someone 5' away yells "boo" most people jump. But, round that corner and place the person 30' away and you just look at them like they are an idiot. Same with deer..they are reacting to the shot and are startled but make that noise double or triple the distance and they are less likely to "jump" the string. I strongly feel a deer is more likely to jump the string between 15 and 25 yards, than 35-50.

3rd, when shooting long distances, there are many archers more competent at 40 yards, than even above average archers at 25 yards. All things being equal, I'll take the great shot at 40...than the average shot at 25. So who is more irresponsible? the average guy shooting 25 yards, or the guy shooting at 40 that is much better at that distance than the avg. guy at 25?

In the end we here in MI just do not realize the capabilities of archery equipment. Lets face it, many, many archers are shooting 15-20 yards at a bait pile, or in heavy cover. You here guys say all the time, "I never shoot over 20 yards for practice"..what a crying shame! Anybody who has ever played a lick of organized sports knows that to be better...you have to play the best. That means you have to push yourself, improve yourself, and know your limitations. We here in MI just don't reach 1/2 our potential because typically we just don't need to but by doing that we do not realize how good we actually can be, and how capable our archery equipment actually is.

[2PawsRiver]

I may have missed it, but I don't see where anybody said only practice out to 20 yards...........and you can spin it however you like, but shooting outside of 20 yards is not necessary and shots or 30 and 40 yards is irresponsible in many opinions.......but everybody is entitled to disagree.:)

[deerslayer#1]

I may have missed it, but I don't see where anybody said only practice out to 20 yards...........and you can spin it however you like, but shooting outside of 20 yards is not necessary and shots or 30 and 40 yards is irresponsible in many opinions.......but everybody is entitled to disagree.:)

I'm not sure were I read this, but it said a deers reaction time was a tenth of a second. A bow would have to shoot around 500 fps to outspeed the deer at 20 yards. (maybe a math wiz could figure this out?).... Also, if what I have read on some of the polls at this site are correct, then most HUNTERS only shoot 20 yards or less at deer. Now my question is.........who is sticking all these deer with arrows and not recovering them?.......The majority that limit to 20 and under............or the seemingly few (by poll) that shoot farther? I wonder if someone could set this up by poll, as to how far a deer was shot/shot at by bow and not hit, or wounded and not recovered. I know its a touchy subject loosing deer but it happens, we all know it . We all may learn something from it. My money is one the majority coming up short handed by far. It might show a more clear meaning to irresponsible. Yes everyone is entitled to disagree....but set it up and be honest. I feel it might show that the few that shoot farther actually hit more, kill more and recover more, than the majority that think if they can hit a five gallon bucket at 15 yards then they are ready. And I'm not saying everybody that chooses to shoot under 20 thinks this way, but we all know at least a few that do.:coolgleam :coolgleam :coolgleam

[TnRidge]

This is the poll I did a while back on the average killing shot distance .It was 17 yards . I did a poll on another hunting site ,and the distance was also less than 20 yards . A loud bow and shooting at alarmed deer have more to do with deer ducking shots than speed or distance . I have had very few deer react to close shots when they were unaware of my presence while shooting a very quiet bow .

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140176&highlight=average+kill+shot+distance

[ERGOMAN]

Theres lots of guys on this board that have shot deer over 40 yds. They just dont feel like arguing with people that cant kill a deer past 20 yds. Get over yourself, your not in charge of what distance a person can or cant take a shot. This is not related to the original poster, more about the ego attitude it must take to feel that your able to tell others how accurate or inaccurate they are able to shoot. Try caribou or elk hunting, the guides wont be very happy about your 20 yd self imposed limit, if they will take you at all. :rolleyes:

[2PawsRiver]

people that cant kill a deer past 20 yds.

Must be a near sighted thing you long distance shooters have, can shoot deer at 40 yards but can't read a thread.;) The 20 yard shot is a choice, not a limitation.:)